Moles, a slow panic setting in
diggerdee zone 6 CT
2 years ago
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Barrheadlass
2 years agokitasei2
2 years agoRelated Discussions
collection of citrus trees and panic attacks
Comments (27)John, Don't worry about thinking your are being too assertive... no offense is taken. I'm just genuinely curious as to why the soft water is perceived as being so terrible. I often see many quite firm statements on a variety of topics (water, fertilizer, temperature, sunlight, methods for planting in ground, etc...) related home gardening. There is a sound horticultural basis behind many of these recommendations, but at the same time I see many firm recommendations that for most people likely make no difference one way or the other. I don't see the point of having this huge list of varying do's and don'ts if a large portion of the recommendations either are minimally helpful, or don't really have any impact. When I began growing container citrus several years ago, I started out all gung-ho trying to do everything under the sun that was recommended to make my trees happy especially in winter (grow lights, supplemental heating, boosting the humidity, etc...). The end result invariably was sickly looking trees. I've had much better luck not really doing too much and allowing the trees to acclimate gradually on their own to whatever their current environment happens to be. Getting back to the soft water question. I completely agree that too much sodium chloride will kill plants, especially citrus. I would also add that too much salt of any kind could kill your plants, of course the lethal concentrations will vary quite widely depending on the specific toxicities. An ion exchange water softener does not add sodium chloride to the water. The sodium chloride is just used to regenerate the ion exchange resin by saturating it with sodium ions. The softening process only replaces the magnesium and calcium ions with sodium. The primary anion before and after treatment should remain carbonate, no additional chloride is added. Since sodium carbonate is much more soluble in water than either magnesium or calcium carbonate, one could argue that it would be more difficult to build up high concentrations of it in the container. This is assuming that one flushes their container with excess water on a semi regular basis. Nevertheless, I doubt this aspect really makes much significant difference one way or the other if the container is being flushed with water periodically. While thinking about this whole issue, I also came across several research papers that investigate the effects of salinity on citrus. The primary toxic effects of "salinity" on citrus are increased osmotic stress and specific ion toxicities. Again, if one is flushing their container with water semi-regularly, osmotic stress should never become an issue, as the excess accumulated salts will be washed out regularly. With respect to ion toxicity, the general consensus seems to be that chloride is a more significant issue than sodium. However, the water softening process does not really add any chloride to the the treated water, therefore its concentration is no different than in the untreated water. The concentration of sodium carbonate in the "softened" water is also not really ever going to be that high (in the neighborhood of 200 ppm, if the input water is classified as very hard). I've seen a study (link below) that subjected citrus to salt (sodium chloride and/or calcium chloride) at concentrations up to 6000 ppm. Although the differences in response to the salt challenge were clearly noticeable among the tested cultivars, the most significantly damaged trees only showed a "slight marginal burn" on the leaves. So even assuming there was 200 ppm sodium chloride in the softened water, it would take several months of watering with no flushing of the soil to build up to these high salt concentrations where there are clearly visible toxicity effects. In summary, I do not see any scientific basis for why "softened" water should be perceived as so bad for citrus culture. At the same time, there is not much evidence that it has any significant benefits. In the absence of finding any direct studies investigating this question, I think the issue is largely irrelevant for container citrus culture. If a few basic care practices are observed (mainly not treating your soil as a black hole in which an infinite amount of fertilizer and soluble salts from the water supply can be allowed to accumulate), it shouldn't really matter. I will add one final caveat, if signs of salt toxicity do happen to appear irrespective of the water source, then one should absolutely start trying to isolate and correct the problem. John, I'm curious to know if you have any additional thoughts. In any case, cheers, and thanks for the discussion! -Scott PS Susan, my sincere apologies for taking your thread off on a little tangent. Here is a link that might be useful: Salt tolerance of some citrus...See MoreMoles are awake!!!!!!!
Comments (24)Hey There: I agree with everything Iron belly has said. Moles are Carnivorous and do not eat Mole bait, which is primarily grain based. Moles prefer earthworms and an occasional Grubs. I had my first Mole after 17 years last Summer. It took almost two Months to catch and kill it. I have two Mole traps. They were tripped several times, but never got the Mole. I would mash down the tunnels wherever I saw them. I would come back in about 30 minutes and watch for movement. A Mole will began trying to build up a tunnel, that they actively using. I used two shovels. When I saw the ground moving up and down in a spot. I shoved the shovel in at one end and started turning up the earth. You must be quick, but it will work. I flipped that Darn thing up into the air about three feet. It emitted a strange little noise, and began scurrying towards the driveway. I turned the spade on it's side and quickly dispatched it. I have recently seen more Mole activity this year, and now at least I know what to do. I only hope I can get them all....See Morekitchen panic
Comments (37)You have to laugh. Crying is too damn boring and makes your eyes puffy so then in addition to money pit issues, you look fugly. Nope, only laughter to deal with panic from now on. And guys and gals, you really have to pay attention to what workers are doing. Today when I thought the laid tiles would be grouted, the upper cabinets went up. Ok. Not worried BUT THEN THE LOWER CABINETS WERE BEING PUT OUT. I'm like "excuse me, but what about grouting the tile under the cabinets." "Oh that's not necessary." WHAAATTTT. I was like, "oh I don't think so." So they removed the base cabinets which were just sitting there so not that big a deal and grouted ALL the tiles. HELLO!!!! Must remember to stay alert at all times (NOTE TO SELF.) In all honesty, I did say I wanted the job done as quickly as possible and as inexpensively as possible so they're trying to cut corners, I suppose, is to be expected. But not that corner! No photos today because white painted maple against white primer on walls on top of white-ish marble-ish floor tiles equals PAINFUL. I feel like I should be doing a WHITE EXPLOSION thread with katiee511!...See MoreNew arrivals panic
Comments (29)Finished potting them up today. I must say I have to create a place where I can pot up while standing up... my back hurts.. All plants looked well grown, some had traces of growth from some budeyes already (a week in the post when the weather is not cold will do this) and for a few I had to do a bit of root trimming to properly fit in the 5 gallon pots. Maybe I should have bought larger ones. Everytime I do this I keep promising to myself that the roses will be in the ground before they need up-potting but somehow I never manage.. Btw, Sanguinea had a little branch with hips on it, I thought that was cute....See Morerwiegand
2 years agoken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
2 years agogawdinfever Z6
2 years agodiggerdee zone 6 CT
2 years agoprairiemoon2 z6b MA
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2 years agoMarie Tulin
2 years agoprairiemoon2 z6b MA
2 years agolast modified: 2 years ago
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