It’s a climber in zone 9. Helen

Thank you Helen!
Any idea about Othello? My potted Othello is throwing out 6+ feet canes and i am not sure if climbing it would help the plant. What are your thoughts?

Golden Celebration is definitely a small shrub in zone 9b Santa Barbara, CA. But I deadhead it well.

It is a climber for me, 9B Sacramento

It is about 8-9 feet, third year own roots

I don’t have Othello, but it’s a climber with with least 8ft H. Helen

Most Austins with the exceptions of the ones listed as (small) in their website can get large enough here to become small climbers if encouraged. I would think that in zone 9 anything but the smallest Austins would require lots of pruning to be kept as a small/medium bush (if receiving good amounts of water), water may be a big factor in how much they grow also.

I'm in zone 5 where roses die down to 1 foot in spring. Except for 2011-12 when it was mild and Golden Cel. was green to the tip (at least 2 feet tall). It was more stingy (long pause between flushes) as a climber. Below is GC at 5 feet tall in 2012, in 4 hrs. of sun, late August 2012 as a climber:

Then I moved it and grew as a shrub (3 feet tall) and the blooming is more continuous & no pause between flushes. Mine is 11th-year-own-root, below pic. was taken this June 2021 in 4 hrs. of weak morning sun:

I like Golden Cel.'s scent so I bought a 2nd own-root this May, and grow it in a pot. Even in a pot, it blooms more when I keep the canes shorter. Golden Cel. bought as a tiny rooting from LongAgoRoses this May 15, fast growth with 2 feet long cane. Pic. taken July 1:

I notice the same with Crown Princess Mag (10th-year-own-root), it blooms more continuously when I prune it short (1.5 feet) after each flush. It takes an ungodly amount of water and potassium to pump water up to 5 feet cane. Potassium regulates water-osmosis. My best flush of CPM was when I pruned it down to less than 1 foot for workers to fix my siding early spring, and here's the result, in only 4 hrs. of sun:

Definitely a Climber in So Cal. and also stingy on the rebloom.

Golden Celebration is both a large shrub and a potential climber in my zone 7, hot and dry climate. My rose is about 9 feet tall and I've grown it since 2007 or so; GC is grafted on Dr Huey. It's one of my favorite Austins and pretty much a constant bloomer. It goes well with pink, has no thrips problems here, and will climb if given something to support it, but otherwise it quite upright. Diane

I checked with Khalid who has 7 own-root Golden Celebration grown in zone 9b, Pakistan where the temp gets up to 121 F. He grows OWN-ROOT Golden Celebration as a shrub. Similarly, my own-root Jude the Obscure was only 1.5' x 1.5' versus rose park's Jude acts like a climber (over 7 feet tall) since it's grafted-on-Dr.Huey. If grafted-on-Dr.Huey, Golden Cel. would be much taller as a climber.

CONCLUSION: Golden Cel. is a shrub as own-root, even in zone 9b of Pakistan, pic. below is Khalid's own-root Golden Cel. in zone 9b, Pakistan in full-sun. His is a continuous bloomer, no pause in between:

Here's another of his own-root Golden Cel. in zone 9b. I will brutally prune my 2nd own-root Golden Cel. once I move it from pot into my clay.

My own root CG is over 8 feet tall, and wide spreading, and leaning over several other roses. It is about 8 years old. It would easily be a climber if I trained it. I garden on well-amended soil over red clay, on an east-facing slope, in hellish summer humidity and WET, cold winters. However...that has nothing whatsoever to do with gardening anywhere in CA.

I realize everyone is trying to help, but...some of us are not helping.

Austins, more than any other roses, are notorious for being larger in CA than the DA catalogue says. Some will grow at the expense of bloom. Octopus arms/canes are common with some (GC included). This is partly due to Austins being bred in the UK, where sunlight is about half the strength compared to CA, and water is much more abundant year round. They just don't/can't reach their genetic potential for growth in their "homeland".

So you asked the right question: what will it do for you in Z9B Los Angeles? Location, location, location. You need advice from someone either in LA, or near enough to have an identical climate. What it does for you TOTALLY depends on local conditions, and you should take any recommendations or stated sizes with a salt shaker's worth of salt if they come from more than 20 miles (or less) of you. IGNORE the rest of us, lol. We are mere data points on a graph of what is possible with CG. California has so many sub-climates that even 10 miles from you makes a difference, especially with reference to distance from the ocean or mountains. The amount and strength of sunshine that roses receive in CA, and especially the amount of water roses can be given can create monsters of roses that in other climates are well-mannered, or even finicky. The flip side is your dry season, which can stunt roses if they lack for irrigation.

So, it doesn't matter how many pretty pictures are posted, or how GC grows for me or a dozen other rosarians, you need to hear the experience of a LOCAL grower, probably more imperatively for CA than in any other state in the union.

Best of luck.

Thank you, fig_insanity Z7a E TN, for the info. about your soil (red clay), east facing, humid & wet climate. My 11th-year own-root Golden Celebration threw 5 feet octopus canes after we had tons of rain in July, in east facing (4-hrs of sun), and wet black heavy clay.

However, in its previous location of DRY raised bed, loamy soil and more sun, it behaved with zero octopus cane. (I moved it 3 times during 11 years). Khalid's Golden Celebration is compact since his soil is sandy/loamy, full-sun, plus hot temp and less water.

Below pic. is my Golden Cel. when was in a DRY raised bed with fluffy soil & more sun: really small and zero octopus canes:

In growing 145 own-root roses, a few were planted in amended & fluffy bag soil and in a raised bed (drier), these are much smaller than the same grown in dense clay and next to the rain-spout. I have 2 Abraham Darbys as own-roots to compare.

I need to put tiny & wimpy own-roots in rich & fertile clay and next to the rainspout, and I need to put the "octopus-cane" in loamy & fluffy soil & dry raised bed to control its size.

My 2-month-old 2nd-own-root Golden Cel. threw a 3 feet octopus cane since it's in a constantly wet & richly fertilized pot. It was a tiny rooting back in May.

The type of soil & fertilizer, amount of rain and amount of sun matter, even in the same garden.

My Lavender Crush in partial shade & dense clay and next to the rain spout is twice bigger than the 2nd Lavender Crush in drier soil and full-sun. Lavender Crush (grafted on Dr.Huey) threw 6 feet long octopus canes in partial shade. The amount of calcium & fertilizer given also matter, recently I dug down to 2nd Lavender Crush in full-sun to add lime and alfalfa and it doubled in size.

If someone has more fertile soil such as clay, roses will be much taller. Half-an hour drive was my previous garden in acidic clay and roses were much smaller, and NOT as vigorous as current roses in present alkaline clay. I never get roses over 2.5 feet tall in acidic clay, but I constantly have to prune long octopus canes in alkaline clay (more calcium and nitrogen).

Thank you everyone!!

@Diane Brakefield and @strawchicago z5 Your pictures are gorgeous!!

Diane,

If you’re still on this thread, how far back do you prune your Golden Celebration and Evelyn in spring ? I know they both end up very big and tall for you.

Hello, Ben, I prune Golden Celebration a lot harder than Evelyn which is not nearly as large. It doesn't matter because GC just grows back again. My Evelyns in shade are pruned moderately, and the one in the sun somewhat harder. That one grows all kinds of awkward canes and blooms a lot less than GC. Diane

Oh, I just realized I didn't give any feet and inches. It's never any set amount of rose that I end up with. I probably need to prune the awkward Evelyn to a couple of feet, but I haven't. GC is still pretty big after pruning, but you should see the amount pruned off. Diane

Thanks Diane. I agree Golden Celebration is extremely vigorous , I sort of prune it until I’m tired of pruning. I leave a few long canes to tie to a trellis, so I train it as both a climber and a bush.

I’ve left Evelyn as a climber, but might try to convert her to a shrub next spring, pruning her to just 3-4 feet. She’s huge too, but has less branches than GC. I remember Fragrancenutter used to wrap long Evelyn canes horizontally to maximize her blooms. that’s a bit much for me. She also disbudded Evelyn, which might be why she doesn’t post anymore (too busy disbudding Evelyn).

What does Evelyn like more? Being a shrub or climber? How tall does evelyn get as a climber?

Also, newbie question - when should i stop feeding my roses for my zone 9b LA? And when should i start pruning?

I am going to have to spend a very long time pruning all my roses :(

I think big Austins like GC and Evelyn would work equally well as climber or shrub in the South, just depends on how you want it in your space.

Golden Celebration has more flexible canes than Evelyn (in my garden). So I can easily see GC as a climber. If you look up the thread, I posted a photo of a GC cane woven through the porch railings. That was so easy to do and took about a minute. And Rose Beginner, you wouldn't believe how long it takes me to prune my roses. Forever, it seems like. The difference between a 2.5 foot tall rose and a 9 foot rose is several hours. Actually, my big Julias are about the worst--they each get an afternoon. They have an unbelievable number of canes. Diane

My Golden Celebration today facing SE on Dr. Huey in sandy loam pH7 hot inland SoCal near Pasadena, 3yr old plant. A few weeks ago it started sending out what I thought was a fall flush. Now it is 6-8 feet tall. I pruned hard after Spring flush in an attempt to keep it smaller, but it might be futile. It had a good, but not great, spring flush. Scattered summer blooms. Still hoping for a fall flush.

That looks wonderful, Stephanie, and pruning is futile--I mean sure, you will prune, but don't try to keep this rose 4 feet tall, particularly in California. Mine is about 9 feet tall in zone 7, and is pruned pretty hard in spring. In late October, I'll prune any extra tall canes to keep them from blowing all over the place. I remember that at about three years old, my GC really started blooming well. You should get a fall flush but don't prune it off-ha. My GC is grafted and an old guy, about 15 years old, and has a SE exposure. Diane

Diane, OMG 9 feet in zone 7! When you say pretty hard pruning in Spring….how tall is it after you prune? your climate is similar to mine with hot dry summers, but you get winter and we don’t. Soon we will get Santa Ana winds so I hope it hurries up and gets a fall flush in before then.

As I mentioned above in this thread (where my pics are posted, I think), I can't remember a set height--I don't prune that way. I prune to achieve a good balanced look and to get rid of crossing canes, damaged canes, and really old canes. I do remember pruning off a huge amount and it took me a long time. I hope you get that flush before the winds. My GC is blooming quite a bit right now, but maybe not a full flush, but close. Diane

Pruned in late March. Photo in early June.

You can see how much taller GC is than Boscobel.

Wow, I am fall in love with your Boscobel!!!

Thanks, Lynn. It's one of my favorite Austins. Diane