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smccahill

Kitchen Sink Visible from front door

smccahill
2 years ago

Hello, we are doing a major remodel to our house and now that we are about 70% through it we are questioning the kitchen layout. We are on a slab, so our plumbing is fixed, and we had two sinks in our old kitchen— a prep sink in one island, and the main kitchen sink in a bar/wall area. We removed the wall where the main sink was, and had to keep a structural post (see pic) and created a new island/bar with the main kitchen sink/dishwasher etc in the island, and a back island with the prep sink. It will be beautiful, and brand new, but is it weird to see the kitchen sink faucet as you walk in the front door??? Now thinking of maybe turning it into just an entertaining/dining only island with no sink, and moving the larger sink to the back island. Everything wasn’t designed this way so there are costs to change now, and we give up some prep space, some cabinetry, as well as a 2nd sink, but the mess is out of front door, maybe better feng shui in general? Any thoughts appreciated!

Comments (73)

  • Mrs Pete
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I see three options, and none are perfect, so the question is, Which can you best accept?

    - Change your layout /move the sink, which will cost a ton and set back your timeline.

    - Change your attitude about the sink, which is difficult but free.

    - Add a narrow wall that will block the sink from the front door's view, which will block light and openness.

  • PRO
    GN Builders L.L.C
    2 years ago

    P.S the worst part is to have a sink on the flat island intended for seating, the island becomes useless. Nobody wants to sit at the counter with water splashing all over or looking at the dirty dishes, not to mention the clean-up.

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  • decorpatti
    2 years ago

    I have no doubt that it will be beautiful as it is, and a vase of flowers or a lovely plant could certainly block the view. This sink island seems much smaller than the large stained island that seems to be between the range area and the sink, which seems like it will block easy traffic flow from the sink to the stove, though I can't see all counters in the kitchen. That would bother me when working in the space, and so I would put the main sink in that larger island now, while it is still possible (though expensive). The island that is visible from the living area and the entrance seems to work better as a dining/gathering space, I wouldn't want my sink right in the center of our living space, but that is just my opinion. As I said, it will be fresh, new, and beautiful, no matter what!

  • cat_ky
    2 years ago

    I would remove the sink. It is in an inconvenient location, and seeing the sink area as soon as you come in your front entrance (where guests usually come in), would bother me considerably.

  • palimpsest
    2 years ago

    I think adding a column for balance would go a long way toward addressing the various visual issues. This kitchen appears traditional/transitional (panel detail on the column), so the single column pretty much calls out "I contain plumbing" or "wall removed". Asymmetry like that only works in very modern designs and sometimes not then. So I agree with Fori.


  • smccahill
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    You guys are so helpful!! Some other angles!

  • KW PNW Z8
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I do love the idea of adding the column, My preference would also be to have sink in middle island nearer to cooktop. Looks like dishwasher is next to sink. That’s good for loading up dishes but it’s a long walk to cupboards for unloading & putting them away….

  • cupofkindnessgw
    2 years ago

    @Jen K (7b, 8a) No, not the 70s, but what is going to stand the test of time in the space that the OP is creating.... The notion that when one walks into a higher end home, no matter how modern, or few the walls, the kitchen sink is not visible from the front door. This isn't a studio in Manhattan. We all need sleep but we don't put a bed in view of the front door. We all drive cars but we generally don't park them inside the house. I understand that this design combines living, food prep and eating areas. That's wonderful. I think the OP has a very lovely kitchen regardless of her decision. But she posted the question, she is having doubts. Good for her for asking! When she is certain that what she is creating is one she can live with, not only the "sink from the door view" problem, but in terms of the flow of the space and function, she will be happier with the outcome.

  • palimpsest
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Here are some rough views of what a second column for balance would do. The first one is probably the most inaccurate because of the angle of the original photo, but all will give you some idea from different perspectives.






  • Nidnay
    2 years ago

    No to another column….also not the most attractive when walking into the kitchen to be faced with a huge column.

  • palimpsest
    2 years ago

    I am not sure faced with a huge column is how it will read--you are also walking through pairs of the same column as you proceed.


  • chicagoans
    2 years ago

    (not a pro) What if you did a narrow, raised section at that end of the island? It wouldn't block the column but it could block what's on the counter. It could have glass doors and shelves to store pretty items (or cookbooks), or could be a cool shape with an interesting top.



  • cupofkindnessgw
    2 years ago

    @chicagoans That is a brilliant idea! I love the glass door cabinet in the first picture you posted. It adds so much.

  • PRO
    Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    A variation on saloon doors would be kind of cool:

    https://www.swingingcafedoors.com/colonial-raised-panel-saloon-doors-swinging-cafe-doors/?gclid=CjwKCAjw7fuJBhBdEiwA2lLMYbmn4QhqSrx9pfQK5TsvaSYHhfkNXMu7rBK80V198K6tHjOhdJvoFhoCQP8QAvD_BwE


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    And probably cheaper than moving the sink.

  • palimpsest
    2 years ago

    The general concept that is being talked about here, in design or architecture, is called "a sense of entry" --how does it make you feel when you walk in. This can mean different things to different people: Frank Lloyd Wright's idea of sense of entry was to compress you into a small space at the front door to lead you to the more important rooms, like the living room, where he directed you at a focal point sometimes at a diagonal across the room.


    It's not always possible to provide an optimum sense of entry, you can't really do it in a small apartment for example. But I also feel like the sense of entry has been subverted in modern architecture where you walk into a very tall entry hall and the rooms you walk into after that have more modest proportions and the idea of a primary focal point has been lost. And in a large house there should be plenty of opportunities to provide a sense of entry at each major room.


    One of the things that bugs me about the layout in general and I am speaking purely in terms of theory now, is that the kitchen does not really have a great sense of entry. I was taught that you never had a view of the side of something as the first thing from a primary entry to a room.

    And here you are presented with the side of the island, an off-center column, and three random sized windows.


    I think in general the kitchen looks like it is going to be handsome. The foyer looks like it is handsome. The doorway between the two with the paired columns sets up something almost ceremonial headed into the kitchen. And then what happens next looks -- random. I realize that this project is a renovation and there were a lot of things that were pre-existing, so the lack of a good sense of entry from the foyer to this room is something that may not have been possible. It could have been much much worse. I have seen many a front door where you look into a powder room at the toilet, or a closet with cheap bifold doors on it that don't close properly, even in expensive houses. So is it a huge deal, no. But I think it's something that designers and architects often neglect to even consider anymore, because many houses or projects have turned into a checklist of "must haves" that no longer create a cohesive whole.



  • smccahill
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    Palimpsest what great observations! Perhaps that is why I actually think it looks worse with no faucet there since the faucet detracts from the offset island post.

  • smccahill
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    What if the island was gone altogether? Would post as you walk in look worse?

  • rebunky
    2 years ago

    Yes I think the island screams for another pillar! I’m working on my symmetry issues, but that would really bug me. I took Pals great pillar mockup and added chigagoans idea of the glass door cabinet. I’d probably make the cabinet go up a little taller then the countertop to hide any messes. Then stick a potted plant, vase of flowers, or whatever you like on top to hide the tall faucet. I’m sure the scale is way off here, but something like this?


  • modpod
    2 years ago

    Oh that seems like an unfortunate accident. What were your goals and ideas when you (I'm assuming a designer did not help) created this kitchen? Why does the middle island have an extended side top, are you adding seating there as well? Aside from the column and seeing the faucet when you enter, I truly think the bigger issue is the flow and workspace of your kitchen. Having the sink and dishwasher(?) and trash away from where you ae cooking and prep I think in the long run will be more of a pain than necessary. Most double island setups allow for the dirty/working kitchen parts to stay together to allow for the furthest island to be a gathering/sitting / food buffet display for gatherings. You will miss that. It's ture, most people don't want to sit in front of a sink, and as it is the larger sink, it will in inevitably be surrounded with dirty glasses and do dishes.

    I would highly suggest to truly go through your layout once again and really think about where everything is going and how it will function and did you function in the space. I think you might decide it is best to change the sink to the middle island and rearrange the island setups. It will look get when finished, whichever direction you choose, but you might be left with a not such great functioning kitchen in the long run for the amount of money spent.

    Good luck!

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  • mnmamax3
    2 years ago

    @smccahill I can visualize how the previous island setup worked with the main sink hidden behind the wall leaving the middle island to be your gather around space. I just think with the more open concept, that island with the post is going to be better utilized as buffet/seating space.

  • palimpsest
    2 years ago

    @smcahill, no, I don't think the post would look better without the island. I feel like the island anchors it. Do you have a floorplan?

    Is the island actually centered in the doorway but the post if off-center or is it the other way around?

    Or are they both off center from the doorway?

  • Jennifer Hogan
    2 years ago

    If this were my home I would have to move the sink.


    If I didn't move it now I know that every time I walked through the front door and saw the sink I would be irritated that this didn't work out as well as I had imagined. 20 years of a constant reminder isn't something I would want to live with.


    For those who say leave it, you can always change it later, they are correct, but it will cost far more to change it after the counters are in place than to bite the bullet and do it now.


  • palimpsest
    2 years ago

    Cameras distort, so it's not a Brunelleschi perspective where you can figure out the exact vanishing point but this view seems to support the column being centered

    The framing from the doorway seems to put the island more toward the center (green lines)

  • Maureen
    2 years ago

    The sink will be the last thing people see, once the space is completed, if that‘s your main concern.

    Won’t be an eyesore on its own.

    I’d be more concerned about functionality of the sink’s location and best use of that island. I wouldn't add another column, as it will box it in. If island was longer, that would be another story.




  • Jennifer Hogan
    2 years ago

    I may also remove all the cladding around the post. Why make it larger and more obvious? I know they were matching the posts at the front door, but this is not in the formal entry and not acting as a frame like the front entry posts do.


    A plain post may look better with the simple, more modern design of the rest of the open concept space.



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    Another option that I like is to make the post a design feature - maybe clad it to match your fireplace.



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  • wilson853
    2 years ago

    I have a friend who has two columns on her island and they get in the way. One is structural and the other is not, but it was added for symmetry back in the '90's. I would avoid that at all costs.

    If you haven't done so already, I would place a DW next to the prep sink so you may also use it as a clean up sink. I'd keep the sink in the forward island and use it for parties - fill it with ice and beverages. If you have the space I like the idea of the taller cabinet on the end. That would be a great spot to hide outlets.

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  • palimpsest
    2 years ago



  • palimpsest
    2 years ago



  • PRO
    Diana Bier Interiors, LLC
    2 years ago

    @palimpsest stated it best--having the kitchen fully open to the entry is not good design. There's no sense of transition, no gradual reveal. I'd try to address that before any of the other suggestions like adding posts, moving the sink, and the symmetry issue.

  • palimpsest
    2 years ago

    @smcahill, You asked if it would be better with no island at the column. Just for completion I did a dirty erase of the island with the sink on it. I think the column looks very displaced attached to nothing.


  • Nidnay
    2 years ago

    If you were going to remove the island, then maybe remove the wood surround on the column and replace with shallow lighted cabinet from floor to ceiling. Lighted cabs would be on front and back sides. Just a thought. It would be something pretty to see when first entering the foyer.

  • palimpsest
    2 years ago

    @Diana Bier Interiors, LLC, I don't know I think the point at which to address it from a transitions, sense-of-entry perspective is past, and I am not sure what could have been done with the structural column to begin with.(?) We have been addressing this from only one viewpoint and I think it is probably something that only the design oriented will pay much attention to. The entryway looks handsome, the kitchen is handsome and that's what most people will notice.

    My house had a lot of symmetry imposed upon it by the architect, but the size of the house, and the position of the basement door meant that the staircase impinged on the a primary axis from the front door to the french doors at the back of the living room. (By about 9 inches or so). Design oriented people walk in and say "Oh, that's weird". and someone else said that it was the worst part of the house. That's fine because it was the very first thing I noticed when I looked at the house. (And I am cutting off the nine inches and repositioning the basement door to "Fix" it. The majority of people would barely notice the relative pinch point it causes in the design.

  • chicagoans
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Not sure if this has been asked, but what's your lighting plan? A gorgeous fixture over the island could help draw the eye to a beautiful focal point.

    ETA: of course any fixture needs to be considered with other adjacent spaces in mind, not just the entry.

  • Fori
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I like that, Chicagoans!


    The post doesn't bug me so much as seeing KITCHEN from front door (especially in a formal home). This appears to reduce the KITCHEN feel from the entry while leaving the kitchen as designed.

    Just be careful so it doesn't look like the maitre d's station. :)

  • smccahill
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    Here is an initial layout we planned for this remodel, funny because it had three posts in it, but as walls etc. got removed we realized we could remove other posts like the one highlighted in red in the original house plan (see below). In the attached original house plans for kitchen you can see there was a diagonal wall as you walked into the home and it guided you into the living room. It was very awkward, but now realize it served a purpose to hide the kitchen sink! The post that could not be removed is highlighted in blue.

  • palimpsest
    2 years ago

    The Diagonal wall served to direct your focus to the fireplace by turning you to walk in that direction. Angles aren't my favorite, but that seems how it was intended.


    Here is what I see on the current plan. It appears that neither the island nor the post are quite centered in the doorway


  • 3onthetree
    2 years ago

    @chicagoans alright, since you broke the ice, I can now mention what I was debating to bring up thinking it would cloud the OP's woes.

    Sink Island: has 2 can lights - ok. Then the working aisle for it has 3 can lights, 1 which will light the DW open door very well! The 2nd will sorta light your head and the trash pullout. All 3 lighting the floor.

    Stove wall: has 3 cans - lighting the floor really and not the counter, but ok for some I guess.

    Prep Island: no lighting, only indirect from the adjacent aisle floor lights on each side. Does that affect your decision on whether to switch sinks?


  • palimpsest
    2 years ago

    In my opinion some of the issues would be ameliorated by centering the island in the opening and making the column a bit wider to center it on the island and the opening


  • palimpsest
    2 years ago

    Depending upon the beam spread regular cans will create ambient light. The way to set lighting is to plan for overlapping beam spread at countertop height. The cans that are over the work aisle are offset from the two over the sink island. This should allow for overlapping beam spread and infill. Unless you choose a bulb with a very narrow beam spread, and there is no reason to do that unless you are doing some sort of accent lighting, this lighting is not going to shine only straight down onto the floor. These aren't spotlights, you would be using wide angled floodlight bulbs


  • smccahill
    Original Author
    2 years ago

    Modpod asked if there was a plan for extra seating at the other island with the overhang-yes there was, but if we move the sink we are thinking that we will square off that island and make room for more prep space, and eliminate seating.

  • 3onthetree
    2 years ago

    @palimpsest The proper way to light a kitchen is to light the counters direct, not the floors, and not to have a person's shadow blocking the light from an only-available source behind you. Skinny galley kitchen layouts are the acceptable exception based on ceiling space available.

    A prep area and cleanup sink area should have the direct light, not the floor below.

  • palimpsest
    2 years ago

    I think the kitchen could probably use more, but I don't exactly agree, not based on the lighting courses I have taken. The three cans are in front of the prep island so their beam spread will shine on the countertop of the prep island and part of the sink island unless you use a very narrow beam spread, which there is no reason to. There is usually no reason to have the can immediately over head particularly on perimeter counters where it creates visual hotspots on the fronts of the upper cabinets. (But these cabinets should also have undercabinet lighting). Islands yes, I agree should have lighting overhead, probably centered down the middle, but that's not the only way to light a kitchen adequately. I will generally aim for a perfect grid of cans as a primary pattern to create even lighting throughout the entire room. The surest way to have a shadow is to aim the beam right at the top of the person's head.

  • 3onthetree
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Show this to those lighting courses. Undercabinet lighting is also supplemental lighting. Uniform lighting grids are for offices and rec rooms (where you may desire higher footcandles but the furniture layout may still need be flexible).



  • palimpsest
    2 years ago

    Sure, if you are using a single source with the beam spread of a laser beam. And I don't mean a grid like a dropped ceiling and fluorescent troffers, I am talking about an even arrangement of cans, to start, rather than random ceiling acne.

  • Tara
    2 years ago

    Such are the problems of the open concept kitchen/living space.

  • Kyle
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    I may be the minority here as i do feel the island looks odd from the entry way. the issue seems to be its boxy-ness and the column does not help. i would not mind if it was the dining table or some chairs, but the island just feels “in the way”.


    if the island cannot be moved, i would consider installing a glass door ( not clear glass but pattern glass or privacy glass) so you cannot see the island from the front door. and when you open this glass door you are already in the kitchen/living room so the island might feel less in the way and also more connected to the rest of kitchen.


    also i did not read through all the comments but if the column does not serve a real purpose i would definitely remove it…

  • Fori
    2 years ago

    Kyle, what about an artsy glass panel at the end of the island instead of doors?


    Oops I just got sneeze guard vibes.

  • rebunky
    2 years ago
    last modified: 2 years ago

    Maybe it would be best to just install some decorative glass pocket doors on the wall that opens to kitchen/family room as suggested. I would probably still do the higher cabinet or bookshelf idea so it still conceals the sink a little. I like the idea of a pretty chandelier centered so it draws the eye away from the offcentered pillar.



  • theresa21
    2 years ago

    I think your windows beyond and the natural light they provide are going to be what draws people from the foyer into your kitchen space. I don't think adding another column or showcasing a glass display cabinet at the end of your island will help. If you are satisfied with the function of your kitchen layout, I would leave the island as is and simplify the column as @Jennifer Hogan suggested.

  • HU-217444546
    2 years ago

    Leaving the sink where it is on the main island is not ideal for reasons expressed below. To disguise from the front door, you could put in a "nib" wall only say, 8-12" higher than the benchtop, and as wide as the island, or even half the island (on the sink side). The nib could have a shelf on top, for displaying a lovely plant or something to further break the view, or be faced with marble or timber to make it a feature. I agree (despite some comments below) that no-one wants to look at a bunch of dirty dishes or prep area - at any time really! I'm all for a butler's pantry with the sink in there if it can be arranged anywhere :)