When you say dampers you mean little flaps that shut when not blowing? If so they do have those. The ducting runs through the attic which is fully spray foamed so theoretically should be cool-ish up there. I'll try everything you said.. I just looked at the flap things outside and a couple seem warped.. made out of plastic. Are there better ones out there?

The duct between the fan and the outside vent needs to be insulated. If it is not then the warm humid air coming from the bathroom will create condensation in the winter. The condensation will drip back onto the fan and cause mold. Even though the attic has spray foam insulation, it is not heated and will get cold enough to create condensation under the right conditions. The outdoor vent flap will not solve this problem.

Feeling warm humid air backdrafting from "Tropical storms" should mean you're in the South, but condensation certainly happens the opposite way for those of us up North. During heavy winds, I don't suppose many flaps (dampers) will stay shut, but there are better vs worse wall caps in the construction and method of "flapping."

Also, just thinking, the dampness over the ceiling could be from a leak at the wall cap, where heavy winds (or just plain rain) is pushing water past the wall and it is running down a back-sloped vent pipe. So check that the wall cap is sealed (some hoods come off, others are riveted to the vent pipe). I would think a water problem would cause much worse mold on the ceiling, so that is why I say it looks from condensation, but good to check for leaks anyway.

I will check the insulation around the pipe.. any suggestions on whats best to use? also I saw some in-line valve things that allow air out but not air in.. anyone have any experience with those?

https://www.amazon.com/Draft-Blocker-Backdraft-Preventer-Deflector/dp/B083M613K3/ref=asc_df_B083M613K3/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416709561491&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13830919465720471334&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9052659&hvtargid=pla-871905866825&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=97957279110&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416709561491&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=13830919465720471334&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9052659&hvtargid=pla-871905866825

How long do you leave the fan running after bathing. I've heard "not less than 30 minutes" as a common suggestion. Timers that will do just that are available and easily installed.

The purpose is to clear moisture out of the exhaust path as well as the room. Do you do that, and also crack a window in another room to provide make-up air?

We actually leave the fan running constantly sometimes... we are bad about it. After using a bathroom we go to work ant it runs all day. We can't crack a window because the humidity outside is 80%+ typically.. After I cleaned the fans/grills/ceilings we have not been running the fans at all to see if that was an issue. Is there any chance that the fans running all the time somehow cause or contribute to this issue?

If you have central AC, it should easily deal with the humidity from makeup air. Your fans can't exhaust air if there isn't a makeup system or a window cracked. Unless your house is very leaky, in which case, having the fans on is sucking in air through walls and electrical openings, and from around windows and plumbing openings all the same. Pick a window to open for 15 minutes and be done with it. It could be the fan has enough air throughput to collect the humid air behind the grill and in the duct but not enough to exhaust it and dry it out.

Replace the switch controlling the fan with a digital count down timer. I run mine for 20 minutes starting from when I start the shower. I have never had a mold problem. It will save electricity and wear and tear on the fan. Just leave the bathroom door open and you should be fine.

You can install a insulation duct sleeve. This one is for a 6 inch duct, there is also a 4 inch sleeve available.

We often see similar problems in our local area caused by back-drafting of hot, humid outside air that condenses on interior surfaces. The flapper in a typical bath vent fan doesn't seal that well, particularly if it has accumulated some amount of dust and lint. Prevention methods include periodic cleaning and maintenance of bath vent fans and running them at least 30 minutes following a shower to reduce relative humidity in the space.

Both fans are builder grade and very close to exterior walls and go straight out.

"builder grade" or not... these fans are typically for venting for toilet activities. Not moisture related concerns. Is the vent fan over the toilet area? (there you go) Stop blaming the Builder.... lol. Yet because I am a betting man, this was probably an over sight by the.... builder. Was it you Charles? (jk)

Certainly there could be back draft concerns, but first I would be more interested in better sealing that fan box. I can see from the picture that it "looks" like the sheet rock was just cut and the vent box just placed above it.

The idea here is to seal it from attic where warmer air is likely to exist. I can only assume that the attic is on the other side of that ceiling sheet rock. The other sheet rock stain to the left in the picture you provide suggests the same, either no insulation on the other side of that sheet rock or very little.

Make sure everything is sealed / well insulated around the vent box as well as to the left of the box that shows the sheet rock stain. After this is done, pick up some Kilz to encapsulate that stain. Paint it etc.

In some instances you "may" cause problems by running these sorts of fans trying to expel things they were not designed for. Heavy moisture laden air is one such thing.... the other is air into the room = air out. If there is no introduction of fresh air into a room then there is no "real" expulsion of air with a fan of this nature.

This is might be yet another thread that goes off the deep end. Get ready..... lol.

These bathrooms are rarely used for showering.. mainly just toilet use. As far as the fans being builder grade ..I was just trying to provide information. I'll try insulating both boxes... yes these fans are in the attic area. The lower fans on the first level don't have this issue so that sounds like it might be the entire issue. After I insulate I'll see how it goes. Thanks!

These bathrooms are rarely used for showering.. mainly just toilet use.

Ok... hard to come to conclusions so I just assumed something often affiliated with this kind of issue.

Given that new information: The sheet rock with the stain (to the left of the fan) is likely sweating... over time under that condition mold will grow. There may be periods of that as if the moisture doesn't continue for a time the mold dies and leaves the stains you exhibit.

To prevent that sweating / what looks to be mold growth that vent box needs to be sealed to the sheetrock and then insulated fully.

HU,

I live in a mixed-humid (coastal VA) climate. Mold and mildew grow on everything here,. I've seen similar issues to yours in a number of homes-- the majority of which were bath vent fans that were back drafting. The worst case was a dryer vent that was back drafting and causing a large volume of condensation in the dryer.

If your problem is back drafting and your attic is spray foam insulated as you describe, no amount of air sealing and insulation is going to fix your problem. You've got to stop the reverse air flow. If the damper which is integrated with the vent fan isn't sufficient, then I'd install another type of damper.

The problem with installing a backdraft damper in a bathroom vent fan exhaust is the added pressure drop which will result in reduced air flow. Instead of a spring-loaded damper which will greatly reduce the flow, I suggest you use this one manufactured by Tamarack:

https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.supplyhouse.com/product_files/TTI-CBD4-product.pdf

"builder grade" or not... these fans are typically for venting for toilet activities. Not moisture related concerns. Is the vent fan over the toilet area? (there you go) Stop blaming the Builder.... lol. Yet because I am a betting man, this was probably an over sight by the.... builder. Was it you Charles? (jk)

Nope. Sorry, Ray, You're spewing misinformation. Again.

The function of a bath vent fan is to remove both moisture and odors. Here's what the Home Ventilation Institute (HVI) says about bath vent fans (it's simple enough for you to understand):

"A bathroom exhaust fan is a mechanical ventilation device which, when ducted to the exterior of the house, draws out stale, impure and very humid air thereby improving the quality of indoor air."

https://www.hvi.org/resources/publications/bathroom-exhaust-fans/

I would expect a HVAC "professional" to know the purpose of a bath vent fan. It's not rocket science. It's a topic that's covered in HVAC 101 or more precisely, "V" 101. i can only infer that you must have been absent that day in HVAC school, Ray. LOL!

If the problem is back drafting--and the OP's comments suggest that it is--then insulation and air sealing will do nothing to mitigate the problem. Hot. humid air would be entering the home via the bath vent fan exhaust duct. Moisture condenses on the first condensing surface which is the back side of the vent fan grill. The next condensing surface is the drywall in the vicinity of the fan; it's at room temperature which would be approximately 70 F +/- compared with a higher outdoor temperature. The paper face of the drywall is a wonderful food source for mold/mildew. If you insulate the back (attic) side of the drywall, it will make the drywall surface temperature slightly lower than it currently is, and do nothing to mitigate the problem--in fact, since it would lower the temperature of the condensing surface-- it could make the problem worse. Ditto for air sealing penetrations around the fan--particularly if the attic has spray foam insulation. Attack the root cause of the problem which is the back flow of humid air.

Ray-- A couple of options: 1..) you can attempt to divert and deflect or 2.) you can always fall back on your preferred tactic of minimizing and name calling the individual who called your "reasoning" into question. Either will be consistent with your m.o. when challenged.

LOL Chucky.

Builder grade option. "There's a reason they call it that".

The "builder" places them directly above the toilet, because they know the toilet produces a lot of moist humid air?

Using Chucky's logic... you should put one inside the shower. ( no link necessary )

Yeah pay no attention to my post... I am attempting to divert you away from common sense.

Yes, Ray, best practice would be to install a vent fan above each shower or moisture generating source. They call it "point source ventilation" for a reason.

Charles Ross Homes

yesterday

Yes, Ray, best practice would be to install a vent fan above each shower or moisture generating source. They call it "point source ventilation" for a reason.

Then why isn't it done Charles Ross?

(I've been in thousands of homes during my 27 year HVAC career... not a single time have I ever seen what you suggest.)

Common sense would tell you?

See a builder of this nature is going to refer you to "paper". They don't live in the real world. Real world problems require investigating, not refering you to more "paper".

----------------

Could backdraft cause this problem? maybe. if the little damper to the fan is missing. (check valve is really more what I would call it)

Only if that little "check valve damper is missing" : why? because backdrafts are going to happen "intermittently" --- typically not enough to generate this kind of problem in a bathroom primarily used for going to the bathroom.

If the ceiling above is void of insulation / or not properly insulated -- the vent fan box not sealed as it looks in the picture this rooms cool air will cause this sheet rock to sweat.

Backdraft could add to the problem... but IMO backdrafts are too intermittent of a problem to cause this.

How is this vent, vented? Is there a cap over it on the roof?

Real world details is how you solve it.

Arguing about placing crapper fans in showers is just running down pointless rabbit holes that lead to "no where constructive". -Ironic building humor? You decide. LOL.

Building codes are odd things. They get updated on a three-year cycle and they are slow to incorporate the current building science. So, building codes typically lag best practices by a couple of years. The codes doesn't, for example, require a vent fan at a shower nor do they require a vent hood over a cook top, but I wouldn't omit either. They also permit vented crawl spaces in the south, but that's a recipe for problems.

We install the Broan/Nutone combination vent fan/light in every shower we build or remodel. Ditto in each powder room or toilet compartment whether it has a window or not.

https://www.build.com/product/summary/323403?uid=877559&jmtest=gg-gbav2_877559&inv=1&&source=gg-gba-pla_877559!c12080705691!a117210690420!dc!ng&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8ZrZ2Kj88gIVS5yzCh2v4gJlEAQYASABEgJMKPD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Now back to the OP's issue....

The interior side of the drywall ceiling is close to room temperature. If it's uninsulated then in the summer, it would be warmer than room temperature. Insulating the back (attic) side would bring it back to room temperature. If room temperature is 70F and the dewpoint of the outdoor air is higher, it will condense on the supply grill and on the drywall in the vicinity of supply in the event of back drafting. So insulating it doesn't address the root cause of the problem. Bathroom vent fans have a cheap plastic damper built into them. They are anything but air tight in my experience. Since most homes operate at negative pressure, there is a driving force for back drafting of vent fans every time the air handler runs.

I've frequently seen exhaust vents over tubs and showers.

Having spent a career as a service provider, when reputation and ability to develop positive relationships with customers mattered a great deal, I imagine this often combative contributor doesn't realize that his aggressive tone probably discourages rather than encourages potential customers from contacting him.

Bathroom vent fans have a cheap plastic damper built into them. They are anything but air tight in my experience. Since most homes operate at negative pressure, there is a driving force for back drafting of vent fans every time the air handler runs.

Yes. If properly installed there is no backdraft because the little damper acts as a check valve.

What is a check valve? only allows flow one way. If someone failed to install this damper, sure backdrafting all the time. (I doubt that is the issue here for obvious reasons to me.)

If room goes under negative pressure the damper (check valve closes) --- under a positive pressure? valve opens, relieves pressure.

(These are outside the operation of the fan itself.)

Yes, these fans not going to be air tight... it's a vent fan. LOL.

The $100 common sense question: If backdrafting is truly the problem, why then is there more stains to the left than to the right of the vent as well as the front and back sides of the vent?

Hi, It took me awhile to figure this out, but here goes if you have a fan rated at 100 cubic feet per minute and your intake will only allow 10cfm that is going to be as good as it gets. Om my own I have experimented with this Take a shower with fan on and door closed when done the mirror is covered with moister, next time take a shower leave the bathroom door open take a shower when done check the mirror it's dry. i have installed Louver in doors to cure the problem.

Good Luck Woodbutcher

Let's go back to the beginning and start from there.

"...when we have strong winds/tropical storms the house gets humid and I feel like the outside air is coming through these fans."

"The ducting runs through the attic which is fully spray foamed...."

True. So the OP posted here to gain friends because they choose to think the same way he does? OR did he post here to find a solution that clearly no one else is thinking of besides me?

So let's ignore common sense as I posted above?

(for convenience I provide it again below...)

The $100 common sense question: If backdrafting is truly the problem, why then is there more stains to the left than to the right of the vent as well as the front and back sides of the vent?

Yeah, Mr. Charles Ross your only mission on this board is to derail me. Isn't it? Because you have no answer for common sense.

------------

woodbutcher_ca - my sentiments exactly. Hat's off to you.

My mission, Ray is to help folks troubleshoot problems. In doing so, I add to my own problem solving "inventory."

Basic physics is a helpful tool in troubleshooting. So are listening to the OP and following the evidence. To be clear about the physics, Ray, what Woodbutcher related is simple evidence that fan performance curves are real: when a bath fan is starved for air flow, you get what you get. That apparently was the case when air was supplied only through the gap at the bathroom door bottom. Allowing more air to flow through a larger opening enabled the fan to exhaust more--up to the limits of the fan performance curve. With inadequate bathroom ventilation, condensation can occur on various surfaces including mirrors, dry ceilings, etc. Mold and mildew can result.

A reduction in air flow will occur if additional pressure drop is added to the system--like the addition of a back flow damper. The hinged-type back flow damper proposed by the OP has a fairly high pressure drop associated with it; it will reduce the air flow rate much more than other available back flow preventers such as the one in the link I provided. That should address the most likely cause--at least according to the thinking I outlined above.

My mission, Ray is to help folks troubleshoot problems. In doing so, I add to my own problem solving "inventory."

I guess I'll just choose to disagree with you. LOL.

Still no answer to why most of the stains are to the left of the crapper fan? Ironic.

I guess we'll chalk that up as too big of a problem for a builder, huh?

I commented on the asymmetrical air flow in an earlier post. Mildew and mold don't grow in well defined geometric patterns when air flow is involved. They can grow in interesting geometric patterns when the conditions along a surface are different. This is the case illustrated in another post on houzz:

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/6174577/how-is-this-mold-spreading#n=15

The pattern of mold/mildew growing on the dining room ceiling is evidence that the area between the ceiling joists is at a lower temperature than the areas directly under the joists.

Charles are you running to and fixing these problems for home owners yourself or are you barking orders to your "partners" to go fix? You know Subcontractors and GC's (general contractors)

There are clear "problems" with what you think is happening and that clearly shows your experience level of these matters. (no experience)

Because you have no experience / your subcontractors & GC's are told what to do on a regular basis it's not likely you can count on them for any trouble shooting skills either-- what would be in it for them anyway? paycheck to paycheck and more under paid grunt work of being told what to do. That's the home builder realm I know, which is perfectly fine if that's what you like. I chose a different path when it became abuntantly clear of what I was being told to do was "flawed" thinking. (There's this thought that you can skip the grunt work years of doing and seeing yourself. Why do you think I call this the "paper world" versus the world of "reality"?

Best for you to just concentrate on building houses. Builders are just not cut out to do anything more than that 9 times out of 10.

The advantage of being a builder: you start out with a blank slate. Fresh land with nothing on it.

The disadvantage of being a builder: You're always working from a blank slate. You don't truly "know" anything different... unless problems crop up with in a year or two with the home you built. (that isn't an advantage in HVAC land because certain problems that develop can take much longer than a year or two...)

Ray,

You routinely exercise the "get back in your "builder box" when I disagree with you. In this case you've given wrong information. This is a building science problem and it's clear you don't have a background in that. You didn't even understand the purpose of a bathroom vent fan is to exhaust odors--and, more importantly--moisture. Ventilation is the "V" in HVAC. I can only infer you're not involved with ventilation design, installation or service.

For the record, let me inform you that I do more than design, build and remodel homes. I do forensic work and consulting for homeowners who have problems--usually after two or three different trade contractors have failed to properly diagnose and solve the problem. My toolkit includes 40 years of real-world engineering experience including considerable HVAC (commercial, industrial and residential) and training in building science. My credentials include an engineering degree and a professional engineer's license in addition to my contractor's license.

Houzzers can take or leave any of the free advice given on these threads. It's unfortunate that you become belligerent when someone with more relevant knowledge and experience confronts you with the facts, logic, or basic physics. Professionals should be, well, professional. And they should know enough that when they've dug themselves in a hole, it's best to put down the shovel.

"You routinely exercise the "get back in your "builder box" when I disagree with you. In this case you've given wrong information."

CR Homes, this is a recurring pattern and not just with you. .

As for building science, he may be in the dark. He's said repeatedly he doesn't do load calculations, something that has gotten to be an accepted standard practice and in some cases, like in my state, a mandatory step when pulling a permit.

It may not be required by the building code in Texas but I wonder if he pulls permits when installing new equipment?

As for building science, he may be in the dark. He's said repeatedly he doesn't do load calculations.

Not true. What I said was, I don't do them for "free". What I did say is that a heat load can be manipulated to be anything "the person doing it" wants it to be... either thru manipulation or mistake. But some people like to put words in my mouth thru selective amnesia.

You routinely exercise the "get back in your "builder box" when I disagree with you.

builder grade was used at the start of the thread. It's not just me. ha-ha.

"Not true. What I said was, I don't do them for "free"."

You should be doing the work for yourself, not for the customer. Build the cost as you see it into your bids.

How do you know what size equipment to install without following the industry standard and accepted measurement procedure? It's not voodoo science, it's the long accepted and prescribed step to perform.

"If there was a problem in the way I do things? I wouldn't have the time to post here and do all the other things I do besides HVAC."

I'd made a longer post but I removed it.

In my experience, busy contractors don't have time for forums like this. For many, as I'm sure you find, it's not a source of new business. Anyway, the better ones have more business than they have time to handle as it is.

When you work alone, don't you find it a challenge to learn new things or learn ways to improve what you're doing? You have no one to collaborate with, no one to bounce ideas off of, no one to learn from or to point out things better done differently. Stuck doing things the same way over and over. .

I did my professional work in a collaborative large organization, full of people with differing areas of expertise, from whom I learned and got better. There are solo practitioners in my field, people who work on their own, and when I would periodically encounter them, the quality of what they did was often awful. Doing the same thing in an incorrect or suboptimal way for years, when applicable, doesn't lead to more knowledge or experience. It's simply repetition.

@Elmer J Fudd,

I don't think Ray's real estate empire demands all that much of his time. According to Harris County, Texas records, he owns a single home in addition to his own. His single rental property is assessed at $157K

I'm not particularly interested in his personal information but don't think his business takes a lot of his time either. When I checked Yelp ratings for his area awhile ago, I found there are several of his competitors with more and superior ratings that I'm sure are very busy. He's expressed some contempt for my commenting that busy contractors of high repute in my two residential areas sometimes have multiweek wait lists for non-emergency jobs, something he apparently doesn't face.

Most trade contractors in our area have a two week backlog at the moment, but some are longer. My tile setter, for example, is booked through the end of this year, as is my company.

In my experience, busy contractors don't have time for forums like this. For many, as I'm sure you find, it's not a source of new business.

Mr. Fudd -what would you call this picture reference... I know you have trouble with reading so this isn't necessarily for you. The private people who like to remain annonymous, that's who it's for. (I know why you named yourself FUDD, it's primarily what you spread. -ha! ha!)

click to enlarge --- this customer mentions they found me on what?

This picture requires you to "read". But in my experience --- you don't.

This person above never posted, he was simply "reading" from a thread in which I was posting at the time. You two knuckleheads, simply don't get it and I'm fine with that.

If there's one such reference? use your imagination of how many more there "could be" who choose not to leave a referral or review. There's alot of "private people" --- who choose to not be identified.

In your experience Mr. Fudd? Comparing "my experience" to yours --- ha ha.

It's no big deal to manage a rental property?

not for me, but problems do crop up so I have to handle those as well. Seeing is believing. Someone tried to flush paper towels at my rental.

I could have called the plumber for this, I chose not to. I'm a doer Mr. Fudd. For those reasons there is nothing "in your experience" that will make up for it.

I don't do plumbing for others... I only do HVAC that is what I am licensed to do and insured for.

The tile in the background of the above picture was installed by me as well.

By me... You want to hire a "doer" --- your choice. I work by myself, limit the amount of people you come in contact with... there's a pandemic raging about.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

I took a look at your Facebook page, where this comment came from. There were three comments, the other two were about your being available on short notice. As I said before, in my area, the best contractors are very busy and have waitlists.

I can't tell you about "other areas" -- I only work in my area.

It is often times extremely difficult to get people to leave reviews. (unless things don't work but then the reviews are negative) This guy / job -- in particular was different for a variety of reasons. Read the review? who writes a review like that -- he spells it out well does he not? Whether it's on FB, Google or whatever against a small smidgen of reviews? who cares? (reviews when bad can also be a difference of opinion, not fully understanding warranties what is covered, what isn't covered etc. and so on. But if you do a search for any of that? There's very little like one on yelp that was mostly a difference of opinion... someone who thinks they know more than me. I have said many times: If you think you know more than me, you don't need me. (I don't need to be told what to do, I prefer it that way. If you disagree with that: we're not going to be a good fit. -have fun.)

I'm not really going to go into the nuts and bolts of it more than what I say above... other than to say. You only know very little compared to what you "think" you know. (It's what you think you know, that just isn't so that gets you into trouble.)

I don't concentrate on being something I am not. I've got over half a century on this planet being me, I think I'll stick with that. Plus I know you don't like that... so there's the rub.

I had people decades earlier thinking they could also tell me what to do with my life. It's my career, my choice, my life. Why that makes you so upset to spend countless hours in a forum board belittling me about HVAC and ways in which I do things?

The only reason I can come up with is that you have regrets about your own life? OR ________________________. You tell us.

The whole reason I posted a picture of that review from FB? Because of what you said that posting on Houzz doesn't generate any work in HVAC service / repair / install... but there's more to it than just posting here. Of which you Mr. Fudd, have no clue.

You think I post here because of you and Mr. Ross? It's merely leaving bread crumbs for my already existing HVAC service & repair business. I had already been running my HVAC business nearly 8 years or so before I started posting here.

Folks that come here understand the rationality of "reading between the lines". Does that review not prove it?

I service the Katy, Texas area.

The Yelp comment I read seemed to describe in an uncomplimentary way your demeanor in speaking with two potential customers, the author and his neighbor.

Why do I post - to try to offer some balance to what sometimes seem to be extreme views, often very different from my own experiences with contractors and with two HVAC contractors for two different large projects in particular in the past few years.

"I service the Katy, Texasa area."

As often as you post your service area, I would at least expect you to spell Texas correctly.

Ah, anyone can do a typo. I do all the time and I excuse others who do and don't catch them. But I do try to reread what I've said and that's why my comments are often shown as having been "modified".

@Elmer J Fudd

I spent a number of years in Texas early in my career. I can only imagine what my native Texan colleagues would have remarked after seeing such an egregious error. Spell check isn't perfect on houzz.com, but it does flag "Texasa" as not being spelled correctly. If only it could flag the misinformation....

CRH, spell checkers are usually part of browsers and not websites.

@Elmer J Fudd,

Good to know. Whether it's my browser or houzz.com, the spelling of the word "Texasa" gets flagged as incorrect--or at least suspect. If one's primary mission is to post "I service the Katy, Texas area" in an effort to chum the water for potential clients, then the correct spelling of the state "Texas" would be important to that end.

The Yelp comment I read seemed to describe in an uncomplimentary way your demeanor in speaking with two potential customers, the author and his neighbor.

Well like this forum board as well as other areas of life you have to be able to read between the lines?

He said I was "condescending to his wife" --- he wasn't there on that visit, so he's taking things I said to her out of context.

He was recommending things to his neighbor that she couldn't afford let alone to be able to fix her system which in my opinion was a botched install from another contractor (maybe the builder?) , like he had at his house (not installed by me but another contractor) -- how the differences of opinion became about. He didn't like what his "previous" contractor was telling him which is the only reason I was over there.

What was he recommending? most of what this was about was a humidifier that wasn't working at his house. The needs of a humidifier for my location? Maybe two weeks to a month of use per year.

So the whole gist of condescending was related around a humidifier, yes. Because I told his wife that this climate is so humid that a "humidifier" is a waste of money for this climate. The guy in my mind didn't like looking like a ______ in his wife's head so his rebuttal after I left was to give me a bad review on yelp, that litteral means " a difference of opinion ".

The neighbor? she didn't have the money to do what I recommended to fix her system let alone what her neighbor wanted her to do. Her system had a plenum coil. What is a plenum coil? do you know? The problem was condensate leak. If not fixed properly, my company become liable for these kinds of things. They always blame the last guy that touched it.

So due to the install hackery, I wouldn't do anything more than recommend the Evap coil replacement which included proper condensate drainage of which she couldn't afford.

I service the Katy, Texas area. (sometimes my fat fingers get in the way... an honest mistake.)

no flags for mispelled words on Houzz.

Certain people call me and want to "tell" me what to do. So when I oppose them, because I view it as a waste? What is often a rebuttal to things like that -- they never call it like it is.

Same thing goes for UV lights, air scrubbers, smart thermostats via wifi or litterally tons and tons of garbage you don't need or telling me to do something that isn't going to "fix" the actual problem.

Like: moving a thermostat, installing sensors --- let's ignore the real problem and install a gimmick based gadget that won't work for this climate except maybe 2 weeks to a month of the year.

Reading "beteen" the lines? what is it worth? The gadget market is a billion dollar industry.

It's not what you know, it's what you know for sure that just isn't so...

"He said I was "condescending to his wife" --- he wasn't there on that visit, so he's taking things I said to her out of context."

No, I think he was sharing what she told him her feelings were about the interaction with you. That's the "context". The short comment seems to only deal with the individuals' reactions to your demeanor and seemed to have nothing to do with whatever the equipment or service needs were.

I get what you're saying about gimmicks, people trying to tell you your business or suggest they want things you don't agree with. All of us in client service roles have dealt with that. But we also all need to pay attention to how we come across, what impression we make, how we're viewed. Mediocre businesses and individuals with great customer communications and satisfaction are more successful than those at the extreme high end of capability and competence that are unpleasant to deal with.

No one wins all the battles. No matter how good or careful we try to be in our jobs, there will always be bad encounters, lost battles, undesired outcomes in dealing with people.

But back to the off-topic topic - there seem to be a number of HVAC contractors in your immediate area with positive comments and high ratings on Yelp. You're probably missing out on business by not being one of them because many people shop for providers on Yelp. Your time might be better spent working on improving your Yelp profile than on this forum. Just a suggestion.

No, I think he was sharing what she told him her feelings were about the interaction with you. That's the "context". The short comment seems to only deal with the individuals' reactions to your demeanor...

LOL. Who was there you or me? --- he posted the complaint, not her. The backstory before this visit, was the guy was having trouble with his AC unit at least a year 'before' - system not installed by me. He merely paid service call. I diagnosed the problem, he then used someone else to fix it. So? Now due to that, I am over there again? why? When they've chosen others to "fix" what I tell them is wrong with it? I am in this business for you to 'use' and not in fun ways? I don't think so.

So because this guy no longer has someone he can use and abuse he posts a negative review on yelp? You obivously don't read between the lines much do you?

I'm not in this business to be thrown under the bus. "you think" -- you simply don't know. The guy is a piece of work, much like you ironically enough.

No, yelp is mostly a place to complain without having to register to prove who you are. Then have competitors billl boards placed right next to your listing.

I've gotten calls off there that I believe I got via mistake, someone thought they were on someone else's listing and called me. That's really the only reason I am on there. Confusion.... I've learned here as well as other places that people don't really read.

On yelp? you're not ordering a pizza or looking for a dry cleaner -- so there's that too.

I post here of a morning when I drink my morning coffee. There are times of the year when I do my best to turn some 'work' away, because it becomes too much. Much of my work is previous repeat business. Which now is more than enough for me. But when the stars align and the call is beneficial to me as well as the caller, I take the call. (a paying call)

I am at a point in my career in which my 'diversificated' assets make more than what I need to live. So I have the ability to pick and choose what I wish to do 'sometimes'... it really depends on what is going on. The ultimate thing that decides is that I have a paying call.

Not every call I get is worthy of me to run it.

Things are completely different for me because I have no employee's / I own and run another business -- Home rental real estate business.

You've stated what you think you know in that regard from the public domain... it's still a profitable business. I'm a capitalist so spin that any way you want.... makes no difference to me.

I service the Katy, Texas area.

There are no lines here to read between. The comment is short and to the point.

It's rare for me to agree with you. On this one you're in the dark as usual. Condescending because > Getting work, getting paid for that work are two entirely different things. I'm not just after "work" -- I've got plenty of that already.

Simple as that really.

I flagged this post. Yall are ridiculous.

I flagged this post. Yall are ridiculous.

You got your work cut out for you... this is probably but one of a thousand similar posts.

These "jobs" or questions that peole post here are "in person, on location jobs". Because the internet provides some "on site" visualization via pictures it invites anyone who thinks they know -- the opportunity to discuss "certain possible fixes".

There are no real fixes, just possiblities. The rest outside of that is discussing why a pro like myself with a long history of fixing problems like this and more "in person".... along with arguments of how I should run my business.

Now why these people don't go out and start their own business using their own advice? Good question...