I wish I knew.

Predfern (Paul Redfern) who lives nearby grew Madam Bovary for a few years. He shared that it's thorny so I didn't buy it. Back in 2012 I did a search on those 2 roses and got reports that Juliette Greco is wimpy for cold-zone.

There is no rating in HMF for Madam Bovary nor Juliette Greco, mean less people report success with them. Predfern's most favorite rose for decades is Othello (just as thorny as Madam Bovary) ... so Austins are more hardy than Delbard roses.

In contrast, vigorous roses like Well-Being has ratings on HMF. The ratings on HMF is very useful in buying roses.

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/l.php?l=2.39755&tab=34

Thank you Straw , some of the delbard roses are so beautiful so i thought i’ll give them a try this year .. its sad that these are not winter hardy

There is a way to UP the hardiness if you grow them in pots (heavy on calcium and potassium) until their roots are thick & chunky & woody to survive zone 5 winter. Below are my 12 band-size own-roots (bought May 12 and June 11). Pic. taken July 14 (some less than 2 months old). I top them weekly with alfalfa meal (prior to heavy rain, plus some Garden Lime). In hot & dry with no rain, I use high potassium fertilizer Schultz soluble NPK 17-18-28, plus gypsum on top.

I put 3 of these "bands" into my heavy clay recently, and they become solid 3-gallons roots, will survive zone 5 winter since roots are no longer "wimpy cluster" but thick and hard. Both calcium and potassium harden roots for winter-survival. Most of these are from LongAgoRoses in NC which has a large selection of hardy Austin roses like the Prince, Othello, Tradescant, Mary Magdalene, Radio Times, etc. The shipping is cheap only $11 for 4 roses to my Chicago area:

Oh wow!! i bought a few kordes roses and tantau rose Ascot from longago roses this May and those are not as big as your roses. i cheked with Linda for the old Austins - Mayor of Caterbridge and cressida but she did not have them.Austins are really hardly in our zone 5b. i have othello in my wish list too.All i gave the roses where bone meal and kelp and fish liquid fertilizer every alternate week.i was under the assumption that roses like slighly acidic so never used garden lime until i saw your post in an older discussion and started to apply lime to the roses in the ground just before rain.thank tou for all your tips, i am learning a lot .

will you be planting these roses in the ground coming fall or would you continue to grow then in pots and have them in a sheltered place this winter ?

I got my Cressida from Hortico, Crazy. She is a beauty.

Thanks Sheila , i will order it next year from hortico

CrazyaboutRoses: What are the kordes roses and tantau rose Ascot you bought from Longago roses this May? Which ones are the most vigorous? Thank you. The wimpiest rose I bought this year is Felicia, died during our 2 weeks of heavy rain early July. I should had listened to HMF's rating that Felicia has BS issue and does best in sunny & dry climate.

I plant all the 12 bands and 8 gallons own-roots INTO MY heavy clay in late October .. If canes are not big enough, then I put plastic pots (bottom cut off) around the own-roots so rabbits don't eat them. Last year rabbits ate Wise Portia (band from High Country Roses), Pretty Lady rose (gallon from Roses Unlimmited) down to the crown, so they didn't survive winter.

This year husband got a truckload of free patio bricks from a friend, so I'll stack up those bricks to over 1 foot as border so rabbits can't eat young own-roots.

Raised bed doesn't help, I saw rabbits jumping on my 1 foot-tall raised bed. Fencing doesn't help .. back in 1996 I put over a foot fence around my rose garden, and bunnies crawled below the fence .. they dug up the dirt just to crawl under the fence.

Strawchicago:i got rose Ascot (Tantau) and the kordes fairy tale roses- Cinderella , caramella and golden .My Ascot got eaten by rabbits ( i had 4 bunnies in my yard in spring ) i thought that was gone but sometimes roses suprises us by surviving. all these are just 1 foot tall .i read that sprinkling sulphur keeps the rabbits away so i tried it around my newly planted roses and it worked . in fact i dont know if the bunnies hate the smell of sulphur i no longer saw them in the yard( my son was not happy about it).

Thank you for that great tip of sulfur to repel rabbits .. that would help to soften my rock hard alkaline clay too. How old is your son? My 18-year-daughter loves to watch the bunnies in the garden and she kept asking me to feed them carrots. I have a giant pile of compost of kitchen scraps plus lots of pears from the 2 pear-trees, but bunnies don't care for such.

Our bunnies don't eat pears, but will eat apples (deer won't eat pear or pear leaves either). Glad you wrote about trying raised beds and fencing...explains why/how they ate all my beans! So far they haven't eaten my roses, but they are so bad this year. STRAW...I'll try your nursery pot trick.

Zone 5 like mine have to cope with roses dying to the crown through winter, then sprout tiny shoots in spring just to have bunnies eat all the tiny shoots. For that reason I don't follow David Austin's tip of pruning hybrid teas down to 6 inch. in spring. I leave 1 foot of green cane on hybrid teas to prevent bunnies eating in spring.

I follow David Austin's tip of chopping off 18 inch cane after spring flush to prevent 2nd flush from being too tall, plus NO GRANULAR fertilizer after June 1 helps with shorter roses. Predfern who grew Madam Bovary mentioned that she threw tall thorny canes with blooms at the end with a baby-powder scent.

Strawchicago: My son is 10 . Mme Bovary is a thorny monster - thats not good … it might move to my shovel prune list

I would keep it since own-roots tend to shrink after a few years. Radio Times was a huge thorny monster throwing 5 feet canes, but I learn how to fertilize it to prevent octopus cane, and now I LOVE IT at 11th-year own root.

I use granular fertilizer on Radio Times in spring flush only, and after that it's high potassium/phosphorus and calcium for blooms. All my own-roots shrink in size as they age. Below Radio Times was taken this July 16, after our 2 weeks of heavy rain & tornado in Naperville. It's in 4 hrs. of sun. I used biochar & lime to neutralize the 3 to 6 inch. of rain per day in July:

May i ask what granular feed you use in Spring and what is the high potassium/ phosphorous feed that you use ?

In our cold zone 5, organics like blood meal and alfalfa meal are slow to work in cold spring, and we don't get warm temp. until June to activate these organics. For that reason I use chemical nitrogen in spring. Since 2012 I used Acid Lilly Miller NPK 10-5-4 since I have heavy clay, but recently it's re-formulated to Ultragreen for acid plants NPK 10-8-6, with 7% calcium, 0.8% magnesium, 8% sulfur and 2% iron, with 0.05 each of copper, manganese, and zinc. The first ingredient is limestone, second ingredient is ammonium sulfate (for fast green-up and fast nitrogen). the 8% sulfur is from elemental sulfur which is slow-released acid and needs to work into soil.

8% Sulfur is essential in spring since we have lots of rain that leach out sulfur. Sulfur is essential for growth and I want growth-spurt for roses pruned short by zone 5 winter. 7% of calcium is essential to grow solid canes.

I find that roses bloom best if I only use granular for spring, and SOLUBLE after spring flush. Our temp can get over 80 by early June, so SOLUBLE is best.

In hot & dry, I use sulfate of potash and gypsum to fix my alkaline tap water at pH 9 (1/2 TBS sulfate of potash and 1 TBS of gypsum per 1 gallon). This is best done in alternate watering since calcium overpowers potassium in absorption.

During acidic rain, I top-dress roses with a tiny amount of Garden lime, plus give it SOLUBLE sulfate of potash afterwards to force blooming. Sulfate of potash is expensive so I don't want rain to leach that out, best in a solution.

With tiny roses (one-cane wonder), I use SOLUBLE MG-for roses NPK 18-24-16. High phosphorus is for more branching and a fuller bush.

For tall roses that I don't want to get any taller, but to force blooming I use SOLUBLE MasterBlend with high trace elements and high potassium NPK 4-18-38. This has potassium chloride which is more soluble than sulfate of potash, but twice saltier.

After growing 140+ roses as own-roots, here's my tip for own-roots: give gypsum for wimpy & tiny & pale own-roots. Gypsum has 18 to 20% sulfur for fast growth and dark-green leaves. For aggressive own-roots (octopus canes) or dark-green leaves which are prone to blackspots: use lime as a source of calcium.

Thank you so much strawchicago that is so helpful . i put 1/4 cup of muriate of potash and super phosphate early june for my established roses did not know there was a sulphate of potash.just checked google for the difference of these 2 potash .looks like sulphate is better than muriate

Wow that is wild that they shrink...wonder why?

Maybe bunnies won't bother mine since all they get are old canes. They love fruit tree bark though!!

I have grown both Madame Bovary and Juliette Greco own root in my zone 5 dry Nebraska garden. Neither is particularly robustly hardy, and I've only been able to overwinter them in my protected south facing beds that are a virtual zone warmer. JG survived about 5 years but was never robust and MB is getting a second try in the warm bed after living about 2-3 years in an average spot.

They're both lovely but a bit finicky in my zone 5. Feeding and some winter protection will help, and if you have reliable snow cover either one will probably do fine for you. We rarely have reliable snow cover when we most need it as temps drop below zero.

Cynthia

Is your Juliette Greco as pretty as the RVR picture? The bloom looks like Jude The Obscure in a cream color...is that what they look like on the bush? What is the scent like and do they last in the vase? Sorry to ask so many questions, there is so little about it on HMF

Juliette Greco finally bloomed .. need to wait and see if she would be winter hardy to zone 5b

That is gorgeous!!!

Thank you cynthia ..we have snow cover here in illinois .. .i have 2 more delbards Madame figaro and souvenir de louis amade both own roots from roses unlimited and areverenceofroses.like you said all these delbards will need some winter protection

Madame Figaro

Souvenir de louis amade

Nippstress Nebraska z5 Cynthia...what do you mean by "finicky" just don't over winter? Is Juliette Greco healthy and good blooming mostly? Do you have pictures? Bush, bloom, anything?

Crazyaboutroses: Thank you for those amazing pics. How's the scent of Souvenir de louis Amade? Your roses have deep & vibrant colors, how do you fertilize them? thank you.

Thanks strawchiacgo , i gave alfalfa meal in spring and liquid alaska fish fertilizer and liquid kelp alternatively until june ,,,, when my rose numbers increased buying fish and kelp became expensive ( for me ) . i fertilized my established roses with muriate of potash and super phosphate -1/4 cup and bone meal for the smaller ones. you had advised sulphate of potash in one of the discussion and that would be much better than muriate so i will be trying it out next year. july i fertilised with 1/4 cup garden gypsum , garden lime and other than that just vegetable and fruit waste , coffee grinds , egg shells from the kitchen and manure ( store bought )

Thank you !! Your Souvenir de louis amade has the best color ever.

I love SdLA. Such gorgeous blooms

Wow...that is gorgeous! What is the scent like and where did you get it?

The scent is very nice but I wouldn’t call it a wafter. I got it from A Reverance for Roses and I have been very happy with it

WOW!!!! Those are STUNNING pictures!!! Thank you Oursteelers and Crazyabout!!

Such good information, Straw!!

On the other hand the first bloom on Madame Bovary is not that impressive but again its a very small plant now .

I love both pics. Thank you for posting your roses. Both colors are what I want in my garden. I was reading old posts in Houzz and someone posted about her dog lost an eye after running into a thorny roses bush, so I lean toward SMALL roses like your Juliette Greco.

I grew thorny Sharifa Asma (only 1 foot tall) for 10 years and that never poke me, but I got poke badly by bigger & thorny roses. I killed Lilian Austin after it stabbed me with its sharp-needle-like thorns when I dead-headed it. So thorny Othello is OUT of my buy-list for next year.

The thorny monsters i currently have in my garden are munstead wood, gertrude jerkyl and queen nefertiti .as for madame bovary i need to wait and see how she would turn out

I really like your JC photo! I'm really starting to love pastel colors.

Straw - Soeur Emanuelle is like that...it's always grabbing my clothes/hair.

Juliette Greco is amazing! She is on my list from RVR!

Julia Child isn't that throny, but she is always grabbing me. Noticed that some of my low-thorn roses have thorns on the leaves, so when I try to rub the rose slugs off, they bite me...wonder if there is a correlation of beauty and scent to thorniness?

Ann - yeah, that is annoying when they have thorns on the leaves...it's not something that one would expect.

My White Licorice standard is plagued with rose slugs spring and fall...but super thorny leaves so squishing them is painful! I got it on clearance for $10, but I think that although it was fun to try, I'm not really into standards. I have repotted it into a bigger container and hope it cuts down on the rose slugs, because it won't be struggling for water.

I got rose slugs before I started liming my garden .. use to get lots of rose-slugs in poor drainage clay that retained too much acidic rain-water. Now I dig deep for drainage ... we get week-long rain here, plus top roses with pelletized lime .. that dries out the surface so rose slug larvae can't thrive.

These are in pots. 1 has a drainage issue, but the White Licorice had fabulous drainage...I could try lime as that standard is grafted and I am guessing it is Dr. Huey and then something else.