Where do you live?

This may be a regional thing because I don't think that's typical where I am. My wife likes to figit with little things around the house and from time to time may go into an Ace Hardware or Home Depot location to get advice for what's needed and how to do it. More often than not she comes home pleased with the service and suggestions she received. When not, it would seem her task and the resulting purchase involved a project she understood in advance.

Wednesday, you teach people how to treat you. Accepting strange condescending behavior by catering to it simply allows it to continue- toward yourself and others. My self respect does not allow me to pretend to be incompetent when I am not. I have the economic power in that kind of relationship and I exercise it.

Thanks for telling me about See Jane Drill . I watched one video and I liked her and subscribed. Unfortunately, I'm not able to do many home repairs anymore, but I can certainly pass information on to others.

That attitude is VERY typical where I live.

I am very DIY, and have experienced a LOT of "oh just leave it to me little lady" crap. I am pretty upfront about what I have knowledge about. I have more tools than most of the men I know LOL. And to be honest, these days, most men, once they understand that, are pretty respectful of it and then become helpful. I am grateful however, that my BF was around when my shed was being built. That dude was waving off my comments/complaints about certain things, but once my BF made an appearance, the attitude changed. That does piss me off.

I had never heard of See Jane Drill but just watched 3 videos and am a convert! Leah is a wonderful teacher and now I need to repoint the brick siding on my house.

As a woman, you have to be versatile. "Own it" when that works, 'phantom man' when that works. Isn't this called "code switching" when it comes to talking?

Code switching between competent and incompetent, code switching to accommodate misogyny, not gonna happen.

No. I only mention my husband if I need a PO order to shop somewhere. His company will issue a PO Order for me, then I say it's cash n' carry. Or, HE calls a friend who has an account there, he tells them MY name and I use their companies discounts to shop there.

If you go to Home Depot in Palm Springs, you will see as many women shopping for tools and home repair items as you do men. No one there treats women any differently from men, and so I agree with Elmer that it must be a regional thing.

Besides Leah at See Jane Drill---

Another excellent video source is Richard McMurray, DFW Crown Moulding. On YouTube as 'Finish Carpentry TV'.

A favorite, too, is 'Essential Craftsman' (YouTube channel). Scott Wadsworth. Carpentry, blacksmithing, etc. (He has a wonderful voice.)

I have watched many YouTube videos to learn how to make a repair or an improvement.

I have to say that I haven't noticed the attitudes that the OP describes in the videos I have seen.

I also have not run into condescension in Home Depot, Lowes, or my late-lamented locally owned hardware store. I have received great help and advice every time and come away grateful that the stores seem to take pains to be sure that the departments are staffed with people who know what they are talking about.

But, I definitely have run into issues at car shops and dealers - recently, too - trying to tell me that I need this or that repair (at a nice cost) when I know that I don't.

When I remodeled my kitchen also, a couple of the workmen tended to talk down to me, and tried to pass some inadequate work - but they might do that to a guy that they think doesn't know anything about the job as well. They were surprised to find that I did know (having done my homework.)

I had to check the date of the post, thinking it must be from the ancient past. It feels like how some women must’ve felt in the 70’s. I dont experience the things you do in hardware stores, though that doesnt discount your experience.

why do you not let people know you are shopping for your own plumbing parts? what would happen if you did? I dont even understand this. If you do experience negativity being a diy female, I hope you can rise to the occasion and represent females by not faking anything, being direct, confident, and working towards the goal of gaining respect for all of us.

(having done my homework.)

^ This.

I had a plumber's assistant one time try to tell me that I needed a very expensive job that required digging up the front yard. I had already researched and knew what needed to be done, used another plumber and I think the bill was a couple hundred.

There is a lot of competition out there, if someone talks to me in a demeaning manner whether it is because I am a woman, or a senior, I'll go somewhere else.

Wednesday, I love what your wrote and have no doubt many women have similar experiences. I avoid most DIY now and just hire it done, but have definitely felt ignored or patronized when venturing into stores where the majority of shoppers are men, esp those catering to those in the "trades." I have sometimes found pros shopping in those stores to be helpful, however, if I venture to ask a question in a department he obviously knows his way around.

And I agree with raee about shopping for cars and repairs. I've even sought out dealers who manage to hire and retain women sales people and they are few and far between. I think that is an indication of the difficulty women can still have in many male dominated environments.

Acting on her own and without my involvement or presence, my wife has bought 2 of our last 3 cars. She likes to do it and she does a good job of it. I'd have no problem doing it myself but I'm happy to step aside. She also handles maintenance, the communication/contact with the shops for her car, on her own and a few times has done the same for mine. Same thing, I'm happy to step aside.

I think some of you make your minds up in advance about what's going to happen and bring your attitudes along with you for these incidents. You see what you want to see, whether it's there or not. I'm not discounting the realities of maybe even frequent encounters with oafs in your life but to generalize so broadly says more about you than about your experiences.

zalco has given good advice above about what to do to manage your interactions with others, which applies equally to dealing with men as with women. Read and reread it to learn how to control your experiences.

I don't have a phantom man and have never experienced any issues purchasing items for my home. When my husband was alive he did all our repairs but I was his helper and learned a lot. I do have some sons for help if something is too difficult for me

Thanks, once again, for mansplaining women's experiences!

I'm sure I've had experiences before but don't remember them. My daughter and I were in Lowes last year looking at shelving. I asked one man there some questions and he talked to us for a few minutes. After he left my daughter made the comment that she "liked how he was mansplaining" everything to us. I didn't even notice.

I go to the hardware stores often, never encountered that treatment.

I would shut them down immediately also.

Elmer, if you had left out your second paragraph and ended the third after the words 'good advice', you wouldn't have gotten the responses you did. I apologize for 'womansplaining', but you forced me into it. :-)

I have never really experiences condescension, but I have experiences attempted swindling by men because I am a woman. Poor fellers do not know that my brother in law is a contractor, and I used to work part time with him and so know what certain things should cost, and when they are trying to charge me 3 times that amount. For the most part I get him to do all repairs, but he is very very busy and cant always get to it. I use his recommendations or drop his name to make sure I am not getting bamboozled. If I ask for help doing something myself, I do not get offended if they come off a bit condescending. They know something I do not, and I need their knowledge. Do not ask for help if you know everything.

It's why I do not do anything car repair related. SO does it. Anything from a simple oil change to a new AC or alternator, or new tires I let him handle it. I used to take it to the dealership, where of course they would always present me with a list of emergency, costly, can't wait repairs to be done that I always declined. I would say "if you give me a copy of that, I will have my dad look it over and advise me." Then all of a sudden the repairs were not so urgent. Of course. SO, turns out, has a friend that works in the repair shop of that dealership and he told us to NEVER take that seriously, that they absolutely will try to make you pay for repairs that you don't need, sometimes even fabricating them. They will keep your car for an appropriate amount of time, doing no work and will charge you for a litany of things. And yes, the impression is that women, particularly younger women, will fall for that because they are scared that their car will die in the middle of the road or something, And I can believe that. They always sounded SO concerned when they were trying to sell me these repairs, until I brought my dad up. Funny thing is, my dad is a sucker and trusts them completely, and will pay for stupid things like that. Me, not so much. And SO, absolutely not. His thing is cars. Race cars, but cars.

I have no desire to be a handy gal. I will do small things. For example, I changed the heating element in our water heater. But when it was time to replace the whole water heater, I called a pro.

I like the comments that Wednesday Morning made in regards to women bringing a different approach to problem solving on projects because of experience gained in what have been considered traditional female roles.

I am not even beyound looking for something from the kitchen drawer to use.

Me, too. The kitchen drawers are my go-to's when I'm having to improvise a solution, a tool, etc. Actually have a carbon steel commercial grade spatula that lives in the garden cabinet. I use it when I'm setting flagstones in sand. I've use it so much for that task that I consider it an indispensable tool. I've used my Kitchen Aid mixer to mix paint. Also will grab one of the back up immersion blenders for the same chore. Silicone spatula to clean out/ scrape down paint cans and drywall mud... Grabbed the squeeqee from my shower when I needed to skim coat a section of wall. Full sheet pans get pressed into service when transplanting seedlings...

"I apologize for 'womansplaining', but you forced me into it. :-).

cyn427, that's an offensive word you used on yourself, no need to. It's offensive with either form referring to either gender. I never use it, it's patently intended to be contemptuous. Some aren't smart enough to realize how widely that's understood to be the case. Not a masked insult, just an insult.

I'm not offended by your comment to me, no apology needed.

The true insult is men thinking they can speak for women and women's experiences, or condescend to women because...well, they think their own experiences and perspectives are superior. Pointing out mansplaining isn't the insult; mansplaining IS the insult to women.

No, I don't feel the need to sublimate that I am capable of doing anything a man can do. I can't hope to be treated as an equal, if I don't act like an equal. If that makes sense. To their credit, I find the help at stores less condescending than in the past.

A Woman is smart enough to realize that "If it ain't broke, don't fix it".

I guess we all have different experiences. I live in Australia, which has a reputation as a macho society. The biggest hardware chain here employs a lot of men and women, many of them with trade qualifications. Haven't had an issue at all with either the male or female staff: they seem to accept it as a given that women will buy and use plumbing fixtures, decking oil and power tools.

Interestingly, when Lowe's tried to break into the hardware market via a partnership here with a major supermarket chain, they failed dismally. Just couldn't get the culture, or the simple notion that you don't supply seedlings in the Southern Hemisphere in the same month you do it in the Northern. The Aussie partners pulled the plug and wrote off something like $5 billion. Which just goes to show, you need to know your market. And that means, don’t underestimate women. 😁

Being that I do things differently than a man would do them and often in an unconventional manner, the questions I have about which doo dad to buy or what will work are often questioned.

So, I try not to engage others so that I dont have to explain.

I find that I am viewed as being less and less competent the older that I get.

As a gray headed older woman, I get no respect. At least when i was younger I would often be wearing some overalls and my hand were are almost always full of something that I am working on, so I felt a bit more empowered, my hair was dark and full and I filled out the overalls in all the right places.

I recently tore out a downstairs shower and replaced the shower base, hung cement boardl and tiled the entire shower, all by myself. ALL by myself!!! I made a few mistakes as it was my first and last shower redo. Still, not bad for a grey headed granny!

If you have never felt that lack of respect, count youself lucky.

Getting to the hardware store and walking out with what i need is the objective. I am shopping for something I need to get the job done , not to change or challenge the hostile male attitudes. I am much too busy getting it all done. i have no time or energy to campaign for them to change.

Hubs is scarry with a tool in his hand and all of the home upkeep and repairs are entirely up to me. It has always been this way for over a century that we have been together. I have always been the "guy", secretly. I just dont look like it on the outside.

I have had guys openly question me and ask me "Are you doing this youself?" (add attittiude to that)".

Jemdandy, my hubs is one who will refuse to admit that anything ever needs to be done to anything, ever! He refuses to recognize broken and in need of repair. He can walk through a door with a loose door knob until the darned thing just falls off before he wil get a screwdriver and tighten it back up. Then, he is likely to strip the screws. His approach is brute force, not a careful assessment of the situation to see what the problem is. But he is older now and is not as dependable as he once was to lend that body strength to the situation.

We are both getting older and I am seeking to eliminate, streamline and keep it simple as possible.

I grew up in a family where we all did for ourselves what needed to be done, for the most part. My dad was a great builder and my mom was right there with him, one hand on the baby and the other with a hammer. Together they built at least three houses in my lifetime, only hiring out something like electrical wiring and such. He also built boats of all kinds.

I always wanted to build my own small structure, but it wont happen now.

I also have had two babies, cooked almost everything that my family ate, painted everything that ever got painted, put up sheet rock, upkept the outside yards, cleaned and organized the garage and everything in the house. He went out to work and earned a living for us and I kept the home fires burning, almost literally.

I have been my own "guy" for a long time. Sometimes it is nice to have a six pack of these guys come with their toolbelts and just do it. I just dont have as much physical stamina as I used to.

ci-lantro, the opposite is true, also, that I have tools in my kitchen and sewing room that were intended for construction purposes. And, my mixing bowl has seen other than flour and yeast, at times.

ci-lantro, the opposite is true, also, that I have tools in my kitchen and sewing room that were intended for construction purposes

For sure. The microplane is a great example of that. Started out as a rasp for woodworkers.

ie: Years ago: My husband once took an alternator to "2" auto parts stores to get tested. They BOTH said it was bad. I took it to the college to the shop/class lab...and it tested fine....the alternator belt was loose. It wasn't a man or woman thing...it was an "I want your money" thang!

Grabbed a steak knife to square up a small drywall hole (less than 1") so I could plug & patch it it this morning.

Yeh, it needed the drywall plug because it has to support a hollow wall anchor.

I love DIY home improvements. I'm totally self-taught (with the help of YouTube). I may be doing some things the wrong way, but if it comes out right in the end, it's okay. Lately I've experienced the joy (not) of replacing kitchen cabinet hinges. My favorite thing is changing interior door hardware.

I haven't experienced a condescending or patronizing attitude from either big box or local hardware stores. I would shop somewhere else if I did.

Every day I wish I could have taken wood shop in high school.

ci-lantro, you go girl! I have done the same thing with an old steak knife. Those serrated edges are good for cutting small pieces of wall board. Matter of fact, I used to keep one in my tool box until the recent purge where anything that was not of extreme importance got eliminated.

My metal food chopper/scrapper makes an excellent tool to smooth dry wall mud when doing small repairs.

My dad taught me to "dimple" the wall board around a nail hole to create a shallow indention that fills with no rough edges. Every time I do that, I hear his voice in my head.

After spending most of the first half of this year in a frenzy to patch and repair and refresh the house to sell, I absolutley forbid for anything to be attached to any wall without my permission. We decided to stay put and I dont care if my walls are completely bare of anything. I hesitate to put anything on any wall because it will leave a legacy of a flaw behind without really careful patching. Since I am the one doing all the patching, I am the one who has the last word on it.

Actually, I like my bare walls. I dont like visual clutter, or any clutter. And, I have had my fill of patching walls. No more! Dont even think about it!!!!

Bunny, I am not going to go further than the short drive to the local HOme Depot. It is not as if there are just a couple of guys in there that have an attitude. It is more of a pervasive and underlying attitude that is not only at this one venue that does not differ in quality from the Lowes that is much further away. There are no hardware stores around anymore. If you do happen to have one in your town, you are among only a few. The big box home stores dominate.

In my area the HD has hired quite a few more women. That is in the last decade. But it is those older guys, mostly, that come from the trades that have the best knowledge. And, there are some that are very helpful and pleasant to deal with. Then, there are THOSE guys.

I find fewer and fewer sales peole in the store that have any real knowledge, as the hiring practices seem to have changed.

I tried to shop for countertops and the sales person had no idea how to even use th computer to find the price. And, to make matters worse, she asked her co worker who also had no idea how to give a rough estimate. I dont think that HD puts much effort into training employees. They surely dont inspire confidence. Neither of these two people knew much of anything about what they were in charge of.

when i was setting up my 75 gallon reef aquarium, i had a list of plumbing supplies that i needed. i took the list to home depot and had to ask one of the guys where to find a few of the things i needed.

of course, he just had to know what i was doing and when i told him, he wanted to know why i needed this or why i needed that. it's was beyond annoying. i knew exactly what i was doing and what i needed, i simply could find it.

of course, he had a few suggestions that he insisted would work better but i knew that anything with copper in it would kill every living thing i had planned to add to my tank. i started to explain this to him and he looked at me like i was green cheese. i finally asked him if he had ever set up his own reef tank. when he said no, i told him that was pretty obvious and if he couldn't simply point me to the right isle, i'd leave everything i already had in my cart and go elsewhere.

I've had similar experiences in fabric stores in Austin, in which I would be the only man in the store. I would ask for very specific fabrics, such as voile or lawn, and some of the women in the store would not even know what those were, and they still gave me attitude. I've not had that problem in California, and I certainly did not have it in Italy, where there were mostly men in the fabric stores that I went to there. It Italy, they treated me like a was a regular customer and even asked if I had been in the store a couple of weeks earlier.

It is definitely a regional thing, from my experience, but it is also a personal thing, in that there are some people working in stores that should really have a different job.

Another sexist problem I had was when I was taking a textiles class at UT Austin. This class had about 200 women and maybe five men, and the professor really did not like having men in the class at all. She would say things like "Write this down and put it in your purse," or "Tell your boyfriends to pick you an hour late on Wednesday because we will be having..." The lesbians in the class especially did not like being told this. They would say, "I'll have my girlfriend pick me up..."

Lars, if you go into a fabric store today and ask for those types of fabric, the employees will likely have no idea what you are talking about, either. That is, if you even have a fabric store. Not only are those old fabric choices gone for the most part, the people who have a iiving memory of them are no longer working at the fabric store.

I visited southern Italy a few years ago and there were only a couple of fabric stores that I saw. There seems to be a different thing, entirely, going on in Italy. I suspect that they sell mostly with the intent that it is not home sewing that the fabrics are used for. Rather the fabric is being purchased to be sewn by a seamstress or tailor. I dont like that kind of fabric shopping, at all. And, yes it is a much more formal way of buying fabric and it is largely men in those stores

.

That is a long way from when Jessie, May , and Sally used to roll off yards of fabric for you at the local fabric store and the friendly banter about how much yardage you should buy and how you sewed up your sons halloween costume. Jessie, May, and Sally are probably gone as well. Yes, they probably did view you with a bit of wonder at why you were there. I never saw very many men in a fabric store. Usually,if they come in, they are looking for some utilitarian thing that may, or may not be, avaialble in a fabric store, but someone suggested that they look there for it. If you feel that they noted your presence, you are probably right. They probably did since it was a rare sight in most fabric stores to see anything but a bored husband waiting for his wife to pick up a couple yards of quilt backing and some buttons.

Count yourself lucky if you stil have a fabric store to walk into, no matter if they wonder why you are there and what is that fabric that they have never heard of.

Just this past weekend my husband and I went into our local Rockler woodworking store looking for a lathe stand that would fit MY lathe. My husband wandered off, he is not handy and this was my thing. While discussing sizing and whether the available stands would fit, the older gentleman who was helping me asked if my husband could drill a few holes for me if the stand needed adjustment.

I looked him straight in the eye and, pleasantly, asked why he thought I would need my husband to drill a hole for me. I was pleasantly surprised when he looked taken aback and said "well that was a sexist thing to say wasn't it?" I said yes, yes it was. He very nicely apologized and we continued with our conversation. I did end up buying a lathe stand from him, that did not require modification :)

I think it's taking awhile for attitudes to change, but I was encouraged by the exchange.

"I think it's taking awhile for attitudes to change"

As I and others have said, this seems to vary by circumstance and regional area. There are places and locales where attitudes about various things "changed" a long time ago, for the better of course, and other places where there should have been essential changes made long ago but there haven't been. There are too many examples to cite, most of them quite obvious and well known.

Anne Rockler Jackson, daughter of the founder of Rockler Woodworking, essentially built Rockler into what it is today. She was CEO for 30 years.

https://tcbmag.com/honors/ann-rockler-jackson/

https://www.bizjournals.com/twincities/news/2015/06/30/rockler-names-new-ceo-to-lead-medina-based.html?utm_campaign=Feed%3A%2Bindustry_1

Chadoe, I have heard, and read that advice to have your husband do this or that for you many times.

I also hear it from women, themselves, when they will write or say how they are going to get their husbands to do this or that . Maybe they have husbands who really do those things. Lucky them! If that is who your husband is, by all means, get him to do it. I would. But, not all of us have tool belt ready male partners.

What really takes me aback is when a woman has to ask her husband's permission to buy something. Sure, big expenses from a household budget oftne involve an agreement.

Even more perplexing is when a woman will expect husband to buy her something as a gift that she really needs to buy for herself....such as a sewing machine, or knitting supplies, or clothes.

This wife, mother, and woman does as much as I can by myself. That sometimes means having to figure a strategy to do it differently because I lack the upper body strength. I have been known to improvise greatly.

Sometimes he questions how I did this or that without his help and I remind him that I have been improvising for many years to get things done and could not always wait for him to be there to lend a strong back to it. So I had to find a way to do it for myself. I have become quite adept at it.

For the sake of honesty I will admit that I do not much like having this responsibility and there have been many times when I say that I would sell my body for a strong man with a belt full of tools that he knows how to use. However, at my age, that man would probably only come armed with a bunch of Command stick ups or something to spray on it, as I am too old to be the attraction that I once was. But, there was a time!!!

I dont think that it is regional. I think it is more societal.

I live in a area of high income, high education and a high level of sophistication and have been here for almost 40 years. It is not as if these experiences take place in some social backwater that is stuck in the 50's.

Lars, I dont understand why you question my experiences when you have had some parallel ones.

One thing that I have found is that HD has hired a lot of women in the last decade. Sure there must be some reason for that, probably many reasons. But, the profile of the store staff has definetly changed at my local store.

HD was to have employed a customer service experience that was built so that the customer who had a question about a product or needed to know where it was in the store could digitally access a reference in some place like India, for instance, where a customer service rep could answer your questions. Sound familiar? I read about it in some consumer news but never saw it implimented in my local store. That did not sound like a good strategy for this kind of business. Maybe the corp realized it. I have no idea.

But, I do know that HD has made an effort to be more self serve in the recent past.

I dont know how much, if any, training is given to new hires, but unless there is some familiarity with the tools of the trade, how can these new hires be of much use for reference? I dont see that just knowing where things are in the store is the same as having product knowledge. It seems that product knowledge would be quite complicated for so many of these things.

I suppose that there are reasons why someone from the trades would want to work retail, but they are never going to make near the income advising customers about plumbing fittings as they would if you were paying them to do work in your home.

The abosulte best was an older guy who used to work with the plumbing parts. He was a font of knowledge. He was bit of a no nonsense kind of a guy, but the was very helpful. He has been gone for a long time.

The other day I saw an older guy working in the store and he looked like what he was doing was physically difficult for him to do. It was rather sad and I wondered if this was his choice or a neccessity for him.

if you,as a woman, have never encountered attitude when shopping for plumbing parts or small fittings, count yourself fortunate.

I never thought that I could do anything that a man can do. I never had the upper body strength that many men have. I cant hold a power saw as steady as a man and I cant handle tall ladders like a strong man can. I also dont have a slew of buddies to come and help that bring all their own tools.

As a woman, I have had to improvise and invent and do things a bit differently, usually all by myself. Right now my hand has a pulled muscle from the other day when I had to put some serious downward pressure on a screw head to keep from stripping the screw., and from an awkward angle. Now, I cant knit!

It hurts to hold my knitting needles.

I really like Leah from See Jane Drill. She doesnt talk down to you and she explains things so well. I am going to try her method for coping a piece of trim. It just looks like a nice skill to have and I love to learn technique.

I usually don't get talked down to when I go looking for whatever. I grew up in a diy family. I usually know enough to keep myself out of trouble. What I find is fewer men know how to use tools and do projects around the house.

I do find once in a while that we will have workmen try to gouge when they make a bid to fix something on the house. Imo, that is company suicide. I have Nextdoor and Facebook. I try to do my research before bringing someone in. That means I have a basic idea of cost and a recommendation on who to use before I call. We had someone in to look at the drywall damage from the February freeze. Either they are gouging or they don't want the job.

I do not question your experiences at all - I simply think that you are more likely to have those experiences in one geographical region than in another - that is my own personal experience. I could definitely understand your having those experiences in Texas, but I don't think you would have the same experiences in San Francisco, Palm Springs, or even West L.A.

I am able to go to great fabric stores in West L.A., where half of the employees are men, and everyone in the store is very knowledgeable about fabrics, and they can quickly find for me what I ask for or else let me know that they do not have it at the moment.

I went through severe culture shock when I moved back to Texas (temporarily) from San Francisco, and a lot of it was because of sexist attitudes in Texas that were absent in San Francisco. I also noticed a huge difference from NYC to upstate New York when I visited my brother in Albany. I found Albany to be very provincial and boring compared to Manhattan. Yes, Albany is much smaller, but Palm Springs is also much smaller than Los Angeles, and I do not notice the same cultural differences here that I noticed between Albany and NYC.

Geographical location matters. It's why people move from one location to another.

I dont think that many would disagree that there is a demographic social difference between living in Lubbock as opposed to Palm Springs.

I dont live in Albany or Lubbock or or any place like that. I live in the modern cosmopolitian burbs in the mid Atlantic.

It is changing, though at places like the Home Depot. Instead of finding older tradesmen who I find to be often dismissive, I find fewer sales people there that know much of anything.

I realize that the stores are not meant to be a place where you go to ask how to do something. They are about selling product, not professional advice or expertise. But, it is nice to have someone there to guide you to the plumbing parts that fit each other.

I find that I ask less and less for any help with anything.

Your area can't be quite as "cosmopolitan" as you may think it is with your having so many encounters with people with this and likely many other very out-of-date attitudes. I don't live in the same areas as Lars does but in the same state and where I spend my time is much the same as he describes. I've travelled all over the US for business and pleasure and worked with colleagues and others in those very same locations. My experience is that there very much is a regional and even locally varying distribution of attitudes about many things. "Modern" people with modern attitudes seem to be more numerous in some areas and completely absent in others. I remember once having dealings with a couple of people in a somewhat suburban area of Chicago, maybe 20 miles out of town, and the people had the perspectives and understanding of perhaps residents of a remote small town in North Dakota. To call them "country bumpkins" would be a needless insult to country bumpkins.