Is this an efficient, acceptable kitchen layout?
Sorry in advance about the length of this post. I am trying to include all the info that is recommended in Beuhl’s FAQ.
We need to replace several of our appliances, and we have decided to rework our layout instead of a simple 1:1 swap. The appliances are undersized without room in the current layout to simply replace with bigger versions.
Here’s the empty layout. Written measurements include window and door trim even though the drawing itself does not. I forgot to label it, but the cased opening on the right-hand wall above the pantry leads to the family room.
Here’s the current layout.
Things we don’t like about current layout:
- Oven. It is only 27” and doesn’t work very well.
- Cooktop. I hate having it on the peninsula, and the cabinet underneath is mostly taken up with the downdraft ductwork. For whatever reason, I end up doing most of my prep in that little sliver of counter between the fridge and cooktop. Not ideal.
- Refrigerator. Undersized for our family of 6, and the single door blocks the passageway when open because of its position relative to the peninsula. Mostly an issue when we’re trying to put groceries away and have the door open for longer than usual.
Things that I like, or at least don’t mind, about the current layout:
- Size. I cook from-scratch meals daily, but I am a solo cook. There are other people coming and going, of course, but usually just to retrieve a cup or some such, not to help substantially with the meal.
- Pantry. It’s a bit out of the way, but it’s fine. I usually pull out the ingredients I need before I start cooking and am not going back and forth all the time. People can also get their own snacks without interfering with the work zone (why they’re getting snacks when I am clearly almost done with dinner is a different issue). It’s a good size, too.
- Dishwasher. Most of my bigger items are stored in the blind cabinet immediately adjacent to the dishwasher. As a result, I have to unload those items onto the counter first, then close the dishwasher to put them in the cabinet. On the other hand, most of my bulky stuff gets hand-washed anyway. My flatware is stored in the drawers of that same cabinet, which is very easy to unload without even having to pivot.
- Cabinet on breakfast room side. I store the kids’ board games and coloring stuff in this cabinet for easy access.
- Eat-in. We eat exclusively in the kitchen (and the dining room a few times a year), so seating is a must.
- Closed concept. No desire to open it up to the adjacent family room. I really don’t want to know what they’re doing out there.
About us and our house:
- Family of six – four kids ages 4-11, plus my husband and myself. I cook from scratch daily, but I am the only cook. Everyone helps with cleaning up afterward.
- Modest middle-class neighborhood in the suburbs. 1980s neighborhood, well-kept but not extensively renovated. A huge kitchen would be an aberration here. I could be swayed into combining the kitchen and breakfast room, but it would have to be a really compelling argument with lots of added benefits.
- We don’t entertain or have parties, and we are past the point of deluding ourselves that we might someday become that type of people.
- Crawl-space foundation, so relatively easy access to plumbing and electrical.
- I am open to changing/moving windows, but it would probably need to be completed in a future phase. Planning around that future change is fine, though. I don’t care if the sink is off-center or even under the window at all. It faces north-ish (and is under a porch overhang besides) so it doesn’t get direct sunlight.
- We want standard size appliances – 30” range, 24” dishwasher (keeping existing), 36” French-door fridge (counter-depth if absolutely necessary, but we could use the full capacity of a standard depth). We don’t need wall ovens. We have a microwave but don’t use it much.
- Single basin sink
- We are going to be working with Ikea cabinets, so no 21”, 27”, or 33” sizes. Technically they have a 21” but not with drawers. And of course, drawers are preferred wherever possible.
- We park in the garage and bring groceries in through the garage door. Kids don’t really use that door much. The laundry room is a dead end.
-We don't want to renovate the entire first floor, we just want a functional kitchen. Yeah, I know the half bath would be better placed elsewhere, but it's not going to happen any time soon.
Here’s a first stab at what I could do. I have left off upper cabinets for clarity. 2” filler pieces at corners and edges.
One of the 18” cabinets between the sink and the DW would be a trash pullout so you could stand at the sink and have the cabinet and the dishwasher open at the same time. Flatware and dishes would then go in the other 18” cabinet, which could also be open at the same time as the DW for easy unloading.
I still have a bit of a traffic jam with the fridge, but swapping the fridge and cabinet and using a French door model helps somewhat. Counter depth would add an additional 5” of circulation space.
I know some would consider the counter overhang redundant with the kitchen table there, but I really think we would use both in equal measure. If I eliminated the overhang I could shift the peninsula even further into the breakfast room and free up even more space in front of the fridge.
Any other creative solutions I can try?
Comments (40)
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Make my kitchen more efficient
Comments (11)"... I don't want to get into moving plumbing/gas/etc. around ..." "My wish list: ... Increase counter space between sink and stove. ..." If you aren't willing to move the plumbing and gas, that means the sink and range cannot move. It's impossible to increase the space b/w them if you're not willing to move them! You're concerned about cost...I understand. However, unless you're on a slab, it will probably cost you more to open up the wall than it will to move plumbing and gas. If the layout really is an issue and the kitchen is difficult to work in, then I think you should seriously consider either waiting to redo your kitchen until you can afford to do it all or accept the kitchen for what it is and realize you're probably not going to be able to do much with it if you're not willing to move things around. Another option would be to wait on items that can be done later and use the money to fix the things that can't be done later...the "bones" of the kitchen. What can be done later? Appliances, if they work right now...especially if you plan to use "standard" size appliances like a 24" DW or 36" refrigerator or 30" range (yes, I know you don't plan to replace the range & refrigerator, I just mentioned them b/c I wanted to mention the "standard"/most commonly used sizes) Backsplash Extras like decorative doors on the exposed backs/sides of cabinets Counters...if you're willing to put very inexpensive ones in now. Personally, I would not do this b/c I wouldn't want to pay for two counters, even if the first is very inexpensive, but it's something to think about. What cannot be done later w/o great expense (these are the "bones" of the kitchen)? Layout Cabinets Counters (to fit the cabinets) Floor Plumbing & gas move (to fix the layout) BTW...that counterspace b/w the range & refrigerator may become more useful if you put your replacement MW on that counter. The most expensive component of a kitchen remodel is the cabinets and, if an expensive material, the counters. Just replacing cabinets b/c you don't want to spend money on moving plumbing & gas for a more functional layout is not, IMHO, wise if the layout is bothering you. Regardless of your decision, a 2-D drawing w/measurements like Plllog mentioned will help me at least!...See MoreKitchen Ergonomics - Why do we accept bad design?
Comments (38)Thanks to the OP for starting this thread. Many of our decisions were based on meeting the challenges of my back and feet and of course lack of vertical stature! Many of our decisions have turned out well: the raised DW, cork floor, FD frig and shallow sinks. Unfortunately some of them I wish I could go back and fix with the advantage of hindsight: buying the matching MW instead of making a shelf and placing a countertop one in and the faucets at the prep sink. In hindsight both of those decisions happened because of having to meet someone else's deadline and not ours. So, I really encourage those of you are doing your design phase to really think thru every detail now because it is really hard to change them afterwards. I do want to encourage people to have the raised DW. Ours is at the end of run partially behind a wall. We have a shallow drawer underneath it which is great for flat dishes. The counterspace on top is where dirty dishes wait their turn and is backup space for when we are doing lots of dishes by hand. Our frig is at the other end of the kitchen from the MW which is something that I debated on but figured I could work with. It does mean more walking while making things but since I was determined to have my raised DW and the frig not visible as you walk in the house... It is interesting to read what considerations we all have had as we design our kitchens for being used as kitchens. I had thought about making it more of eat in nook type of kitchen but decided I wanted the extra prep space instead. I also believe as others have demonstrated that you can have a functional and beautiful kitchen at the same time. It just takes some thought and planning which is why I guess builders don't want to take the time and thus money to do that. I haven't cooked barefoot but I do find the cork floor is much easier on my back than our previous tile floor was. And one of these days DH will finally take the rest of our pictures so I can post on the FKB!...See MoreAccepting critiques of my kitchen plan (complete with lego model)
Comments (28)Thanks again for all the feedback. While I wish everyone just loved the plan (especially after I've paid the KD for them and am already meeting the cabinetmaker tomorrow!), it's good to get all the feedback. Better to flush out all these things and be prepared than have a potential problem down the road. Nards, have a lot of thinking to do tonight. mindstorm - The Bluestar will vent up, one 90 degree turn across the ceiling, and straight out the wall. Not as efficient as straight out the wall or straight up, but one turn should be ok, no? What counts as a "veritable highway"? It's 6 feet between the Bluestar and the sink, and I measured it out in steps - turn, 2 steps and I'm at the sink. Is that really dangerous? The windows can't be moved without severely impacting the budget, so there really isn't room on that exterior wall for both the sink and the range. That window on the left is only 23" off the ground, which is way too low for a counter or any appliances. rhome410 - We always move the appliances out from the wall when we move them because I don't like the steam coming up and hitting the upper cabinets. The Kitchenaid might move to the baking counter, and it's possible we'll move some to the Hafele if it's too crowded. I guess I didn't really care about that counter space right next to the fridge and just thought that with the undercabinet lights, there would be enough light? dedtired - No holes yet, but likely by the end of this project! granite-girl - Interesting idea to swap the cabinets next to the range, and at least an idea that doesn't require me to start back at ground zero! The one thing is that the cabinet on the right is a little different in that the door opens on the side facing the doorway so that there's a bigger door and easier to get into. But I'd give that up if it meant for a better flow. growlery - I don't quite understand the bolster - we're planning on a small bolster on top of the chair cushions. There still has to be a solid bench for people to sit on, right? plllog - I just measured that spot when I got home, and it's not big enough even for a cab-depth fridge without changing the window, which isn't an option. I think I could even do without any table for a while - trestle table sounds like it's definitely out. I don't mind the idea of a cafe table, but is a round table with rectangular seating strange? remodelfla - I don't have the sample door yet, but will post when I have them. We're currently planning on 2.25" rails/stiles, but we did also consider 3". Since none of our doors are overly large, I think we might stick with 2.25". Before we decided on a custom cabinetmaker, I saw some samples at KitchenSync of Ultracraft (but with red birch, there's no plywood box option) and Crystal by Quest. lisa_a - I want a commission if they start this! Then I'd be able to afford more for my kitchen remodel! rubyfig - Thanks. I posted this earlier, but it's only 23" up to the window, and I think that's too low for any kind of counter, isn't it?...See MoreBest and most efficient kitchen layout
Comments (16)Regarding layout - as others have said, what's best will depend on your home's layout, the Kitchen's location with regards to the rest of the house and the outside, and the Kitchen's measurements. I like both a "U" (what I have now and love!) and an "L" with an island, depending on the situation. I will say that ideally I would have: Prep Zone either: Directly across from the range/cooktop with a prep sink (not cleanup sink) and at least 42" of workspace -or- Next to the range/cooktop along the same counter run with 42" to 48" of workspace b/w them Actually, I think I'd like both so more than one person can work in the Kitchen at one time!! Cleanup Zone and dish storage completelyseparate from both the Prep and Cooking Zones. The Prep Zone in the best location (view, visitors, etc.) b/c the vast majority of time in the Kitchen is spent prepping. No zone-crossing - meaning you don't have to cross through other zones when going to/from your work zone and the refrigerator or pantry. For example, I would rather not have to cross through the Cleanup Zone (and dodging an open DW door) to go to/from the refrigerator or pantry and the Prep and Cooking Zones. (Remember, this is what I consider "ideal".) A protected Cooking Zone, and to some extent, Prep Zone. Protected meaning these zones are protected from non-Kitchen traffic as well as from non-cooking and non-prepping Kitchen work. Two-bin trash pullout (trash + recycling) next to the prep sink and near the range/cooktop. If room, a trash pullout (one or two bin) next to the cleanup sink; if no room, then under the cleanup sink. Far more trash and recyclables are generated while prepping and cooking than cleaning up, and for a much longer extended period of time. [BTW...the biggest regret in my Kitchen is that I put the trash pullout in the Cleanup Zone, not the Prep Zone. I didn't realize how much more it's used when prepping and cooking until I started using my new Kitchen! Now, I have to traipse across a 6' aisle to get to the trash pullout from my Prep and Cooking Zones - often dripping all the way!] Refrigerator next to the Prep and Cooking Zones but on the periphery so outsiders can get a snack, get condiments for the dinner table, or put away groceries without getting in the way of someone prepping and/or cooking. MW also on the periphery but next to the Prep and Cooking Zones for similar reasons. For a MW, I would prefer either a drawer (which I have now and love) or in an alcove a bit above counter height with landing space for the MW next to it on the right side (the side that doesn't have a hinge). At least one wall oven that's installed so the door opens above my knees. . [Remember, this is my ideal, not necessarily anyone else's!]...See More
latifolia
2 years agoNot normally a fan of islands, but in your case it could be a good solution. This layout would get the traffic out of your work area, put your stove on an outside wall and eliminate a corner. See if the measurements work..
SYinUSA, GA zone 8 thanked latifoliaSYinUSA, GA zone 8
2 years agoHere's Dan1888's idea drawn up:
I admit I had not considered the 24" sink base. I think 24" is the smallest basin I want to use, but based on other threads here I think I can manage that in a 24" base.
acdclosgatos - I don't know what RTA companies you have found that are comparable in price to IKEA in an apples to apples comparison. "Starting at $1500" sales pitch does not include drawer bases everywhere. I am happy to be wrong if you can direct me to a specific company, though.
Latifolia and decoenthusiaste - Here's your suggestions drawn out.
I left 40" for the aisles in this rendering, which makes a 3' deep island. Even without an overhang on the island there's no room for a baking center on the bottom wall. I have never had a problem baking on my regular counters and don't need a dedicated station for it. I really think it is too tight and ultimately causes more problems than it solves. If I shorten the breakfast room windows I could extend the kitchen into the breakfast room, but does stretching it out help much?
Jan Moyer - I know this is the builder-basic kitchen from the mid-80s, but it is hard to find pictures of anybody renovating within these parameters! Most Houzz pictures show people who have blown out walls and/or added on to their house to make a much bigger kitchen. I know such kitchens exist, I guess they're just not impressive enough to get photographed for Houzz! I have taken to scouring real estate listings to see if I can figure out how other kitchens of the same era are laid out. Annnyway...here are your suggested changes:
With the shelving on the breakfast room side, I would also lose the cabinet that faces that direction, so I changed it to a blind corner. I could potentially do a lazy susan cabinet there instead - I don't think I need two of the big pullout racks. For the breakfast room side, I picture one of the all-time greats - Circus Peanut's wonderful old kitchen:
The mess that would end up there might drive me batty, but it's something to think about. I am not trying to be negative, I am just trying to be practical about our lifestyle and the limits of my patience with my kids' messes. It's something I have been considering, which is the reason I had Circus Peanut's picture handy. (And if you're reading this, CP, those countertops are still so beautiful I want to cry). On the plus side, the corner cabinet on the peninsula shortens the entire thing, so that a full-size fridge would probably be fine.
I am not sure about the tall pantry beside the fridge. There is a bank of 4 light switches just inside the garage door that would need to be moved to....where? The side of the cabinet box? They fall into what would be the backsplash area with a traditional upper/base cabinet setup.
Believe it or not, I have empty cabinet space already as it is (the small 12" cabinet beside the sink, under the cooktop, two and a half shelves of the cabinet over the DW, as well as the base cabinets in the 5' bank beside the garage door - all empty), so more cabinet space is not necessarily a priority, especially with all-drawer base cabinets where accessibility is improved.SYinUSA, GA zone 8
2 years agoSYinUSA, GA zone 8
2 years agoherbflavor, here's a quick drawing of your suggestion.
I am intrigued by this idea. To get a good size on the island and not intrude too much in the breakfast room, I left out the counter/pantry you mentioned. I only have 11'8" between the top and bottom wall, so clearances are tight all around. The aisle between the fridge and cabinet box is only 3'3" as drawn, which is far too narrow for standards. The sink and DW should probably be flipped for uninterrupted counter space. I like that this keeps traffic out of the work triangle. No room for upper cabinets anywhere, though.SYinUSA, GA zone 8
2 years agoHere's the same galley with the fridge and range swapped:
I like this better than the previous version. The bulkier fridge in the corner makes more sense visually (even though I typically don't like them against a perpendicular wall) than between the windows. I also like the idea of having my prep space at the window since I spend far more time chopping and mixing and such than I do at the sink. However, the proportion of space devoted to circulation is high. Is this enough cabinet space, especially given that there's not much room for uppers?
Here's the closed galley concept:
I definitely would not want to swap the fridge and range in this layout. This version reduces the amount of floor space devoted to circulation by quite a bit but now the space in front of the fridge is tight again. I had to scale back the peninsula depth to just the 24" cabinet box to avoid the door trim and give a little bit of extra room in front of the fridge. Even so, there's still just 39" from fridge to counter. These rough drawings also do not include the 1.5" countertop overhang, so we're looking at 37.5" of real space. Our current fridge has 36" to the edge of the peninsula in front of it. Is switching to a French door version and adding 1.5" enough to make that more comfortable? If I shorten the length of the peninsula, we're back to the question of sufficient cabinet space.SYinUSA, GA zone 8
2 years agoSYinUSA, GA zone 8
2 years agoSYinUSA, GA zone 8
2 years agoSYinUSA, GA zone 8
2 years agoIs this any better? I feel like I lose quite a bit of cabinet space, though there's more opportunity for upper cabinets than in the galley layouts I tried.
SYinUSA, GA zone 8
2 years agoSYinUSA, GA zone 8
2 years agoSYinUSA, GA zone 8
2 years agoHere's herblavor's suggested L layout:
You're right about all the wasted floor space in the middle. For the work cart, I wonder if I could rig up something like these, easy to tuck away within the kitchen when not needed:
Or even just a drop-down counter like this:
Pauline G
2 years agolast modified: 2 years agoFYI - we moved last summer and our modest-sized former home had a "U" shaped kitchen with a similar layout to the one you first proposed. I'll include a link to the real estate listing with pics. We are a family of 5 and raised our 3 ACTIVE (2 w/ ADHD lol) daughters there (who are a total of 4 years apart oldest to youngest) I am a stay-at-home mom and cooked daily. Closing the dishwasher to get into the oven is no big deal. Biggest issue with the dishwasher location was unloading the glassware into the cabinet to the left of the range. Counter depth fridge was key to keeping the traffic area clear. I *loved* the peninsula as a prep space! And having the sink in front of the window. I would not have changed anything about this layout given the space we had, and we remodeled it over 12-ish years before we sold the house.
DW is to the immediate right of the sink in the kitchen photo.
pull out garbage is in the penisula
house has a full basement and we kept an extra fridge (for extra milk and beer!!) and shelving for Sam's club purchases.
Hope this perspective helps!! :) Good luck!
Here is the basic floorplan - pics can be seen in the real estate link below
SYinUSA, GA zone 8 thanked Pauline GSYinUSA, GA zone 8
2 years ago
JAN MOYER