Hi, Thanks for your reply! To clarify, the "tree" (better described as a stick with a couple of leaves and a few marble sized fruits) is still in the pot outside. It is uncovered because we are currently having night-time temperatures in the low 40's. I have lived here for about 4 seasons and it hasn't been the same two years in a row. In general it is WET and dark during the winter and dry during the summer though of course the northwest is known for it's wet climate. So far it has snowed just once each winter (3 out of 4) and there can be about a week's worth of mid 20's weather though I would say in general there is usually a couple of months hovering in the mid 30's. Did I mention it's wet? I mean the soil eventually becomes super-saturated. So right now the little "tree" is in it's own micro-bog though I imagine it's dormant. The little fruits are turning yellow (in a bad way). One thing I could do is transplant it into a smaller pot with some commercial potting soil (somewhere I saw it suggested to use maybe 30% cedar bark also?) and bring it inside (or at least put it as out of the rain as possible). Might well be a huge shock though and maybe I'd be better off waiting 'till spring. Anyhow it sounds like bringing it inside each year would be the better plan as far as having a relatively steady supply of lemons. Is that what you do? thanks bob

"Do you loose all your leaves when you let it go semi-dormant?" You must have asked me this same question two times at least already!! I guess you don't believe it. But no, I don't loose ANY leaves in the winter when I grow them under chilly and dry conditions (December until mid-February). I do not keep my limes (Persian or Key limes) in cool conditions (they are much more tropical). Citrus and hot, dry interior conditions just don't go together so I have given up on anything but limes in the house itself. For the rest of the Citrus collection (in the garage), day temps under glass are now in the low to mid 60's even when it's only in the mid 50's outside--that's NOT cold and the air is fairly humid. As I said, my challenge is really just January--the rest of the year is a cake walk. PS. One of the reasons I am anxious to get them out of the garage is that a stronger sun and warmer conditions means that I have to be much more attentive to watering as they dry out much faster now. I wish I could say that I dote over them in the Winter, but I virtually forget about them from about early December until mid-February.

Hi Jerry, Are you near Aurora? Is that how you found Schaefers? Did you ever shop at Jamacan Gardens..there's one in Morton Grove and another in Libertyville. They both sell citrus and a million other tropicals.. 12.99 is a good price, especially compared to many other citrus nurseries around. My brother bought me a small citrus 2 yrs ago, (don't know name of nursery) up north for about the same price, but it's only 1-1 1 1/2' tall..It has baby lemons growing though..I imagine it's a dwarf. I should check if it's the same nursery cause Schafer sounds familiar, even though I've never been to one..As far as Lowe's, there aren't any nearby, not here, sw of Chicago. I think most are up north and west. Thats too bad about your Kumquat..I feel they're one of the easist citrus to grow..and fruit often. You're doggie was a bad girl, huh? LOL..nibbling on fruit..shame on her. I've never had luck w/4winds citrus. I admit, I ordered from them some time ago, but what they sent were 2 bare-root citrus that were super small. They didn't last more than a few months..they didn't look well upon arrival, but perhaps 4Winds are now sending better looking trees. Meyer's seem to be ever-flowering and fruiting..I grow all my citrus about the same way..as much light as possible, well-draining soil, citrus fertilizer, a summer outside. In winter they're kept on the cool side..in other words, a room that is semi-heated..No heating vents. South windows, w/some west. Artificial light at night. Before bringing plants indoors I spray foliage w/Fish Emulsion..it prevents scale and since it's sold as an organic fertilizer, used as a last foliar feeding. While plants are indoors in winter, mine are misted daily. Better yet, if managable size, taken to sink and hosed or showered..No fertilizer in winter.. Since you're in Il, you know humiidty decreases once the heat is turned on..Buy a humidifer..they work fantastic, Jerry. And like I stated above, humidity is also the reason I mist foliage..If your tree is small, you can also place a humidity tray under pot..Place stones/rocks on a larger saucer and keep filled w/water..don't let water touch roots though... To check if soil is moist or dry use the finger method..stick finger in soil as deep as it goes..if it comes out dry, then it's time for a drink..if your finger comes out wet then wait a few days and recheck. Or you can test by lifting pot..dry soil ='s a light weight pot..if heavy it's still moist/wet. I wait until soil looks crumbly before watering. One problem in winter is bugs. Do you use insecticides? I don't believe in using (most) chemicals so make up my own concoction for mites..But that's jumping the gun.. I believe you said your citrus are outside now, right? Keep out till temps are about 40F. Before bringing indoors, hose off thoroughly. You can either bring in gradually, to adapt to lower light conditions or all at once, as long as you have a bright window, and heat isn't yet turned on. Because of the change, a few yellow leaves are inevitable, just pluck them off. Anyway, Jerry, like I said, I grow all citrus the same way. The only citrus I've yet to get to fruit is my Orange Navel..I believe it needs longer summers, something we don't have here in IL. I can't keep a Buddha Hand either.. I planned on ordering another this spring, but w/the ban in Fl, the two places I order citrus from cannot ship..Briteleaf and Harriscitrus Their trees are fairly tall, bug-free, and inexpensive..15-20.00 per tree..Well, there's always next yr..hopefully by then the ban will be over. That darn canker has caused so much damage..u know? What is number 5? LOL You don't use Citrus fertilizer? I don't see any problem with it, and most here who grow citrus use some form of time-release citrus food. What type of Osmocote do you use? Does it contain nutrients like iron, mag, etc? Also, isn't Osmocote a form of time-release? I think I'd look into citrus food if I were you..though, Jerry, don't think I'm telling you what to do..okay? This is what I'd do w/my own citrus. I don't knowi if Hoffman has a website, but that's the brand I use..check it out when u have time. I also picked up a box of citrus food at Jamacan Gardens..Price wasn't bad. I'm sure Ebay sells citrus food, too. Are u going to buy the Eureka? Good luck Jerry..Toni

Hello fegray, I am new to the forum but have been growing citrus in Connecticut (except for a decade spent in Florida) for about 35 years. My oldest tree is a sour orange I planted about 35 years ago when a young boy of 7 or so, and I have a large 4 by 4 foot Calamondin, a two by two Meyer Lemon (that had 25 lemons on it this fall, and still has 16 to go--2 lemons required per pie!), a two by-two Key lime, a 3 by 3 Buddha's Hand citron, a 2.5 foot tall and rather spindly Ponderosa lemon (on dwarfing rootstock), and a couple other smaller citrus, so I have plenty of experience with pruning, repotting, and dealing with insect infestations. I have had scale before, though not for many years. My citrus trees usually end up with spider mites during the winter: all it takes is a mite or two making it in during the move from outside to inside in October, and by Xmas I often have an infestation. The signs are similar to what you describe (sugary "sap", small spider webs, and sticky leaves). If you have mature scale insects of the kind I've encountered here in the northeast, they would likely be quite obvious and will often be clustered on the newer (say last summer's) shoots and should stand out from the green bark as they are typically brown or yellow or reddish brown. The nymphs or little scale crawlers move about, but the adults stay in one place. I am skeptical that Safer will do the trick for you if you have scale or spider mites, but it won't hurt to try, as long as you don't let them go on too long. In a couple weeks, in zone 7, you may even be able to move the plant outside where the rain and humidity will work against the insects. Note: If you have spider mites and your closeup eyesight is not the best, you may not be able to see the actual insects. The particular mites I get are so small that I can only see them when I have full sunlight falling on the leaves and can spot the mites moving around on them or their webs. They are smaller than periods in newsprint, and light reddish brown to yellow in color. The test is to take a white sheet of paper, hold it under the suspected site of infestation, and gently tap and shake the leaves and smaller branches. If you have mites, you'll have a few specs that slowly move on the paper after this. I have never had luck controlling mites with the friendly sprays many posters advocate, but as long as the infestation is not severe they will fade away in numbers once the afflicted plant goes outside. If the infestation is severe, they can weaken the tree to the point of no return, though with a large tree I think this is somewhat unlikely. There are other possible causes for sudden leaf drop as I'm sure you know: a cold draft, the natural dropping of old leaves, and uneven watering; this last is not necessary obvious. With your large tree, you may not be able to get it enough water if it is rootbound: you can water a citrus two or three times a week and still won't keep it happy if it is growing. Thus, if the tree gets too dry during the winter you can quickly kill it or cause a large section to die back. I make an effort to water my trees thoroughly up to twice a week in the winter if they are growing, flowering, and fruiting (and they often do all of this for months on end). By thorough, I mean until water comes out of the bottom of the drain holes. Having repotted and root trimmed a few times over the years, I can tell you that if a citrus plant is badly potbound and it goes into a growth phase you may need to water it every other day. I had to do this a few years ago. In other words, you may think you are watering enough, and you may even have water coming out the drain holes, but there may be too little soil to hold the water inside the pot long enough for the plant to drink it in. Of course, too much water can also cause leaf drop, so please check to see if your citrus is potbound. The quick test is to try to lift the rootball out of the pot. You may need help to do this! If it comes out and all you can really see is roots . . . well, that is a pretty good sign it needs to be root-trimmed and backfilled with new soil, or repotted, or both. Regarding your long-standing lack of flowers and fruit: I would say that this is odd. My 35 year old sour orange flowers and fruits profusely, and has done so since it was about 15 years old, and before then it did so to a lesser extent. I have kept it in a 22 inch plastic pot for the last 5 or 6 years and take it out and root prune it ever three or four. I think it is due for another pruning this spring. Including the container, it is about 6 1/2 feet tall: I prune it back a foot or two over the course of the summer (if it sends out suckers I tend to cut them before they get too unruly), and then I inevitably end up pruning it once more in October before it comes in. I regularly leave my citrus outside until the night temperatures drop into the low forties or upper thirties (I live in central Connecticut, and last fall I think the last citrus came inside on the 14th of October). In my experience, the only think healthy citrus trees need to induce flowering in the winter is a good sunny window: I've had them flower with west light, south light, and even west light in an attached garage that got down to 50 degrees at night where the light came in through the little garage windows. My advice is that as long as the tree is healthy you should try giving it a good pruning a week or ten days after you move it outside. Say a good 6 inches to a foot all the way around. Good luck! Don