Nurses and doctors can't take another year of this. The nursing shortage is beyond acute at this point.

Agree with so much on this thread, but make no mistake, the healthcare workers didn't think they were out of the woods. They're still ready, have your backs, and they're tired. If anyone reading this is still on the fence about vaccines, decide to get it today. They're owed that much.

People with Covid in ICUs means people with other medical needs do not get access to hospitals. The definition of elective surgery is not cosmetic surgery, it's anything non life threatening in the immediate term.

I feel bad for those unvaccinated who live in poverty but want the vaccine in countries that are too poor to buy the vaccine.

And then there are the health care workers that refused to get vaccinated. I simply don’t understand.

Cases doubled in a week here even though 42% are fully vaccibated Our governor mocks Fauci If unvaccinated people get sick, its their own fault They will have to deal with the repercussions Its a shame the rest of us have to continue to deal with their selfishness A 75yo fully vaccinated man died of the delta variant this month I’m worried Mom’s memory care facility will go back into to lockdown soon with Florida’s 11.5% positivity rate Different variants will continue to emerge and one of these days it will not be covered by the vaccines and we will be in a real mess

This question is very salient as we get closer and closer to the schools opening up. Students in middle and high school are all of an age where they COULD be vaccinated. From the verbiage I heard from high schoolers last spring I would be surprised if many of them got vaccinated as they were free to. It's going to be very interesting to see where this leads us. As I have stated, masking up to shop/be out and about is easy. I would don mine again w/o a fight if that became the mandate...but wearing one for 8+hours a day while at work, while trying to TEACH/communicate with teens is a HUGE HUGE challenge and one I do not hope to repeat.

Wall Street certainly thinks Covid19 is a problem. The Dow is down more than two percent right now.

chisue, I also just saw that. We're definitely not headed in the right direction.

@HamiltonGardener - Yes, we are headed for two separate paths, but spread amongst the unvaccinated could provide an opportunity for a mutation to develop that is resistant to current vaccines, and then we're all back to square one.

I worry that the delta variant will mutate further,etc etc & at some future point many of use are again at risk because the vaccines are no longer protective. It just baffles me why so many refuse to get vaccinated. Such a sad state of afairs.

i curse those on tv ”news chanel” & politicians who discourage people people from getting vaccinated & downplay the dangers of Covid. It’s disgusting.

Some of the biggest losers in the drop in the DOW today are the airlines, cruiselines and oil industry. See a pattern here? All have to do with travel and with the covid cases rising not only in the US but in other countries as well, travel may be curtailed once again.

I do not want our borders opening up yet.

And unfortunately - there are some positive cases among the Olympic athletes being reported. That doesn't include any coaches, trainers, administration, etc.

blfenton, the Canadian border is opening August 9 to fully vaccinated Americans and citizens of other countries on September 7.

I don't see a major improvement until these TV stations and radio talk show host quit with the disinformation. Bear in mind that all these talking heads have already had their shots. What they are doing should be considered treasonous ("involving or guilty of the crime of betraying one's country".)

Those TV and radio anti-vax talkers are just the tip of the iceberg, you know. There are numerous other pathways for the disinformation to spread, and the worst, IMO, is through word of mouth.

And also know that viruses continually mutate, and the SARS/COVID19 is no different, but most of the time the variants are not concerning. It's not necessary for the Delta variant to mutate to a more dangerous form, any variants could potentially be an issue.

I do feel bad for unvaxed kids under 12 who still need to mask because not all of those eligible have been vaxed.

I’m shocked that the US olympians were not required to be immunized.

I am concerned for the kids. My go to is Dr Scott Gottlieb. This morning he again repeated that vaccine is highly effective even against the Delta. He said that while the Delta is spreading more than we seem to be tracking, for the vaccinated population it is primarily a very mild event. The fact that it is mild is why people are not getting tested or going to the doctor. That's not to say it can't mutate and all of that other horrible stuff, but I still honestly feel very protected. Those not vaccinated are going to have a tougher go of this.

Meant to add- Dr Scott Gottlieb a few hours ago

Are American universities right to require students to be vaccinated? Take a look.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/07/19/us/indiana-university-vaccine-mandate-ruling.html

roxsol - Yes, I know about the borders opening, Doesn't mean I have to be happy about it. I hope the Feds rethink this.

Universities requiring vaccination.

it's one small step for man, a giant leap for a mutating virus

I do not want our borders opening up yet.

too late for that.

Do we no longer teach Logic in our schools?

No, and it matters not what is taught in school when the culture you are steeped in is anti-logic.

Interest chart from WaPo where they adjusted the data for MO for the spread of the disease among the unvaxed....they are as bad off as they were last winter...I wish they published the data for the vaxed vs. the unvaxed as it would be far more stark.

Annie - I take it that you won't be visiting Branson anytime soon.

Not going to second-guess just yet.

I do wish they'd release numbers for "long term COVID". I know that's harder to track. I have a married couple who are friends who are dealing with just that, together. They both contracted COVID May or June 2020, and are still experiencing difficulties. The husband, who had the milder initial case, is worse off than his wife.

Delta is problematic, because it appears to be more contagious.

I frankly don't know, but I am glad I don't live in a state of ostriches.

I think the only good news is that vax rates are rising where the disease is hitting hardest. Terrible way to learn the lesson, but better than not learning at all.

A friend will be visiting her mother in a few weeks...she lives out of state...and she was reluctant to get vaxed, but did because they won't let her see her mother otherwise (in her 90s and bedridden). I'm not sure what her issue is with the vax, but she just said to me that she doesn't think it's good for our bodies...whatever that means. Both she and her dh had the disease in 2020...both work in a school system...both survived. Somehow I think the virus isn't good for our bodies. She'll be by to visit me so I'm sure I'll learn more. I wonder what her cousin will do as they are very close, but her cousin is unvaxed and convinced that by spending time indoors with people who have been vaxed, she can pick up "side effects" from the vaccine!?!

My county is between 40-50% vaccinated right now. Found this out after watching one of the governor's covid updates Monday. I was kind of surprised it was so high considering what I know about my county. My French exchange student couldn't wait to get vaccinated before he left. Most of the kids he went to school with in our town weren't ever planning on getting it. Have two more students coming in a couple weeks, the French girl will be completely vaccinated and the S. Korean boy will be half vaccinated and we will get his second shot when he's here. I'm glad they are being responsible and smart.

It's not over anywhere, until it's over everywhere. Obviously better if there's a high percentage fully vaccinated, because symptoms will be milder and deaths fewer, which is lighter on the health system.

It's not over anywhere, until it's over everywhere.

💯

Science says ... it's gonna be around for awhile. Look at the spanish flu pandemic ....

And lambda is moving north from peru.

Some of the experts are saying while delta is more easily transmissable, it's not quite as rough as the initial strain which circulated.

One would think of all the people who have been vaxed, someone should have some good numbers, much more so than the comparably small number typical tests needed for formal fda approval.

Viruses are not living, thinking organisms. They cannot look for a host, they cannot chose to mutate.

Some ideologies, instituted & preferred by government do seek to exert as much control for as long as possible over as many people as possible. This pandemic provided the circumstances that have allowed the social experiment that has included lock-downs and other restrictions.

Some ideologies, instituted & preferred by government do seek to exert as much control for as long as possible over as many people as possible. This pandemic provided the circumstances that have allowed the social experiment that has included lock-downs and other restrictions.

Masking rules, lockdowns, free vaccines have helped save many of those who have survived the pandemic.. Other nations and areas have their citizens dying, even now.

"Viruses are not living, thinking organisms. They cannot look for a host, they cannot chose to mutate."

They absolutely are living organisms, though for a long time it was thought that because they didn't have cells they couldn't be alive. But they definitely reproduce, hijacking a cell's normal reproductive system to create more viral particles, so in that sense, maybe they're like an obligate parasite, or a seed pod waiting for the right environment to allow it to grow.....and like a seed, they are so numerous that some of them will find the right environment (i.e. host) and grow, even though they don't search for a host environment. They contain DNA and RNA, and they can be killed.

By the way, nothing chooses to mutate, but it happens anyway.

None of a virus' life and death has anything to do with politics. And nothing about public health should have anything to do with politics either.

Cases are surging in North Carolina. If kids under 12 and under don't mask in the fall, we will be closing schools again.

I really don't understand the difference between this vaccination and all of the other vaccines that we take to protect public health. I don't want polio, smallpox, hepatitus, measles, mumps, tetanus, shingles, etc. I don't want you to have them either. I am proud to stop the spread of the above diseases.

Most or all of the vaccines on your list were thoroughly tested for years by the FDA before getting approved. Polio and Smallpox may have been an exception to that, not sure. None of the Covid vaccines have been fully approved by the FDA yet. They have been approved for emergency use only. Pfizer is pushing hard to get full FDA approval soon. I know several co-workers that won't get jabbed until the FDA gives full approval.

There are plenty of people that won't take any of those other vaccines either. Only roughly 50% of people in the US get flu shots every year. Most states require kids to get a series of vaccines to attend public schools but there are ways of opting out.

Is there any doubt that, at this point, Pfizer will get full approval? I don't think there is.

Most states require kids to get a series of vaccines to attend public schools but there are ways of opting out.

My father was a doctor. He devoted his life to cancer research, but of course had all sorts of experiences as he acquired his education. He didn't talk about a lot of it, but he did talk about the whooping sound of the whooping cough that killed so many children. It still kills, but far less after the advent of the pertussis vaccing, part of the Dtap series given in childhood.

If the FDA decided not to approve the vaccines for emergency use until they had done years of trials I wonder who would be moaning about the government denying us a lifesaving vaccine while millions die?

People like to say that they don't want to get vaccinated because the vaccines aren't FDA approved.

There is only ONE FDA approved drug to treat Covid. The other drugs are experimental and not FDA approved.

So when you're lying in the hospital bed sick with Covid you'll be treated with the drug that works. You may be given the one FDA approved drug, or you may not. If that one FDA approved drug isn't effective for you, you'll be given another drug. One that is still classified as experimental and isn't approved by the FDA. The experimental drugs are approved for emergency use.

Are you going to refuse the experiment drugs that could save your life? You're refusing the Covid vaccine because it's not FDA approved. There are several drug protocols being used that aren't FDA approved. You may be given one of them.

Gonna refuse the experimental drugs that could save your life like you're refusing the vaccine?

https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/know-your-treatment-options-covid-19#:~:text=The%20US%20Food%20and%20Drug,combating%20COVID%2D19.

Elmer - Not sure what you are referring to. It is a fact that none of the covid vaccines have been given full FDA approval. That matters to some people but I don't really understand their reasoning.

"No one has a rational excuse to not be vaccinated."

I met up yesterday with a cousin I haven't seen in a long time. She was a medical tech, was anxious to get her first pfizer and then had a severe allergic reaction that ended her up in the hospital. While she is glad to have some protection from the first shot, she is unable to be completely vaccinated. Drs have told her under no circumstances should she get a 2nd shot.

Annie, it's easy to find the stats from the initial testing.. For the Pfizer vaccine, the rate of anaphylaxis was 11 cases per million doses, 70% of which happened within 15 minutes. I hope you're not suggesting that 999,989 people for each group of 1 million people should resist taking the vaccine because of the risk of being one of the 11 to have a reaction, because that's obviously a foolish assessment. I'm sorry about your cousin's experience, but it was obviously rare and unpredictable. Of course she shouldn't risk taking dose number two, but her taking dose number one was a prudent choice. For everyone else,

No one has a rational excuse to not be vaccinated.

A 'mental health professional' (her words) has a letter in today's Chicago Tribune. She's concerned about a wave of Covid19 survivors who are suffering from brain defects -- the third of survivors who have brain disorders lasting at least six months past 'recovery'. Many of these people are younger, and may have to cope with this "neuro-Covid19" for years.

This author says: Most know that Covid19 can damage lungs, heart, and blood vessels. It can also damage they brain and nerves. Some survivors experience stroke, nerve damage, and psychological problems including fear, anxiety, stress, depression, grief and altered mental states such as delirium and psychosis. She's cautioning people in the mental health fields to prepare themselves to aid these 'Covid Long Haulers'.

I can't believe that people aren't able to weigh the remote risks of vaccine v. the known and still-being-discovered disastrous effects of the disease. I'd also prefer to be part of the solution, not a Covid19 enabler.

Just read this on 'breakthrough' infections from Slate.com - what struck me was the description of 'mild' COVID:

https://slate.com/technology/2021/07/covid-delta-variant-risk-vaccinated-breakthrough-cases.html

"...Even with these very effective vaccines, there are still going to be infections—herd immunity is a long game, not a short one—and some of those infections are going to be severe. There are even going to be a very small percentage of vaccinated people who die—according to the CDC, as of July 12, 5,189 vaccinated people have been hospitalized with COVID-19, and 1,093 have died. (Even that somewhat scary number has caveats: 1,456 of those hospitalized were reported asymptomatic, or were hospitalized for something not related to COVID.) There is still plenty we don’t know, including precisely how much worse delta is, and how much worse whatever comes after delta will be. We do know that vaccinating as many people as possible is our best path toward minimizing the badness of whatever that is, and that in the U.S., we are doing better than many of us seem willing to accept....

...Another disconnect is what we think of as “severe illness” and what is actually severe illness. My colleague said he could not imagine describing the illness he had experienced as anything other than “severe”—he was unable to do anything for 36 hours and said it was on par with having debilitating food poisoning. But when I asked a couple doctors about this, they disagreed with his ranking. “Technically, it sounds like he had a mild bout of COVID-19, by strict case definitions,” emergency physician and sometime Slate contributor Jeremy Samuel Faust wrote to me. “Mild does not mean pleasant. In fact, you can have fever, chills, body aches, and feel downright terrible for a week or more and still be categorized as ‘mild.’ ”

To approach even a moderate (or severe) case of COVID, “there must be significant lung involvement as evidenced by low oxygen levels, for example,” Faust said. “It really can be miserable. But you’re at home, not in the ICU.”...

...If the “mild” cases of COVID that can break through are more severe than the colds we used to accept as a normal consequence of traveling, that is worth being clear about. So, yes: Vaccines greatly reduce the severity of illness. But you can still get very sick, in layman’s terms. It can be much more than a sniffle. (Frankly, the fact that you can get that sick from mild COVID should be yet another reason to avoid getting what doctors call severe COVID.)..."

"(Frankly, the fact that you can get that sick from mild COVID should be yet another reason to avoid getting what doctors call severe COVID.)...""

And that's been true from the start, even before the vaccines......People would say 'well, I read that most cases are mild, so that's not so bad." and didn't realize that "mild" cases pretty much meant that you didn't need to be hospitalized. It could leave you flat on your back, bedridden for weeks - not what most people think of as "mild".

So,

1. Now that everyone in the country has had the offer of the vaccine and the ability to accept or decline, the consequences of being unvaccinated is their own choice.

2. People will point out that hospitals could be overtasked by COVID patients, leading to treatment and surgeries for others to be postponed. True, but that decision is actually in the hands of thr health care system. Just as they current choose to put cancer or other priority procedures on hold to prioritize COVID patients, they have the ability to prioritize non-COVID patients instead. Put COVID patients in lower priority.

3. Some will point out the possibility of a variant in the unvaccinated which escapes the vaccine. Could happen. But, it is well within the power of the government to make vaccines mandatory in order to come out of quarantine. If the government lacks the fortitude to take this step, then they are accountable.

So, not many more steps you can asked of the vaccinated. They have done their part, and it would be grossly unfair to ask them to continue to sacrifice to protect those who are, for the most part, unnecessarily unvaccinated.