From your post it sounds like you've reached out to cabinet vendor's house designer; who you need hire is an independent designer

Go to an independent designer who is not in the business of selling cabinets. They will recommend everything from layout options, to cabinetry, to plumbing fixtures, appliances, lighting, tile, flooring, etc. It will not be inexpensive, but it will be worth it.

Thank you and that's what I thought I was doing by calling kitchen designers. I'll search for local designers here on Houzz and see what comes up but I can tell you all 3 of these companies did. Any other keywords that you'd recommend?

“not only cabinet layout ideas but also make recommendations on pulling a beautful well designed kitchen together, including hood options, backsplash and lighting ideas”

”Give me a few choices that work really well together, etc. show me quartz and backsplash ideas that work really well with the soft white cabinets, lighting ideas for the space etc.”

I disagree with the previous posters because I see an underlying issue - there appears to be a misunderstanding on your part about what the initial meetings entail. It sounds like you are expecting all that advice upfront and for free. The initial meeting is to give some general ideas, determine what budget you are able to spend, and whether your personalities and styles gel.

I don’t know what line of work you are in, but would you do your job without being paid? With these KDs you’ve spoken to, there is no signed contract, so why should any of them advise you on details like backsplash, counter, and lighting? Did you tell them your budget? They can give you a general design ideas, and show you photos of their work, or show you their various cabinet lines, but not provide the specific advice you want at this stage.

Is there a kitchen layout done? If not, how would you get estimates?

The order you need to go in is (1) decide your budget. That is first because it provides the parameters for everything to follow; (2) meet with several KDs, see their work, see their styles, see whether they can work within your budget (very important!), see whether your personalities gel; (3) hire one. Pay downpayment for layout, S/he will then measure your kitchen, windows, etc. and you can talk about whether electrical needs to be upgraded or similar, structural changes if any, is flooring changing, hood exhast ductwork; (4) discuss sizes of appliances - e.g. a 30” range or 42”, or separate cooktop and wall oven, size of fridge, etc. (5) S/he will provide a layout with detailed measurements, and you will review it together; (6) layout agreed between you, you can now start on cabinet estimates; (7) choose counters, sink, faucet, appliances; (8) backsplash is always the last thing to choose.

Thank you Shannon_WI - All 3 that I met with made it clear I'd have to provide my own on many line items, tile, backsplash, lighting, tile for bathroom etc., two of them said they could recommend a couple of local stores with good selections- it wasn't them not wanting to give their experience away until contracted (i.e. paid) and they weren't saying they would make recommendations further down the path or once contracted.

And to be super clear since it seems you were reading into something that wasn't meant the way you read it... what I outlined in my original post re: ideas and options was not at all expected to be shared on the first visit, but for the professional I'm hiring I do expect would be part of the service they will provide. Hope that makes better sense.

As others have mentioned, you need either an independent kitchen designer or an interior designer that designs kitchens. You can typically tell from an interior designer's portfolio if they design kitchens. There may also be a full-service kitchen design studio in your area (similar to independent designers, but they generally sell a number of cabinet lines and have a showroom). It sounds like your experience has been with cabinet showrooms, not with kitchen design showrooms. I know it's confusing! Be prepared that for an independent kitchen designer, an interior designer or a kitchen design studio, you will likely need to pay an additional design fee above the cost of the cabinets. This fee may be hourly or included in the overall cost.

“since it seems you were reading into something that wasn't meant the way you read it... what I outlined in my original post re: ideas and options was not at all expected to be shared on the first visit”

Glad you cleared that up. I was NOT “reading something into it” as you put it. Your words verbatim in your OP were: “Perhaps overly optimistic I was expecting they would come in with not only cabinet layout ideas but also make recommendations on pulling a beautful well designed kitchen together, including hood options, backsplash and lighting ideas”,

and, ”show me quartz and backsplash ideas that work really well with the soft white cabinets, lighting ideas for the space etc. I get met with blank stares when I ask”.

When renovating a kitchen, being clear with your communication is also key to a successful renovation. You said something specific in your OP, then you said you didn’t. We have seen time and time again on this forum where people say there was a miscommunication with their GC or KD, leading to disastrous results.

”Help point me in the right direction please” - You still have not answered whether you have a budget that you can provide a KD. If you do not have a budget, you either will not find a KD who will work with you without a budget, or you will find one to work with who will proceed with ”the sky’s the limit” since you gave no parameters.

Ok. this is why forums like this are challenging. I am not here to argue, pick your words apart or mine and am grateful that some people posted direct responses to my question vs. what you are doing.

You are are taking what I said out of context to fit your narrative of 'the client must be wrong'- That's not the case... other commentors did not seem to take issue with my explanation or question in my post. I expect the person I hire to provide all I included in my post however these folks don't offer full service - that's the point- they don't offer what I want and I was asking how to find what I want. Yes, budget was discussed and these 3 companies provided estimates for what they do offer.

Good luck with your project, and keep this forum posted on its successful progress and completion.

We are in the same position, planning a kitchen redo. I spoke with many ”kitchen designers” and companies and I, too, was frustrated with their lack of “guidance”. All wanted to come in and measure before we discussed possible options. A few came to my home and offered no design or product assistance. I was ready to put the project on hold until I found a beautiful inspirational picture of the kitchen of my dreams. Now I feel I can shop contractors and show them exactly what I want. Maybe try looking at kitchen inpiration photos. At the very least, you will find what you don’t want.

Why didn't you want them to measure first? This is my standard practice. Measure, create space plan, establish budget for materials based on space plan...THEN select materials and finishes that fit the budget, timeline, maintenance, space plan and design aesthetic. An inspiration photo is useful to reference in the beginning, but what works in one house or for one client may not translate to what is best for you.

Their first response was to come out and measure before I established if the particular company was a good fit. I thought we would have more conversation before deciding who would do the project. I wanted to save us both time and effort. I feel that an insrirational photo points one in the right direction, rather than going around in circles and wasting time. Basically, I know now know what I want. I can’t see how this wouldn't be helpful to both parties.

They wanted to measure before contracting with you? I initially meet with a potential client for a consultation where we review the requested scope of work and talk about a potential design direction, but I do not present any design options at this consultation. I provide my proposal after that meeting and once a client signs on, I schedule a measure and a more in-depth conversation regarding their design expectations. This does require a leap of faith that the designer you hire will be able to fulfill your expectations, so you should research their portfolio, history, reviews, talk to past clients, etc. before committing to a designer/design firm.

Try to find a showroom that sells kitchens and all the other materials. Where I work, we do everything - flooring , tile, sinks, faucets ,handles so we do help our customers with all of those things as part of our services. We do an initial meeting and design based on the customers dimensions and photos of their space. We do one set of changes and give them and estimate for labor and for material.

If they like our work and abilities and wan to move forward, we take a deposit and then we go to measure , order samples, do more design revisions until they are ready to order.

If you go to a store that just does cabinets, I would suggest an interior designer ( like others have suggested ) to work with you and the kitchen designer to pull it all together.

Good luck!

@Kristin Petro Interiors, Inc. - your post is very sensible. I would add that the OP mentioned she got 3 estimates, but without a measured layout, a cabinet estimate cannot be relied upon in any way. Not only because there is no measured layout, but there are questions like are the estimates for framed or frameless cabinetry? Are the uppers going to the ceiling or not? Base cabinets are drawers or doors? Will there be a cabinet hood enclosure? Paneled appliances or not? I caution the OP not to rely on the 3 estimates, even as a ballpark.

Thank you M Miller. Understood and the estimates provided are ranges - in addition to that i believe 2 of them said +/- 10%. the purpose of the initial consult was to get a feel for who i like, what they provide in terms of service and product selection, was my budget in line etc. not at all expecting firm or specific estimates though i will say that all 3 did measure while here and 2 took copies of my blue print and a 3D drawing i provided. appreciate your response.

If you’re still exploring other designers, you might look for one that does Design-Build. This term is most frequently associated with new construction, but we follow the practice of designing - then building what we design. That way are intimately tied to everything in the room from the framing, rough electric, plumbing, drywall, etc…all the way to the final lightbulbs and hardware. And our first meeting is viewed as an interview, let’s see what you want done and see if you like how we operate.