Yes, have the cracked tiles replaced before you go any further.....

Thank you! I wasn't sure if this was intended given they are smaller tiles but I'll definitely make sure the tilers fix all the edge tiles!

Did they pull permits to do your shower? Doesn't your city or town have to inspect to make sure the flood test holds? I know where I live the inspector had to inspect it.

@cpartist They did pull permits to remodel the bathroom. I don't think the city requires inspection and the flood test.

Not an industry compliant, nor MFG compliant install.

Id put the brakes on this joker and offer to let them demo it and refund you and walk away.

Then you can lean on the few tile pros here to help you source and find a qualified tile shower builder.

@Mint tile Minneapolis They're actually subcontractors I think for the tiling process for this contracting company we're working with so we told the contractors we have issues with the tiling and hopefully they resolve this issue.

Unfortunately we can't communicate with the tiler and it's not my job to watch the tiler closely so I'm not sure what they did besides what I could see first hand. From my understanding this is what the tiler has done so far:

1. Concrete backerboard was installed on the shower bench, shower walls, and maybe the bathroom floor?
2. Floor tile was installed on the bathroom floor
3. Redgard was applied on the shower's concrete backerboard and the shower niche
4. A mud substrate was applied to the shower floor with maybe a precut shower liner. I'm uncertain if there was a pre-slope installed underneath.

I'm certain there was hardly any time in between installation steps of everything as it all happened in one day.

How would I approach our contractor who is working with this subcontractor?

@millworkman Thank you for mentioning to check the manufacturers instructions. I'm not sure how to access the TCNA standard or where that would be.

I agree with you. The tiler came by today and when we asked for an explanation he basically told us that over the subfloor is immediately the shower pan, then the mortar which was pre-sloped and then the thin set and tiles. We asked for an explanation why there wasn't time for the mortar to set, the water test to be done, and why the pre-slope was done above the liner but his only explanation was that he has been doing it for 10 years and would do it like that for his bathroom.

We told him to leave the tiles he was bringing in (the correct tile volume for the bathroom wasnt even ordered) and to leave for the day. The sub contractor tiler said he will speak with the contractor and the contractor will then contact us. I feel as though if the contractor will not find a new reputable tiler for us we may need to cancel both.

I was wondering if it would be possible to expect any % refund or what that process would be like

"his only explanation was that he has been doing it for 10 years and would do it like that for his bathroom."

Just because he has been doing it wrong for 10 years does not mean it is ok. You will own them for the work they have accomplished to this point, so you may not get anything back but I would at the very least hold out for them to demo what they have already done wrong. You can start here to find a copy of the manual.

"Just because he has been doing it wrong for 10 years does not mean it is ok."

I agree with you on that. We've been messaging back and forth asking for an explanation as to why his method / the tiler's method is better than the manufacturer's stated method and he provided no further explanation besides - The explanation is that this is just what we do. I'm familiar with the manufacturer's instructions but this is the method we have used for hundreds of bathrooms a year.

We are currently working on finding other tilers / remodelers in the meantime just in case. I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions for qualified tile shower builders in the Greater Boston Area. @Mint tile Minneapolis

With regards to the contractor - would we be able to have them purchase the remaining materials like shower door, quartz bench, etc or is this a loss cause?

Jon - do you have a written agreement that covers this work? Not having one does not prevent you from recovering your money, but it will have some specific provisions regarding events of default/notice requirements/cure rights.

If you let me know, I will give you some general information re: breach of contract actions/failure to perform scope of services in a good and workmanlike manner/etc.

@dani_m08 There is a written agreement that covers the work but from what I understand there isn't a cancellation clause regarding failure to perform scope of services in a good and workmanlike manner. It does state a payment plan for the completion of specific timelines for the project. The remaining ones being completion of tilework, completion of interior trim, and completion of project

If A GC subbed this clown then your GC is proving his ability to vet and hire subcontractors, you may have 2 unqualified parties involved.

Jon - You don’t need an express “cancellation clause” - if the contractor fails to perform under the contract, the contract has been breached. Also, most (may be all - I haven’t researched this isue) jurisdictions have enacted statutes governing home improvement/renovations that provide protections for homeowners, along with consumer protection laws.

IMPORTANT - I need to know if your contractor holds a valid license?

They do hold a valid license. And they offered to tear up their previous work and follow the manufacturer's instructions with cure time and flood testing included

Great!

FYI - I took a look at the statutes in your state that govern home renovations last night. As long as the homeowner makes sure to hire a contractor that has a vaild license, there are great protections afforded by law - better than in many other jurisdictions.

For example, if your contractor fails to remedy the mess that’s been created in your bathroom, there is a special fund that will cover losses up to $10,000 in the event the contractor fails to pay you for the loss. I’ve never seen that before - I’m not a construction attorney (I practice commercial real estate/development work + some general business law) but I have read several of these types of statutes for people here on Houzz. Massachusetts (you did say Boston in an above comment, right?) has a procedure for written or oral hearings, and if you are awarded money for your loss, and the contractor fails to pay after collevtion efforts, the fund kicks in and covers it (limited to the $10k cap + homeowners can only recover from fund once). That’s pretty cool

The statutes also require all work for $1,000 or more must have a written contract. Further, the statutes set forth many provisions that must be contained in the agreement. Your state clearly wants to protect it’s citizens from shoddy work!

Make sure to post photos when the work is completed. Good luck!

Like Florida, tile contractors are specifically exempt from MA licensing law. This may affect whether or not you're able to access the loss fund.

Hi all, thank you for your help. especially @dani_m08 @Mint tile Minneapolis and @millworkman After much deliberation, we decided that we can't easily end the contract with our current contractor.

We were able to get the contractor to demo the preexisting floor and start off with a preslope (which looked like it sloped enough hopefully). Unfortunately it seems like I may need to watch out and make sure they follow all the proceeding steps correctly. They were about to install the shower liner today without waiting for the preslope to dry.

Another question if you could assist:

In the pictures above you can see the shower bench and the shower niche are already redgarded. I have read everywhere that the slope for the bench, niche, and curb needs to go inward at least 1/4 inch. I'm not too tool savvy but when checking the level I saw the bench and niche look to be level. We will be installing quartz on all three surfaces. I think usually the slope is installed by the carpentry or backerboard (I think), but would it be possible to add a slope after the redgard was applied?

Luckily I think I can make sure the curb is sloped given the backerboard / liner wasn't installed yet. Does the shower liner need to go all the way around the curb? I think that it only goes to the top of the curb

@Joseph Corlett, LLC - wow - seems very odd that someone setting tile doesn’t have to register in Massachusetts - HOWEVER - someone who hangs wallpaper does! I’m not sayimg hanging wallpaper is easy - but there definitely is A LOT less potential for something to be damaged if your wallpaper installer doesn’t know what he/she is doing vs. your tile setter!

FYI - I read about registration being required for this on a govt. page explaining contractor registration - don’t know if it’s specifically listed in the document you’ve attached as that list is not all inclusive.

I am not a pro, obviously - but here’s my understanding :

The required slope for the curb and niche can be done with thinset with setting materials. A bench isn’t part of the design for my shower - so, I don’t know if the required amount of slope will be able to be accomplished with thinset alone as it is much wider/heavier than a curb/bottom or shelf for niche.

The pvc liner has to go all the way over the curb and extend onto the bathroom floor - I’m not sure how many inches on the floor are required by code. Also - CBU should NOT be used to make a curb typically. I don’t know if that changes if RedGard is used. I do know that a curb should NOT have any nail penetrations when a liner is draped over it - except along the outside face of the curb. I assume that your CBU has been attached to the wood used to make your curb by being nailed on the inside face of the curb + on the top of the curb. Both of those are NOT ALLOWED.

We are getting the shower liner installed today and water test is also being done. How do I go about mentioning all the issues with sloping and not piercing the liner so that my tiler does it correctly?

Unfortunately it appears like Massachusetts doesn't do bathroom / shower inspections like I saw California does. And from my understanding the UPC for MA is pretty lenient for shower liner design (aka it's not very specific)

Side Note: I was wondering if we were going to look for reputable GCs/ Tilers how would we go about it? It seems like the few GCs I've already talked to DON'T know the correct shower knowledge

The Homeowner's Guide to Hiring a Qualified Tile Installer (ceramictilefoundation.org)

Does anyone have a reference to any reputable tilers in the Greater Boston area who install Schluter-Kerdi Shower System or Oatey Shower Pan Liners correctly?

You might try posting for a reference at the John Bridge Forums for a Pro. Here's the link. https://www.johnbridge.com/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=4

Isn't Sal Dibalsi's company in Boston? He mentors others in the trade also, so if he has retired or is too busy he could probably provide a reference.

Ive posted on John Bridge and called/emailed Sal. Haven't heard much from either actually - thank you for the help thus far!

Jon, check the following link and specify your zip code with a 25 miles radius set. Are you thinking of hiring someone else to do the work or hiring a professional for consult? To be fair, certification of tile installers is "One" indication of experience and proficiency, but they will definitely be familiar with our industry recommendations and standards. https://www.ceramictilefoundation.org/find-certified-tile-installers