New floor install - underlayment and install questions

2 years ago

I am having about 700sq ft of Reward Costa Anzio installed:

7 1/2" wide, engineered European Oak, 5/8 thick and 4mm wear layer.

https://rewardflooring.com/products/costa-anzio

Floors are going on the ground level (above crawlspace) over plywood. My installer wants to nail down over construction paper but is happy to use whatever underlayment I provide. Any advice from the pros here?

Separately was hoping for some flush register grilles and was hopeful for some recommendations.

Thanks!

Featured Answer

SJ McCarthy

2 years ago

The floors are very wide. I would suggest the installer look at the installation instructions. A wide plank like this (7.5" wide = very wide) is probably going to need glue assist or full spread glue.

REW_Plywood_Backed_Engineered_Install_Maint_111220.pdf (shopify.com)

You will notice PAGE 1, para. 4 beginning with

NOTE: When nailing down planks wider than 6”,...Nailing planks wider than 7.5” wide without a full spread adhesive will void all warranties. (See below under ‘Nail + Glue Installation Instructions’ for details.)

Sorry but the nail-down "only" option is off the table. Now you really have to look at the substrate. This project just got a little more expensive. Just be aware of what you have chosen.

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Comments (7)

millworkman
2 years ago
What is there now for underlayment/subfloor? What do the manufacturer installation instructions call for in the way of underlayment/subfloor?
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I would go ahead and put down your underlayment (please use plywood and not luan) over the entire kitchen, install your cabinets (while ensuring you maintain the proper clearance for the dishwasher = read the dishwasher's requirements for clearance) and then install your floating floor. A floating floor can handle a dishwasher, fridge, stove, etc sitting on it because these items are "light" enough to "float" with the floor as it moves. That being said, a 1200 lb fridge is going to be too heavy. A king-sized water bed is going to be too heavy. A 150 gallon fish tank is going to be too heavy. See where I'm going with this? So long as the items are only a couple hundred pounds, the floor will float just fine underneath. The appliances are NOT anchored to the wall, nor are they so heavy that they will anchor or pin the planks to the subfloor (thereby preventing them from floating). Simply read the installation instructions for your dishwasher, find the 'minimum' clearance needed (to the counter top) and then add the thickness of the vinyl plank to that number. Adjust the height of the cabinets accordingly. Done like dinner.
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You need to ask for a separate quote for each line item. Here's some charges you may not have thought of: 1. Floor material by the sf (plus 10% extra) (I'd check the calculations, also). 2. Transition strips or other specialized molding (stairs?); sometimes has to be stained to match, depending on the product line. 3. Baseboard (you gonna keep what you have or choose something new while you have the chance?) 4. Glue (it's very expensive, and must be the exact type recommended by the manufacturer of the wood floors. Read your specs carefully and inspect the glue product when they bring it. 5. Demo of old flooring. Where I live, that was, as I recall, $2/sf for wood/tile demo and $1/sf for carpet demo. And disposal--better make sure about that. 6. Costs to move your furniture. Make a plan for that. 7. Lastly, floor prep. You won't get an estimate for this, because they can't see what's under your floors until you pull them up. It could be minimal, it could be....maximal.... and this "floor prep" line item was where I ran to Yelp and the BBB and the contractors' state licensing board, and anywhere else out on the internet to find out just how satisfied were all the prior customers. With whom are you entering into a contract ? I chose a local, family-owned independent retailer, in same location for 25 years, with about 100 stellar 4.5-5 star Yelp reviews. I read them all. I did my research because floor is a big-ticket item. I asked a lot of questions about which crew would be my installers, and I specified in the contract which ones would do my install. (The "A-Team" as I called them). I asked for things like: no quarter round (flooring cut more precisely so that the baseboard itself covered the gap; no transition strips in between the flooring and the 2 different types of tile that abuts the floors (this required some artistic ramping up of the wood floors (undetectable); picture frame details around the hearth. In the end, I recall install costing $5.50/sf plus glue ($2000), plus the cost of materials. Maybe it was more than that. It's been awhile. Lastly, you likely haven't thought through installing a floor on top of old floor. How will it meet up with abutting flooring? You will still have to removal all your baseboards and reinstall. That costs as I recall, maybe $1.50/linear foot (plus materials). Probably you will negate any warranty on the flooring. If you are installing near cabinets/kitchen, you won't be able to slide out your appliances.
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baltik
Original Author
2 years ago
Thanks SJ - I read that last paragraph as 7.5” is technically ok for nail down but not advisable. Assuming I go glue assist, what underlayment (if any) should I use?
SJ McCarthy
2 years ago
You need a product that ALLOWES you to use glue. That means the felt paper is out. There are very few underpads (underlayment CAN INCLUDE plywood...just so you know...it's a word that gets used both for substrate AND for padding...it's confusing and annoying...sigh...I know) that allow both a glue AND nail down.

QuietWalk (one of theirs) allows both actions. Once you start playing in this level of underpadding, you are getting in to the $1 - $2/sf for the product. Installation = $0.50/sf MORE and then there is the added glue (more money) and the added expense of the LABOUR to use both glue AND nails (it should add another $1/sf to your labour costs...which is added to the $1/sf for the underpad...which is added to the $0.50/sf for the glue...etc).

Like I said, these wide planks get expensive...very quickly.

And PLEASE check your humidity control options on your HVAC/Furnace/AC system. You MUST be able to control your humidity on a daily basis...even hourly! Absolute MUST. If you do not have that option on your system right now, please spend the $3000+ to upgrade! Do that BEFORE you install the wood.
Timothy Winzell
2 years ago
If the manufacturer allows nail/staple down installation of their engineered floor, that should be sufficient. Since your selection is NOT wider than 7.5", the warranty is valid. They won't address any issues with movement or squeaking though. I can imagine there may be a little more sound emanating from the floor but that would be acceptable to me, especially if one considers what would have to be done if your floor was damaged and required removal after being glued and nailed. If I was going to glue the floor down with a full spread adhesive, I see no advantage to nail/staple it also.

For a better underlayment I would recommend Aquabar B, which is carried by Home Depot.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/Fortifiber-500-sq-ft-36-in-Wide-x-167-ft-Long-x-7-mil-Thick-Aquabar-B-Tile-Underlayment-Roll-70-195/202592567?mtc=SEM-VF-F_D23-G-D23-23_6_FLOOR_AND_WALL_TILE-Multi-NA-NA-DSA-2150536-WF-New_Engen&cm_mmc=SEM-VF-F_D23-G-D23-23_6_FLOOR_AND_WALL_TILE-Multi-NA-NA-DSA-2150536-WF-New_Engen-71700000077168191-58700006540356281-39700059170875303&gclid=Cj0KCQjwhr2FBhDbARIsACjwLo33OGF8tiZIs8wUOKWMZ1XxG1JDAIsLbwsMH82Ahl0cZp9ethZdDe4aAsqZEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds#!bvstate=ct:r/pg:2/st:p/id:202592567
baltik
Original Author
2 years ago
Thanks Timothy, aquabar looks promising, do you think it will help with the squeaks or would a softer material be better?
Timothy Winzell
2 years ago
I may be an outlier when it comes to squeaks. Forever I've heard people claim that an underlayment helps reduce squeaks. My thought is that they are caused by movement and fail to see how a thin layer of something would reduce or eliminate movement. Something softer would seem to potentially increase the potential for movement and squeaks. Aquabar slows the migration of moisture in and out of the wood without sealing it completely. It's what we would use in your application, assuming your subfloor is within an acceptable moisture range. .

New floor install - underlayment and install questions

SJ McCarthy

Comments (7)

millworkman

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New floor install - underlayment and install questions

SJ McCarthy

Comments (7)

millworkman

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baltikOriginal Author

SJ McCarthy

Timothy Winzell

baltikOriginal Author

Timothy Winzell

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baltik
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baltik
Original Author