Star of the Nile was on my wish-list since 2011 but accumulated research on that rose made me take that off from my buy-list. Hoovb in CA reported that it shrank down in her alkaline & dry CA. It's not cold-hardy for my zone 5, and roses often die in my cold zone from dryness in winter. Flamenco Rosita is well-reported by cold-zoners, and it would have the vigor needed for your high desert.

The reason why I hang out in Facebook Fragrant Gardens with Pakistan rose growers at above 113 F is: roses which can handle extreme heat are also vigorous enough to handle extreme cold & dryness in my zone 5 winter.

Thank you so much Straw! I'm glad to hear your assessment because from photos I think I appreciate the slightly "wild" look of the Flamenco structure a bit more. The roses are going as a privacy hedge between my and my neighbors' backyard, and it will grow through a wrought iron fence. They're putting in a sunroom in their unused backyard that will fill up most of the space,, so I want to plant something pretty for them to look at while keeping my privacy. I def have alkaline soil! All the roses get put in raised beds but it's still filled with amended native soil, still very alkaline, still dry.

I lived in Minneapolis for a long time and never dared to grow roses. I wish I had tried! That's very insightful about the correlation between the Pakistan rose growers climate and your own. I don't have FB but there are times (like this) when I wish I did.

Thank you again, much appreciate your help.

Thank you Lilyfinch! So glad to hear that, and I'd love to see pics of yours if you find any.. How is rose gardening in CA vs TN? I grew up in Los Angeles in the 70s and 80s and roses were everywhere, almost a default landscaping choice. The Huntington Rose garden (and the cactus garden, oh my) is seared into my brain as the benchmark for gorgeous roses. But TN with more rain and rich soil might be just as luscious?

But TN with more rain and rich soil might be just as luscious?Like
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I know I'm butting into the conversation you're having with Lilyfinch but I just had to comment on this. Tennessee, although not very deep from north to south, is a very wide state from east to west. There is quite a difference in geography and weather from one side to another. I got quite a laugh about the rich soil in Tennessee.

That said, Flamenco Rosita is a healthy rose here in blackspot central. It is vigorous, hardy at least to z7a, a good bloomer, willing to perform in less than perfect conditions. I have it planted in a lot of shade in acidic, thin rocky soil. Pictures of Lilyfinch's inspired me to try it here. This is the second season it has been in its current position and it does not disappoint. This rose wants to be big so it needs some real estate.

Our conditions are different enough that it would be impossible to draw any conclusions about how it will do for you. If you have a local rose club, you might ask if any of the members have experience with FR. Good luck!

Thank you Kes, I appreciate your input! I now have the Flamenco's on order to arrive in early September so I'll get to discover how they do from direct experience. I'm glad you're having the opportunity to enjoy it also and that it's working out so well for you. :)

FWIW I had the same experience with Star of the Nile growing backwards.

cactusandroses: After reading Kes Z 7a E Tn excellent report, roses which are resistant to blackspots tend to be stingy in dry & alkaline climate. A good example is Kordes roses which grow tall & dense & healthy but less blooms in alkaline condition.

What is your annual rainfall per year? The report of Flamenco Rosita blooming well came from decent-rain regions (at least 40" annual rain).

Flamenco Rosita is low-thorn and among my 134 own-root roses, I notice that low-thorn bloom best in tons of acidic rain. I put the low-thorn ones like Sweet Mademoiselle & low-thorn Austin water-hogs in poor drainage wet clay, and they bloom best there. My annual rainfall is 38 to 40" per year, plus 6 rain-barrels.

The drought-tolerant ones that like alkaline & dry are VERY THORNY or with dense prickles (Wise Portia, Mary Magdalene, Pretty Lady rose). Mary Magdalene bloom well for 11 years with 80% of rain blocked out by a roof overhang. But Wise Portia died during spring flood, and Pretty Lady rose thrives for Cori-Ann's CA heat. Pretty Lady rose (dense thorns) thrive for zone 5 drier Colorado grower, but died in my wet clay.

Pretty Lady rose was non-stop blooming & didn't have to water it, until I moved it to partial shade & poor-drainage with acidic rain accumulated. It died in that wet spot. I would order Pretty Lady rose again, but I won't order Flamenco Rosita, knowing that low-thorn roses demand more water.

I read the comments in HMF about Flamenco Rosita, and folks in high-rain region raved about it, it might not bloom well for dry & alkaline region (same with big & bushy & healthy but stingy Kordes roses). Black-spot resistant roses like Flamenco Rosita and Kordes roses bloom best with tons of acidic rain.

In contrast, lots of dry & alkaline CA folks rave about Pretty Lady Rose. It gets my vote as the prettiest & glossy leaves, and I want Pretty lady rose again, since I'm lazy in watering. See below:

https://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=2.72448&tab=36

Flamenco Rosita is one of my favorites. I grew it for years in Florida and now for the past two years in Washington state.

It's one of those rose that bloom no matter what the weather. It's always one of my roses first to bloom. It stays looking good until it shatters and never balls.

A bloom almost ready to shatter.

The color is very unusual and the foliage is shiny abundant and clean.

I think that you made a good choice.

Straw, my area, the low foothills of Albuquerque, NM, seems to be getting 9 - 11 inches of rain a year, so supplemental watering is always absolutely necessary, for pretty much everything. Thank you for the suggestion of Pretty Lady, I will definitely take a look at it!

ValRose, thank you for sharing your experience with FR, I'm excited to try it! But I'll have to wait till September. The first available delivery was early July and by then it's just so hot here.

Thank you, everyone, for your help! There's many more roses I'd love to try but will have to wait till they come back into stock at the own-root nurseries.

Wishing everyone joy in the process!

Flamenco Rosita is bred in the United Kingdom. My experience with roses from UK: they need tons of acidic rain, esp. the low-thorn ones (Queen of Sweden, Golden Cel.) I have better luck with French roses for hot & dry summer, and the McCartney rose (very tall) is Pakistan's favorite for hot summer above 100. Liv Tyler was the few roses that bloomed with alkaline tap water at pH 9 and above 90 F in my summer.

Cori-Ann in hot & dry CA planted hedges of these heat-tolerant roses:

Roses that bloom in 100 F heat for CoriAnn in hot & dry zone 9b California: Falstaff, Homere, Summer Romance, First Crush, Peach Swirl, Don Juan, Madame Anisette, Black Baccara, Mitsouko, Pretty Lady rose. https://www.helpmefind.com/gardening/l.php?l=99.4895372...

Since I have rainy months as well as dry & hot summer months (July & August & Sept), I compiled a list of roses for hot & dry weather in Facebook group Fragrant Gardens. My username in Facebook is Claude Martin.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1412992132360557/permalink/2606955542964204

Thank you very much for the list, straw, I will research those roses you've listed here and see if any are available own root. :)

Cactusandroses, check out the roses noseometer grows--they are fabulous, along with his other plants as companions. He gardens in Albuquerque. I garden in high desert, too. We have 9-11 inches of precip almost all years and hot, dry summers. Lots of drip systems and irrigation here. I'm in zone 7 outside of Boise, ID, in the foothills and have alkaline soil. You should be able to grow great roses in that dry air--no disease. Diane

@Diane Brakefield, what is your altitude and what are your favorite roses? Are you on HelpMeFind? I feel like maybe I've seen photos of your roses in the past when I was searching for high altitude approved roses, but I'm not certain!

I'm not on HMF, but I've posted a lot of photos on the Rose Forum over the years, both as nanadoll and Diane Brakefield. I'll bet your altitude is higher than mine, which I need to check on for an approximation. I grow a lot of Austins, some Meilland, quite a few Carruth roses, and random oddballs. I'd say they all do pretty well. I do find that Olivia Rose Austin, which is really liked by a lot of forum members, just doesn't look great in our bleaching sun, though she photographs well. She kind of fools you. Munstead Wood does well even though it's a dark red. I like the lavenders and purples which do well here. Boscobel is a great rose here, as is Golden Celebration and Julia Child. What kind of roses do you like and what colors? I've found that brighter colors look best in our sun, even though I love pastels. My very favorite rose is Augusta Luise and my favorite purple is Twilight Zone, which holds its color here quite well. I like the lavender Love Song a lot. My roses get really big, so that limits the number I grow in my smallish garden. Plus I love to grow lots of perennials and some annuals, too. Diane

I've posted this photo several times before, but it's a favorite of mine. The yellow is Golden Celebration and the pink is Boscobel. Diane

Beautiful!! Boscobel has always been a favorite of mine in photos, so pretty! Even though it's not own root I have tried to buy it online but it's seemingly always sold out. My local nursery sells the roses like they're rock concert tickets, cordoning them off from the public until a certain day where you then have to wait in line for hours. I skip it, so no Boscobel.

I wholly agree that the brighter colors tend to age the best in the sun. I'm choosing colors that in a different climate I might have rejected as too bright.

Julia Child is such a perfect yellow that I haven't tried any others, but I just ordered South Africa to try. I love Leonardo Da Vinci so much! Sexy Rexy is a perfect pink. Beverly smells very delicious, and holds the color surprisingly well. I love how big the blooms are. Plum Perfect is such a nice color, I'd like a second purple so I'll look at Twilight Zone. I adored Mrs. B R Cant but she didn't do well with the cold, and Touch of Class is still in trial. Monsieur Tillier was gorgeous but didn't like the spring snowstorm and died, after making it through the winter. Ellen Poulsen is most beloved by rabbits and thrips and needs almost full shade, so while I really like this rose I think I'm going to let it go. Both the Kosters did awful and are long gone. Portlandia in my climate looks nothing like the marketing photos. Small boring blooms, a pure orange that fades to a muddy maroon/wine color with a burnt edge. I don't like it at all, so I'm rehoming it. Queen of Elegance, I'm kind of "meh" about it, but I don't know why, it seems like I should love it. Bonica doesn't take my breath away but it's cheerful and sweet and blooms almost nonstop. I like miniatures a lot and have a few (the rest, 1st year bands, didn't make it through the winter). Millie Walters is particularly beautiful to me, I used to like Pierrine the best but MW is more graceful as the blooms age and the true coral color is just so very nice.

I have plenty of space for more roses but water is very expensive and precious here so that renders me much more picky about what roses I'll have than if I lived in, say, Vancouver. I like a mixed garden like yours the best anyway! :)

@Diane Brakefield, I was on HMF and I found the person I had thought perhaps was you, it's Dianne with a southwest Idaho rose garden, Boise metro area! :)

I think she actually gardens in the country outside a nearby town. It's more of a rose farm look--or at least it used to be. Diane

cactusandroses: what type of soil do you have for your upcoming own-root roses? Alkaline and moisture-retentive clay like Diane & mine, or sand like Noseometer in Albuquerque, NM? Noseometer grows mostly own-root roses. Among my 134 varieties of own-root roses, the tiny leaves do best in sandy/loamy (I have to fix the planting hole with a bag of coarse sand). The large leaves own-roots like my dense & wet clay. Type of soil and amount of rainfall matter with own-root roses, but roses grafted-on-Dr.Huey like it dry & alkaline. Rose park's Gene Boerner (grafted-on-Dr.Huey) bloomed at 100 F, but my own-root shut down and won't bloom unless it's all day rain. Gene Boerner is almost thornless.

For own-root roses, the water-hogs are the low-thorn roses bred from England. These won't bloom unless all-day rain. The dense prickles or thorny own-roots have Rugosa or Centifolia heritage and can take dry & hot & sandy soil better. The low-thorn own-roots have multiflora-genetics and thrive in wetter soil. Roses with China genetics also take hot & dry better. I disagree with the below list for hot & dry climate with Abraham Darby since rose park took it out after spring flush, it can't even handle hot summer as grafted. Abraham Darby is known to do better in partial shade.

https://www.pswdroses.org/heat-roses

Thank you, cactusandroses. I think grafted Boscobel will do fine for you. I only grow two own root and the rest are grafted, some 17 years old. Here is Twilight Zone and Julia Child, both favorites--the JCs are 16 years old and going strong. I wish I had your space, though water is expensive here, too. Even though we're outside the city, we use city water for all our outside watering. If you're really far out, most people have wells for house water. Farmers use irrigation water from Idaho's amazing irrigation system, or if they have first water rights, some pump water directly out of the Snake River. Diane

The hills in spring.

@strawchicago z5, thank you for sharing all this information! I actually don't know what the soil is, I've never tested it. I do know it's somewhat hydrophobic, it's difficult to rewet when it dries out, so I try to only use it with plants like roses where I know I'm paying attention to the soil dampness. It's silty with some organic matter, a local landscaping company mixes it and they just called it "native soil amended planting mix".

The roses planted in it are doing really good. I'd love to dig out some of the clay in the yard and mix it in with the amended soil but there are just too many tree roots, I don't have any soil to spare!

Organic matter is hard to come by (inexpensively, I mean). I go back every fall to Minneapolis to visit and I swear that this year I'm bringing back bags of leaves that everyone bags for the city to take away, I'll bring back as many as I have room for! My only natural source of organic is pine needles and those take For Ever to decompose. Someone is gifting me with their old wood chipper so I'm gong to see if it's possible to break up pine needles with it. I also bought a fall "cover crop" mix to plant to start building biomass on my thin soil.

My neighbor has AD in a container, full sun, it seems to do quite well, although I personally think it's time for a bigger pot! It's a pretty rose!

@Diane Brakefield, the JCs are HUGE!! Is this because they are grafted? I finally planted mine that had been potted for 4 years, this is the first season in the ground so I'll see how big it gets, in the pot in four years it went from a band size to about 28" both directions. So floriferous but it would be a lot more magnificent if it got the size of yours. It looks so pretty with your yellow siding and red door! Twilight Zone is a very regal rose, isn't it?! Are the hills your view from your property? That is soooo soothing! What those swanky mediation rooms wish they could be. :)

Thank you, cactus. I don't know if roses will grow huge in your climate, but they do here. Part of it is the rose doesn't lose all its leaves due to blackspot, and so can put its energy into growth and blooming. You will have this advantage, too. I would think your soil is alkaline, also, like most soil in arid regions. Yes, those hills are right outside and across the street. To the east and north the mountains rise up behind the hills. Usually, they are tan, but look a little greener in spring. Surprisingly, Twilight Zone goes well with other colors, too. Here are more hills and mountains using a zoom lens. Those mountains aren't that far away,actually. A ski area is about 20 miles away. The altitude gain is huge. Diane

@Diane Brakefield, I was looking at your photos of your mountain view again this morning, so very pretty, the golden green hues!

About Twilight Zone: it's almost thornless with multiflora-genetics so it's a water-hog unless grafted-on-Dr.Huey. My Twilight Zone is own-root and likes soaking wet clay & all-day rain & partial shade. My clay is black gumbo sticky & wet plus I add ungodly amount of organics per year (50+ big yard-waste of leaves or grass clippings). Neighbors don't want to pay $4.50 per yard-waste bag so they bring to my garden.

Below is own-root Twilight Zone in 4 hours of morning sun, listed as partial shade rose so I bought it (not much sun in my garden). Someone in hot Texas stated that it fried in full-sun. I don't have much sun and my clay is soaking wet so I go after low-thorn water-hogs. Recently I started a DRY & FAST drainage bed so I'm after drought-tolerant & thorny roses.