Phooey!

Yeah.....no. Still not going there. I haven't gone there since the beginning of the pandemic, when people lined up outside. And then winter here, of course, I'm sure not going to line up outside. Plus Michigan still has its own state wide mask mandates.

Trader Joe's is so small and so crowded, someone is at your elbow all the time. It's a bit claustrophobic without a pandemic. It has just become too inconvenient for me to go there.

So, I'll stay away until more people are vaccinated and the numbers go down a bit, then I'll re-assess. I mostly ignore the noise from all the politicians, regardless of party, and follow the advice of the doctors and scientists, then decide what I'm comfortable with.

I do have asthma, so have always had an "out" from the mask mandate, and yet I wear them. I'll continue doing so until the data is better. I doubt that Trader Joe's has noticed that I've missed my two or three visits per year, LOL.

Annie

They stopped counting customers here a while back. I am a little disappointed that both TJ's and Costco have opted to ditch the mask mandate. Those were the safest places to shop during the pandemic. My husband would utilize Costco's senior hours. Will still shop both while masked. So nothing really changes. The plus is that we're fully vaccinated.

I've never been to a TJ's. There are currently only two in the entire KC area and neither one is anywhere close to areas that I go to often. Maybe someday when they build one on my side of town I will check it out.

I went to Home Depot to pick up something I needed today and about half the people were maskless which surprised me. Then I went across the street to Aldi and everyone I saw had a mask on.

Our TJ's does appear to still be monitoring with employees at the entrance and exit. We haven't had to wait in line to get in for quite awhile now. Still calm, pleasant and convenient for us, but their numerous locations here could factor into that.

To my knowledge, Los Angeles County has not dropped the mask mandate, unless you're outside and are fully vaxxed in uncrowded gatherings. Until they do drop the mandate, I don't think it matters what TJ's or any other retailers decide. Just depends on locations.

I just googled 'Kansas City mask mandate' and discovered that most of the counties that make up the metro area ended the mask mandate yesterday. I hadn't heard yet. I guess that explains so many without masks at HD, although HD still is requiring masks but apparently not enforcing it.

What could possibly go wrong?

Anybody else seen the news about the Yankees team?

California still has a mask mandate, but there are pressures from certain quarters to drop it completely. I went to Safeway yesterday and the security guard had to go after someone who was unmasked. It really puts these people in an awkward position as the local position (or conditions) haven't changed.

The Yankees outbreak is being positioned as evidence as the vaccines working to prevent moderate and severe infection. All but one? were asymptomatic. They all had J&J, which is probably is not the best news for that vaccine.

"so how do you know who is vaccinated?"

You don't. But the fact that YOU are vaccinated should reduce your risk down to almost nothing. Also the risk that you could infect others is virtually nil.

Since this is a decree that has come down from the CDC, who have now taken a more realistic approach to the current state of affairs as opposed to their previously over cautious one, I feel quite comfortable in following their guidelines. But retail businesses get to set their own rules so if they continue to require masks, I will wear one.

I don't know that Californian has declaired one way or the other just yet. People here had pretty much been-done-with-it for awhile with restaurants and stores opeing up way ahead of being legal; they just couldn't afford to stay shut any longer. I, personally, feel fine going maskless, but still carry a paper one folded in my purse just incase I should encounter a crowded situation.

I believe the majority of those on the Yankees team that tested positive were asymptomatic - which is something to consider, I think...

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/8-yankees-players-staff-test-010451482.html

I got the Moderna vaccine and am now as resistant as I'll ever be against covid. I did have flu-like symptoms after the second shot for a few days, but after that, I felt GREAT. I'm still going to wear my mask, because no way I want to get sick with something that potentially serious, or pass it on to my elderly Dad. MI is still a hotspot full of people who don't believe in precautions so I don't trust them. I was never much of a shopper before this. I have very little tolerance for noisy, crowded stores under the best of circumstances. Outdoor dining on the other hand, I might enjoy. But there are few nice options for that near me. A few, which I am looking forward to visiting some time this summer. Hubs and I have to go to another area anyway if we want to fine dine. Restaurants open and close fast around here even without the pandemic making things interesting.

I know my Mom used to always want to go to Trader Joe's when we visited the Detroit suburbs. I'd rather visit a plant nursery. I can't afford the fancy stuff and my home cooked versions of most stuff is far superior, as is the atmosphere at home . . .

I just heard here in Santa Rosa the masks come off in TJs! (I thought CA still had a mask mandate)There were several disgruntled TJ employees who posted on Nextdoor how unhappy they were with the decision!

I will still mask up in any indoor public places for the time being.

Just discovered the 'rona took out our Penzey's. Closest one now is in KC ...

There were several disgruntled TJ employees who posted on Nextdoor how unhappy they were with the decision!

Can you blame them? Good God! Everything they've gone through the past year! It's a little early to act like this is behind us.

Yeah, as much risk as patrons take, employees who are subjected to hundreds of people day in and day out are at far, far greater risk.

"-------You don't. But the fact that YOU are vaccinated should reduce your risk down to almost nothing. Also the risk that you could infect others is virtually nil.----"

According to information, the two-shot vaccines are 95% effective over-all for the original covid-19 virus.

This means to me:

1. for some unknown % of population, the vaccines are 100% effective, and for some the vaccines are 0% effective. The average comes to 95% effectiveness. You have to decide where you fall %-wise based on your age, DNA, and your immure strength. 95% to me means 5 out of 100 people will get sick. That is not very safe considering death is a possibility.

2. The 95% effectiveness was based on the original virus, not the many new more nasty mutations.

3. Today we still have to deal with 40,000 daily new cases and we are talking about total open. Taiwan just discovered they got 50 new cases, and they are talking about partial lock down. I think Taiwan have shown a better understanding of covid-19 always.

Masking is for me.

dcarch

I went to TJ's yesterday; every customer was masked, as were the employees. As I entered, I stopped off to the side and two employees were reading something and discussing it. I'm not sure if it was TJ's employee info about the unmasking, or if it was something from the gov't. But what I heard them talking about was that if someone cannot prove they have been vaccinated, they do not have to serve them. I'm not sure what that means, if they are going to start checking vaccine cards on unmasked people? That should lead to some dramatic interaction with the anti-maskers, anti-vaccers. I'm sorry they are going to have to deal with that and possibly be at more risk because of the deniers.

Your second number is more accurate--it's not really an average. It does mean 1 of 20 people will get sick to some degree. J&J has a larger percentage of people who will get sick. BUT, all of the vaccines are supposed to be 100% effective, or nearly so, for keeping you out of the hospital, and all are 100% effective for keeping you from dying.

What isn't clear yet is the rate of casual transmission of asymptomatic virus. Carol's point about the Yankees shows that people who are physically close and breathing together can still transmit the virus. They've said all along that the two shot versions, which prevent the virus, biomechanically, from getting into your cells, doesn't actually kill the virus, so you can still easily be a carrier. As more and more people get vaccinated, and fewer are sick, there's less virus to transmit, but that's a different thing.

I was about to go to TJ's--my first grocery store since this started--but not without people being masked. I'm vaccinated, but worry about potential secondary infections, which I'm prone to.

You all can still wear your mask. I think I'll be judicious about when to wear one... or not. IMHO, washing/disinfecting your hands - one way or the other - is still a very real need, and I will continue to do so religiously.

Right now allergies are my biggest problem and a mask doesn't seem to help at all.

LOL! Kate, that's the thing...sneezing with a mask on is ... nasty. But even masked, etc., I don't know how to tell if the unmasked sneezes around me are the virus or just ragweed. I don't need TJ’s that badly, and I'll hold faith with the wonderful staff, and just not.

I made a TJ's run this afternoon. I did notice there was no one at the entrance and exit doors this time as I mentioned in my previous post. Everyone was masked but I didn't notice any signs outside the store regarding mask requirements. Very calm and pleasant inside, especially for a Sunday.

I believe -

1, Sneezing is not a symptom of covid-19.

2. There is very little danger catching covid-19 if you have unsanitized hands, unless you pick your nose regularly.

3. No one knows for sure if the vaccine can give you protection after 6 months. 6 months will be here very soon since the beginning of vaccine roll-out.

dcarch

If you’re uncomfortable with the mask situation get yourself a KN95 mask from a reputable source and keep wearing one wherever you go. I’ve worn a mask religiously for over a year but what’s the point in getting a 95% effective vaccination if nothing changes. I’m venturing out without a mask in uncrowded environments. I’m not getting any younger and I would like to enjoy some kind of “normal” while I can as you never know what lies ahead.

The point is that while things are only slightly different now, once enough people are vaccinated the virus should die out for the most part from lack of hosts, and then things will change a lot. But if too many people refuse to get vaccinated, it will remain and keep mutating. Successful viruses don't kill their hosts, so perhaps a new dominant variant won't be so deadly.

“get yourself a KN95 mask from a reputable source”

Somewhat of an oxymoron there. (Yes I know they exist.) Looks like N95’s are available again; I’d opt for that if possible, if I had concerns.

Sorry about your Prnzey’s. I know how disappointed I was when mine first moved and then closed. Not surprising though, for a store whose business model is providing community jars for all to stick their noses in. That skeeved me out a bit long before covid!

I don't need TJ's that much either and will wait before going back. The one in Westchester typically gets pretty crowded, but we also go to ones in Culver City, West L.A. and El Segundo, when we happen to be in those neighborhoods. I haven't been to the one in Cathedral City yet, but we've driven by it, as well as by the ones in Rancho Mirage and Palm Desert. There is a Total Wine store close to the TJ's in Rancho Mirage, and it is the only store I know of here that has Sangiovese, and so we might go there one day.

The day they invent a mask that is comfortable and helps with allergies, particularly mold and mildew, will be a happy day for me. I had to wear those dang N95s a lot doing work outside with dead leaves and dirt and spraying herbicides, long before the pandemic started. Not fun. But better than the alternative. I always get sick when I am with large groups and travel on long plane flights. If a mask can help me avoid long bouts of illness I'm going to wear one more often now. But the tradeoff is they are so uncomfortable . . . But I got sick as a dog for two months probably from H1N1 or whatever other nasty flu was going around, from someone coughing behind me at the movies. It annoyed DH but I barely noticed it . . . until I got sick two days later. I was sick for two months! Lost a lot of my life. This is why I don't pooh pooh the average crud that goes around. For some of us, even that is debilitating. Teachers are sick a lot, this is why, all that exposure. It's not fun.

On topic though, not sure how dangerous grocery shopping is for virus transmittal. Not much body of research on that. It would be tough to figure out. Dangerous for workers, that's for sure, just like teaching. Just the general principle Pllog illustrated. More exposure to risk/people, greater chance of one of them passing something on to you. The rest probably depends on how well ventilated, sanitary and well spaced out the store is. Our local stores are getting more and more crowded, but that's because there are fewer and fewer grocery shopping options. Many of the smaller chains closing down in my area. If I could avoid a crowded place I would, have always loathed grocery shopping, particularly crowded places, it just makes me hate everything all that much more . . . Hubs does most of our shopping now, I send him into battle. He hates it too, but approaches it like a dangerous mission, he has a plan to get in and out quickly! We used to do it together, split up the store. But now that I am working, we're sticking with our current system.

Edited to add that hubs and I don't "live in fear" as is the common lexicon. But we are mightily uncomfortable and annoyed a lot of the time, in crowded situations. This is why we didn't go out much before the pandemic, we like hiking for our recreation. So many modern restaurants are designed to look "busy" and are echoing and noisy, we don't like that either so eat at home on the screened in porch to the sound of birds chirping . . . and lawnmowers revving!

For those of you who find the mask very uncomfortable, you may give mask brackets a try:

https://www.amazon.com/Upgraded-Bracket-TOOVREN-Silicone-Breathing/dp/B08W3CW277/ref=sr_1_9?dchild=1&keywords=plastic+mask+cage&qid=1621262106&sr=8-9

The bracket can make breathing and talking easier, and less fogging of your eyeglasses. If used properly it can also make the mask more effective.

There are many models to pick from find one that is best for your face.

I have found that you can dip the bracket in boiling water to make it fit better around your nose bridge, then dip it in cold water to make the shape permanent.

dcarch

For me it's the heat and moisture generated by my breathing out that makes it uncomfortable. I mostly wear the masks outside doing yardwork and grounds maintenance. It was also uncomfortable during long visits to my elderly father before we both got vaccinated, doing housework and cooking for him, etc. He refused to take any precautions, but still made it through to vaccination. Who knows how truly immune he will be at 89. The best thing for him will be when dramatically less amounts of the virus is out there spreading and replicating.

The only discomfort for me is my ears start to hurt after an hour or 2 of wearing.

I've been wearing Powecom K95s and they're comfortable on my face - it's just the ear thing that bothers me. I do flatten then rebend the metal nose piece so it's rounded, rather than pointed. I know about the behind the head fastenings, but they seem like too much of a bother.

I finally was able to get more information on the reason why the CDC said it was okay for the vaccinated to drop their masks. The research shows (as I understand it and hope to be able to say accurately) that because the virus can't proliferate sufficiently in vaccinated people, they think there is insufficient viral load to spread the infection. I do remember that over the summer, other research showed that the severity of symptoms correlated with the quantity of viral exposure. That is, if someone coughed a bunch of virus in your face (e.g., a nurse), a much more serious infect occurred than with a tangential exposure where a small amount of virus entered your body.

So this makes sense. Since masking and the other restrictions were designed to keep hospitals from being overwhelmed, more than anything else, unmasking the vaccinated isn't likely to create a surge, and, they say it serves as an incentive for the unvaccinated to get the shots. But...says nothing about those who don't take personal responsibility and go around unvaccinated and unmasked, spewing virus without any care for others. I think continuing to wear a mask in public is a fine way to show public responsibility, and solidarity and support for those who are not yet vaccinated.

I live in an area of people who never wore masks and are not going to get vaccinated. No way am I mingling with them and trusting their judgement until I know that virus spread rates are much lower in my state and community. Our state is following actual metrics and all along there has been a subset of the population that is rebelling just for the sake of having something to rebel against occupy their time and energy I think, not based on research or logic. I've been avoiding them and will continue to avoid them, happily. Their longing to be wrenches in the works is what is actually slowing down the rest of us in the group being able to return to less restrictive practices. If people can't be trusted to follow safety protocols and you are concerned with safety, you really can't be around them.

For me, I make decisions on what businesses to patronize based a lot on trust. If I fly I want to know the airlines safety record, if I invest I want to know the investment's performance track record, if I got to a doctor for surgery at a hospital, I want the success metrics for the doctor and hospital and the surgery outcomes, if I buy a car I want the performance specs, if I go to a hair stylist I want to see examples of their work, same with any other person I am going to hire for a job, I want evidence of the quality of their performance. When I interview for open positions, I'm prepared to present concrete evidence of my track record, and I expect the same when I'm the interviewer. So that's going to carry over on how I react to the actual metrics of the pandemic when making decisions on how to spend my time and money.

The CDC did throw a curve ball by such a brief announcement without a full explanation. Judging by 'the talk of the town'. And SNL's funny KateMcinnon's Fauchi skit.

Surprised a place like TJ's or especially Costco would lift their mandates so quickly.

I don't see that happening in NY anytime soon. We will continue to mask-up indoors for some time especially through the Fall flu season and will watch carefully how the variants spread.

Also to support unvaccinated children, those immune compromised, retail workers, etc.

I'm visiting another state in a county that, according to a NYTimes article, is the highest in vaccine hesitancy. (Delaware). We have stopped in a few places for fuel, a country store, etc., and all are masked and pleasant as if it is just the norm.

I do wish for a reasonable 'proof of vaccine' method better than a piece of paper easily faked.

We have very comfortable masks that have adjustable ear loops and a good nose wire that also wash well in a mesh 'delicates' bag. Still doubling up for now if distancing seems unlikely.

For some reason this is not going up....

Our TJ in Grand Rapids is still limiting people in store and requiring masks. I was there a couple of days ago and had to stand in line for maybe 5 minutes to get in. I don’t mind at all since that means the store is never overly crowded.

Ours here took down their masks required sign, but was still limiting occupancy when I was there last week. I wear a K95 mask in any public setting.

Two weeks since this post. I've been out and about a bit, including a week vacation in another state. 99% full masking. I feel naked without it. Such a small thing to do in support of our parents with un-vaccinated young children, store employees, our front line workers still taking care of un-vaccinated infected.

TJ stores are just so small and congested usually. Long lines. Even pre-pandemic.

I like the line-peepers in NYC during lockdown, lol. "don't buy all my parmesan crisps!!!"

Our TJ's here in SoCal now has a sign up asking customers to follow state/county mask mandates. I was there Friday and again yesterday. No crowds/lines and walked right up to a checker both times. Very easy and everyone was masked.

That's likely because CA still has a mandate. Here in FL it's a different story.

Carol, that's an understatement! DeSantis is evil personified.

Unless things change, the mandate here in CA is supposed to change on June 15 for fully vaxxed people.

No mask mandate in my VA town but most shoppers at TJs and other public spaces are still wearing them. That is fine by me.