I plant mine on the hillside where I'm hoping they will spread and help stabilize the soil.

You might try root barriers if you want to keep them contained, like people use for bamboo. It comes in rolls and you would just need to line the edges of the planting hole before you fill in the dirt.

The best thing is to get your plants grafted. As long as the they don't go own-root, they won't spread. Not many nurseries sell grafted gallicas, and the selection is small, but it's the easiest way to restrict the roses' growth. But for own-root gallicas I've done four things.

The bamboo barrier Slumgullion suggests works well in an actual bed, and it's really the only way to keep them in bounds when surrounded by other plants. But your gallicas will need ample space, even when contained, or they will decline over time. I tried using bottomless sections of plastic 55 gallon barrels, but after a few years, the roses started objecting. They had basically used up all the soil inside their collar.

As specimen plants in the lawn, I simply mow around them. Even then, they tend to creep into a bigger plant over time, but when they are stand-alone plants, it's not a problem. The only gallica I've really let get out of hand using the mower is Charles de Mills, and there IS no keeping him in bounds, lol. My patch is now a 20 foot diameter wilderness. Every three or four years I just bushhog it to the ground, throw down some fertilizer (a mistake???? lol) and turn my back on the destruction for a few weeks. Not many people have room or the inclination for that.

If you have a section of sidewalk that quarantines a part of a flower bed in your foundation area, then that works. But most gallicas are a little informal and unruly for a foundation planting. I've done it anyway.

Digging a deep trench around your rose and filling it with mulch, and roguing out any runners that cross into it is labor intensive, but it works. You just have to keep on top of it. The runners actually luvvvvv that loose mulch.

All that said, it's just best to let the rose be itself, and plant it where it can do it's thing. It's the nature of the beast to spread, and you're missing the true glory of the gallicas by trying to keep them contained. Most of them (there ARE exceptions...there are some very small gallicas), want to be big, rambunctious plants. Plant them where they can stretch and grow. They'll reward you with a truly glorious spectacle.

John

P.S. The first bloom of my new 'Marianne' opened today. Trust me, I'm going to encourage this gallica/china to get just as big as she wants to!

EDIT: Paul just informed me that Marianne doesn't sucker. So on one hand, I don't have to worry about her taking over. On the other hand, I WANTED her to take over, lol.

Lindsey,

As John stated, root barrier of some sort is the only way. I have suggested in the past that when planting own root Gallicas, get one of those 32 gallon yard waste buckets, and cut off all but the top 18 inches or so and dig a hole big enough to insert it in the garden. Then, plant your Gallica inside that (refilled with soil, of course). It is a small space and will eventually constrict some of the more robust growers (yeah, I'm looking at you, 'Charles de Mills') but for many varieties it will keep things manageable.

Applying a root barrier in an established garden is going to be a lot of work, I am guessing. Best to do this at the time of planting, ideally.

Grow them in heavy clay?

Thank you all for your replies. I had a couple of grafted Gallicas from Pickering, but they eventually died. The rest are own root. I planted them long before I realized how much space own root Gallicas might want; the result is an interesting tangle of Duchess de Montebello, Tuscany, La Belle Sultane, (Spreading) Pink Moss, and a very double Marbled gallica a friend found growing along a country road many years ago.

A flagstone sidewalk, which defines the western boundary for the European section, did not deter Tuscany which popped up several years ago on the western side of the walk. When that happened I took out suckers on the other side, one of which had matured into a bush about three feet tall. The next year Tuscany entered a substantial decline from which it is just beginning to recover.. Now I try not to interfere unless I have no other choice but to remove suckers.

I hope these roses will continue to do well despite being crowded. Although I have a large area here, much of it is occupied by big oaks and other shade trees and azaleas. Sunny space suitable for roses is limited, and the old once-bloomers have the best of that space.

Lindsey

@stillanntn6b I have a small ocean of 'Charles de Mills' (20 years old now) planted in heavy, heavy clay that is so hard when it dries that you need a jackhammer to penetrate it. Chuck doesn't mind. Many square yards of it now, and its spread outside the garden perimeter by at least another 8 feet.

This is such an excellent question! I am wondering what to do myself about my own root CdM and (possible) Amaible Amie. Both lovely and spread like raspberries. CdM also grows to 6 feet height here, at least the mother plant that produced my sucker grows that tall.

I am thinking that a barrel (or two) dug down like Paul suggested is the way to go.

By the way, can CdM be kept at 3-4 feet in height? What time of year would it be best to prune it? Thanks for any advice - I'm new to Gallicas and own root roses :)

It's so funny watching all of you talk about how to contain your gallicas...when I can't get mine to spread at all! I have several all planted on the hillside for several years, and so far have no meaningful spread to speak of.

Perhaps it's because my climate is dry, so they stay where the water is? Although some of them are in a location where there is watering nearby that they could spread to...

Maybe it's because they're still only (!) 3-5 years old?

Hi, Lindsey. I have grown Gallicas for over 25 years (in MN and OR) and have used several methods of management, including those mentioned above, in large and small gardens. What I have done the last 15 years applies to a SMALLER garden where the suckers can be easily detected and where a gardener can micromanage a planting scheme.

I garden in amended red clay in Portland, OR, in something like zone 8ish with drought summers. Global warming has definitely shifted our temperate rainforest to hotter and drier. I have planted many of my Gallicas in large, durable, injection molded 20-25 gallon nursery pots where I plan to slice stolons and propagate them for pass alongs, and I have planted several in my beds with non Gallica plants in between. I survey my beds almost daily for Gallicas sprouting up in places outside their bounds, and I either slice out the sprouts with a sharp shovel, or I tag them for ID and propagation to slice and dig them later. I do the same with Rose de Rescht, Indigo, Botzaris and other non Gallicas which began to sucker after 10 years. I trim my Gallicas after bloom and I water off and on when there is no rainfall, but I do not coddle Gallicas during our drought summers. Stingy watering after the bloom period keeps them just a bit tamer. Since my Gallicas are grown with non Gallicas and other shrubs or perennials in between, the Gallica foliage and canes sprouting out of place are pretty conspicuous. Sometimes the sproutlings annoyingly pop up in the middle of a daylily clump, and I have to tag and dig the entire clump in the fall, remove the Gallica stolon and replant the lilies.

Some Gallicas have a much larger sense of themselves than others. Charles de Mills is notorious, and for all his unsurpassed beauty, he will never set foot in my garden again. Fig-John once posted a photo of his glorious but earth devouring patch of Charles. It really gives one pause—sublime and terrifying! I grow Charles in a nursery pot. Some China-Gallica crosses are less aggressive. For instance, Cardinal de Richilieu requires vigilance but I manage him. Camaieaux is a slow mover in my garden, slow to build up size upwards or outwards. Keeping Camaieaux in check is like targeting lumbering, bumbling zombies in an old movie. Some varieties of Gallicas I love so much that I tolerate their wayward tendencies and call my constant work with them “relationship managment.” Tuscany Superb is a spreading hedge in front of my sunroom. I slice off pieces and root them and then transplant them to the bare areas where I want the hedge to fill in. TS is my absolute favorite Gallica...my favorite of any rose of all time...ever!

Paul Barden has bred a number of gorgeous Gallicas which are easier to manage. I am a HUGE fan of Barden Gallicas! I have grown and passed along several to admiring friends and acquaintances, I currently grow quite a few in my pots and garden, and I’m waitlisted at Rogue Valley for the others. To mention a few of PB’s tamer Gallicas: As Fig-John noted, Marianne doesn’t sucker at all. Allegra reportedly suckers very little. Ellen Tofflemire has been very manageable for me. In my experience, Rook behaves like Camaieaux. It is slower to build size and then easily kept in check. Paul is one of the only breeders that I know of who is actually reviving old rose breeding, developing roses as the were grown for centuries, embracing them as players in a show of changing seasons. Although Paul has also bred remontants, many of his creations are magnificent, fragrant, once-blooming shrubs which provide a spectacular late spring-early summer show after spring camellias, forsythia and lilacs and before hydrangeas, butterfly bushes, hibiscus, beautyberries and winter camellias.

I hope this info helps, and I hope you are not deterred from growing this magnificent, historical class of roses!

Carol

Lindsey, I forgot to mention one thing which is actually VERY important in my postage stamp garden. Except in the parking strip, I do not plant Gallicas near each other. I plant a conspicuous Mosses, thorny Damasks or Rugosas, dark-caned varieties like ‘Basye’s Purple’, etc.— something with really different canes and foliage—next in line. That way, I can usually tell which rose is which when a sucker appears. In my parking strip, ‘Camaieaux‘ and “Paul’s Unnamed Purple Gallica” (what I call a Barden rose that is not in commerce yet) are only separated by a clump of Iris siberica, but ‘Camaieaux’ is such a plodder that it’s usually ”PUPG” throwing out a rogue cane. Right now, I am letting everything build up in the strip, so I haven’t tagged and sliced. I also grow the Moss rose ‘Salet’ there and am waitlisted for the Barden Gallica ‘Rook’ which will reside beyond more irises and ‘Salet’. Carol

Parking strip with dark mauve Gallica rose “PUPG“ and ‘Camaieaux’ on the other side of the purple Iris siberica. Light blue Iris germanica is between “PUPG” and ‘Salet’. Click the photos to enlarge them so you can see the row of plants.

Mettebee,

Prune Charles in summer AFTER bloom to keep him to 4 feet tall. Experiment with how fast he grows in your climate, and prune accordingly. I cut my hedge of Tuscany Superb back by about 1/4 after bloom, but many of my taller OGRs get whacked by 1/3.

Carol

@portlandmysteryrose thanks for the advice. I'll consider where to put CdM so that I can keep a close eye on him!

So much excellent information here! What Carol says about planting roses of different characteristics side by side is SO true!!! This is also true if you grow rows of cuttings in propagation beds: alternate roses with different characteristics, or they will become hopelessly confused.

@slumgullion, my guess is, you need to wait. My Gallicas, grafted, were planted in hard clay and watered only the first year, after which they lived with an annual summer drought. They all suckered eventually. It takes a while, but it will happen.

By the way, I must express my unspeakable envy of everyone else's thuggish 'Charles de Mills'. Mine has never gotten over two feet tall, and its flowering is, ah, underwhelming. What did I do? On the other hand, the deeply unsatisfactory 'Duc de Cambridge' IS a thug, spreading far and wide and interfering with much better roses.

Thanks Melissa, I'll keep waiting I guess! My gallicas are all own-root...my CDM sounds somewhat similar to yours, only a couple of feet tall, although mine does give a lot of blooms. I always give him an extra dose of flower food and horse poop compost because I read somewhere that he's a very heavy feeder. Maybe that's what yours needs?

@Melissa Northern Italy zone 8 I certainly have never done anything special to CdM, so I'd guess it comes down to climate. I have a true winter, and *usually* plenty of summer rain; lots of humidity year round. My CdM forest is in decent, but shallow soil over a clay substrate. It's totally un-amended (other than the first year planting hole. He outgrew that many years ago). Once he did start to sucker, it increased exponentially every year, as the suckers suckered. The bigger the plant got, the faster it spread, because it had a larger perimeter to spread from.

You might try coddling yours just a bit with compost, and maybe water him like you do for your first year plants. I suspect he's just never got his feet under him. When he does, he won't walk, he'll RUN, lol.

John

Carol,

I enjoyed hearing about the way you manage your garden. When I first started 16 years ago, I planted most of my roses in wire cages which I made from hardware cloth--about 18 inches tall with no bottom--to protect from voles which are quite a problem here. (I lost two Roses of Sharon 7-8 feet tall to voles in the past year.) Now I am more inclined to plant one or three gallon pots with the bottom intact. You would be surprised how large a strong rose can grow when planted in this way. Sometimes I suspect that the smaller the pot the better, because the roots grow out of the pot more quickly and are less likely to get tangled and root bound. My Hickory Hill Noisette was planted in this way--Indica major as well, although I did cut out the bottom of that pot. Hickory Hill has canes 8-10 feet--Indica is probably 15-20 feet and puts on a show every year. Pots make it easier to move a rose if necessary whereas it's difficult and sometimes impossible to keep a rootball intact when moving a rose whose roots are tangled in a wire and trying to get the rose out of the wire is likely to kill it , I killed a tea rose that way a couple of years ago, but managed to get the Duchess of Montebello out of the cage when I loved it last year. It did die back to ground level by late summer, but has new growth now. I was relieved when Gallica leaves began to appear because this was another of the Pickering grafted roses

Lindsey

Lindsey, your critter proofing is pure genius! What we do for our roses, right? I’ll bet most of us have stories about the many ways we bend over backwards and garden against all odds to grow what we love. Old roses amaze me because they are both tough as nails and exquisitely beautiful. In my tiny garden, toughness can tip into aggression if I blink, but your Phoenix Montebello demonstrates so clearly the up side of a Gallica’s determined personality. I am celebrating DdM’s true-to-cultivar rise from her graft! It’s such a relief to spot that first bit of true foliage after a transplant. Carol

Sometimes what looks like disaster turns out to be an advantage. The grafted Duchess and Belle Isis were planted along the driveway in an area with too much shade and encroaching azaleas. I was forced to move Belle Isis first when one late winter day I noticed that it was leaning over and realized the roots had cut by a vole. Since the crown was intact and the weather still cold, I felt confident it would recover. This is another of my one-gallon successes. By the time I was ready to promote it to a larger pot or plant it, it was already rooted firmly. Today its long canes are sprawling on the ground with the weight of buds and blooms, some of which are twice the size of blooms on the other Belle Isis planted in a wire cage.

Lindsey