The OKNA 800 is the better window performance wise. Cost I do know it is considerably more than the 500 but I will let the replacement window guru's answer that portion.

Assume when you say "performance wise" you're referring to efficiency not functionally?

Correct. Although both are good windows and will function properly for a good long time.

To choose the Infinity in this comparison, you will need to LOVE the aesthetics enough to justify a huge discrepancy in performance. U value, air leakage, design pressure (ironic given the "stronger" pitch given by the fg guys). Every measurable area of thermal and structural performance favor the Okna. I would take the 800 even at the higher price, I assume that its still less than Infinity. The Starmark composite that Okna makes is the true comp to the Infinity and is phenomenal, but your dealer may not carry that line. That product solves the aesthetic issue with thinner lines and butt joined welds while still offering world beating performance.

The 500 is a nice window, ironically we've replaced Marvin Inifinity's with it due to air leakage if that is any indicator, but definitely not the window the the 800 or Starmark are.

Can't add much to the informed commentary above. Were the 800 and 500 quotes from the same contractor?

Were the 500 and 800 specced with different options? I would expect the Infinity to be more than the 800. Going with these 3 options 500 is the winner if a vinyl window will work for you. Since you have 38 windows I would take a little more time and look at some other Marvin lines and maybe Anderson others ( not Renewal). And maybe look at some other quality vinyl products. what do you mean by “processing the color”? You are kind of vague on the bid comparisons and what you are looking for in a window. I am trying to read your mind and I am throwing darts at what you said with a blindfold and holding my beer trying not to spill.

Keep in mind I am a left handed beer drinker and a right handed dart thrower, suck at darts and have never actually never tried throwing them blindfolded. The details are key.

alright, alright. After getting some clarification on the quote - the OKNA 800 is 33k vs. 42k for Marvin all ultrex Infinity. I know the 800 gets stellar performance marks, but I give the slide nod to Infinity for look. The 800 looks a little more bulky to me. Doesn't lose as much glass?

Based on Memory the Infinity is about 1/4" less than the 800 from the outside edge of the frame to viewable glass area, measured on the lower sash side jamb. In other words, slightly slimmer, not much.

While subjective, its hard to argue that the Infinity isn't a looker, its an attractive window. The question is, does that little bit of extra glass and appearance outweigh air leakage of .01cfm vs .2 +/-, DP of 60 vs DP25 or 30, a U value that is superior by multiple points when similar glass is used, and $9k to boot?

Have you checked with your Okna dealer on the Starmark? Again, that will even the playing field on the glass area and appearance while still crushing it on performance.

If you like your windows to feel like they are somewhat open...all the time...the Infinity is going to be the proper choice here.

Obviously I am joking, but those guys do leak air like a sieve.

"Obviously I am joking, but those guys do leak air like a sieve."

Not quite like a sieve but they are not the tightest for sure. You need to remember Windows people take words here verbatim you bully you..

Truth that. They will be an improvement over their current windows, but with air leakage rates of 0.27 vs. comparable windows in the 0.05 to 0.01 ranges...they will feel "open by comparison.

What does the leakage translate to in the end? Appreciable difference in comfort or is it marked savings? Noticeable differences?

a high air leakage rate translates to energy loss and cold air getting into your home as well as hot air in the summer. It also makes a difference in comfort. The lower the air leakage rate the better.

Sure, I understand lower is better - just trying to determine if I'll notice it in the end on these two. I really like the OKNA 800, just worried it will look too "vinyl" for our traditional home. It could be me but will the OKNA look more like a pocket replacement than the Marvin inside and out? The Marvin has a sloped sill that looks more original? Also open to suggestions on other brands. I'll inquire on the Starmark. Couldn't find it on the OKNA site unless it's the 600 series?

HomeSealed had a client yank you Marvin's that were less than 2 years old because of the drafts if memory serves me.

Someone must have money to burn if they are yanking 2 yr. Old windows because they feel drafty. Honestly, our windows are in pretty bad shape - but unless I get right up to them, I don't feel a draft

The curtains were moving like the house was haunted and they couldn't keep that room warm enough. I think it was a more fundamental issue than just that they didn't like the drafts.

Was it more of an install problem?

Nope. But I will let HomeSealed weigh in here. I do know that the windows were well sealed.

Sometimes the best thing is to let customers speak for themselves:

In replacing my windows, I first tried Marvin Infinity fiberglass double hung windows in one room. I hated them from the first night because the air infiltration was very high, the top pane would drop slightly letting more cold air in, and the fiberglass conducted the outside cold.

I replaced the Marvins within a few months with the Okna windows, mainly because of the low air infiltration ratings, and because it was the only high quality (window) in the area with the .01% air infiltration rating. After living with the Oknas over the winter, I was pleased enough that I replaced the rest of the windows with Okna . I have been very pleased. Customer Service after installation also has been very good.

-H.W.

The company that initially installed her Infinity windows was highly reputable and there were no issues with installation. They attempted many adjustments and even had the Marvin rep take a look to see what could be done, however the final determination was that the windows were operating as designed. I don't know the details, but she ultimately worked out some sort of a deal on returning them.

My own personal experience with Marvin and other windows within that range of air infiltration ratings has been similar. Marvin makes a nice window, it simply isn't with an emphasis on being air-tight. When a homeowner requests that type of option, we simply make the expectations very clear to avoid a very costly mistake.

To answer your question, is there a perceptible difference between an air infiltration rating at .2 and another at .02? Absolutely. Energy loss and comfort are both factors. A good air infiltration rating is often an indicator of quality as well, particularly when comparing windows of the same material.

Separate question: how does everyone feel about painted vinyl? I understand that the Infinity color is an acrylic that is somewhat baked into the process giving it a longer warranty. If you go with a color other than white on OKNA, my understanding is it is just painted on and the warranty is then 10 years. I understand that painting vinyl is a bit different. If I need to repaint later, is it a challenge or something that won't turn out nicely? My dealer days if it's all white, OKNA is a no Brainer (and agree), but doesn't reccomend other colors quite as much. Thoughts?

The warranty appears to be only 10 years, same as there Essential and Elevate lines.

Painted vinyl when offered by a quality manufacturer is very reliable. The paint will be formulated to accommodate the flexibility needed for that material, as well as the reflective properties that will prevent issues. As long as the light reflective value is 55 or higher you are in good shape whether applied at the factory or in the field, but there are many other reasons that factory applied paint is better long term.

The Kynar finish on Marvin is very good and one of the selling points, but the warranty is the same as most vinyl paints as todd alluded to. Slight advantage Marvin on that aspect, but it doesn't come close to compensating for the performance difference.

Kynar is Used on metal or metal parts only such as the aluminum cladding on the Ultimate series and can have up to a twenty year warranty.

"As long as the light reflective value is 55 or higher". Assume the factory color options offered by OKNA would qualify?

Pretty safe to say since it was mentioned by a Okna dealer. My guess all the vinyl companies will meet that rating. I have never seen a painted vinyl window at the 10 year mark , some in the 5 year range and they good. Keep in mind most companies are gonna have disclaimers regardless of the finish for an accepted amount of fade.

That rating really comes into play when darker colors are used, reflective additives are used to bring that back in line. I wouldn't go as far as to say that all vinyl companies will meet that, but most any good company will.

Todd is correct on the Infinity coating as well, it is not Kynar, its just acrylic with a 10 year warranty.

So bottom line - you wouldn't shy away from a color produced by OKNA?

I wouldnt, but I would also expect some fade at year 10.

Is the repainting process tricky on vinyl? Also any thoughts on Great Lakes EcoSmart?

I think the repainting process would be tricky. They would need tedious prep work and would need to be sprayed to look good, this would go be the same as with any Modern window. I am not familiar with the EcoSmart.

I've seen 10+ year old painted vinyl that looks fantastic, no, I wouldn't shy away from a paint color produced by Okna. I put my name on thousands of them each year. Its an acrylic like the Marvin.

Repainting? Definitely not an amateur job IMO, but the same can be said for repainting fiberglass or aluminum clad exteriors.