Replacement for large saucer magnolia in Zone 5, NW Illinois

3 years ago

Sadly, our very large (over 15' tall) saucer magnolia has been hit with scale last year. I wish we would have caught it sooner. We contacted a local and well respected tree specialist and they suggested treatment of four applications - three were done in 2020 and one is still to be done in April 2021. They are suggesting additional treatments and pruning. I'm just concerned that the tree won't bounce back as the infestation was pretty severe. I even reached out to a landscaper who works for a wholesale nursery and he suggested removing it and replacing it with either a serviceberry or Kousa dogwood. I don't care for Serviceberry trees. Anyone have another recommendation? What about hardy Eastern redbuds - do they exist? We've tried them before, but with no luck.

I'm in Zone 5 in NW, Illinois. The site is in full sun, clay soil. This would need to be a specimen tree as its the focal point of the front of our home. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

Sort by:Oldest

Comments (4)

Embothrium
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Saucer magnolias grow much taller than 15 ft. Anyway have a look at this tool, designed specifically for use in northern Illinois:

Tree Selector | The Morton Arboretum
bellarosa thanked Embothrium
sah67 (zone 5b - NY)
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
"What about hardy Eastern redbuds - do they exist? We've tried them before, but with no luck."

If you're asking whether redbuds are hardy in zone 5, they're dirt common in my neck of the woods (upstate NY - z5b), with many large specimens up to 20 and 25 feet tall. If you've had issues with them before, it may not be a "cold" issue, although some of the newer golden and "rainbow"-foliaged cultivars in particular are notoriously short lived and prone to sudden die-off.

Many of the large, healthy redbuds around here appear to be straight species types, rather than cultivars, although I have seen some of the purple-foliaged cultivars and weeping forms doing ok in these parts.

If you're still concerned about cold hardiness and like the idea of a redbud, you might also want to look into 'Pink Trim', which is a cultivar cloned from a specimen that was growing successfully in South Dakota (zone 3): http://ndsuresearchfoundation.org/northernherald
bellarosa thanked sah67 (zone 5b - NY)
Related Discussions
Need help transplanting a saucer magnolia
Q
Comments (23)
"...do all magnolias have large root balls?" I'd feel more comfortable saying that most should and that yours should. "How do I know if enough of the root ball is being dug up?" Someone else may be able to come up with a guide better suited for this situation, but here's (click for link) one that could give you an idea of the absolute minimum size (in other words, the rootball would need to be larger than what you'll see in this generic guide). "What does "fleshy rooted" mean?" The roots are much thicker and less branched than most other species. Sometimes they are described as "rope-like". "Is that a better time to move it?" As Bboy said, the best time would be just before or just as it starts putting on new growth. __________________________ "...sweeping generalizations...is never or almost never a good idea are misleading" I don't consider my comments as being even slightly more over-generalized than I meant for them to be (unless there's something I am overlooking). In fact, I tried to be careful to make statements that would be valid even in the more unusual/rare situations I could think of. "Japanese maples and magnolias are two trees that require loose, highly organic soil if they are to flourish..." and "Most trees - no soil amendment. Magnolias and Japanese maples ... most definitely benefit from it." Bboy covered this VERY well, but I'll add that from what I've seen the vastly overwhelming amount of scientific evidence agrees with Bboy's comments. "If you start with a large area, and maintain a mulch layer the chances of creating the dreaded bathtub are nearly nonexistent." No, actually, the amount of area has zero effect on this phenomenon. Depth can be a factor (depending on soil profile), but not area. __________________________ Ahhh, so we're talking a raised bed.... Raised beds/berms, placed on top of native soil, are not backfill, so amendments are not necessarily a bad thing. The "bathtub effect" usually doesn't apply to raised beds, but the soil interface issues still can (depending on the relative size of the bed/berm). However, as pointed out in the planting guide, organic components should probably be limited to around 5%. You could easily extrapolate Bboy's original comments above to this situation. Whether your soil blend is ideal or not is impossible to know without more info, but, as you said, it's too late to worry about that now. I'll place my bet that it'll be fine. (-: This post was edited by brandon7 on Fri, Jan 4, 13 at 22:44
...See More
Will saucer magnolia tree live in a container? Advice please
Q
Comments (3)
No, you cannot keep it in your house for more than a couple of weeks. It is a temperate zone, deciduous plant, and it needs the full range of temperate zone weather to survive long term, plus more sunlight and air flow than an indoor environment will provide. But yes, almost any plant can be containerized -- look at how successful Bonsai enthusiasts are at dwarfing species that, in nature, can grow to a hundred feet or more. The two challenges -- long term pruning and winterization. You will need to prune both the roots and tops to keep the plant size appropriate, as well as periodically replace a fair amount of the soil to keep it from getting depleted. Not a big deal once you learn to do this. The other potential issue is winter cold. I don't know where you are. If you are in zone 9 as you screenname seems to allude to, this would be a complete non-issue. If you're in a colder zone, 6 or North, you will need to shelter the root zone every winter, because soil in a pot is much more exposed in the ground, and sensitive roots can be killed by winter cold. People protect potted trees and shrubs by either putting the pots in a protected corner and mulching heavily, by burying the pots up to the rim in the soil and mulching, or by wintering in a protected but still cold environment such as a garage. Finally, be sure to pot this in the LARGEST container that you are comfortable using in terms of size and weight, because the plant can use all of the soil volume it can get. Consider using a plastic or foam pot because they are lighter and won't shatter if they freeze in the winter (for the most part!), and also use a lightweight soil-less mix -- believe me, I have quite a lot of potted plants, and you want to minimize the weight as much as you can, because its no fun trying to lug these things around when they weigh hundreds of pounds.
...See More
Magnolia for clay and wind, zone6
Q
Comments (24)
Poor drainage is an enemy of Magnolia. Are you more concerned about wind or early season freezes? Is your area subject to the latter? I typically plant my Magnolias on the northeast side as the soil remains frozen longer which keeps the Magnolias from blooming prematurely. As a tree snob I do chuckle at Magnolias planted with southern exposure. These are the two I'm growing now. The wind is wicked, beyond wicked. The snow will strip down to the grass in these areas. http://www.songsparrow.com/catalog/plantdetails.cfm?ID=4291&type=WOODY,&pagetype=plantdetails&plant_name=Magnolia%20Jazzy%20Jane%3Csup%3Etm%3C/sup%3E%20(%27KLMWW%27) http://www.songsparrow.com/catalog/plantdetails.cfm?ID=2815&type=WOODY,&pagetype=plantdetails&plant_name=Magnolia%20stellata%20%27Chrysanthemiflora%27 If you're concerned about the freezes go with NhBabs recommendation. That is one of the later blooming varieties and can reach a decent size. In addition the pink flowers don't look as dirty as the white flowers when you do get those early season freezes.
...See More
when to plant new shrubs and transplant others NW Illinois, zone 5
Q
Comments (4)
Ideally one would move established plantings when they are dormant or just emerging. The time depends on the particular plant, and experts recommend FALL. Right now is a bad time to move daffodils. If they haven't already come up they will soon. Their roots are growing even if the tops haven't emerged. Nonetheless, if they can't stay where they are, it would be better to move them soonest. Before digging up any plant have a new site prepared. While dormant bulbs can be popped into any hole and covered over, already growing bulbs need more space. Dig a hole big enough to accommodate the existing bed and about 6" deep. Now dig up the bulbs you want to move being careful not to damage them with the spade. Discard any that get badly damaged. Keep the bulb clumps together and set them in the new planting hole, spreading any roots. Replace the soil over the bulbs and gently tamp it, then water in well. Use the same general directions in transplanting hostas. The size and depth of the new planting hole will be different, of course. Transplanting established broadleaf shrubs requires removing at least 1/3 of the existing top growth. It is best if the plant is still dormant. If the barberry is a deciduous species, remove 1/3 of the oldest branches to ground level. If it is an evergreen species, remove 1/3 of the overall growth. Now, this is the general guide to pruning barberry, but because you will lose some roots during digging you may need to remove 1/2 or more of existing growth to make up for the root loss. Barberry root systems are described as shallow but wide. You need to start the dig far enough away from the base to preserve feeder roots, then use shovels to cut deeper roots beneath the plant until you can pry it up with some soil, place it on a tarp and drag it to it's new site. Considering that many barberry species get quite large it may well be easier to just chop it down and remove the stump. All transplanted shrubs of any size will need extra care over the following year. Water whenever a dry spell occurs. Watch for insect damage and disease, because a transplanted shrub has been stressed and more likely to be subject to further damage.
...See More
ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5
3 years ago
i am curious how much the 4 stage treatment cost .. would you mind telling us ...

if the problem is solved ... and it should be solved .. and the tree ought to recover ... period ... you shouldnt be thinking that it will recur.. if it was a completed job ... so there is some logic in waiting and seeing.. what happens this year... and suggesting to the service that provided such.. that they most likely promised to solve the issue ...

on the other hand... i can see the logic in being done with it.. since every time you see it.. your blood pressure probably spikes ... lol.. mine would ...

i would give it.. in tree time.. at least this year.. to see the result of the money you paid .... and then go from there.. in other words.. i would be watching in tree time .. not instant gratification time ..

anyway ... im at a loss how to suggest a tree for a spot in your garden.. without seeing the spot in your garden.. and its relation to the house.. etc .. how about some pix .. and we could confirm the ID with a pic of the plant and its leaves or flowers ... but i sure hope your service provider actually knew the plant ...

ken

btw: clay is not a tree choice issue.. its a planting issue which i easily dealt with .. EVERY ball and burlap plant you see in a nursery ... was grown in clay.. else there would not be a ball in the burlap ... you sure cant do that with soil that falls apart ... and the stuff that doesnt fall apart.. is clay ....
bellarosa
Original Author
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Sah, thanks for the info the Eastern redbuds. I'll look into the hardy variety you mentioned. Thanks!

Ken, the treatment was $120 per treatment - 4x total. I'll try to post pics soon.

Every time I look at my tree, I feel sad. No blood pressure spikes. LOL. I feel like I let the tree down by not taking care of it and noticing the scale sooner. It was mulched and pruned every year, but that wasn't enough. I have 3 other magnolias and am making sure to check them this year for any signs of scale.

Thanks for the info on the B & B. I figured that they are grown in clay as this would allow them to remain intact.

Replacement for large saucer magnolia in Zone 5, NW Illinois

Comments (4)

Embothrium

sah67 (zone 5b - NY)

Related Discussions

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

bellarosa
Original Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

Replacement for large saucer magnolia in Zone 5, NW Illinois

Comments (4)

Embothrium

sah67 (zone 5b - NY)

Related Discussions

ken_adrian Adrian MI cold Z5

bellarosaOriginal Author

COMPANY

BUSINESS SERVICES

GET HELP

CONNECT WITH US

bellarosa
Original Author