How exciting! I've known a few standard poodles and they were all great dogs. I assume you've googled "how to choose a standard poodle puppy" and also the Poodle Club of America. They have all the sensible advice about health issues, cleanliness, socialization, etc.

Have you had a puppy recently enough to remember how awful the first couple days are -- peeing and pooping everywhere, can't let them out of your sight or they'll get in trouble, hard settling at night, etc. If not, look at Reddit/Puppy101 and read the comments.

When visiting the pup/puppies for the first time ... remember these are not the only poodles left in the world. If it doesn't feel right for whatever reason, it's okay to leave, there will be more chances. Many puppies are sold at two months (8 weeks), but some of our best pups were 10 weeks or 12 weeks at the shelter. I think they benefited from a few extra weeks with mom and litter mates -- learning bite inhibition, how to play, etc.

Go with your heart dear! It won't hurt to go take a look. Glad to hear you have an opportunity. I know you really really want to hug one.

I would go visit and ask questions. My daughter bought a golden doodle for $200.00 he was the only on remaining out of the litter. All others sold for $900.00. She got him at 4 months old, he was the best dog ever.

Yes, mixed breed dogs (like mutts & golden-doodles) can be much healthier.

Purebred dogs have a significantly greater risk of developing many hereditary disorders. Mixed breed dogs are not always healthier than purebreds; however, purebreds are not "as healthy" as mixed breed dogs. https://www.instituteofcaninebiology.org/blog/health-of-purebred-vs-mixed-breed-dogs-the-data

My poodle puppy was the last one of a litter, so was my daughter's. DD bought hers last Sept, we picked the puppy up for her and potty trained him, now that puppy is with her at med school. We love both fur babies very much.

DD's puppy (Sept 2020):

Here is mine (April 2021), many of you have already seen this pic.

The only reason we were able to get our current Lab is because someone backed out. The prospective buyer was in the Army and the breeder was holding the puppy until he arrived back home but his tour was extended and he had to cancel.. The breeder has a small business and only has a few litters a year. We knew her reputation and were on a waiting list for her next litter. We were thrilled when she called - and our puppy was 14 weeks old when we picked her up. She kept the puppies and moms in a sun room off her kitchen and It worked out really well for us. The puppies were socialized with her family and kids and ours was nearly housebroken too!

A big reason why more and more dogs these days suffer from congenital problems and breed specific tendancies is because of the prevalence of ignorant and irresponsible breeders. It never used to be such a problem. That's the reason why mixed breeds tend to have fewer inherited problems, the absence of ignorant humans managing the process avoids the increased prevalence and concentration of problems that wouldn't result otherwise.

Purebred dogs from responsible and enlightened breeders don't tend to have problems so many others have. Don't rely on show breeders, they tend to be more mercenary than thoughtful. For an outsider new to a particular breed community, the best references would come from other informed enthusiasts or from a vet who knows about the practices of particular breeders. Price is not a good indication in any event. And I agree, puppies from better breeders are placed long before they're born. My vet-relative spent a fair amount of time finding just the right breeder for the breed desired and booked the spot (subject to availability in the litter) a year in advance. That doggie is mature, several years old, and has all of the desired breed's positive physical and personality characteristics and none of problems (of those that can be medically screened for and determined, like hip dysplasia).

Good luck.

Thank you, everyone for all your insights. I have a lot to consider. I need to find out why there is a three month old available, for example. I appreciate having a glimmer of hope, though. I will let you know how things turn out.

Summersrhythm, thank you for the great pictures!

Standard poodles have a whole different personality to toy poodles. I would hold out for a standard poodle, either from you breeder of choice, or a rescue standard poodle. No way would I get a toy poodle.

I'm confused. Is the groomer's puppy a toy or a standard poodle?

If it is a toy and you want a standard, then pass on the groomer's dog.

You’re welcome. Good luck!

A big reason why more and more dogs these days suffer from congenital problems and breed specific tendancies is because of the prevalence of ignorant and irresponsible breeders.

say this louder so the people in the back can hear you!

i could not agree more with this statement. it saddens me to see people pay exorbitant prices for backyard bred dogs that so often cost a fortune both monetarily and emotionally when they are lost to health issues that so often show up in dogs who are bred with no thought to genetics.

@Zalco/bring back Sophie!, you might talk to the breeder to see about getting on a list for a retired adult dog. oftentimes, reputable breeders will place dogs that have been shown/bred and then retired and have a list of companion homes. if this particular breeder doesn't do so, s/he may know others who do. this is how i got my current great dane and have another one coming soon.

and, of course, as has been mentioned, there are breed specific rescues but if you go that route, i would suggest trying to use a rescue that is foster-based. good luck with your search!

We have been standard poodle owners for over 20 years. I currently have a male parti boy who is grey and white. Started with a black standard 20 years ago who was my love. Then I rescued a white standard female who had issues. She was the sweetest dog ever but was a runner. Our current standard is from a reputable breeder and my brother and his wife love him so much they just got a puppy from this same breeder just two months ago. She is a black and white parti. They drove from North Dakota to our home in Wisconsin to pick her up. She is perfect, very smart and sweet. I think she has a pregnant dog currently. If you are interested let me know and I can give you her name or let you know her facebook page so you can see her dogs. Standard poodles are a great family dog. Loyal, smart, and funny. Their upkeep is expensive, though, requiring grooming every 6 weeks. Thankfully, I live in an area where costs are not too high in regards to grooming. My groomer does an amazing job and charges me 125.00 to groom 3 dogs, plus I tip her 25.00. Sadly, my little mini poodle lost his battle 2 days ago, so my grooming costs will be a little lower:(

While my dog is a not a poodle, he was the last one of his litter left at nearly 12 weeks. The reason why?.......he was not of show quality (has an overbite). Unless you examine his mouth, there's no way you would know and it certainly does not affect him at all.

He was also half the price as the show caliber dogs. And since I only wanted a companion, show quality was never a factor in my decision....personality and disposition was. And he has both of those in spades!!

You can ask why a dog has not been placed along with its litter mates, but it's uncertain if the answer will be the truth. This is a business transaction.

You'll be in this for the long haul. Two of our Westies lived to be 16+ years. My favorite was a healthy guy, show quality, from a novice breeder's first litter of four. We never neutered him, at the breeder's request. He was a joy. Our last was a breed rescue, a puppy mill product, never healthy, always requiring treatment and special food. It was a relief to put him down. (Something I only realized in retrospect.)

Between these two was a breeder's 'leftover' -- similar to the dog available to you. She was three months; had been crated all that time; was an emotional wreck and a runner. She never 'bonded' to any of us. She escaped our yard and was killed by a car when she was four.

Our first was 'mostly Westie', from a pet store. Healthy, loving, died at nine due to a rare cancer of the tongue.

I had a black miniature poodle as a wedding present from my husband, the best dog ever and I could pick him up. His name was Caesar.

I bought a min poodle 10 years ago from a breeder. He has thyroid problems and just recently diabetic so giving him 2 shots a day. I think he was interbred but we love him so much despite his problems. I just hope he lives his life out. Our last poodle lived to 18 years.

Thank you again for the thoughtful and considered advice. In the end, I could not go ahead and buy the poodle from the dog groomer. While I understand there could be a perfectly sound reason for having an older puppy, it turns out she had several, and I could not help but feeling uneasy about the whole situation. I am back to square one, which I think means another year of waiting ... such is life.

That's too bad. Are you looking for a dog to show?

Almost all of the dogs in my life have been either strays or a hand-me-down dog ( a beautiful 18 month old Golden Retriever whose first owner was an Air Force pilot in training & ended up having to board him when he got transferred). Or breeder leftovers, All were healthy through their adult years & well into senior years.

I've had three Shelties. The first one was a stray. The other two were breeder left-overs because they were out of standard. Too large, over 16". Which is what I want--a big Sheltie. The current Sheltie was both too big & has one tipped ear & one goofy ear. He doesn't care & neither do I. One we bought when he was 6 mos. old; this was almost 8 mos. old.

But I did have to hold off getting a Sheltie until I found the big boy that I wanted, passing on more than a few of the dainty sized ones. Looked for probably 8 months or more until I finally found him. Tough to really be wanting a dog but having to wait until you find The One.

zalco, i think you made the right decision. Maybe try talking to a vet or vets, express your interests and concerns, and hopefully receive useful references. Discount any tips from "friends", most people among the general public, even those active with dogs in various ways, don't understand or know enough to be useful. If the irresponsible breeding problems were more widely known and understood, they wouldn't be so widespread.

Or, adopt a mixed breed from a shelter. That works well for many, not all.

Just as a hint - if a lab or golden retriever is of interest to you, check out the Guide Dogs organization in San Raphael. Their breeding practices are monitored by their vets. They outplace dogs that for medical or mental reasons don't pass the rigid screening and performance protocols but many of their outplaced dogs are wonderful. We've gotten two wonderful family members from there, both at about 18 months of age.

Good call, Zalco!

Have you thought about what you expect from dog ownership? Why have you chosen this breed? Is it suited to your home?

I wanted a dog my DH wouldn't feel goofy walking. (No bits of fluff on a string.) I wanted one I could lift into the laundry tub and groom between trips to a professional. I wanted 'ears up' -- fewer infections. Short legs need less exercise. We don't allow pets on furniture in general; bench at foot of bed, one chair with window view. Short tails don't wipe out everything on a coffee table or bruise your legs with 'affection'. Non-shedding is real plus. No 'droolers'; whose idea was it to breed to those jowls and oxygen deprivation? Westies filled the bill for us.

You might check out the Facebook groups for poodle/doodle rescues, if you don't require a pure-breed. They're from all over the country, strays and puppy mill and hoarder situations. You don't have to keep the dog if it doesn't fit your family/lifestyle.

Ci_lantro, No, I am not interested in showing the dog. I love shelties. They certainly live up to their reputation for intelligence and playfulness.

Elmer, Thank you for the brilliant suggestion of asking a vet about dog breeders. Why didn't I think of that? I will check in with my old vet. I would get a golden retriever or a Lab in a heartbeat were it not for my allergies. I need a dog that doesn't shed much. There are few dogs as smart, affectionate and playful as Labs/retrievers.

Chisue, I've had a toy poodle in the past and while that dog is petite, its personality is much the same as larger poodles, active, intelligent and playful. It's a great fit for my family (though the nest is rapidly emptying.) You ask about suitability for the home as well, I have good sized house with a large garden and live in a very walkable city with lots of parks, dog runs and nice neighbors who enjoy one another's dogs tremendously. Walking a dog on my street involves lots of stopping for people who wish to fawn over your pet :-)

I never thought of short legs needing less exercise. An argument for getting a dachshund, another favorite of mine. As for drooling dogs, goodness, I could not handle that!

Abby, I have contacted poodle clubs via FB. It's been a great resource.

Thank you again, everyone.

My sixteen-year-old dachshund some days walks three miles on his stubby little legs.

Pics, lily, please ... I love dackels!

Here you go , Zalco. This is Wally although he's a tad greyer in the face now.

What a sweet face Wally has! Thank you, lily. BTW I love the cushions on your chair. Mixing yellow and beige is hard to do and you have done it so well.

Most vets know nothing about breeding and breeders usually go to a number of different specialty vets for various issues; ophthalmologists for eye certifications, orthopedics for hip/elbow xrays for certification, reproductive vets, etc. Your corner vet doesn't do any of that. Contact your local kennel club to ask about breder members. Contact a branch of the breed club for breeders. Your local vet does spays and neuters and knows little about breeders.

Yeah, sure, there are some good vets who do. We went to a general purpose vet 35 miles from home because he had the respect of area breeders who came from a 50 mile radius.

Thank you for your insights, sushipup. The vet I had in mind is on the faculty of UC Davis and specializes in oncology, so not really the corner vet who spays and neuters (he treated my last poodle for cancer back in the early 2000s,) but your point is well taken.

I am in contact with my local kennel club. I may check with some less local ones as well.

PS To be clear since my vet is an oncologist, my thinking was he might know some colleagues who know something about poodle breeders in Northern California.

https://poodleclubofamerica.org/activities-for-your-your-poodle/

May want to attend some dog conformation shows, great chance to meet many dogs and breeders.

Thank you so much, mdln. That idea would have never crossed my mind.

I so appreciate everyone's help. I am feeling a bit less depressed about this situation 😊.

My furry nieces compete in agility (one won 1st place in recent AKC international invitational); the shows are where my DS met the breeders.

"Most vets know nothing about breeding"

There are dunderheads in every profession and occupation but those aside, I promise you that vets are very well versed with breed-specific congenital problems that have developed and spread because of irresponsible breeding. Any particular one may not have a Rolodex full of all the breeders in their practice area but one who's been established in one spot and pays attention will accumulate knowledge of both the better ones and the troublesome ones over time.

An oncologist at UC Davis could be a very good resource.

Oh Zalco, I so wish I could help you. It's a tough place to be wanting a dog and not finding one, I know. I lost both my Sheltie & Lab within 6 months of one another. Starting looking very soon and thought I had found one--an adorable Sheltie mix--but he had already been taken. Then it was a long stretch of several month before finding another one. Too small, sketchy breeders, wrong gender, much too expensive. And, here in Wisconsin, finding an adoptable dog in a shelter is tough, Not many dogs and most of what was available was a pit or pit mix. Not a breed that I was willing to consider.

So, I looked off and on. Looked every day for a week, got discouraged & quit looking for a week or two. As it turned out, one day I looked but had told myself, "I'm going to look but I know I'm not going to find him." THAT was the day when I DID find my boy! That very afternoon, we loaded up & made the haul to the twin cities to get him.

If they are the small poodles good breeders wait to 12 weeks before they they let pups go.

Ci_lantro, thank you for telling me about how you found your new puppy. That is a sweet and encouraging story. How hard it must have been to have lost two sweet dogs so close to one another. I am happy your story has such a happy ending.

If it's not too much trouble, could you share a picture of your shelter? I consider the Reddit sub, r/aww a valuable mental health tool :-)

Eandhl, that is good to know.

How do I recommend Zalco to the US Diplomatic Service? <smile>

Go to the AKC website and look for Standard Poodle breeders. You could join the Standard National Club and research breeders. Breeders who do responsible breeding would be members of the AKC and the National Club. If anyone is not listed as breeder of the National Club, I would never consider buying a puppy from them. Too many genetic problems and best to buy from a breeder who backs up their pups with guarantees.

If possible, visit the breeder and meet the parents or at least learn about the stud.

When I see prices of pups sold in Petco, I'm shocked how many people pay so much money for puppy mill pups. Buying a dog is a big commitment. Take time to research and learn so you will both be happy.

Jane

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https://marketplace.akc.org/puppies/poodle

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http://www.poodleclubofamerica.org/

He always calls 'Shotgun' & i end up in the backseat. Yes, a seat tether is on the shopping list. :-)

How beautiful!!

Could I please make a couple comments that I did not see addressed??

You have received some very good info and a couple not to good..

YEARS ago I showed conformation/obedience in Junior Handling. I have always showed horses and bred to limited mares in 2000's. Key word here is 'limited'. I accepted mares who stallion and mare would compliment each other .

I also worked as an RN in high risk pregnancies and neonatal risk. Dna/hereditary diseases were part of many outcomes that ended well or not well.

I know you want a healthy well bred dog.

Each breed has its own potential health problems.

In order to breed out these problems specific to your breed a very reputable breeder WILL do testing of parents, grandparents at minimum. Yes- it is expensive which falls into the cost of a puppy.

Learn what 'linebreeding' is. It is interbreeding with close relatives which strengthens any chance of potential diseases. Learn what is and how to figure a coefficient.

Some tests need to be done every year, some are a one time test especially when looking at DNA/hereditary issues. That is important because some diseases do not show up as a young pup.

Do NOT let some unscrupulous breeder give you the "NONE OF MY DOGS and PUPPIES HAVE EVER HAD PROBLEMS!" That is BS- every breeder has had some problems if they have been breeding for any amount of time. And they are truthful. No breeder can keep track of every pup for its lifetime.

Some problems in SP are serious- vonwillebrands disease can have be fatal- especially if you are unaware that your dog inherited the disease- the dog bleeds to death from a cut or internally.

One of the most common problems in all larger breeds as a whole is bad hips. INSIST on parent/grandparent hip radiographic results. Do not take a breeder's word. See it.

Seizures are sometimes not noticed by owners- some breeders KNOW their dogs carry DNA for seizures but try to slide that under the table.

These things are very expensive to treat medically.

And.... if a breeder tells you that they have a puppy (8-ish -12 weeks old) that is a 'show quality puppy WALK AWAY!! You cannot tell that a dog that young is 'show type's until they about 5-ish months or older. Pups can look perfect at 8 weeks and grow up to be totally unacceptable to breed standards...just like your nephew/niece that was such a CUTE baby and grew up to be an ugly duckling. Or visa versa. Normally only a few pups of a litter for confirmation make the grade.... Unless judges are accepting dogs that 'sorta fit the breed standard'.

Lastly, do not give any bearing to "they are AKC parents and litter registered" AKC has ruined more breeds by letting poor specimen dogs represent the breed(s). IE: instead of telling competitors in the show ring that: "Unfortunately ladies and gentlemen. NONE (or only some) of these dogs fully represent the breed standards, so no dogs (or only some) will receive a place (ribbon) in the show ring today". Judges placed dogs who were inferior to standard yet placed them anyway instead of excusing them from the ring. This has created a glutton of poorly bred/represented breeds. Doing so creates a mass of unhealthy dogs that are not to breed standard confirmation wise.

Poodles are german dogs. If you are seeking a well bred dog that may not be registered until it underdogs health and temperament testing at two different stages of life 2 years old then research the German breeds standards which are much more stringent than American- I have never had involvement in poodle.

I know this is long and may be more than you are willing to research or do but to people who are serious about breed health it is important.

Good luck.

Two books that you might like to read are Ted Kerasote's Merle's Door and Puka's Promise: The Quest for Longer-Lived Dogs.

The first is more story book and the second delves into real science health issues of breeding, diet, vaccinations, etc. Mostly about Labrador's and Golden Retrievers, specifically but broadly applicable to all dogs.

I can't speak about other books--only these two that I have read myself. I so loved Merle's Door that I wanted to read the second book.

I am just thinking out loud here, if the groomer's puppies are no good, the well regarded breeder won't send anyone there. The high price might be the key issue for the puppies to go.

I agree with you Summersrhythm about a well-regarded breeder recommending puppies from another breeder. Might be the price but then again the groomer-breeder may not have been in the game for very long---and not have a long waiting list of buyers for future litters.

I would have quizzed the breeder about what she knew about the parent dogs & for her reasons for being comfortable with referring me to this litter. For example, she may know the breeder/ source of the groomer's parent dogs or even have referred her to sources for the dogs.

In the case of my last dog, the reason the breeder still had puppies at 7 mos. of age was because she had suffered a heart attack--been in the hospital and in rehab. Her son was watching the dogs but didn't pursue selling them. So, all kinds of things (like Covid, perhaps?) can put a hiccup in things & you end up having older puppies to sell.

Petco does not sell puppies! They support local recsue groups for adoption. Or at least that'd how it is in my area.

Thank you all for the additional advice and discussion. I will respond properly in the morning.