SubZero is the ultimate in refrigeration, and well worth the price. I wouldn’t have anything else. The same cannot be said for Wolf ranges and wall ovens. For many years now, their ovens have had a problem with blue enamel chipping on the inside. Do a search...you’ll find oodles of threads on this issue.

You might do better looking at other high end brands...Thermador, Bluestar, Miele, to name a few.

When considering a 48” range, you must also plan the hood for it. It needs to be 54” wide, and have the properly-sized ductwork going to the outside for that size hood. You will also be foregoing upper cabinetry to make room for the hood. And most people rarely need all the burners of a 48” cooktop. My preference would be a 36” rangetop (not a range, a rangetop) plus double wall ovens. It would make the exhaust requirements be easier.

What @Shannon_WI said. If you have the space, a 36” rangetop, plus double wall ovens is the way to go. Wall ovens are more ergonomic...the top oven is at eye level (no bending), and the lower oven is higher than ovens in a range/stove. Also, with wall ovens, you can be tending to the cooking food, without having the working oven heat escaping in front of you. There’s also no need to step aside to place in, or remove food from the oven.

Are you looking at all gas or dual fuel? If dual fuel, I would consider a rangetop plus wall oven(s). You are much better off to buy components Rather than a range.

What sort of cooking do you do? What kind of cookware do you have? How do you use your oven? Broiler?

I would look at BlueStar if you are considering all gas.

Someone recently posted that after all of these years of blue chipping Wolf may be changing out the enamel but it hasn’t been confirmed. They are redesigning the E oven and it may be darker enamel. We still wouldn’t know if this one would chip for awhile. This would be a case where I would buy the Wolf or BlueStar rangetop and the E oven over the oven they are putting in the new Wolf DF which is based on the M.

You can get great performance and super easy cleanup from a Miele or Bosch 36" cooktop.

Plus no added waste heat to your room. Less exhaust hood capacity needed.

Thank you for your thoughts. I don’t have room for a double oven and have already had the electrical run for the hood vent. I have five people in my family and cook about 4 times a week. I’ve been limping along with a single oven for the last 3 years and was wanting to have another oven. I felt that the 1 1/2 oven would suffice for my needs. I grew up on convection, but love cooking on a gas cooktop. My range will be duel.

If you think the range will give you sticker shock...have you looked into the makeup air system? That's what people mean when they ask you if you've looked into ventilation costs. If you are somewhere that pipes freeze, you will need heated makeup air, and for a 48" range you're looking at a >1000 CFM hood with a 10" duct. The hood isn't the bulk of the ventilation expense; it's the makeup air system. I also really wanted a 48" range, but then I did the math for what I would need (also in a cold climate), and not including installation the entire ventilation system was about $9k. Plus the $14k for the range. So that pretty much eliminated that as an option for me.

If that is doable for you, then great, look no further. If not, consider either a 30" range with double ovens (like the GE Cafe range) and a separate induction burner for when you need more range space, or if you really want the bigger cooktop, a 36" range with a countertop Breville. The way people rave about their countertop ovens makes me want to supplement my own with one (FWIW, I cook 5-6 times per week, mostly from scratch, so my range is a workhorse. It's also a 30" with a single oven, so I got a supplemental induction burner, and I probably would have bought a breville if we weren't moving).

I’ve been limping along with a single oven for the last 3 years and was wanting to have another oven.

Ditto others who have suggested a counter top oven. Be sure to get one large enough to fit a 9 x 13 inch pan.

FWIW, I don't see a 48" stove as much of an upgrade over a 36" stove. I think I would rather have a 36" with a larger single oven than the (smaller) large oven in a 48" range. Supplemented with a single wall oven and/ or counter top oven.

One of the great things about counter top ovens is the fast pre-heat times. You can be baking in one and, a lot of the time, almost done while the large range oven is still thinking about getting hot enough to bake.

Anyway, before you purchase, I would suggest that you research the oven dimensions of various brands so you know what will fit before hand. And avoid being disappointed after the fact.

A 20-30K total range expenditure, with the associated ventilation expense, for home cooking, cannot ever be “justified”. If it’s easily affordable, and you’d use it, it doesn’t need to be “justified”. It happens without discussion, or tradeoffs affecting the basic functionality of the rest of the kitchen. When you start justifying affording it, and making tradeoffs, you have gone down a really wrong road.

My last kitchen remodel was in 2006. I have the Wolf DF 36" as well as the Gagg combi steam wall oven.

Although I love my range, and have zero problems with any interior peeling, I am at an age that I prefer a wall oven when it comes to large heavy items. My combination of the two has been fantastic. Though my family was only 5, I could not imagine a day, other than holiday cookie baking, that I actually needed more than 36", especially on the range. My Wolf 36 takes about 15 mins to heat up, the Gagg about 5 mins.....like I said, it's a winning combination for me. The 48" is showstopper, but it is a bit frivolous for an at-home family cook/baker. That said, you only live once, and if it's your bucket list item and budget allows, you won't be disappointed.

Thank you for your feedback.

"not including installation the entire ventilation system was about $9k."

That is excessively extreme. Our commercial Accurex hood system including MUA was less than that.

No matter what range you get whether 36" or 48" or all gas or dual fuel or induction - you should have a proper range hood exhaust and MUA. In a cold climate with windows and doors closed in winter the health risks are similar regardless of what you choose.

A few quick range thoughts...

After having two Wolf ranges that we were fairly happy with we choose a BS RNB for our new kitchen because of the much better burners and are quite glad we did.

We went w/ a 48" for a larger griddle (24" + 4 burners) which we use as much as a flat-top as a griddle.

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FWIW, I don't see a 48" stove as much of an upgrade over a 36" stove. I think I would rather have a 36" with a larger single oven than the (smaller) large oven in a 48" range. Supplemented with a single wall oven and/ or counter top oven.

For us the larger griddle was the key element in going 48". We did think we'd miss the larger oven from our 36" but have been quite happy w/ the two ovens in the 48". That said, we've only done limited entertaining thanks to Covid so we may miss the larger oven more down the road but right now it doesn't look like it.

Not to hijack the OP, but....@opaone being that you have had a wolf, and a Bluestar, most of the questions are directed at you. I have been flip-flopping on the wolf vs Bluestar 48 with a dual griddle...just like you.

Problems with the wolf:

1) Ovens... the potential for chipping...fixed?? not fixed? I called Wolf an they said it is cosmetic unless the oven is glowing red...which is B.S. of course. And perhaps the M-series ovens that are in the new ranges don't perform very well as suggested by @wekick here (https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5187031/wolf-blue-porcelain-still-chipping).

2) burners. I love my cast iron and carbon steel pans for searing etc. I assume I would move to the griddle for many things I do in these pans, but the steak searing will stay in the pan I think, I think the non-uniformity of the wolf ring burners might end up bothering me....although I seem to do ok with by GE ring burners by just using the hot ring the center of the pan rather than the center. From reading many posts from @wekick on the topic, I want to make sure I post this (https://www.reddit.com/r/food/comments/760egm/update_i_reshot_heating_skillets_with_a_better/) as an illustration of the problem. Furthermore I have verified the existence of a hot ring when cooking with my IR gun. Proper preheating hides it, but place room temperature steak on a 500+ degree pan and it shows up.

Problem with the Bluestar:

1) Temperature uniformity in the griddle as you have previously posted. On the plus, the BS goes up to 500, while the wolf only goes up to 450....don't know that I would ever need more than 450. I recall you were annoyed at the lack of temperature uniformity in your Bluestar griddle when compared to the wolf....did you ever find a way to make it more consistent? Like some perforated heat shielding? Maybe replacing the single tube burner with a u-shaped burner (thus voiding your warranty of course)?

2) The star burners will also non-uniform, with a hot-spot in the center...which of course is ok if I am searing a single steak in the middle of the carbon steel pan. But then I wonder if I would miss the hot ring when searing multiple steaks!!

3) two gas ovens....Don't know if this is good or bad honestly. I have always had a gas oven, while my parents have always had electric.

4) My wife likes the look of wolf....even though they look pretty close to me.

Thought about the Hestan:

1) New company with no track record of service. booo.

2) 30K circuflame burner with flame on the inside and outside of the circle ...yaaaay!

3) Infrared griddle....yaaaay!!! Stainless steel griddle..boooo!! 24" available...yaaay!! but not with the 30K burner...booo!

4) Pretty darn ugly.

5) Stainless steel cooktop surface?? Seems crazy??

Ideally I would get a 36" gas range with a 24" griddle that performs like the wolf and 2 burners that perform like the BS, and a cooktop couple of induction burners to the side of the range...over a combi-steam oven. Only problem is that the range part don't exist. Or maybe I wouldn't need the BS open burners with the induction...but I have not much experience with searing on induction. Anyways, your thoughts are always appreciated....and you too @wekick...and whomever else.

One has to wonder if all the range manufacturers are colluding s.t. none of them will put out a range that is best in breed across the board (burners, griddle, oven)....that is a joke btw.

- The BS burners produce a quite even heat across good pans (steel, iron, multi-ply, etc.). Wolf does not.

- I do wish the BS had a better griddle but it works and is not worse enough that I'd want the Wolf burners.

- We do have electric wall ovens as well. For us and everything we do both gas and electric/steam are important.

More: https://bamasotan.us/the-kitchen/

@Randy you think the Heston ranges are ugly? I have to laugh because clearly everyone’s taste is quite different. I think they’re gorgeous and probably the nicest looking out of all the major ranges. Also, Hestan is not a new company. They’ve been making commercial Kitchen equipment for years. It’s just the residential line that’s new. I kinda liken it to when Hyundai broke into the US market and people were hesitant, but ultimately lured by the great warranty.

I say all this as someone who’s moving into a new build, and has finally decided to go with a 36” Hestan dual fuel. As someone who loves wok cooking, I was gonna go with BS, but that 30k hestan burner that shoots a flame straight up is quite enticing. I also think I want to go with an electric oven, and preferably with some kind of display. BS doesn't offer that.

I'm looking forward to cooking on a griddle but I'll just buy a slim steelmade that I can throw in top of a couple burners. But if I can spend the money I'll consider getting the 48" with a 12" griddle. I laugh at the people who complain about stainless steel. Like how many pancakes are y'all eating? I'd go into a coma if I had pancakes more than like twice a year. Do people not worry about their weight? I mean if you read enough people on here, you'd think they live in a diet of red meat, pancakes and eggs.

@Michael Green Perhaps I should have said "My wife thinks the Hestan is ugly". As for me, I do prefer the flat front look of the Wolf followed by the Bluestar by a pretty wide margin. I certainly could do without the 50's diner texture on the front of the range and handle.

Re: the Hyundai example. Don't know how old you are, but Hyundai first sold cars in the US in the mid-80. They sold a lot of cars, but they had a lot of reliability problems until the late 90's when they started to improve. So I think the Hyundai example is a justification for my hestantance (pun). Hestan may make good commercial products, but their commercial line is quite different from their residential line, which is quite new.

The 30K burner is indeed enticing. We don't do a lot of woking, but if I had that flamethrower in the kitchen, I would have to make an effort to learn.

Re; the stainless steel griddle. In my experience, stuff sticks to stainless steel much more than well seasoned carbon steel or cast iron. I don't really use my all-clad frying pans as I just like carbon steel much better. A rolled steel griddle can be seasoned to a non-stick state...it just makes sense that this would be preferable.

I assume the pancake comment is about he 24" griddle vs a 12" griddle? Well I guess I would say I can see myself cooking most things on the griddle that I would do now on the carbon steel frying pan. Also the griddle is essentially a thermo-controlled hotplate, or a linear French top....which just sounds super useful.

Glad you like your choice for Hestan. I would probably do the Hestan if I could get the 30K burner, and a 24" rolled steel griddle. I was thinking about trying to put some of their commercial gear in the house...but that is a really bad idea :)

I will say, I'm not quite old enough to know that history of Hyundai. But I will say it gives me something to think about.

It's an interesting point re stainless, carbon and cast iron. For awhile I was a big fan of cast iron, but I've soured on it a bit. I find it to be too much of a pain to deal with, and it's driven me back to stainless, with its ability to also handle high heat, but also have more even heat and MUCH easier to clean. Or I should say, much easier to be rough. I do like carbon steel though.

I do love the idea of a griddle. Never had one before. I guess for me it's about the amount of people in the house (just me and my wife), and the type of cooking I do, which is mostly Asian and south Asian, so I need one high heat burner. Of course BS does offer that 25k burner in the platinum, and with the open burner and being able to sit the pan right in the flames, it's good for that kind of cooking.

It's amazing what a difficult choice this is. As someone who's not a car person, I agonized far less over that purchase.

@Michael Green

Sounds like the wok burner is the important thing for you. The Hestan or the Bluestar is the obvious choice....except for this https://www.subzero-wolf.com/wolf/cooktops-and-rangetops/range-top/48-inch-sealed-burner-rangetop-4-burners-wok . 35K wok burner?? Ain't gonna beat that indoors!

Actually, I think you have a lot more protection with a car purchase. For starters you can take the care for a test drive....as you should for something that costs $25K. No can do for a 16K range!!! You can go to the dealer and inspect/dirve your car before the deal is done and you drive it off the lot, and the dealer who sold you the car is the point of contact for warranty issues. You know...a clear chain of responsibility is presented to the consumer. They deliver the range and install it before you have a chance to see if it works...any problems...too bad...call the manufacturer. Hope they take mercy on you. There are lemon laws to protect you in case you get a bad car. For a range??. There is a government agency that will force a recall of cars...for cooking equipment is this the case?

Can you afford it despite the sticker shock? Do you like it?

If yes to both, then get it.

@Randy re the car comment, I meant I couldn't care less what kind of car drive. I've had Hyundai, Toyota, VW, Infiniti. To me they're all the same, and just something to get you from place to place. As for that range top, boy is it cool. I just wish range tops were nicer looking. I think the whole range is so aesthetically pleasing, and I think wall ovens don't usually look good. You also can't really have the same powerful broiler element in a wall oven. Either way, I certainly have a big decision to make, but I'll start my own thread when I'm ready to do it, so I don't continue to hijack this one.

@measure_twice I'd also add, does it mesh nicely with your style of cooking? Everyone has different needs. So you need to find the right range specifically for you. And after that, you're right. If you like it and can afford it, get it.

So to let everyone know what I chose, I went with a 48” Thermador. After speaking with many sales reps and friends who had either a Thermador or Wolf, it just came down to which one I felt would be the best fit for me and my use. Thank you to all of you for your input. It really was a difficult decision to make.

I was gonna say whatever you do, font buy a Thermador... they make alot of noise and it takes about 30 minutes to boil to get water to a rolling boil in a Heston pot. Actually... none of that is true, sounds like you made a great purchase. there is no better or worse, just preference right?

Actually... none of that is true, sounds like you made a great purchase. there is no better or worse, just preference right? Every time I touch a red knob, a shiver goes down my spine as I dream about the number of meals I could cook for the residents of the Santa Ana homeless encampment, but I'm constantly reminded of how I just don't have enough time in the day. Sorry. Getting a little carried away.

Is it me or were there one too many people excited about having immediate access to a 30,000 BTU flamethrower in their kitchen with a Blue Star label on it? I have bad news for those that like to get high on BTUs, the truth is it just means you can cook with a bigger pot right? when you turn the flame up it just gets wider and wider it's not like it's going to heat a tiny pot much faster than a 10,000 BTU flame, true story. I

Is it me or were there one too many people excited about having immediate access to a 30,000 BTU flamethrower in their kitchen with a Blue Star label on it?I have bad news for those that like to get high on BTUs, the truth is it just means you can cook with a bigger pot right? when you turn the flame up it just gets wider and wider it's not like it's going to heat a tiny pot much faster than a 10,000 BTU flame, true story.

Is it me or were there one too many people excited about having immediate access to a 30,000 BTU flamethrower in their kitchen with a Blue Star label on it? I have bad news for those that like to get high on BTUs, the truth is it just means you can cook with a bigger pot right? when you turn the flame up it just gets wider and wider it's not like it's going to heat a tiny pot much faster than a 10,000 BTU flame, true story. gets wider and wider it's not like it's going to heat a tiny pot much faster than a 10,000 BTU flame, true story.