My "Blank Slate" is giving me nightmares! Please help my kitchen!

3 years ago

I am attaching a picture of my "blank slate" kitchen layout . . . so far, it has a sink! It has a sink because DH says "We aren't drilling into the foundation and moving plumbing."

I am truly stumped with what I can do with this space. My current cabinets have been ripped out, so that we could open up that wall on the right side of my drawing. (I had an L-shaped kitchen that ran under the big kitchen window at the bottom of my drawing and along the wall that DH just knocked down.) I currently have rows of fold-out tables and a laundry tub sink in my kitchen. We just keep telling the kids, "it's like camping."

If you are still reading . . . then you have realized that no real planning has gone into this renovation, and clearly, this pandemic has driven us to the edge of sanity. Does anyone have any thoughts regarding how I could create a layout of cabinets and appliances? I just cannot see past the missing wall . . . and I cannot understand how this is ever going to work. I am not skilled or gifted at this type of stuff. I am a computer programmer . . so that should tell you how "creative" I am . . . in other words, I am NOT capable of Design stuff.

Here are a few "spots" to keep in mind.

1. The small room in the upper right is the pantry.

2. The window along the bottom edge is 89" wide and 48" tall (so that wall cannot hold any upper, wall cabinets.) The window looks out into the backyard (if that matters)

3. The big long box along the entire left side of my layout is there to block off that wall on the left and markout a main walkway through our home. It represents our pathway and other rooms that come off of that wall . . . I just didn't want to draw all those extra rooms. So just remember that it is a pathway and nothing can be built on that left wall. Everything else is "blank slate" usable.

4. Most of the time, everyone enters our home from the garage and steps into this kitchen space via the opening in the upper left corner, that marked off pathway. (for your orientation perspective)

5. That big section of wall that DH took down on the right lets you look into the Living room now. (we are trying . . . and possibly failing at . . .open concept here.)

6. I am including a picture of my kitchen currently just for giggles . . . or it's a "cry for help" . . . I'm not exactly sure!

7. We have 9 ft. ceilings.

8. We live in a ranch, & style is very traditional . . . think, lots of crown molding and picture frame wall molding.

Featured Answer

Sara S

3 years ago

I think it might help if you made a list of what you’d like your kitchen to include. Like, are you getting new appliances? Either way, do you know what types and sizes of appliances you’ll want to use? Are you hoping for an table eating area in the space, or just a kitchen with and island (perhaps with island seating). Do you have an idea of how much total storage space you’d like? Will you have just the one sink, or are you considering adding a secondary prep sink as well (this seems it be all the rage now, and certainly makes it easier to make functional work zones). And finally, a more specific question, can you move the door to your pantry to the left so that normal counter depth cabinets will fit the full length of that outside wall? I think answers to many of these questions would both help others, and likely you, scope your remodel.

Now, to offer some companionship, we tore out a wall between our kitchen and living room about 3.5 years ago. During the first 1.5 years, I finalized and installed the cabinets on half the kitchen. (It’s more of a galley style space with a breakfast nook at the end, so felt easy to break into two parts.). And then we took over a year break! (And switched to replacing a bunch of windows in the adjacent living room). But, I finally finalized the layout for the second half right after the holidays, and am expecting the cabinets any day now. So it’s looking like it’ll be a 4 year project for us! It’s bold that you’ve removed everything for the kitchen. We uninstalled all of our old cabinets. But for the last 2 years have still been using a bunch of the old base cabinets. I found it helpful to push them around my space to try out different layouts. So we’ve been practicing our new layout for awhile now! This has been super helpful, but made it way easier to just ignore the project, as our kitchen has been function, if ugly. Your plan to literally tear everything out probably means you’re project won’t drag on for 4 years, and in that sense is a helpful motivator.

Good luck!

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Comments (14)

emilyam819
3 years ago
Please include more pics and a whole floor layout. And what needs to go in this “blank slate” area - kitchen and dining?
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buehl - yes, the big rectangle is the kitchen, and you were right about the gray walls. There isn't much contrast there - sorry about that! To answer some of your other questions, our home is 100 year old brick, so moving windows would be very difficult. The sunroom was originally a porch, and it was enclosed sometime in the thirties. It is not well-insulated and would be extremely expensive to convert into a kitchen, plus we have dreams of opening it back up one day. (It's a beautiful two-story, columned bump out on the back of the house). We are knocking out a wall in the kitchen that currently forms our mudroom (a six-foot wide "hall" from the back door to the sewing room wall) in order to enlarge the kitchen. As much as I like having a mud room, I would rather have a bigger kitchen. We are going to have hooks for coats in the side hall, and one base cabinet nearest the back door will have cubbies inside for shoes. I'm very strict on the no-leaving-your-junk-by-the-back door-rule as it is, because as you can imagine, 14 junk of 14 people adds up quickly! ;o) We do plan to build a storage area in the garage, right outside the garage entry, which can be used for coats and boots in the winter. Doorways - back yard door is 36", garage door is 32," and side hall doorway is only 29.5" Doors could be moved on the inside, like the side hall and/or bathroom/coat closet. I've thought about switching the dining room and kitchen spaces, but the large window seat would take up a huge chunk of the available wall space. I'm not sure how to work around that. laxsupermom - the windows in kitchen have cabinets under them now, and they are about 38" from the floor. The sunroom windows are 36" from floor, but as I said above, using the sunroom for kitchen space would be an expense we can't afford right now. bmorepanic - we can't take space from the garage for the pantry, etc., because the garage is so narrow (plus we drive a 15-passenger van and our "small car" is a Suburban!) but your second layout hits on something I've been toying around with. It has really inspired me and I appreciate you taking the time to draw it out! I love that I could have a "mini-mudroom." :o) I'd have to figure out where to get a substantial pantry and laundry space in there, but I like this idea! Thank you! If anyone else has any ideas, but please keep 'em coming!
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cat_ky
3 years ago
My suggestion is to find a good reputable kitchen designer and let her/him take over the job once you have approved the plan.
cawaps
3 years ago
Is the entire wall gone from the corner by the sink to the corner by the pantry?
Kate Hip
3 years ago
Without knowing dimensions of your appliances, if you want a range or wall ovens/stove top, and the other appliances you have, there's not a ton to go off of, but the first thing I notice is that you have a lot of space in the middle and very little uninterrupted wall space. This screams giant island to me.
I did a very, very rough, not to scale, quick sketch just to give you an idea of where my gut tells me I would put things. I designed our kitchen. I'm currently building the cabinets from high quality poplar plywood. Our reno kitchen is also a sight to behold. And, don't worry: the pandemic is making us all a little nuts. :)
Jessica Borrego
3 years ago
I agree with Kate Hip. An island would be the best way to utilize the space.
Lisa Warren
Original Author
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Thank you all for your comments and feedback! I will add some more details here to better define my project.

DETAILS:

1. Yes, getting new appliances.

A big, french door fridge (35.5 inches wide, SS)

Keeping current dishwasher (standard 24", SS)

Adding a drawer microwave (27" Sharp SS)

Still trying to decide about range or cooktop / oven. If I get a range, it will be 30" with a double oven configuration. If I select a professional range, it will be 36". If I do a cooktop / oven, the cooktop will be 36" and under-counter oven. All SS.

Big, deep single bowl SS sink 33" (requires a 36" cabinet)

2. Yes, I definitely want an island that we can have at least 3 stools at for teens to eat, etc.

3. No table. In the lower left corner, we already have a table and eating area. (It's located off the design drawing)

4. Yes, we can move the pantry opening to the left.

5. No, sadly, I am not getting a prep sink . . . darn it . .. hubby won't allow plumbing changes.

6. From the bottom right corner, on the right side wall, the first 9 ft. have been removed to open up the kitchen. The remainder of the right side wall is still there though.

DIMENSIONS:

* 9 ft ceilings

* Top wall is 210" total with 132" of continuous wall space (assuming I shift the pantry opening to the left more.

* Right wall is 252" total with the first 108" now gone. (at the bottom of the wall). The upper portion of the right wall has 120" of continuous wall space.

* The bottom wall is 140" total. It has a big window on it, so only lower cabinets can fit here.

I have two sink hookup options that do not require plumbing changes. I can keep the sink under the window, where it is currently on my drawing. Or, I can put it off of the top wall, about middle of that wall. I don't really like the idea of my sink facing a wall, so I would prefer it stay on the bottom wall, under the window.

Things I would like:

* A pullout base cabinet that will hold 3 trash cans (21" cabinet)

* I would prefer that most or all of my base cabinets be drawers. Is that a good idea? Or, will it look odd? If I have lower cabinets, then I want pull out shelves.

* I'd like a big island, and I think I could accommodate that.

* I would like to have a hood in my kitchen to help get rid of cooking smells. I like the hoods are are hidden inside cabinetry. (See pictures.)

* Off white traditional style cabinet doors.

PICTURES:

A. . An example of the kind of hood that I would like to have.

B. This is a picture of my old kitchen. You are looking at the bottom left wall area (on my drawing, for reference.) This is our eating area. So, no need to make any table fit into my drawing b/c we have this other area.

C. We remodeled that dining wall area in Picture B, and it now looks like this. My new kitchen will have the same brick for backsplash to tie it all together.

D. This is an old picture of my kitchen. You are looking at the wall that we knocked down (I drew a blue line over the portion of the wall that is missing now.) That window has been replaced with a 3 section window with upper mullions.

Again, thank you for taking the time to read all of this and thanks for offering opinions and advice. I really appreciate it!
emilyam819
3 years ago
Ok, if you have the option to put a sink on the top wall (pantry wall), you need to do it. Keep a sink under the windows because that wall is now useless for anything else, since the adjacent wall that used to hold the other appliances is gone. No worries, it’ll make a good cleanup sink, being close to the table.
Then do an L plus island at the top of your drawing. Clockwise around the L, I’d do fridge, 2nd dishwasher, medium sized sink for prep, pantry door, then stove on the adjacent wall.
mama goose_gw zn6OH
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Due to restrictions on sink placement, this is one of the rare times (maybe the only time) I'd suggest a cooktop on the island. I think you will hate having the clean-up zone so far from the other work zones, more than you will hate having the main sink against the top wall. You can rinse items at the sink, then move to the island to complete prep, facing the room and the large window. Keep a DW beside the current sink, as emilyam suggests, so you can use it as a clean-up zone for large gatherings, but I'd make that a dedicated drinks and snack area.

I drew a full-depth fridge with extra-deep counters on that wall.
ETA, although I drew the work aisle as 48", the island could be moved back to provide a wider aisle, and to tie into electrical for the existing island. I wasn't thinking about 240v vs. 120v for the cooktop, so maybe in that case 240v would need to be run from the attic, through a post, unless the new wire could be run through the existing conduit (I'm not sure how that works):

NKBA guidelines

New to Kitchens? Read me first.
Sara S
3 years ago
This is a lot of great new info! I have a couple follow up questions:

Where the wall was taken down, what’s on the other side? I guess what I’m really curious about here is what kind of aisle do you want to maintain between your sink wall and an island. If the new wall links to an exit, or anywhere that will get a lot of traffic, then it should be a pretty wide aisle. But if it links to something like a dining room, it could be more moderate.

For your fridge, will it have water or an ice maker? If yes, then I’ll assume it needs to go up on your top wall where your second water option is. Towards the left end of the top wall might be a good place for your fringe, especially if a lot of the house is beyond that area. People usually want their fringe both close to their main prep area, but also close to the other parts of the house (and not in a corner), so people who aren’t working in the kitchen can access the fridge without getting in the way of those working in the kitchen.

Are you interested in considering a prep sink also on that top wall? It’ll be easier to create a highly functional prep zone up in the top region of the kitchen if there’s a sink up there, especially if there will be a wide aisle between the main sink and the island.

What type of cabinets do you want to store your plates/dishes/cups in? Most people want their dish storage conveniently located to their clean-up sink. With your big window near your sink, you don’t have much room for wall cabinets. Maybe all your glassware can fit in the wall cabinets, but your plates might have to go into lower cab storage? If it were me, before I settled on having my clean up sink on that lower wall I’d first want to be sure that wall has sufficient space for your dish storage. With a dining area just to the L of that wall, it seems like I could be a convenient area for dishes, if that’s sufficient room.
Lisa Warren
Original Author
3 years ago
Thank you everyone. I’m starting to feel excited now. That’s a huge improvement for me from last week! I can see some other possibilities now. Y’all amaze me with your skills and suggestions.

To answer a few more questions:
1. The big wall opening on the right wall (where old cabinets used to be) is now open to the main Living Room. So that would be a heavy traffic path, I assume.
  The one traffic path that I included on my drawing, which runs down the entire left wall, is the pathway from the garage entrance to the backyard door. Those are the only two paths that are significant.
2. Yes, the fridge will have water and ice. DH says that we can put the fridge anywhere b/c he can drop a waterline to the fridge from anywhere in our attic. He says the problem with moving the sink elsewhere is that sinks have to drain ... so, I guess it’s the draining plumbing that is a problem, not the water supply to it. (Water tank / heater is located in the attic.)
ANOTHER IDEA:
My MIL suggested that I run a peninsula off of the lower right corner, and up through the new opening. (So sink would stay under window, and a peninsula would come off the lower right corner, and go straight up ... forming an L-shaped cabinets arrangement. Then, we could just expand our opening up the wall further to make a generous walk way.
Thoughts on this??
I’m envisioning an Island and a peninsula ... is that too much?
But, where do I put the fridge??
Sara S
3 years ago
If additional changes to that wall are an option, would you consider adding back a little of the wall that’s been removed in exchange for making a new large opening up near the pantry? That would leave you with nice flow around your potential island, without totally eliminating some items on the right wall. Knowing that the main living areas are over beyond the right side makes me inclined to recommend you put the fridge somewhere over there. Something like this:
Sara S
3 years ago
I’m still thinking about your optimal layout!

I have some new questions for you:

-do you mostly use just trash? Or do you use a compost bin for food waste? Use a garbage disposal for food waste? Are you a big recycler? Knowing this should help both determine the best place for your trash, and if other space should be allocated for compost/recycling. For example a lot of people really like trash by their sink because of generated food waste, but I put all of my food waste in a compost bin. So I prefer my trash more centrally located.

-does your family use a microwave often, to heat drinks, or heat up food? If yes, I’d make that similarly accessible as your fridge, and likely near your fridge (as that’s where most food you heat up comes from!). But if it’s not something you use all that much, except while cooking, then it might make sense to have it closer to your range.

-If you like some type of layout with a fridge on the right wall (be it the two opening like I just drew, or something like mama_goose posted above), then the logical place for the range is somewhere up on the top wall. In that case I’d encourage you to at least add a pot filler up by the range if not a prep sink. Otherwise it is a long way to walk from your sink down on the bottom wall up to your range when you want to boil some pasta. I think you’ll find it pretty convenient to have a second water source closer to your range.

-How important is symmetry as you finalize your layout? Some people can get obsessed with it, almost to the point of loosing out on functionality. Some people highly prioritize functionality and aren’t worried at all about symmetry. Personally, I prioritize functionality, but with that in mind, I’d make cabinet layouts symmetric when possible.

-Do you do a lot of entertaining? As an example, do you have a more formal set of dishes. If so I’d make space for those as close to your dining room as reasonably possible. Or if you entertain outside do you have dishes you use just for outdoors. If so, I’d try to make space for that relatively close to the backyard exit.

-Are there small appliances that you use regularly? If so, do you want them to live out on a counter? Or do you want an easy way to hide them, in something like a appliance garage? Or do you want them stored away, but pretty easy to access, and then put away? I don’t think your pantry is large enough that you’d want to use appliances in there, but I know that’s common for people who have larger pantries. Knowing the types of small appliances you use, and how often you use them should help decide where counter space will be the most useful to you.

Ok! That’s all I can think of tonight.
mama goose_gw zn6OH
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
I love the symmetry of Sara's plan! Since you already have 240v on the wall between the kitchen and LR, it should be easy to center the range on that short wall, but then the only place for the fridge would be on the other interior wall--ap 16' from the sink--which is almost twice the max distance recommended by the NKBA. You would also have traffic to the back door through the major work zone, although some traffic would be diverted to the other aisle. But it would be so pretty :).

The range could still go on the island, with proper clearances (or cooktop on island with wall ovens beside the pantry door), but the 240v for the island would need to be run from the attic to a post, or maybe run through the existing electrical conduit.

In either of those layouts I'd switch the DW to the right of the sink.
You could include a prep sink on the fridge wall, for rinsing items, then move to the island to complete prep (green lines). It adds an extra step, but in such a large kitchen, with the main sink under the window, I think you need another water source--and it can't go on the island: