Help with total kitchen and major home remodel
Hello,
We are first-time posters here and really appreciate the willingness on this forum to offer advice. We are in the latter stages of developing plans for a major remodel of our home in Southern California and are looking for some help specifically with kitchen layout. We love our architect and what he has come up with, and now we think the plan needs practical input from a kitchen-design standpoint. We love cooking and expect to spend a lot of time in the kitchen. We are a family of four, two working adults and two boys who will be in their teens once we live in this place remodeled. We have two small older dogs as well.
One of the major purposes of our remodel is create openness in our home and to take advantage of the views from our hillside house. The ground floor of house has peek of ocean views to the southwest, and generally has nice open sky/city views from that floor. We have decided after many iterations of the design that we want to move the kitchen to the side of our ground floor that has these best views. There are many code constraints operating on this remodel, so we cannot add any more square footage and any changes to the exterior walls require preserving wall elsewhere on the house, so we're hoping not to make more changes to the exterior than is shown on these drawings.
We are attaching an as-built of the ground floor for context and an architect's hand drawing of the new ground floor plans at 1/8 scale. The terrace seating area is still in flux but this is the general layout we want for the ground floor. The key constraint on the kitchen is: the windows on the west wall and south wall need to be big. There will be no over counter cabinets where the windows are shown. (The tree on the as-builts that would block this view is gone, fwiw.)
We have added labels to the plan for measurements that I thought would be helpful, but since they are sort of cryptic I'll list them here:
Appliances:
fridge 48" / counter depth
range: 48" induction (could change)
Windows:
west wall: 12'
south wall: 8'
Counter lengths:
Fridge to range: 24"
Range to sink: 72"
sink to corner: 60"
south counter: 11'
east counter: 7'
north wall (floor to ceiling cabinets and pantry): 12'
Island:
width: 6'
depth: 4.5'
Aisles (not labeled on plan):
range to island: ~48"
storage to island: ~60"
island to north counter: 60"
island to dining room table: 60"
Here are some of our concerns after reading guidance here and elsewhere about standards of kitchen design and good practice:
(1) Location of fridge deep into kitchen. Access difficult; need to pass through work zone. Distance from cabinets where glasses would be (probably north wall) quite far and requires pass through work zone. Location next to pantry bad for heat discharge from fridge. Also appears to have issues with clearance and impedance with pantry.
(2) Sink/dishwasher: too far from each other? sink too close to range? is it better to have more counter space next to range? Is the prep sink too small? it is drawn as 12" by 12". Is there sufficient prep space on the island? Could rearranging appliances result in a flow that eliminates the need for a prep sink?
(3) Dish storage/food storage: how do we deal with dish/glass storage without a lot of overhead cabinets? How to logically arrange these with respect to dishwasher and sink?
(4) Outdoor kitchen: any observations or concerns with respect to outdoor kitchen layout also very welcome!
If you have read and digested this lengthy message, you have our utmost appreciation. Thank you for any advice you can offer!
Comments (12)
cawaps
3 years ago
bevydana
3 years agoThank you, cawaps! I am glad there are others who have heavy reliance on drawers in the kitchen. We would definitely do drawers - we have cabinets now and I even though they have pull out inserts in some I cannot wait to have drawers.
Here is a cropped version of the plan that only shows the kitchen and the outdoor terrace. I hope that helps!
Related Discussions
Need major help remodeling...
Comments (19)I don't think it will take much to bring out the charm in your little cottage. I think it's already quite darling. With just a few touches, the front will be sweet. I'd start with lavenderlass's idea of planting vines and/or roses there to wind around the metal railings/posts. Then I'd paint the door and bright, fun color. I think it's screaming for a nice, cheery red. Add some nice shrubbery and flowers. I'd also leave the windows as is and add the flower box under the shorter window as previously suggested for color and balance. I love the awnings. They're in keeping with the character of the home and I'm guessing they serve a useful purpose. I'd paint them or leave them as is. The flowers, shrubs, and bright door might be enough color. I think the kitchen is wonderful. I would do whatever possible to preserve the cabinets if they are in good shape. If they're solid wood, the cost to replace with similar quality would be very expensive. If they look a bit shabby, I would not paint them but, rather, spend the time refinishing them. Just a good cleaning and some oiling might even be enough to do the trick. Some other redecorating, possibly new counters, and a throw rug and I think that kitchen will be amazing. I would either paint or remove the paneling in the front room and I like the ideas for utilizing the faux fireplace area. I don't understand the heebie-jeebies about the bathroom fixtures. If you use public restrooms, a good cleaning should be enough (if they're in good shape and working order, that is). Obviously the bathroom could use some paint and other simple redecorating. I think most of the work needs to be in the back of the house. I like the idea of making it the dining area. Enclose W/D in a closet and put a dining table in there. Then put in a nice patio door and build a deck or make a nice patio. It looks like some privacy walls around the deck/patio would be good as it looks wide open without much seclusion from people driving by. I love your new home and really think it's only a few touches needed to make it an incredible place to live. Have fun with it....See MoreMajor kitchen remodel--Long and Pic heavy
Comments (55)Baltra We definitely kept the light over the table. My father rescued it eons ago from an uncle's barn loft, and it hung over my parents table for years. Not what I would have chosen if I were shopping new, but like the corner cab and the table itself, it simply HAD to be in the kitchen. susied3 I love white kitchens, too. I just could not imagine one in this house. The support beam was made from narrow laminated plywood. Stamps on the sides of the support beam prevented just staining them, so the GC faced the bottom and sides with 1 x 12s ripped to the correct width and then stained to match the other beams in the room. I am surprised at how well it blends in. It is actually a couple inches deeper than the other beams....See MoreFamily Home- major remodel- kitchen/master suite
Comments (30)@smalloldhouse_gw thank you for taking the time to look/read! We’re looking to remodel an existing area of the house into the master suite so we Have fixed dimensions to work with. The other option is how the bed currently is which is against the left wall on the picture. This does provide a little more walking space around the bed and we may well keep it there in the future. The window on that wall partially overlaps the bed frame which isn’t the best look. Also- if we switched to a queen size bed instead of a king that would obviously allow more space but we like the king size bed. Another thing is that the window the bed is against is really the second floor at that point in the house- the way dips down to go into the garage underneath. So it’s not like anyone could walk by outside our window or anything. Currently all exterior items are remaining the same - no changes to exterior doors/windows at this time....See MoreMajor remodeling of kitchen help
Comments (19)thank you suedonim. that's what I'm trying to convey to lex. lex, I understand you replacing the floors, but hanging onto those old baseboards will be a mistake. they will have to run shoe molding next to the base if they don't take them up, in order to hide the cut end pieces of the new flooring. now you'll have this small, old wood baseboard, and another wood, quarter round shoe molding next to that. The whole point is to upgrade, not compound the current look. is this what you want? Trust me, you will never regret doing it. I know you don't want to change everything. and maybe you can keep the door trim and just paint it white to match the new baseboards. or, even if you choose to keep the wood trim around the doors, the newer white baseboard still looks better But if you're going through all the expense of new flooring, it doesn't make sense to keep that old, ugly baseboard. Or worse yet, try and match your new flooring to it! new floors are not cheap. why skimp out on a few hundred more and leave that baseboard?...See Morecawaps
3 years ago
mama goose_gw zn6OH
3 years agolast modified: 3 years agoI rearranged the short wall on the left to put the fridge there and used a shallow, side-loading broom cabinet on the end. I don't think there's a concern about heat transfer between a fridge and pantry--we see that line-up a lot--as long as you follow the installation specs for airspace at the back and sides. If you are still concerned, you can include a sheet of foam insulation between the fridge surround and the pantry, covered by trim. Also note--I voided the bottom left corner (27"), but if you want to reclaim that space, it could open to the exercise room, for storage in that area.
IMO, dishes should be stored near the DW, for the convenience of whomever is unloading, then an individual can retrieve a cup or bowl whenever he needs it. An exception is a coffee/drinks station, if it's far from the dish storage area. It looks as if you have a coffee center planned for the short counter in the top right of the kitchen (top right on the plan), so since dish storage will be near that spot, include a beverage fridge there. A small upper cabinet to the left of the MW could house a few glasses, if you really want them near the main fridge.
72" is too far between the sink and range, even if that was your primary prep space. 36" is the minimum recommended by the NKBA, but maximum should be a comfortable step, or two--48"-54". I'd move the sink over far enough to put the DW to the left, along with a 36" super susan in the corner. You would have the choice of storing dishes in drawers on the wall to the left, or between the clean-up sink and range. Either location is out of the main prep space and convenient to the DR, for setting the table, and to the coffee/beverage counter. Dishes, cups, and glasses don't need to be kept in upper cabinets; almost anything--even small appliances--- can be efficiently stored in drawers. Dishes in drawers.
I made the island 6.5', rather than 6', since each seat needs 24" elbow space, plus 15" leg space. The prep sink should be at least 18" wide, and I moved it to the other side to leave a nice landing space for incoming groceries to be loaded to the fridge and pantry. A trash receptacle is on the corner of the island, where it can be easily shared by prep and cooking zones, but if that's too far from the clean-up zone, I included another trash/recycle pull-out near the beverage center. The range was moved down slightly, to keep it centered on the island. I added legs to the island seating overhang, and an extra run of shallow cabinetry to help support the counter.Side-loading broom cabinet, top right:
New to Kitchens? Read me first.
(I'm not a pro, but I want everyone to have the best kitchen possible. :)
bevydana thanked mama goose_gw zn6OHbevydana
3 years agobevydana
3 years agoThank you so much, mama goose, for your incredibly helpful comments. We shared them with our architect and he too was so impressed by the time you took and the thoughtfulness in your comments. We met with him this weekend to discuss the revised kitchen layout, which is below. We would be very interested whether you or any of the other layout experts have any further comments. We are holding off on interior elevations of the kitchen to make sure that this is a good workable layout. Instead of voiding the corner, he designed a partial walk in (step in) pantry but on some shelves, there would be a recessed microwave that faces out onto the counter in the kitchen. The landing space for fridge contents is the island. He also reduced the counter outdoors to allow for a little more space - we don't think we need so much prep space outdoors. We are wondering where we would store drinking glasses in light of relationship between fridge, dishwasher and work zone.
Thank you for any additional thoughts!
Miss TKO 2015
3 years agobevydana
3 years agoMiss TKO 2015
3 years ago
3onthetree
3 years agoIf you had great views, I would rather have the living adjacent to those, and the kitchen would face and look over the living to the views. But, working with your desired kitchen location and keeping views from the living open, I would tweak the basic concept a bit:
mama goose_gw zn6OH
3 years agolast modified: 3 years agoAs I mentioned before, I would put a drinks center, with a beverage fridge, in the upper right corner of the plan. (As we're viewing the drawn plan). But if you want glasses for ice and chilled water near the fridge, and the MW sits on the counter, then you could store some glasses on a shelf above the MW.
You might also consider an appliance pantry for the corner, if that works better than the pantry as it's now designed. These pics are examples I keep on my desktop:
Miss TKO 2015