Well, I'll be! An "organic" systemic pesticide!

3 years ago

SNS 209 Systemic Concentrate "This unique organic formula contains rosemeric acid, a derivative of the rosemary plant, that the plant will uptake and spread throughout its vascular system. The presence of rosemeric acid in the plant cells forms a barrier that insects find distasteful. Once a feeding insect comes in contact with the rosemeric acid, they retreat and look for a more suitable food source. Contact with rosemeric acid can be fatal depending on the size of the pest affected and that pest's maturity."

"Suggested Uses: For use controlling and repelling Spider Mites, Whiteflies, Fungus Gnats, Thrips, Root Aphids, Scales and more on fruit trees and in vegetable, flower and herb gardens as well as in greenhouses and hydroponics.

This Product Controls These Pests or Diseases: Spider Mites (Tetranychidae), Whiteflies (Aleyrodoidea), Fungus Gnats (Bradysia coprophila, Bradysia impatiens), Thrips (Thysanoptera), Root Aphids, Scales (Coccoidea) and other plant feeding insects."

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roseseek
Original Author

3 years ago

You know as much about this as I do. I do know some systemics SUPPOSEDLY are stored in the wood (such as Lindane, an EXTREMELY dangerous pesticide which is used against Flat Headed Apple Borers, among others. It is used on stone fruit trees because SUPPOSEDLY it is stored in the wood where the borers are and kill the trees, but not in the FRUIT which WE eat. Lindane has a DANGER warning with the first line being, "Causes blindness".) Some go into the fruit. I've read that imidacloprid goes into the pollen where it supposedly kills bees. If this inhibits or kills thrips and other sucking insects, PERHAPS it MIGHT do something against Chilli Thrips? PERHAPS it MIGHT help do something against rabbits, squirrels, rats and maybe even deer? That would depend upon how strong the nasty taste actually is.

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Comments (15)

rosecanadian
3 years ago
Sounds wonderful!!! Will it be spread to the pollen?
jacqueline9CA
3 years ago
My garden is full of all sorts of bees - tiny ones, bumble bees, some which look like house flies but are really bees, and of course honey bees. NOT putting anything in my roses to kill or make the roses taste bad!
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SVB are really a bugger to control. The adult looks like a wasp and is easily overlooked. She comes around during the day a little before the flowers bloom so covers do work. I suspect they find your plants by sight. Uncover at night, during blooming, and the pollinators (bees) will be there early in the morning. It is said that nasturtiums help if planted around the squash hills. I've tried it last year and it seemed to work but I've no real proof yet. Looks pretty though. SVB is the only pest that has tempted me to stray from strictly organic practices. It's very discouraging to see squash plants fail just when they really start to produce. I've found that planting them in a half whiskey barrel allows me to examine the plants easier. It keeps the leaves off the ground too. You can also wrap aluminum foil around the base of the stem with some of it buried by piling dirt up around it. Gotta do this early though. Last year, along with the nasturtiums, I built a four foot square mezzanine around the top of the whiskey barrel out of furring strips. Then screened it. It gave a flat platform for the vine to rest on. No vine borers last year even though I saw a couple lurking around. Eventually powdery mildew got 'em. But what a harvest! Best of luck.
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Interesting. From Wiki centipede article: " Centipedes are found in an array of terrestrial habitats from tropical rainforests to deserts. Within these habitats, centipedes require a moist micro-habitat because they lack the waxy cuticle of insects and arachnids, and so lose water rapidly through the skin." Doubtful the soil of your plant is also housing enough critters to sustain centipedes, though possible. I wonder if they just find it a convenient place to stay when not hunting? If that is the case, repotting may or may not help if they are generally in the building and just hanging out in the pot. Keeping the soil less moist should make the pot a less habitable environment. Elevating the pot so air reaches the drain holes well (and are a bit harder to find if you're a bug crawling around on the floor could also help, if the pot is sitting on the floor (an assumption that a $50 tree is that big?) Some centipedes do eat organic matter, so if excess moisture is causing roots to rot, that could be attracting them as well. SM's are usually on the bottom of leaves, so any spray should be aimed there as much as possible. Are the leaves of this plant smooth (without hairs?) If so, wiping them with a cotton ball that is damp (not dripping) with rubbing alcohol can remove them. SM's can also be rinsed, if it's warm enough to take it outside and hose it down. If the soil/root ball is not 'shifty,' you can also lay it on its' side and do that in the shower. Try to avoid getting the soil soppy wet, I usually put the pot at the other end from the drain. For plants that get SM's while inside, it's usually an ongoing battle to keep them at bay until plants can go back outside. They can show up from nowhere, so prophylactic systemic treatment before bring in does not ensure your plants will not get SM's later.
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roseseek
Original Author
3 years ago
From the site..."Another advantage to the systemic action of this product is that you can use it without fear of harming bees, butterflies and other beneficial insects since they are not actively feeding on the plant." https://www.arbico-organics.com/product/sns-209-natural-systemic-insecticide/organic-insecticides?gclid=CjwKCAiAxp-ABhALEiwAXm6IydS3UaKlJ2_uK3hrOQpBU3ZcU2nyteEmuSrsNmr0QwOM85nS39OAWhoCvh8QAvD_BwE

The instructions state it can be drenched or sprayed, house plants or outdoor. https://www.arbico-organics.com/product/sns-209-natural-systemic-insecticide/organic-insecticides?gclid=CjwKCAiAxp-ABhALEiwAXm6IydS3UaKlJ2_uK3hrOQpBU3ZcU2nyteEmuSrsNmr0QwOM85nS39OAWhoCvh8QAvD_BwE
K S 7b Little Rock (formerly of Seattle)
3 years ago
This looks like a great option for folks who really need a pesticide to be able to grow roses. I wonder if it would repel Japanese beetles...
Embothrium
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Without checking the links posted above about this particular formulation I'll go ahead and point out that in the past at least one familiar inorganic product used by end consumers to protect roses worked by making their sap poisonous. With the effect that it controlled sucking pests but was not supposed to prevent injury from those that chew.
summersrhythm_z6a
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Thanks! I will give it a try, it might work on midge....and deer!
BirdsLoveRosesSoCalCoast
3 years ago
Sounds like an interesting development.

I am not plagued by a huge number of pests, but spider mites, white fly and scale are really hard to get rid of. Spraying with water and those little yellow sticky tapes don't work for me. I don't spray any pesticides, but might be willing to try soil drench for selective, especially troublesome things like scale.

It's good that they specifically say it doesn't harm bees.

I have lots of rosemary around my yard and it is always covered with bees - they love it. And I often see the Lesser Goldfinches eating the flower buds. I don't think they would be eating rosemary nectar if it was harming them...
Kristine LeGault 8a pnw
3 years ago
Jaqueline, those tiny bees are Mason bees. Arent they cool.

They reallyove my zinmias and rudabeckia

As far ad the organic systemic. it sounds good. I am just always nervous about using anything
wintercat_gw
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
"Organic" seems to be a magic word, but cyanide ectracted from almonds - even
"pure" organic ones - wouldn't be less lethal for being organic.

Roseseek, Imidacloprid gets into pollen and nectar. A year ago I did a soil drench for my honey myrtles and duranta. I thought there was enough time for the poison to disappear before those plants flowered, but they flowered earlier than expected and so I ended up killing dozens of bumble bees, which I really like.

Systemic is just that - systemic.
roseseek
Original Author
3 years ago
Systemics require varying time to be eliminated from the plants to which they are applied. Orthene required reapplication on roses for insects every two weeks. Now, I see Orthene 97 which is used on FOOD CROPS! https://www.domyown.com//msds/ORTHENE%2097%20Label.pdf I think I shall be ill...
BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
Thanks for the info, Kim! I think this is definitely worth a try, I’ve never seen a bug or mite munching on my rosemary plant lol. Maybe if it’s an effective miticide it may help against RRD too.

Agree about Orthene...back when I used it, it would make me queasy just mixing it up, can’t imagine consuming it. I sometimes thought I’d croak before the bugs.
roseseek
Original Author
3 years ago
last modified: 3 years ago
@BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14) you're welcome! I hope it helps! Actually, though, I HAVE dealt with spittle bugs on rosemary and lavender in several gardens over the years. So, there are insects which infest it. I should add that since both were either used for cooking or potpourri and since I could never live with the potential of someone consuming the plants even when told they wouldn't, I never did anything to combat the spittlebugs other than spray them out of the plants with strong streams of water.

Aren't the thoughts of it perhaps being effective against Chilli Thrips AND the mites carrying RRD exciting? Definitely ideas worthy of further exploration. A ver dear friend who has long been an oncology researcher warned me years ago to NEVER touch Orthene (acephate) because "long term, over exposure) has been linked to prostate cancer. As with many systemics, it's absorbed and stored in the body fat, so if you lose weight, you dump it back into your blood stream to do more damage. Fun? NO.
Rosefolly
3 years ago
I wonder if caterpillars are safe? Not that I want an invasion of caterpillars, but they are a requirement for most birds to successfully raise young, even bird species that feed primarily on seeds.
roseseek
Original Author
3 years ago
It appears to be most effective on pests which suck plant sap instead of eating the plant tissues. And, for the most part, it appears it doesn't kill the insect, but make it stop feeding on the treated plants. If the insect is small enough, immature enough, it MAY kill it, but, again, those are sucking insects which should have stronger concentrations of the rosemeric acid than a caterpillar should have, unless the caterpillar has eaten a ton of the plant material. I doubt anyone is going to treat their entire yard with this due to cost and effort, but usually you won't be raising caterpillars on your roses, but on other plants supplied for that purpose.

Well, I'll be! An "organic" systemic pesticide!

roseseek
Original Author

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rosecanadian

jacqueline9CA

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BenT (NorCal 9B Sunset 14)

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Well, I'll be! An "organic" systemic pesticide!

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