Me too! I actually formed some nice friendships through the forums, not only online but in person. Through the New England forum we had a twice-yearly CT plant swap, and that group organized a trip or two as well, and I got to meet some wonderful people.

I guess most people have moved on to Facebook and other social media platforms. I don't participate in either, so I do miss the activity that used to be here!

:)
Dee

P.S. And YES, I too would not be the gardener I am today without the people on these forums!

I don't do FB either. It's just too much! I do recognize some of veterans here, but not nearly like before! I guess when we get older, sometimes we live in the past lol! Things don't always change for the 'better', that's for sure! I have to really dig to find things to read, and honestly; most are older posts, but my new interests. I guess it beats a blank! I miss the old profiles though.

I remember years ago, I didn't join Dave's b/c you had to pay. I would have paid for the old garden web, if they would have kept it the same! (Sigh)

Definitely a lot less activity here for the past few years. Although it's that time of year any way, but, sure, even at this time of year, right around the Solstice, the winter sowing and seed trading forums used to be buzzing.

Do we think there are fewer people in the younger generation that are interested in gardening? Because really, a lot of the members here seem to be my generation. Over the years, I've changed and I'm not really doing all the gardening that I was doing 10 years ago. Or back in 2004 when I first started coming to Gardenweb.

I looked into Dave's but it was never about the money, it just seemed like a different place that I wasn't all that comfortable with.

I am so happy to have found gardenweb and winter sowing. I would not be the gardener I am without reading past posts from many folks that no longer post here. I do not do any social media things either. I am in the third year to sow and have my failures and successes. I am learning more now about the type of seeds I can sow. I have bought many seeds for the last few years. Due to my ignorance I have lost many. I am a person who always gardened but never read so much helpful information before here on this forum. I do a lot of containers and this forum is so helpful. There are amazing folks here but the winter sowing must not be an interest for many. Maybe people think that they know how to sow already so they don’t need to visit here but we newbies have to search old posts for help. I feel stupid asking questions sometimes. I have a few perennial seeds that I would like to flower this year coming and I am not sure if I should sow them now or wait til February. I have gaillardi seeds, baptisia seeds and some Shasta daisy seeds. I have hardy annuals to start too. I’ll do them in February. It is a great way to grow a different variety of flowers than what is sold at big box stores. I love the entire winter sowing idea. I have no lights in the basement but I still want annual geraniums so I need to try them inside. I will have to stay positive that they will survive until flowering.

Patti, I did winter sowing about 3 years in a row. I was lucky, there was a very active forum then and very enthusiastic people who shared all their knowledge. Trudi Davidoff was here then before she went off and started her own website about winter sowing. She always aimed for getting her winter sowing done by the Solstice, which was December 21st this year. But a lot of people on the forums, waited to sow certain seed until closer to spring. I've done both.

Wintersown by Trudi Davidoff

Actually, I see from her website that she has a discussion group on Facebook...

Facebook - Discussion Group Winter Sowing

She was always the forum expert who shared her expertise and seeds. I see she still has links to seed lists, etc, which I used at the time. Pretty sure, you can find any perennial or annual seed on some of these lists with a lot of useful information.

I just checked out the Facebook group and Trudi is still answering questions there. I'd say that is the best resource you could have.

And I just stopped into the Winter Sowing forum here for the first time in a long time. I'm reminded of the Winter Sowing 'zone wars' they used to have. Do they still do that? And I see a few familiar names still there. I see Trudi was still posting back in 2010.

Thanks prairiemoon. I have read many things that Trudi has said and have them bookmarked.I have many things about planting around the moon cycles and harvesting too. I think winter sowing is a great way to start seeds for us without grow lights. I do enjoy the results. I will sow the perennial seeds next week because this week is too busy. I started some seeds last year in February that grew well. They were all hardy annuals. I do not do FB. I am not social. I go as far as this forum and that is it. Lol. I will do more searching around later and see if I get more information about the seeds I have. Thanks again & Happy Holiday!

Hi Patti - I guess there are still a lot of information from Trudi on the GW forum. I started winter sowing because I didn't want to use indoor lights. I really enjoyed it and it worked!

As for using Facebook, I can see not wanting to post to a Facebook forum, but that first link called Wintersown, is Trudi's own website, not a Facebook group. And you might find more info you are looking for on particular seeds.

Seed Lists

Good luck and enjoy your winter sowing. Merry Christmas!

Over the summer, I had occasion to watch my own experience play out on somebody else's post.

A person posted about starting trees inside, as I recall. And somebody who likes to use ellipses (incorrectly) and somebody who likes to think she knows *everything* commented about this and that and the other thing that were rude and unhelpful. By the time they'd gotten done, the person who had started the post asked if everybody around here were like this.

Point is, there are a bunch of jerks who turn a lot of people off around here. And they are very vocal. I've started challenging them--especially ellipses guy--and I don't think it's winning me any points with anybody, but I made up my mind that I want to use the forum, and I will not stand idly by or just take the crap that they dish out.

Edit: Found the post. https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5956850/what-is-a-reliable-store-that-sells-conifer-seeds

You made me look, Prairiemoon2! I think I've traded with you before?

I haven't been to Trudi's site in awhile! I knew she was on FB, as a long time ago when I was, I had gotten some of the tomato seeds she gives away.

She does have a list, Patti! I googled winter sow list of seeds and found:

Seed Lists for Winter Sowing

Hope that helps! That's how I started out! I've got so many plants and beds now I can barely take care of them, but of course I'm planning on extending them! lol

Does anyone know what to bakemom? I think her name was Karen. My memory isn't great anymore. she sent me a newbie package once or twice. I do recognize some from before that still here in different forums.

"I would have paid for the old garden web, if they would have kept it the same! (Sigh)"

Ditto. This site was such a vibrant trading platform, primarily because it was structured that way. Being able to post exchange lists, and having a function which allowed a user to search those lists, generated a lot of trades. Those old exchange lists even showed up on search engines, which brought people to this site (searching for an heirloom was how I found Gardenweb) and generated even more swaps.

My exchange list was deleted during the transition, and only restored when I complained. It is still there, but I can't link to it any more, and it no longer shows up on search engines either.

Gawdinfever - Did we trade? Wow! Did you have the same screen name? I still have the spreadsheet of trades I was making in 2011, but it's probably not complete. And I may have done that earlier than 2011 and not kept a record of it.

We were having a discussion not that long ago, considering some of the reasons that Gardenweb has been so inactive, and one of my theories was that we were no longer showing up in a Google search the way we used to. I just have to wonder if Houzz bought Gardenweb, thinking it would bring more traffic to their site and they found it didn't do much for them, so they continue to marginalize Gardenweb. I notice I can't even sign in under the garden web dot com address, any more. I have to go to Houzz dot com to sign in.

I know that before it was Houzz, I would do a google search of my screen name and find pages and pages linking to just about every thread I was on. Now not so much. What is different? Did Gardenweb work at linking to Google?

I think you both are right. I too noticed how most everything came up in searches. That's how I stumbled across it! The search engine on Houzz is horrible! Searching in google doesn't pull much from the site. Their ranking in Google must be horrible. It's a lot of work to keep your rank up, and of course activity/popularity drives it up even more. I guess that says it all.

I hate that they took our lists, pics, and all the older posts away. They could have had so much more traffic with all of that! Zeedman: I used to love the feature where you could search by user or it would even search all the users' list by a particular seed! That was so very helpful when looking for a particular seed! And then it would tell you when they were last active, so you wouldn't bother someone who hadn't been active in awhile.

Prairiemoon: gawdinfever was my name before. If I remember correctly (timewise); most of my trading days were between 2002 and 2007. I did a few after that, but had so much, I had really slowed down and had enough to keep me busy!

Gawdinfever, I'm sorry, it's been so long, I don't remember! I'm surprised you do. [g] And I don't have a record of the seed trading or winter sowing I did then. I did trade and winter sow in 2006. I did it again in 2011 and I have detailed records of that. I did enjoy looking over my old notes, and see familiar names and see plants I forgot I started from seed. It was a lot of fun.

My focus in my garden has changed so many times and I don't grow a lot from seed any more. And I did get a set of lights too and did that one year. We did always have a hard time finding containers to use for winter sowing. We didn't really drink much milk in the house, so we'd always be searching for containers. And it did take a lot of focus over the winter, when I often really need to pay attention to non gardening goals. [g] But I hope I can do it again sometime.

I didn't realize they took all our lists and pictures etc. I did notice you can't really search for a member. They used to have a forum where you could see a person's ratings as a seed trader, I suppose that's gone now too?

I have read rumors that Houzz has been struggling and laid off a lot of people. I don't know why they took on Gardenweb and then proceeded to change everything about it, that made it work well. They undermined their own success with it and they drove people away.

You are all correct. That is how I found gardenweb one day. I was searching for an answer. I have been reading things since I stayed logged in on the garden web side. I do not have trouble for the most part. I have learned from many people that no longer post. I understand it as life changes and people have learned and moved on to their own gardens. I am still learning about winter sowing so I have questions. I don’t want to trade seed because I don’t need anymore seeds. I have bought things for a few years to get started. I seem to have bought more than I need for my small city yard. I will keep reading past and present posts here because I can always use the help. Merry Christmas to all!

There are still some seeds I do: petunia, nicotiana, purple hyacinthe bean vine, scarlet runner beans, veggies, of course, and cosmos. The last few years I've done more and more perennials and shrubs. Now I'm thinking of adding more trees. But I don't do nearly the seeds I did before. But I had nothing then, and I was also so addicted! lol

Patti, well I'd offer to answer winter sowing questions but I'm not sure I'd remember the best information it's been so long since I did it. Docmom is very experienced with winter sowing and has a ton of seed, she used to trade a lot. If she is still in the Winter sowing forum, she would probably be able to answer a lot of questions.

Gawdinfever - That sounds so good. I love growing all of those. I added Cosmos picotee, Allysum, California poppies and 'Violet Queen' Cleome in my full sun bed that keep coming back on their own every year. I also added Agastache Honey Bee Blue that I actually got in a trade at one point, that is still coming back year after year. I had seed for Malva sylvestris ‘Zebrina’ a long time ago from a trade but that only lasted one season. I have found someone that sells seedlings of that in a local plant sale n the spring, and added it back in again, but it still doesn't come back.

I have done nicotiana some years, but that doesn't reseed for me. I've grown both the Purple Hyacinth Bean Vine and the Scarlet Runner Bean. I bet I still have a ton of the Scarlet Runner Bean seed in the refrigerator. I'd be surprised if it is still viable. I keep trying to have enough of the SRBean for Hummers.

Do you start shrubs from seed? That would seem to take a long time to get to a useable size, but sounds like fun. Same with trees. What kind of tree seed do you try and where do you get it?

And Merry Christmas to all!

No shrubs from seed. Tree seeds are conifer and first time for me. Actually stratifying in the fridge now. I got the seed off of Etsy of all places! Mugo Pine, Korean Fir Tree (Abies koreana), and Fraser Fir Abies.

My nicotiana doesn't 'usually' come back from seed, because I heap compost and leaves on the beds in fall. I guess I cover it all up! I love the hummers and plant a LOT of things just for them! I still have Malva Zebrina seeds! If you want some I could mail you some! Mine never came back except one time. Cleome I keep ripping out because it wants to take over the world, as did Agastache! lol

"I had seed for Malva sylvestris ‘Zebrina’ a long time ago from a trade but that only lasted one season. I have found someone that sells seedlings of that in a local plant sale n the spring, and added it back in again, but it still doesn't come back."

I'm really surprised that your "Zebrina" didn't come back. Provided the stalks are not removed, it self-seeds quite readily; so it should come up if Fall sown. I've allowed it to naturalize in my vegetable gardens, to attract pollinators, and as a trap crop for Japanese beetles (for which it is very effective). It is a "welcome weed", if that makes sense... I allow the volunteers to grow wherever they are out of the way.

One of the perennial problems (pun intended) with garden forums seems to be that their designers start them, promote them, develop a loyal following - then sell or abandon them. Neither option tends to bode well for their membership, or the relationships formed there. Many very knowledgeable gardeners, some of whom had large collections to trade, left this site because of its diminished capability. The saddest part of that was the loss of friends & acquaintances, many of whom were known only by their screen names.

Apparently Houzz took over Gardenweb for its established membership, to promote its adds... but I don't believe they are the villain here. It appears that Houzz rescued GW from insolvency, and it would have suddenly "gone dark" without their intervention. I just wish they had preserved the functionality of the old site; it was such a vibrant community, and I have yet to find another site that could match its level of activity - especially for trading.

zeedman, you are right on everything! I did not know that Malva Zebrina was trap crop for Japanese beetles! I think I'll plant some again. It's gorgeous, too! I used to love taking pics of the pollen and the bees! Even if I don't trade very much these days, once in awhile I liked looking just to see if I could either find something I didn't have, or if I ran out of something. I guess I enjoys the 'social' part of it too!

Gawdinfever - Etsy is an interesting place. I’ve seen they offer some gardening products, seeds, but I’ve not tried them. Good luck with your tree seeds.

I put a lot of chopped leaves on my beds in the fall, but I do pull some of them off in the spring where I want to see reseeding, then I add it back in when things are up and growing to keep the weeds down and the soil moist. Where do you get compost, do you make your own?

Zeedman - Actually, this fall, I noticed that I had reseeding and tiny plants around where the Zebrina grew the year before, which I find very curious. Why didn’t I get tiny seedlings this spring or last fall? And I thought, how are those tiny seedlings going to survive the winter, so I dug up a few seedlings and brought them in the house to try to keep them over the winter. They are barely hanging on because I just have them in front of a west window with not enough light and I can’t see running fluorescents all winter just to keep those going.

I love re-seeders and would do the same as you are doing if I could figure out how to get them to do that. [g] I’d love to grow it in the vegetable garden too.

One reseeder I’m not crazy about is Bronze Fennel. I love to grow it. I had it years ago and had to get rid of it because it reseeds so aggressively, but I broke down and bought a couple of seedlings two springs ago and thought well I’ll just deadhead it. Right. I missed my chance that first fall and I’ve already been pulling a lot out. I did deadhead the plant that bloomed this year, so we’ll see this spring, if that is going to be an issue.

Zenman - So you are the gardener who breeds your own Zinna. I’ve seen your posts for years, you’ve been doing it a long time. :-)

Thanks for the link to the National Gardening Association. I am trying to prepare myself for when Houzz is not able to keep GW going and trying to find another place to go.

I am curious why so many people avoid participating on Facebook?

Gardenweb was the first gardening forum I joined in 2008, hence my forum name roper2008. Lots of trading back then, lots of fun. To bad those days are over. I did use to frequent the wintersowing portion quite often, and a few times received some of Trudi’s seeds. I will be wintersowing a little bit this winter. Haven’t done it in awhile. Need to get the red cardinal seeds out there.

I've composted for over 11 years. I found out about that on gw as well! I wouldn't say I'm 100% organic, but try to be as much as I can. Because of it, I have a lot of weeds in my grass, but my garden plants are extremely healthy. Most of my garden beds are lovely and loamy. My neighbor blames our moles on my composting. He's probably right. A lot of worms draws the moles.

I usually have a couple of good size piles going. I've gotten lazier about it over the years and other than fall and spring, don't really turn that much. Just before it got really cold of late, I put down about 20 heaping wheelbarrows of compost in the beds. I actually ran out of compost for the first time! But then I keep digging out the grass and making more beds!

Roper: I've been wanting cardinal seeds as well!

Hello PrairieMoon,

Yes, I am the one, or maybe I should just say "a one", who grows and breeds zinnias as a hobby.

I have gotten some interesting looking zinnias (to me) that you can't get from seed companies. These are a couple of examples.

Click on those photo "thumbnails" to see larger versions. I could arrange those thumbnails side-by-side at GardenOrg, but I can't seem to do that here. I wonder what those would look like if I crossed them with each other. They say you shouldn't save seeds from F1 hybrids, but I deliberately violate that big time, and merrily cross hybrids with other hybrids.

" I am curious why so many people avoid participating on Facebook? "

I suppose different people have a lot of different reasons. As usual, there is plenty of information "out there" on the Internet. Click on this link to find

Links to why people don't use Facebook

I think you could find a lot of different answers to your question about Facebook. If you wanted, you could probably write a dissertation on the subject. But me, I prefer to breed zinnias.

ZM

ZenMan - Very pretty and different looking. The orange one reminds me of Asclepias.

As for Using Facebook as the only way to keep in touch with family, we are happy with texting, FaceTime and Zoom and wonder of all wonder, the telephone…lol.

And breeding zinnia seeds sounds a whole lot more relaxing, for sure. [g]

I cringe when I look at Facebook gardening sections (not that I'm an avid FB user. Usually I need to be bored to look at FB and I'm usually not bored). But it seems FB has sucked in a lot of people. Mostly it seems to be people showing off pictures or recycling bad information.

I have mostly moved on to permies.com though like many others here I miss the activity that used to be here. There is still a lot of good advice here though most of the posts are older.

Prairiemoon: I first started on Dave's Garden a long time ago, around 2007 I think. It was my first foray into online seed swapping and it was a game changer for me. One of my most treasured swaps was with a 90 year old man from Canada in a one-on-one swap. I learned how to make my own paper seed packets from him and grew many flowers I didn't know even existed back then.

I don't think the younger generation does less gardening, they have just moved to platforms that are more familiar and easier to navigate to them. I do both online forums like this one and social media. I get way more variety exchanging seeds on my Instagram account @frugalgardenseedswap. I had 250 people participate in my Fall 2020 swap and you don't have to be on social media if you don't want to. I only go on FB, myself, to connect through my seed swap page and rarely if ever, look at my personal account. I only had a handful of older gardeners in my groups seed swaps because I don't think they are on social media much. Most swappers were in the 20-50 age bracket. There is a whole niche of homestead and backyard gardeners out there. I do see a trend of moving to vegetable gardening primarily and using the flower gardening for attracting pollinators, instead of the old way of having massive flower gardens and smaller or non-existent food gardening. That has changed relatively recently, in the last 10-15 years. Just my observations. People are very interested in self-sufficiency but still love their flowers as a side entertainment to the primary food garden.

Maybe treat social media like an online forum. On Instagram, You can post comments and look at the threads anytime you want if you go to an account you really like. You can even bookmark photos with threads you like and create "Collections" to be able to reference the info in the future. It can be used the same way as an online forum almost, just in a different platform. If you want to try Instagram out and need help figuring it out, I am more than happy to "show you around". It would be my pleasure!

If you are ever interested in participating in my mass group online seed swaps, you can do so with or without social media. www.frugalgardenseedswap.com

You can just sign up for email notification of seed swaps and that's it, if you wish. I try to post notification on social media of all other accounts hosting seed swaps, as well.

Hope you have a great gardening season!!

JHDee - I belonged to Dave’s Garden for a short time. It was pretty active at that point. I guess I just got used to GW and went back. Seed trading is a lot of fun. I had a good time for a couple of years. I did find it took a little more time than I had to spend and then I ended up with too many seed. So, I stopped doing that even before GW became less active. And as my garden has matured, I really do sow less seeds.

I remember making those paper seed packets. I don’t remember who showed it to me, but it wasn’t a 90 yr old man. That is interesting. We made them out of seed catalog pages, once. I forget how to do it now.

You trade on Instagram, how funny. I always thought it was for posting photos. There is, I think, a generation gap with the way we all communicate. For the longest time my daughter kept asking me when I was going to get a smart phone, so I could text. I still don’t have one, [g] but I can text on my computer now, and I find we talk more than when I kept trying to use the phone. No more full mail box. LoL I think you are right, I don’t think older gardeners are on social media much. I wonder if part of the reason is because they are less likely to want to share a lot of personal information online?

At least since the pandemic, I’ve noticed people more interested in vegetable gardening. That would be a good change, bigger veggie garden, smaller ornamental garden. I love to see young people learn to grow their own food.

I guess I see the difference at GW is that it is a community to some degree. Not sure how much that applies to social media.

Thank you for posting with a link for your site. It’s great to have a source for seed swaps! Right now I don’t know when I’ll be able to do that, but, I think I will at some point. Thanks and Happy gardening season in 2021, too!

I've got some Rose of Sharon & King Humbert Canna seeds, if anyone is interested. While I still do veggie gardening, flowers are my love.

BTW, it's easier to email me at judithsmedley45701@gmail.com since I'm rarely here now for lack of online company.

Hi Judith,

You may not see this for a while, since you say that you are rarely here now for lack of online company, but I personally consider my email address to be a private thing that I would not post in the view of anyone who happened by on the Internet. Houzz lets you edit your posts here and I suggest you take advantage of that and edit your email address out of your post above. There are whole books written on the subjects of The Art of Invisibility and Hiding from the Internet and why you would want to do that. (Those are clickable links.)

ZM (not associated with any product or vendor mentioned or linked)

I'd agree with that. Actually, Houzz only allows you to delete your messages and edit them for a short window and if you miss it. it's permanently a part of the thread.

I haven’t been onin this site in years. I’m so confused about how it works now. i was looking for the heirloom tomato exchange but found nothing. this is my first year to put in a garden in many years. I lost my seeds due to flooding and was hoping to find and trade with people iI had years ago. Wow things have changed!

Hi Brenda,

Things have changed a lot here. Some would say "gone downhill" from the old Garden Web. There is no heirloom tomato exchange, but there is a Growing Tomatoes forum (that is a clickable link).

ZM

zen-man, this is rather random, but are you still located in Kansas? If yes, are you in the KC metro area? I live in Minneapolis (4b) and have been gardening here for 20+ years but I'm moving to KC in a month or so and interested in any tips on gathering info on gardening there, esp. community gardening opportunities. Thank you!

Hi Lisa,

I am still in Kansas, but I am not in the KC metro area, or in any metro area for that matter. I am in eastern central rural Kansas, renting a farmhouse on a farm, and I have no knowledge of any local community gardening opportunities. I do have adequate gardening space available here on the grounds around the farmhouse. I think community gardens are almost always in cities or towns. From what I hear, community gardens have both advantages and disadvantages. But I have never gardened in one.

ZM

@Brenda Lee Jones , so sorry to hear about the flooding! That is heartbreaking about your seeds. I wanted to message you to see about trading or getting you some seeds, but it looks like you need to turn on your messaging. Here's how:

• Click your icon or go to 'Your Houzz' at upper right.
• Click the pencil at the top right (for 'Edit Profile').
• Click 'Advanced Settings' on the left bar
• Go down near the bottom where it says "Who can message me" and choose "Anyone can message me."
• Click 'Update' at the bottom.
• Now you can get messages!

To get emails when you get messages, on the same 'Advanced Settings Page, under 'User Activity Notifications' (about in the middle),

• Go to 'someone messages me'
• Choose 'every time'
• Click 'Update' at the bottom.
• Now when you receive a message, Houzz will will send you an email saying you have received a message.

They've definitely made this too complicated!!!!!

Best,

Shannon