It looks good. I would not do the cutout for the sunroom...

There’s no point in doing that involved rip out and redo and not doing the venting right. It’s not that hard to do, or expensive. If you were going to leave well enough alone, that’s off the table now. You need to make the result worth the expense and hassle. That terrible island cooking plan doesn’t do that.

Is there any natural light or windows in the kitchen? If not I’d definitely open it up to the sunroom as much as possible.

What's between the french doors? Do you want an eat in K?

Celadon, the joists run perpendicular to the back wall & there’s a patio where it would exhaust~against code. There are 2 stories above the kitchen, really about 3. Do you have any suggestions how I would run ducting?

There are 2 French doors on the back wall.

Here is the sunroom, that has the best light....& nice view to the lake.

Mtn, I plan on having a kitchen table in sunroom w built in bench.

I‘m just here to vote against the pass-thru.

Could you / would you combine the k and sunroom? Or add windows between the French doors?

It's a good sized room, but given the size, the layout doesn't seem optimal, and I think it's because it suffers from too much traffic flow with 5 doorways. Also, the 54" between the counter and island would be too generous for me.

I'd save some space there by making that walkway narrower and add an eat-in area in the kitchen...maybe get rid of the french door in the corner and turn it into an L-shaped banquette with table. What is that big box on your drawing by the french door? And what is that half-round thing on the left side of the island with a hook?

I'd save that lovely sun room with the view of the lake for more comfortable seating than a table. But that's without knowing how you really want the rooms to function. For me, function comes first.

I'd also look at your kitchen and ask yourself what it is you really want that you might not have, and then make sure you get it.

I too am anti-pass throughs...rather than a cut out, would you consider opening the wall and putting in a penninsula there? It would add more light to the kitchen for sure....

Kitchens are so expensive to redo, that I'd want to make sure I did all I could to get it perfect as I'd probably end up living with it like that for the next 20 yrs even if it made the job more extensive.

There’s not enough space around the sink, for me. I’d move that cabinet to the counter to the short wall adjacent to fridge (or move fridge there, if space allows.
But what is the second sink for? Because it’s not in a good location for anything that I can see. If meant to be a prep sink, it should form a triangle between fridge and cooktop.

"...there’s a patio where it would exhaust~against code..."

Who told you it's against Code? I've never heard that.

The others are right about the issues.

It's your home and Kitchen - so it's your choice how to handle it. We're here to give you advice - with no financial benefit accruing from specific designs/appliances/etc. - and it's your choice whether to take it or not. But, if you're going to spend all that $$$$, why repeat the layout issues? I understand that you're used to what you have and you can't imagine anything better - but keep in mind that:

Human beings are very adaptable...We can adapt to anything - good or bad - even the worst layouts! We adapt so well that we tell ourselves it's fine the way it is - we cannot imagine doing it differently or making it better. But, what if it could be better? If you ask just about anyone here who took our advice and changed their layout to make it better, they will tell you they never realized it could be so much better and wondered how they had lived with the issues for so long! (The answer is back to the adaptability of human beings!)

Human beings are resistant to change...Even when something can be made better, we resist change. We like what we know and we have a hard time seeing other ways to do things - even if they could be so much better! And, as I mentioned before, we've adapted to what we have - both the good and the bad. [This is not specific to you - we are all resistant to change to some extent!]

Once we get past that resistance and start opening up to new ideas, though, it can be amazing what we can come up with - and I don't mean just the people here helping you, I mean you and your family coming up with new ideas as well!

So, why not at least try for something better?

If you're OK with what you have and do not want to change, that's your option.

Good luck with your remodel!

FWIW peeps, Peppa just bought this (fixer upper) lovely home and has never used the kitchen i don't think...and appears entirely open to suggestions,

I am very open to changing things here!, Mtn is correct, we just bought this fixer upper. When I walked in the kitchen, there was so much disappointment!

These pics show the before.....

I am all for change & function. The back of the house is very symmetrical so, I don’t really want to add windows to the back wall(French doors) & there is no water along that wall. The kitchen is bottom left vvvvvvvv.

I prefer To not move waterlines/gas lines. That being said......the gas in the island has to come from somewhere - I’m hoping it’s on the sink wall (there are 2 bathrooms above that wall (cut out in kitchen ceiling). If I can run a duct to the patio, then I could get a vent hood above a gas range top/range. I’m fairly sure I could get 220v on that wall for induction. But, my DH really wants the blue star open flame (possible compromise?)

so I’d like to see if the gas comes from that wall. The HVAC guys will be there next week.

If I can get range/hood on that back wall(original sink wall), does that improve things?? Sink/DW in island?

And I have thought about hiring a kitchen designer, have looked at portfolios here locally & I haven’t seen anything I’d like to have. So, I’m here bc I have loved watching GW design the most wonderful kitchens!

Totally agree, now is the time to bite the bullet & the house deserves a great kitchen!

Ah I see...that's a sink in the island....and yes, you don't want to do anything to those french doors for the sake of the front facade.

Having any appliance in the island is less than optimal for me, but if you have to, and you have a huge island at almost 10', I'd think about turning one end into seating so if you have guests, they aren't sitting near whatever might be splattering or fuming on the stove. You can attach a "kitchen table" that is either higher as here, or lower than counter height to make it feel separate...or keep it the same height, but just on the end.

I also like the idea...as illustrated below...of doing a built in storage between the french doors with the glass fronts.

Another idea is, if you want an L shaped kitchen but have too many doorways, then put in a penninsula as here. Just make sure it doesn't block your flow to a frequently trafficked area.

(I kinda like that style of built in buffet too!)

Here's an example where the seating is around one end of the island with the island one level...

Or you can consider attaching a banquette to the island so the seating is away from whatever appliance is in the island.

I know a lot of people like the more open look and feel to the family room. Have you thought about making the opening to your family room slightly smaller to expand the space for the refrigerator? It looks too small to my eyes.

I also like the idea of a built-in between the French doors. If there was any way to move the cooktop to the wall and vent it out there I would do it and put the sink in the island. I wouldn’t put anything in that corner where the cabinetry desk and upper cabinets were unless it’s a piece of your own furniture or something else unique. Annie had some pretty examples of what you could do with your large island and some bar seating.

People, please stop saying “that’s not to code“ unless you know the exact location of the structure being discussed. The uniform building code is not uniform. Local jurisdictions delete/add/amend sections as they see fit or draft and adopt something totally of their own making. For example, where I live, a kitchen island that is permanently installed must have an electrical outlet on it. There is no such requirement where my sister lives. There are even rural areas in my state with no building code at all because the county has not adopted one.

No doubt, you can talk about code where you live, but code where someone else resides may or may not be the same.

Ok, I’ll take up my soap box and move on now. Thank you for your time and, perhaps, even your attention.

@Peppapoodle, about your comment on kitchen designers. When I gutted the kitchen in our old house, I interviewed at least 2 KDs. Neither seemed to get what I wanted. I came here and through the comments of a number of erudite and generous people, I ended up with a terrific kitchen layout. I think you will too.

I agree with bbstx, plus you will save money! Forgive me if you mentioned this, as i have not read through every word of this thread (LOL), but do you want seating in your kitchen? No reason you should, I'm just asking. How do you envision using your sunroom? For us, we use ours as a den/sitting room every. single. day. But I have a drop leave table out there that is more of a console/sofa table with the leaves down. But if I want to set up a dining table out there, all I have to do is pull the table out, and bring in some chairs. Great extra seating. I have a friend who has a long table in her sunroom and I love it. However her sunroom is large enough for the table/chairs and a sitting area on one end. It all depends on how you want to use the room. Kitchens are always hard to design!!

Ok clearly no touching the facade!

My first reaction to your layout is that you don't have a window to look out at from the sink (to me, that's a must). Now that I see the opposite wall, it seems that standing at the island range, unless i missing something, you won't have a view either (perhaps a peripheral one? via the french doors?). Before getting into the nitty gritty, does it make sense to combine this with the sunroom so you have some view when in your kitchen?

More generally, my 2 cents on kitchen design.

1. Drawers. For everything. For storage, for the d/w, and pull out trash cans and for fridges and freezers. Everything is better in a drawer.

2. If you entertain or even just cook a lot, I'd get two FP d/w drawers, the larger ones not the stacked ones. For thxgiving, I put my dishes in one and pots and pans in the other.

3. In my old house and also my "new" (10 years now) house, I had a separate refrigerator drawer that i called "the event drawer." This is a luxury I love. When I am having guests, all the food goes in there, so I am not juggling and reconfiguring my fridge to hold platters, etc. when guests arrive. When we are not entertaining it usually has extra drinks in it or fruit.

4.. The standard US kitchen has wall hung upper cabinets. This is largely, I think, to conserve space. I do not care for them at all, and was so inspired when I first started to see homes without them. Aesthetically I think they make things dark and top heavy and they don't fit well in historic homes. Functionally, they curtail usable counter pace and block light, and make it harder to get at the stuff up in the cabs.

The only uppers I have in my CT kitchen, sit on the counter. That leaves maybe 10" of landing space, which is more than enough for taking things out, etc. Where I have counter space, it is entirely open with nothing above. My upper cabs also have sliding glass doors, which makes it sooooo easy.

Just a thought and I know many will disagree, but you seem to have enough space to cut back on uppers, esp. if you won't have a table.

5. For aesthetics I chose a range with 3 ovens and therefore did not put in a wall oven. I regret no wall oven. Also, I agree w your DH about Bluestar; just used one in a rental cabin last month.

6. Have a 100% impervious surface for a landing area from oven or stove. We have an old metal topped table/island. YMMV

7. If it fits your aesthetic, and it may be too casual, I love old fashioned double drainboard sinks. Three reasons. One, it's a pretty impervious surface that is easy to clean. It is good for dirty dishes of course, but sanitary enough to say, slice watermelon on. Two, it has a wide lip so water, juices, etc do not run off the counter; they run into the sink. Three, the sink is shallow which i find nicer to work in. These sinks can have legs, skirts, be wall hung, even sunk into a cabinet. I love, love mine at the beach.

8. Other thing I like at the beach is my plate rack. Its near my D/W and so easy to unload from there. I don't see dust as a huge issue, YMMV.

9. Trash! We have a 30-gallon plastic trash can in a pull out that has fake drawer front to match the rest of the kitchen. My layout is fridge, pull out trash, sink, d/w. Personally i find this ideal. IDK about you but I spend a disconcerting amount of time throwing out things from the fridge, so I love having the trash right there next to it. Similarly,,after dinner, I stand at the sink, scrape plates in the trash to my left, and then put them in the pull out d/w to my right.

10 Pantry. Not sure if you have one, if you don't... i'd add one. So much easier to find things and put things away. My pantry also has freezer drawers.

11. Seating. If you have the space, I think the space between the french doors could be lovely for two upholstered chairs and a small table. I'm tempted to add a fpl there too but--- facade!

12. I don't like built in microwaves. Mine is a cheapy, in a wall cabinet with pocket doors. I have a pull out shelf for a landing area there.

Popping in quickly.....:

I didn’t add this, but i Was planning on totally copying this for the wall between the French doors.....

Lots of things to ponder! IIve got DH searching for gas line right now!!

Interesting abt putting peninsula on oven wall!

We entertain often & cook w friends every single week. Bar seating is important to us. Last kitchen I had a small table & 2 swivel chairs (in front of FP 😢) that I loved using.

MTN......yes, yes, yes- agree w everything! I have sub drawers chosen. Will have big freezer in pantry (great pantry space here & butlers pantry). All drawers, as few uppers as possible- except to the cabinet.

The windows are low in the sunroom- but I could open up this opening? Or peninsula like Annie suggested.

I like the idea of opening up the kitchen to the sunroom, with one major caveat. Temperature. Sometimes sunrooms can be unbearably hot in the summer and unbearably cold in the winter and thus a room that one might want to be able to shut off from the kitchen. If, however, it's not an issue given the exposure, the insulation, the heating/cooling situation, then definitely consider opening that up more for better light and flow.

But the more I think about the kitchen, it really depends on how you use it...is it a gathering place for lots of family and entertaining? Is it a cozy spot for breakfast? Does it need to be eat-in? Does it have sufficient storage? Is it a workhorse of a kitchen meant to support the serious cook? One or two cooks at a time? And so on.

Then I think once all that is nailed down, island design is going to be critical for how it serves those functions and making the whole room work.

I’m forming up info on venting code, that came from DH- not sure where he got info abt the cover d porch

This layout would be my goal, although I understand it would depend on the venting issue. I have no experience with downdrafts, and I'm not sure I understand the distance limitations, but if the range can be vented from the island, and the floor joists are perpendicular to the long walls can the vent from the perimeter follow the existing (just longer) vent path? If downdraft is the only option and extra space is needed behind the range, all the cabinets in the perimeter run could be made deeper, or pulled out from the wall to accommodate the vent. At 54" there is extra space in the work aisle.

I like a separate clean-up zone, but with the DR entry on one side of the kitchen, and the FR entry on the other, a choice needed to be made on which side of the sink to place the DW, and then dish storage needed to be convenient. I chose the side nearer the DR, but the island line-up could be flipped.

My DH & 2 of his friends love to cook & we wives love that they love to cook! We always end up in the kitchen, so it’s definitely a hang out spot. Would like seating at island.

HVAC guy was there & saud we can run a vent like this- doesn’t vent to covered patio. Compromise is......will have to build boxes at ceiling to conceal.

Plumber was also there today & they found gas line. on the oven wall, but he said he can get gas to the back wall (where sink was originally). So, I think we may be cooking!!

Mama, I really like that layout! However, there is no water on that wall. And existing venting for double ovens. Would it be possible to switch ovens & fridge in your layout?

I feel like this is getting better & so glad I asked here :). I wasn’t really happy w having cooktop & downdraft on the island.

Peppa, what is on the other side of that wall? Isn‘t it the family room? Are there bookcases? Can you build bookcases? Can you build bookcases that extend across the door? You would then just need a false back on the upper shelves to hide the duct. It doesn’t have to run on the kitchen side of the wall.

ETA: You know the duct need not be round. It can be rectangular, making it easier to hide behind a false back. Your HVAC guy can figure the cubic feet to get a rectangular to match up with the more common round duct.

Fl

I don't care for the fridge in the corner. If you want it on the long wall, I'd suggest putting it beside the DR door, centering the cooktop, adding a tall pantry or dish hutch where I drew the wall ovens, and flipping the island line-up. I'd then go back to the baking center idea--it's better to have some landing space beside the ovens.

Glad to hear you can move things around a bit more. I like your island layout.

Not sure I understand the lanterns flanking the stove? They look low, plus are they ok with the heat, and won't they get quite dirty? I don't think ive seen that done, plus all the lights are usually in the hood. Pretty lanterns all the same!

I like your range wall layout. Is 36" a little narrow for a fridge, IDK. Also does the marble go all the way up, *and* on the range hood?

As for as a M/w hutch, not sure what you mean but we did this:

Peppa, even though I got excellent advice here when I was re-doing my kitchen, I used cardboard boxes and tape to lay out the design. Then I play-acted cooking a meal to make sure everything would work as I thought it was going to. Sounds a bit much, I know, but it helped me hone the placement of some things (wish I could remember specifically what).

JuneKnow, I happen to live in a county where no permits are required unless one is building a 4 unit (or more) residential building or a commercial building. There are no inspections since there are no permits, so the integrity and knowledge of the contractor is paramount to a safe and successful build.

Bb, I think that’s a brilliant idea(well, both- the ducting behind the wall & the cardboard boxes). The pantry & butlers pantry are behind that wall.

I can put mdf on top of cabs & add crown (they are being painted). I have 12”

Then the BP, I can just have a bulkhead. This entire room will be blue/grey- cabs, trim, walls

Thank you!

Mtn, I love that cabinet for coffee maker & microwave & may totally copy!

I really don’t know for rangehood. Think it’d be cool to have slab of marble bridging the 2 sides- dish hutch & refrigerator. And the lanterns, I just like!,

Something like this, but marble instead of the wood. I like that marble shelf also.

Mama G, I think that sounds like a plan! Thank you:)

Playing around w range hood ideas & those dang lanterns! I want something simple & classic, non-trendy.

I’m still playing around w the oven wall. If it’s worth it to open up to sunroom w a peninsula. I could put the sub zero drawers there & mixer lift.

This I was messing around w having cabinets & uppers flanking the opening w glass doors for the “illusion” of light.

I like the glass cabinets beside the sun room door. You have such a wonderful home--I hope you'll post progress updates and post a final reveal.

Mama G, it may be 2 years before a reveal!! Haha I’m glad you like the cabinets flanking sunroom opening. I’m almost scared to start tearing out that wall/opening.

What started out as reconfiguring & painting cabinets has ended up as an almost gut job!

The farthest side, I’m wanting to do something like this......dog feeding/junk drawer station.