" It's all about them."

Really?? What a self serving viewpoint!! 95% of the mask wearing population is doing it for the safety and concern of others, whether they find it comfortable or convenient - that is the entire point!! So where is this concern only for themselves?

I'd also venture to say that those that may suffer some sort of disability while wearing a mask is probably a very low number. And not to diminish the reality of what that disability may be but there is a pretty easy way to remedy it.......just avoid putting yourself in a position where you have to be masked as much as possible. That's what the rest of the population is doing if they find masking overly irritating to nearly unbearable.

Of all the legitimate things we may have to gritch about, this falls pretty low on the agenda!

But for masks there are no loopholes where they are mandated. Even though the state came out with a list of people with disabilities who should be exempt, businesses are going with a no mask, no entry policy as is their right however misguided.

gardengal, trollish non-factual comments stop if not replied to. You know who those folks are who get off doing that, I do too. Better to ignore them.

One thing I've noticed about the anti-mask crowd is that they tend to be very patriotic, anything-for-my-country types, yet when their country asked them to mask up and maintain social distance to save lives, they crumbled like delicate flowers.

I think previous generations would be outraged at the selfish attitudes for minor inconveniences. It's sad how quickly American culture has degraded to the "me first" type.

"But for masks there are no loopholes where they are mandated. Even though the state came out with a list of people with disabilities who should be exempt, businesses are going with a no mask, no entry policy as is their right however misguided"

Because the 'never maskers' exploited the health exceptions to make a political statement, it ruined it for those few people who truly do have a medical reason to not wear a mask.

But the ADA does not require every person with every disability to be served in every circumstance. All it requires is for a business to make a "reasonable accommodation." So, if there is a danger of unmasked people spreading the virus, a reasonable accommodation is NOT allowing them into businesses unmasked. A reasonable accommodation would be something like curbside service or home delivery. And lots of businesses are doing just that for their customers who cannot come in person because of the risk, or who cannot mask up.

I bet we will see a lot more people wearing masks during flu season. There are two big differences between covid and the flu though. The big one is that we have a flu vaccine, and the flu is less contagious than covid and less deadly. And the flu incubation period is much shorter, so the amount of time people can walk around before displaying symptoms is reduced.

But I think anyone with a cough, runny nose, or any other illness should wear a mask in public and stay away from other people. It's just the right thing to do.

I warned you.

The relevant portion starts at about the 1:30 point of the sketch

"I think previous generations would be shocked at how willingly some line up like sheep for the slaughter."

Yes, those folks who followed the Blackout Regulations of World War II would certainly be shocked. But not at how willingly some abide by the mask mandates, but by how ignorant, self-centered, and pigheaded some people are now.

Quote from up above: "There's nothing patriotic about quietly allowing yourself and your
compatriots to be muzzled up like animals and have your basic human
rights taken away by overreaching government. That's how totalitarian
regimes take over, that's how freedoms go away, under the cover of
"saving lives" and "for the children""

What about wearing seat belts? Do you disagree with that? It is not quite the same, since it is about protecting yourself instead of other people, but it is a similar government issued health directive. What about child proof locks on medication containers?

I think it is clear that you are very bothered by masks, and for that I am sorry. It is certainly a hard time for people and I think we all are wishing for it to go away as soon as possible so we can get back to normal life.

61,000 flu deaths in the worst 8-month flu season in a decade. 235,000 deaths from covid19 in 8 months, and daily case numbers are at their highest level since it began. No comparison in my book.

People can get a flu shot every year if they choose. How many of those 61,000 people didn't get one? How many deaths would there be if there wasn't a yearly flu shot available?

There's nothing for Covid yet.

Looks like we have a couple of trolls.

I'm excited to see more Bauti's join in. Let's try and guess what the next Bauti Troll might be! MAGA Bauti?

I do not think they are new people, I think they are sock puppets of existing members, made so when they are banned the original member is still here..

Wearing a seatbelt can actually save another person, child or baby in the car with you. You can do a lot of damage with your flying body in an accident.

A lot of Asian countries have people that wear masks when they are sick. Long before Covid 19. Wouldn't be a bad thing to do.

I went to Walmart yesterday.. Nov 1, Sunday...and they were out of TP...again. I thought maybe I should pick up a package or two and they are gone...is it starting all over again?

.is it starting all over again?

How often do you shop on Sundays? Worst day of the week to shop for grub, household essentials, etc. TP is bulky so it doesn't take many shoppers to clear the shelves. WMT pioneered 'Just in Time' inventory management years ago so there isn't a warehouse worth of overstock in the back room. In the backroom where space hog bulky overstock is going to be depleted quickly, too.

Walmart is always out of stuff on Sunday. Aldi, too. Saturday is second worst because the stores are so busy and by Saturday afternoon the shelves look like they will on Sunday. At least that is my experience. Might have something to do, also, with the local WMT being the second busiest in my state, per the pharmacy tech who gave me my flu shot this week.

Oh brother, here we go again. If you have no problem complying with the govt when it comes to wearing pants, you should have no problem with complying with the govt on wearing a mask. In fact the latter is probably more important from a health point of view than the former.

My mental health relies on everybody else wearing pants. Please be kind.

(I will make an exception for Brad Pitt)

I can’t bring myself to “like” that comment but I sure agree with you Annie

If anyone is interested there's a new study from Stanford that suggests that rallies (I won't say whose) have led to 30,000 confirmed cases and over 700 deaths. They studied a 3-month time period.

https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3722299 

What really has me SMH is that it's not like we don't know how to stop the spread of infectious disease. It's not like there's a huge mystery that needs to be unwrapped. We *know* what to do. But people won't do it. The solutions are low cost, no side effects, easy to implement and have nothing to do with p*litics. It has everything to do with staying healthy and saving lives. One would think that at the very least that'd be a value we could share. But in these times, in this era, I guess not.

The virus doesn't care why people are gathering in large numbers with no distancing and maskless...only that it presents a great opportunity for it to spread...whether it's at a rally, a protest, a wedding or gramma's for turkey dinner.

People need to be encouraged to follow safety protocols. We need good leadership to do that. Like a good coach encourages players on their team when they're down.

People are tired and anxious and discouraged and lack good leadership right now.

Interesting article from the BBC that touches on some of the things discussed here.

They say keeping the lockdown policies in place until a vaccine is available would cause "irreparable damage, with the underprivileged disproportionately harmed".

The health harms cited include:

• lower childhood vaccination rates
• worsening care for heart disease and cancer patients

And they point out the risk from coronavirus is 1,000 times greater for the old and infirm, with children more at risk from flu than Covid-19.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-54442386

PLEASE STOP RESPONDING TO THE FAMILY OF TROLLS. WHEN YOU FEED THEM THEY REPRODUCE

^^^ I thought you had to get them wet before they multiplied? Or maybe that was gremlins rather than trolls? lol

Denial, anger and blame are commonly seen as deflections from fear. COVID is the implacable enemy, not the adoption of measures that aid in containing it.

I saw a posting on CNN that makes sense, saying that the spike in cases after our Canadian Thanksgiving was an example to be avoided for the U.S. It seems that here people relaxed while celebrating and now we're paying the price. Code red in our city.

When is American Thanksgiving?

I have already declined a family invitation for Thanksgiving. My immediate local family bubble will not be in town over the holiday but this is a somewhat more distant group of family members that I don't feel as comfortable with being unmasked and close to. Plus I would need to take a ferry to get there and that involves all the other risks of being in a confined area although fully masked, waiting rooms, ticket booth, etc.

Too chancy for just a meal together :-) Fortunately the hostess (my nephew's wife) understands completely and is happy to let me celebrate at home safely. I will give plenty of thanks for being safe and remaining healthy!!

ETA: The US thanksgiving is celebrated on the 4th Thursday in November, so this year is 11/26/20.

Boston (health department) did study the number of Covid-19 cases arising from the huge marches related to the need for improvement in policing.

No uptick was found. They concluded that by NOT standing in a crowd but rather moving along was good.

PS: is there an attempt here to get KT shut off?

Hamilton, that Thanksgiving connection sounds reasonable, but cases started escalating elsewhere after September, so it’s hard to say if Thanksgiving was the cause.

I looked at Haiti on WorldMeter, and they are doing quite well? My morbid thought is that the person who submits their numbers is in the hospital . . .

We have a weird family bubble and are having a family Thanksgiving. Each sub-unit carefully (masking & SD & infrequently) interacts with others. No one we've been in direct contact so far has been infected. (Friends who do know someone who became infected are off-limits.)

My community now gets masking and SD so the trip to the small hardware store, when essential, is doable. (As I read accounts of those who wear masks and get Covid-19 & claim to not know how they got it because they were so careful ... their descriptions of how they socially distanced are much less cautious than mine.)

{Regret not being more articulate.}

PS: is there an attempt here to get KT shut off?

Looks like someone is trying hard. Sad.

A church gathering resulted in 33 cases last week, in a small town south of me. A wedding north of Toronto has 19 new cases, and they're in areas from all over, as they were guests.

Only time will tell and that time is probably twenty or more years from now which group is correct. This weekend I saw at least two if not more stories that mentioned the amount of infectious material introduced into the body is very important. Something I have wondered about for a while. It was a suggestion of why even people who always mask when going out still develop the virus. The amount of virus going through a mask is less than what would happen if no mask was worn. Effectively gives the body to gradually build up an immunity. The difficulty with this is that there is no way to know what a person's natural immunity would be when in the presence of the virus. Even being tired can suppress the body's immune response. It may also explain why the blood of some people who were not aware they had been infected show antibodies because they had taken the recommended precautions.

Bpath, I wonder if Haiti is doing well because like some African countries they do not have large elderly populations. The median age in some African countries is something like 25. So the death rate is quite low. Not a lot of elderly people to die of this disease or get very sick from it. Or they could not have the testing capability?

I just had to tell my daughter not to come here for a visit. She was wanting to come before Christmas and then at Christmas and asked if she got tested before if it was okay. She knows better than that, I had to remind her why it isn't a good idea.

FWIW, I can't imagine having any kind of celebration now anyway - just not feeling it! This year has been a horrorshow.

I can sympathize with those who are devastated by the lack of contact with loved ones and friends, but since I've always been a somewhat socially shy type, it's not a huge sacrifice for me, tho I do miss being in the same place with distant family members and friends.

And since I'm caring for my 90 yr old mom, who has dementia, I need not only to protect her, but myself as well. It's a constant struggle with her memory loss - sometimes she understands why we can't do things like we used to, and other times she forgets...

"A lot of Asian countries have people that wear masks when they are sick. Long before Covid 19. Wouldn't be a bad thing to do."

I have a close friend who has lived in Japan several times and travels there now (pre-covid) for work and pleasure. She always sends me pictures of things she knows I'd be interested in while she's there. Once, I asked her why so many people in the background in her photos were masked. Pollution? Germaphobia? She said it was both, esp in the big cities. I guess that has served them well in this pandemic, as mask usage increased without resistance and they have kept the virus from running wild like it has here in the US.

More likely Haiti is doing well because it is so poor in many parts of the country. If people do not have money to go to a doctor they will use a local healer. The healers probably are not able to test for the virus.

She said it was both, esp in the big cities.

I would think not so much 'germaphobia' as just practical good sense because of population density. As well as reliance on mass transit. Sardine city.

I understand that many people in Asia have already been acclimated to wearing masks for public health reasons because of the SARS epidemic...?

More likely Haiti is doing well because...

It's not exactly a tourism hotspot. Less than a million international tourists per year, the majority of which are 'same day tourists'--overnighters, cruise ship excursions.

That's a normal year. Obviously cruise ships haven't been making port there this year.

Also, the State Departments says:

Haiti - Level 4: Do Not Travel. Do not travel to Haiti due to crime, civil unrest, kidnapping, and COVID-19.

That's the catch-22 with the disease though....you can *think* you're doing everything right but you don't *know* if you're doing everything right until you get the disease, and then you know you did something wrong. Of course there's no way of knowing in what way you weren't vigilant enough...only that somewhere along the line you got the disease. And if you don't get the disease, you don't know if it's because of all the precautions you're taking or if it's because you were lucky enough not to run into another infected person. And most likely, you won't ever know.

"I would think not so much 'germaphobia' as just practical good sense because of population density. As well as reliance on mass transit. Sardine city"

You're right ci_lantro - germaphobia was my term for what you wrote.

Fogged up glasses = escaping breath. I use first aid tape to get the top of my mask closed all the way across. Of course this means it hurts when I eventually remove the mask after I get home because of the tape pulling at the delicate skin below my eyes.

Meanwhile when I go out on top of the usual wearing of masks below the nose inside crowded stores, teams of completely uncovered workers on construction sites, uncovered outdoor dining creating curbside gauntlets and the pulling of masks completely down in order to use phones - whenever and wherever the phone user happens to be at the time - I see a lot of people with masks that fit so that their noses look like they are sitting in a row boat. As in open on top and with large gaps on each side of the nose, with only the tip of the nose covered. And often just barely at that.

Apparently the point of view such behavior demonstrates is not in fact a latter day development, a condemnation of how things have become because I read in the spring about how there was the same problem in 1918. That is that Americans were actually told to distance and cover back then as well and because - same as now - there was a significant component that didn't cooperate a deadly pandemic developed.

With one specific large outdoor political rally in particular that was held right after the looming problem had become recognized being considered a major contributor to the initial establishment and spread of the virus.

Individuals taking seemingly careful precautions and becoming infected anyway shouldn't be a source of mystification when it is thought about the totality of what is involved with exposure. Because the death dust is out there being blown around to settle on every body and every thing that is within reach of each cloud of exhalation. So that a friend with medical training was taking a shower every day after coming home from work, early in the unfolding of the pandemic. And we have probably all seen the comical pictures of random people in China walking around in protective suits with jugs etc. covering their entire heads - a hysterical response, except was it really?

For my part I managed to be moving around inside a crowded Cost Co during peak afternoon hours yesterday and then fall asleep on the living room couch afterward without bathing. Except for washing my face when I got home.

While I was at the warehouse store standing in front of a display reading some product labeling an arm came around from behind me and grabbed a container of the goods and disappeared. I did not look to see how much face covering was employed as they walked away. For one thing I did not want to turn and present my face to the air where they had just been.

But when they came up to me at the display they were right there, like maybe a foot away.

In other news a research entity was granted a million dollars this past week to find out just how long the COVID virus remains viable on surfaces. And the body of a COVID victim that was for some reason kept around for a month was discovered to have still infectious particles in the lungs.

Keep in mind that there are more than a few reports now stating that many infections are resulting from more intimate gatherings - in homes.

Yes: Fauci announced recently that he thought small groups had become the main driver. Any situation where exposure to an infected person occurs can result in infection. And apparently very often does, with the current strain. With the fact that the infected person is a familiar, such as a family member or friend of course conferring no protection. So that what we may be headed for - so to speak - is anyone wanting to have a strong level of confidence in evading the virus needing to wear things on their melons like ear coverings and goggles, in addition to masks. And even people within households and work places having to cover up, keep their distance and sanitize.

I never understood the idea behind having a bubble since someone in that bubble must have contact with the outside world. It sounds safe but in reality the outside contact person can bring the virus to the group.

Maifleur, I think the concept is that you are only with people you KNOW are doing all the proper safety procedures, even while having to be out in the world - hopefully as seldom as possible.

Oh, I understand the concept but there was no way that it would work.