Thanks @sktn77a for your response.

The major priority is replacing a 25 year old system (in a home we moved into shortly before C19 hit), or at least gearing up to move quickly if/when it finally dies.

Sadly we're in a bit of a pickle: HOA forbids mini-splits.

Tearing out the walls to repair/diagnose ductwork is financially prohibitive at this point, and we've not identified anyone willing to do it (for that matter). Had several contractors come out. One mentioned a product called "Aeroseal," but it seems temporary, very expensive, and not guaranteed to solve all ductwork challenges. (For full context: I only recently discovered the dampers in our system, so have not yet fully tested those in summer. Furnace/AC are all first floor. Need a ladder to see dampers in a cramped, garage closet.)

The hot summers on 4th floor are a problem. House sits on slab and first floor is very cold in winter. Hoping that adding a first floor return, and fiddling with the dampers will fix first floor. (Adding a return on 1st floor will be easier, given where the system is located.)

Any thoughts on the systems?

Tearing out the walls to repair/diagnose ductwork is financially prohibitive at this point, and we've not identified anyone willing to do it (for that matter).

It sounds like you are looking for a 'silver bullet' or a 'pill' you can take to cure all ills. I know this isn't what you want to hear... you would rather try to fix all these inadequacies of your current system with an equipment brand?

How exactly do you think that is going to actually work?

My point of view: That isn't likely to work well. I can understand your 'pickle' but it sounds to me like you rushed to buy this home and now you're trying to get out of paying for it by putting a brand in there that will likely fail. Unfortunately you don't get around the improperly installed system by ignoring everything that is wrong with the current system.

All those problems will come with the new equipment (whatever brand it is) in various shades.

In terms of this statement:

NOTE: We've been told that we need a single speed condenser (more constant, higher CFM to cool the top floor) and not to get anything more advanced than a 2 speed furnace, because parts (after warranty expires) are outrageously expensive.

The brands you've selected here are known for expensive parts after the warranty expires regardless of the model chosen. You're paying for the brand name, one way or the other with these manufacturers.

That said: installation matters. Improper duct system, controls, installation, refrigeration issues (air conditioning) all play a role in how good or how bad the install will be.

Is there an attic above the 4th floor? If so do you how much insulation exists? You should have at least R-30 and preferably R-40 insulation in the attic. I don't see how adding a return on the first floor is going to increase the temperature. Where is the current return located?

Do you know how the dampers work? Have your tried them when the AC was running to see if it helps keep the 4th floor cooler? On a hot day what are the temperatures of the 1st and 4th floor?

Thank you @Austin Air Companie and @mike_home. I value your input and expertise.

@Austin Air Companie - I apologize if my questions/comments appear naive. I genuinely appreciate your guidance. Some follow up questions:

1. Several contractors told us that a 2,000 square foot townhome should have a return on the top floor and be zoned for two units. Is this bad advice? How would we be certain that it's the ducts that are at fault for the hot floor and not another issue?

2. Do you have any experience with AeroSeal products? Or better just to open up the walls?

3. Alternatively, how would we find a contractor / vendor skilled in repairing duct work? None of the vendors who came out and submitted a proposal/estimate recommended duct work repair. Each vendor was selected either through reference through a friend or by Angie's list/Yelp ratings.

4. If our system failed tomorrow (it is 25 years old), or in the dead of winter .... is there a system above you'd recommend? Or an alternative system that's a different brand?

We had somewhere between 5 and 10 vendors come out to look at our system. Some were more thorough than others in their review. Some did commercial and residential, others were strictly residential. Where we live (DC metro area), every single contractor pushed either Carrier or Trane equipment (or a subsidiary, e.g., Bryant, Payne). Is there a different manufacturer you recommend? (Yes - I do appreciate that it won't solve all our problems.)

6. Our home was inspected by a home inspector with great recommendation and other referrals. He mentioned nothing about ductwork problems; only that the system was old and needed to be replaced ASAP. Would you say he was professionally negligent for mis-diagnosing HVAC?

@mike_home - To your questions:

7. The topfloor loft does not have an attic. Would need to cut into the ceiling to inspect. We're having some lighting/fan installed soon. Might be an opportunity to look.

8. There is currently a return on floor 2 and floor 3. None on floor 1 and floor 4. Registers are evenly distributed throughout the house. 15 total by my last count.

9. Are you asking if I understand the principle of how a dual dampers work? Or are you asking if I know for a fact that the dampers function correctly and are well installed? The answer to the first question is "yes"; to the second question, "no."

10. We've only lived in the home since mid-February. Only learned of the dampers recently (they're hard to see in the cramped closet). I do not know for sure what the temp differential is using dampers on a hot day. That said, on a hot day, we closed all the registers except on floor 4. Wife said the temp difference between floor 1 and floor 4 was almost 10 degrees (assuming our thermometer is good).

"(For full context: I only recently discovered the dampers in our system, so have not yet fully tested those in summer. Furnace/AC are all first floor. Need a ladder to see dampers in a cramped, garage closet.)"

Most multi-story homes with a single HVAC system need dampers altered in the fall and spring. Go ahead and try setting them to send as much air as possible to the upper floors to see if that helps. I'd hold off on buying a new system until you fully understand the limitations of your duct system.

Thanks, @sktn77a - This is very wise advice. Actually leaning towards doing this. My only fear is that the system breaks before we have a chance to do complete a full calendar year, and then I need to get a replacement system. (This was the motivation for the original question about which system to go with -- so I could be prepared for the 'worst case' scenario.) Appreciate your advice.

It sounds like your top floor is under a flat roof with little insulation. If you can't add a mini split to the top floor, then have you considered a window AC unit. It is not a great solution but it will keep you comfortable.

I was asking if you have experimented with the dampers to see if you can force more air to go to the top floor. A temperature difference of 10 degrees is not acceptable.

As for your quotes, you have to go with the brands that are available in your area. The installation and sizing is more important than the brand. I would invest in 2-stage variable speed equipment. The Carrier Comfort line is the low end. If you choose Carrier spend the money on the Performance series. Carrier and Bryant, and Trane and American Standard are the same equipment.

Home inspectors can't be held responsible for duct work they cannot see. They are typically not HVAC experts. The HVAC people don't want to open up walls in order to figure out how to increase duct work. Is it possible to run a new duct and hide in it in the back of a closet or the corner of the room? If that is possible then you could create a second zone for the top floor.

I have no experience with Aero Seal but from what I read it is not going to solve your problem.

@mike_home - Thanks for your thorough response. Helpful. Appreciate it.

Pictures of our roof are attached. See below at the bottom. The loft/top floor has a strangely shaped roof. We're doing some lighting work and installing a fan up there. I might see if I can get someone to blow insulation in there (R40?) at the same time.

Thanks for your advice on the Carrier equipment. Is there a Trane line that's good? (If there's an equally good different brand at a lower price point, I could also hunt for someone who will install it.)

I noticed that some of the quotes we got had higher end AC's (Performance, Infinity) and lower end furnaces (Comfort). It doesn't ever really get very, very cold in the DC metro area, but it does get hot/humid. Does it make sense to invest in higher end AC, but skimp a little on the furnace -- or is this a bad move?

As for installation/sizing being more important than brand. I'm inclined to -- everything else being equal -- go with the contractor who's well rated and has the better labor warranty. Is this a good way to think about it, or not really? (Most contractors in our area provide 1 year labor warranty, but one of them has a 5 year warranty on labor.) They all have the same manufacturer-provided materials warranty.

Unfortunately, our HOA is pretty restrictive. Not just mini splits, but also window units are forbidden.

Alright -- might not explore Aeroseal further. Thanks.

Everything about the home is cramped. It was built to maximize for floor plan -- or so we were told. We might have space for a central air unit on the top floor .... in a closet. But nowhere else in the house is there space, unless we built a whole new closet, or took over a bedroom closet. I'd have to think more about the floor plan where a duct could run. Might not work, but I need to give it some more thought and look through the 4 floors of the townhome some more.

Your 4th floor appears to be a dormer. Do you know if this is how the house was originally built or was it added later? If the other houses have this dormer then I suggest you talk to your neighbors and ask how they have dealt with keeping the 4th level cool in the summer. They may have come up with a solution you can use in your house. You should verify how much insulation is in the ceiling above the 4th floor and add more as needed.

My suggestion is to always avoid the low end of any brand furnace or AC condenser if you can afford it. Even though you are not in a very cold climate, I still suggest getting a better built furnace. Even a single stage AC condenser would serve your needs. Your have a distribution problem that needs to be addressed. Unfortunately better equipment is not going to solve it.

You can purchase the best top of the line equipment. But if it is installed incorrectly it will never work well and probably die a premature death. You want a contractor who serious about his work. A 5 year labor warranty is nice, but make sure it doesn't come with strings attached such as a twice a year preventative plan at some high price.

Thanks @mike_home! Really useful advice.

To your questions:

* The dormer was at it was originally built (not added later). Back in 1995.

* Because of Covid-19, haven't spoken with enough neighbors yet about their experience. One claimed the problem cannot be fixed; another claimed that with adjusting the dampers they were happy with the outcome. Neither of them were measuring temperatures though. I hope to speak to other neighbors about it some time.

* Yes - I'm thinking I'll need to bring someone in to punch holes in the ceiling and look at the insulation. I missed the opportunity when we had the roof replaced shortly after moving in. R40 is the right material I should request? Assuming it will need to be blown in.

* As for proper installation being more important than the brand/HVAC system specs..... the strange thing is that the best warranty came from the contractor that spent the least amount of time at the house and did not insist on seeing the inside of the house. This gives me pause, but a 5 year warranty impresses me. Maybe I should not use them. The best/most meticulous guy who came out seems too busy to even write up a cost estimate. The second most meticulous guy to look at the house is in semi-retirement (he sold his business, but so many customers kept calling that after his non-compete ended, he started working again). Many of the other contractors were either from recommended vendors (from friends) or well-rated on Yelp/Angies list, but I wasn't as impressed with their knowledge or I felt like they were trying constantly to "upsell." Everyone who came out to see the system was referred or well-rated, but I don't feel qualified to judge who takes their work more seriously than the next guy .... other than just really superficial observations.

* I am having a hard time deciding whom to use on this project -- but I take seriously @sktn77a's suggestion to wait a year and do more measurements in summer/winter.

I really hope it doesn't break entirely in the interim. It is 25 years old, after all.

Hot air rises / cool air falls. Nothing you can do to prevent that it's science.

When you stack floors one on top of another it complicates home comfort. Because of the statement above. If there is no return on the floor it becomes a heat trap. It's harder for heat to escape once it hits ceiling level. You can place ceiling fans to aid in that but it's better to have a return that creates a natural flow back thru the HVAC system.

In multi level structures the other consequence is lack of control of the system. Meaning if you go back with a single thermostat to control the machine you will have 3 other floors that are likely at a completely different temperature.

This a big reason as to why you will not fix this structure with any single brand without addressing these issues. (They are design issues... primarily due to the design of the house.)

Your complaint is: The 4th level is too hot / area has no return. (heat trap --- 3 levels worth of heat make their way to 4th level with no where to go. Design, design, design... all day every day.

I am a HVAC contractor located roughly 3 clicks west of the gates of hell. Mike is a home owner in New Jersey. The three L's of HVAC --- location, location, location.

Truth. (it's ugly 9 times out of 10. That's how you know it's the truth. Plan accordingly.)

Time to jump in. I see a first floor with a garage, stairwell and equipment room/storage room with no windows, I don't see any livable space on the first floor is this correct A R? . The equipment room should be in a confined space so there will be two fresh air intakes for combustion, so you have about 2 sq. ft. of openings to the outside and it will be colder down there. Garages, kitchens, bathrooms and stairwells and confined equipment rooms don't have returns, so the first floor should not be considered.

The BTU size of the packages you listed for the sq. footage you have is a little overkill and the CFM air outputs listed may also be a little high for your present duct work but not excessive.. If your duct work was designed for 1200 cfm's, (400 cfm's/tn of cooling) and air velocity between 700 and 900 Feet per minute the increase to 1600 cfm's through the same main supply duct work will increase velocity to 1100-1200 Fpm. is this what you want A R? This higher velocity will change the vent noise heard, the air throw into the 2nd through 4th floor and drafts may be felt and hope the HVAC companies told you this, just be aware. The higher velocity will increase velocity pressure and static pressure for a higher total pressure and this is what will push air through the branch ducts so it will get more air to the 4th floor. Pushing 1200, 1400 or 1600 cfm's into the ducts will increase the velocity proportionally to the air volume.

The 4th floor problem may be from insulation as others stated but a simple air volume calculation and air temperature check coming from the 4th floor registers with the doors open would give you the answer. A Thermo anemometer any HVAC company should have will easily give the numbers. If they don't have one don't hire them, how could they set up your new system without one.

To install a return to the 4th floor wouldn't be hard, and without tearing out any walls as I see it. The way most returns are incorporated into a structure, using the cavity space between wall studs, and the fact returns are in center walls can be used to your advantage. If a return on the 3rd floor can be found in a non load bearing wall it can be extended to the 4th floor with just one hole in the floor of the 4th floor, and a floor vent cover used to cover it up. Locating is critical but through the floor hole the wall stud top plates can be cutout, the floor joist spaces can be blocked with thermopan and the third floor vent should have a sheetmetal blocker right above it in the wall space which will need removed. Done.

What you picked for equipment only matters in respect to matching the furnace/A coil box to the plenum opening. Most I've reviewed state they must match within an inch. They will all work if the opening matches, and any of them could break down the day the warranty ends. A big mistake people make is incorrectly sizing the furnace/A coil opening to the existing duct work, changing velocity and pressure loss, not good. Going from smaller to bigger lowers air velocity and bigger to smaller increases velocity but Cfm's stay the same.

"The higher velocity will increase velocity pressure and static pressure for a higher total pressure and this is what will push air through the branch ducts so it will get more air to the 4th floor. "

Yes, greater flow but for a shorter time (as the thermostat will reach setpoint faster in the other location). End result: no difference - 4th floor will be just as hot as before.

He did say he has dampers.

Dampers don't solve every problem Kevin.

I fixed one of these yuppie homes we have them here just inside the gates of hell. This particular structure I fixed was only 3 floors tall.

This one I fixed had dampers on it when I showed up. The OP has dampers on their system now / complaining top floor is too hot.

So what did I do to fix the one I worked on?: Redesigned the zone system. I've been back there earlier this year to fix it again (just over 5 years since the original fix -- you will always need service don't kid yourself) because they've gone thru the knuckle head tango of calling people out there to service it that only mess it up.

(It's outside my primary service area, so I charge extra to go out there.)

Plus it's a labor intensive job every time I go there / up down three flights of stairs. If you think service is free, you got some learning to do. I suppose you could find a few home owners to make suggestions... but how long will it take you until you realize you need a real pro?

I service the Katy, Texas area.

A multi zone system is needed, I agree. I was addressing the original posters questions and not options suggest by others, who suggested great ideas and were able to get more information from the OP to make an assessment. The vendors want to pump more air and increase the A/C Tonnage and heating BTU's, which Isn't the best solution but I can see his concerns about value so I'm not trying to push something out of his price range. With the average price on homes in D.C. well over 600K I can understand it.

The vendors are pushing constant speed condensers and single stage air handlers but If I was pushing better options I'd suggest replacing the equipment with a variable speed A/C unit and a high efficiency dual stage furnace now and configure them to run at full speed for now, which will be easier and convert to a multi zone system in the future when he's ready, but it wasn't his question.

You are right, he needs a real pro with the right answers. I just want to make him aware of the minor differences his new system may create if they hadn't told him, and the chance he could put a return in the 4th floor on the cheap. It's easy to spend other people's money, Washington D.C. does it all the time.

Well from the minute I've started watching this thread I have said from the get go this system needs to be redesigned.

I am a pro, that doesn't serve the area in which this person lives. I refused when asked multiple times what brand is better than another. I instead told him to put it off until he can do the whole job properly.

If my pro moniker doesn't mean anything to you, then ignore everything I say. I've fixed this style of home before. It was so bad at this particular home I fixed that the home owner was sleeping in the bottom level. The master suite is on the 3rd floor. How hard is it to know where the family is sleeping when you make a house call? I guess if you're blind, you should stop driving around...

There was little trust from this home owner initially. They ran back to the builder first, had them make repairs... because: they designed the original system. I warned her what they were going to do wasn't going to change much.

Sure enough less than a year later I was out there redesigning it.

This whole system the OP has needs to be redesigned, it may include more than that due to the limitations of the structure. If you're going to fix it you have to have the mentality that a building is not going to defeat you. It may mean major renovation costs... I don't know I am not there... I was able to fix the 3 floor one I worked on for minimal cost. It wasn't cheap, but it could have been much more costly too.

Currently this house I am describing above is now a rental. So that machine gets a work out.

Thanks, @Austin Air Companie, @kevin9408, @mike_home, and @sktn77a, for your helpful input. I really appreciate it.

To your questions and comments:

@Austin Air Companie

1. Agreed. If I can identify a pro that can do the work, I'd happily look into the feasibility and cost of adding a return on floor 4 (or other solutions, for that matter).

2. Any advice on identifying a suitable professional? As I'd mentioned, I've had somewhere between 5-10 contractors out who — at least on paper (Angie's list/Yelp) looked good or were referred by friends. I understand that's not guaranteed to find us a real professional, so I'd appreciate any hints/tips on finding the right professional.

3. Yes - our system has dampers. However — important point — I did not know I had them during the hottest/coldest periods we've lived here (only lived here since February). I did not know they were there largely because of a mixture of needing a ladder to actually see them and ignorance.

@kevin9408

4. I'm sorry. The computer-rendered graphic of the home is inaccurate on one part. The back side of the home does not have a garage door, but rather a 3 pane sliding glass door. It's livable space on floor 1. Floor 1 has a garage, hallway, stairwell, and 17' x 12'7" room that serves variously as an office/bedroom. (I should have noted this when I posted the pictures. My apologies.)

5. The furnace + coil + water heater sit in the garage.

6. The fresh air intakes lead directly into the livable space on the 1st floor

7. Noted. I should ask the HVAC contractor to take a thermo anemometer reading on the 4th floor with doors opened.

8. I was able to track down a floor plan. I think if the return's ductwork were extended from the 3rd floor up to the 4th floor it would pop out into a closet on the 4th floor. Is this a suitable place, or would further routing be required? Apologies for the ignorance? How would we know if the wall is a load bearing wall? Would we need to bring in a carpenter, architect, or structural engineer to determine this?

9. Sorry - I'm not sure I'm following your other question. If I'm following you, I think what you're saying is that you suspect our ductwork was designed for lower CFM and dialing up the CFM will increase the noise of the system, and you're asking if this is something I want (i.e., more noise)? Am I capturing your question, or did I miss a part of it?

10. Are you suggesting we use a system with lower BTUs/tonnage, lower CFM, all of the above, something else?

11. Our current system is furnace: 75k BTUs, 80%AFUE, AC: 3 ton, 36k BTU, 10 SEER, 3.5 ton, 42k BTU coil — but if you were to ask if this (original) system is correctly sized to the ductwork, I'd have to say "I'm not sure."

I'm going to try to summarize the discussion so far just to make sure I've captured next steps. So far, I think I'm hearing the following recommendations: (Please let me know if I've missed any or I'm misconstruing your recommendation.)

INSULATION:

- consider opening up the 4th floor ceiling to add insulation (R40 [?]) between ceiling and roof

EXPERTISE & DIAGNOSTICS/TESTING

- Ask more of my neighbors what they've done to solve the problem

- Find a true "professional" (any advice/recommendations on how to do this in the DC metro area?)

- Ask the HVAC contractor to take a thermo anemometer reading on the 4th floor registers with doors opened.

- Look carefully at a 5-year labor warranty to make sure it doesn't come with "strings attached" (e.g., high-cost, bi-annual preventative plan)

DUCTWORK & SYSTEM DESIGN

- wait a full year to assess how much actually using the dampers improves cold 1st floor (winter) and hot 4th floor (summer)

- add a return on the 4th floor by extending from the 3rd floor, cutting a hole in the floor of the 4th floor (in the closet), removing the 3rd floor vent's sheet metal blocker, installing a floor vent, cutting out the wall stud top plates, blocking the floor joist spaces with thermopan (only works if the return on the 3rd floor is in a non-load bearing wall)

- a ceiling fan on floor 4 will help some, but it won't be as good as having a return installed there

- Aeroseal is not likely going to solve our problem

- Maybe add a return on floor 1 (??)

- consider converting to multi-zone system (at a later date/when budget permits)

EQUIPTMENT

- Don't focus too much attention on brands, etc.; focus instead on ductwork and design.

- Don't ever buy any brand's lower end unit (e.g., Carrier Comfort; Performance is better value)

- Make sure the contractor matches the furnace/coil box to the plenum opening (within an inch)

- be skeptical of vendors who think the solution is to use constant speed condenser

- be skeptical of vendors who think the solution is simply to increase A/C tonnage and/or heating BTU's

- only consider using a 2-stage, variable speed AC and high-efficiency dual stage furnace

Why are you replacing the unit? Is it just because it's 25 years old? Is there any problem with it, other than the 4th floor issue?

@mtvhike - Thanks for your question.

The first floor is unacceptably cold in the winter and the top floor unacceptably warm, but the system itself seems largely fine. (At least so far as I can tell — as a non-professional.)

The original plan had been to replace quickly for a couple reasons (but we're open to delaying the replacement, if it will allow us to do more experimentation with the dampers):

1. Our inspector was very emphatic that we replace it ASAP (our home owner's insurer also had a conniption when they learned the age of the system)
2. Contractors have pointed to signs that the condenser and furnace have had a lot of work done on them over the years and system is likely to "kick the bucket" soon
3. With the cost of EPA-outlawed refrigerant through the roof, I'm reluctant to top it off rather than invest in another system (admittedly, the unit was tolerably fine for cooling during the summer except for 4th floor, but we don't try to keep the house very, very cold either — so not sure when it will need a top off)
4. Fear that system failure will leave us without cooling/heat at the worst possible time (we have an infant in the house).

Not sure if these are "good" reasons, but they're what we were considering as we brought contractors in to look.

1. A R, a thermo anemometer is a tool for find values. Calculations are required by a professional to determine problems. The 4th floor ducts off the supply trunk and at the 4th floor are measured for air temp and velocity and that's it for the tool. Now it's time to calculate CFM, Friction head loss, percentage of air leakage, heat/cooling loss, room size and a basic load calculation of the room to determine the problem. This is what separates a professional from hack installer. It could be heat gain (A/C) in the vent running up a wall, or leakage due to sloppy installation, the room is to big for the supply or lastly the 4th floor installation. With 30 minutes and a tablet and apps all this could be determined with 100% accuracy by a professional, and with a thermal imaging camera the pro could even pinpoint the problems to show you. This is a professional.
2. With the blue prints (lucky you) the return just got easier. Any tradesman who can read blue prints can help, no need for a architect, or structural engineer, it's already been designed and engineered. No, a closet won't work but the blue prints will show the stud cavity location in reference to third and 4th floors and could maybe be directed with thermopan inside the floor joist cavity to a acceptable location.
3. You are correct, if it's designed for 1200 CFM's with a velocity between 700 and 900 FPM Increasing the Cfm will increase the velocity. It's like turning a fan from low to medium, you will hear a difference. Will in matter? Ask those 5 to 10 who came out. The 1400 Cfm units will increase velocity about 16% and the 1600 Cfm unit will increase velocity about 33%. No I'm not suggesting smaller or 1200 Cfm units. I just wanted you to be aware, What you feel and hear coming out the vents now will increase somewhat, even more somewhat with 1600 CFM's barrelling threw those ducts.
4. Did anyone say only use a variable speed A/C or dual stage unit? Not me, what I would do is always overkill and obsessive by design and the equipment will give you more options in the future if you plan to stay there, but never said to use them.
5. BEST ANSWER should ever go to who ever told you to ask the neighbors, BEST! almost everything should be identical and gave you the best advice to start with, don't try and re-invent the wheel I say.

Thanks, @kevin9408. This is really helpful.

- Thanks for the clarification on the thermo anemometer and related diagnostics. I have a clearer idea now.

- Sorry. My writing was a little unclear. The blueprints unfortunately don't exist any longer. Neither the developer nor the original owner retained them. What I do have are the floor plans (e.g., what an interior decorator might look — shows stairs, toilets, doors, approximate size of rooms).

- Thanks for clarifying on CFM/velocity/noise relationship.

- Noted. Can't put a return in a closet. Too bad.

- Understood. Sorry. Misinterpreted you. I'm now understanding you to be saying that 2-stage, variable speed AC and high-efficiency dual stage furnace is 'nice-to-have' not 'need-to-have.'

- Agreed. I need to double down on asking what has worked for neighbors (and what hasn't). We've only lived here since late February, and then COVID hit, so we're still getting to know folks in the neighborhood. So far one neighbor said she's happy with how her top floor feels, and another neighbor has said that keeping the door open on the 4th floor and a fan blowing is critical, but it's still not great. But there are many more neighbors I can potentially ask — just need to get to know them first who live in similarly-laid out townhomes.

A R, I think given the complexity and the likely cost, not to mention the trouble of finding a contractor who would actually stick there neck out to do this -- my personal opinion of doing this for 26 yrs is --- you will have differing opinions when it comes to neighbors. Comfort doesn't mean the same to everyone. Watch the service trucks that come in the area. Everyone has their own guy they use.

Many people just live with what they got. Spend some time there, then move.

This little tidbit isn't meant to discourage you... but the type of property you have has a lengthy list of problems primarily due to the design of the building. Room to do what needs to be done... well capacity has it's restraints. I know first hand because I've done a job similar to this.

Everything get's crammed into the attic or worse yet a closet. It's an extremely complicated jigsaw puzzle to piece it together let alone keep it operating. Every time the system breaks down, it's a new challenge. I know because I actually returned to the install I did a shade over 5 years prior. Everyone likes to argue over money.

Be wary of the silver tongued salesman. I tell it like it is. I make no bold claims. If it turns out better than what I originally thought... well that's my philosophy of under promising / over delivering. My philosophy turns many away... and that's ok. I am not in the candy making business. What I sell is quite difficult to swallow more times than not.

This residence you have isn't like every other residence. Most of the homes out there are typically no more than 2 floors. Even with 2 floors and one system there are problems. Then there's even more in that realm that just live with it, due to cost.

At least that's how it is here where I live. People come to my area for work primarily, it's extremely rare to come across people who plan to live here beyond their work years. So if your area is similar to that... I think you'll mostly find people who are living with the problem. Opening doors, using fans to some extent to move air around, etc.

CHOOSE

2) $8,129.00

BRAND: Carrier

FURNACE: Comfort 58SB0A090E17--14, 82%, 90k BTU, 1400 CFM, 2 speed

AC: Comfort 24ABC636A003, 3 ton, 16 SEER, 36k BTU, single

COIL: 3.5 ton, 42K BTU, CNPVP4217ALA 4.5

When is it time to replace?

https://www.ductless-mini-split-air-conditioner.org/

Certain telltale signs indicate it's time to consider replacing heating and cooling equipment, or improving the performance of your overall system. It may be time to call a professional contractor to help you make a change if:

Your heat pump or air conditioner is more than 10 years old.

Consider replacing it with a unit that has earned the ENERGY STAR label. Installed correctly, these high-efficiency units can save up to 20 percent on heating and cooling costs.

Your furnace or boiler is more than 15 years old.

Consider replacing with an ENERGY STAR qualified furnace, which is 15% more efficient than a conventional furnace. If you have a boiler, consider replacing with an ENERGY STAR qualified boiler that is 5% more efficient than a new, standard model.

Your equipment needs frequent repairs and your energy bills are going up.

Your cooling or heating equipment may have become less efficient.

Some rooms in your home are too hot or too cold.

Improper equipment operation, duct problems or inadequate insulation could be the cause.

No one is home for long periods of the day and you do not have a programmable thermostat.

Install a programmable thermostat or have a good contractor install one and instruct you on its use — to start saving energy and money while they're away or sleeping.

Your home has humidity problems.

Poor equipment operation, inadequate equipment, and leaky ductwork can cause the air to be too dry in the winter or too humid in the summer.

Your home has excessive dust.

Leaky ducts can pull particles and air from attics, crawl spaces and basements and distribute them throughout your house. Sealing your ducts may be a solution.

Your heating or cooling system is noisy.

You could have an undersized duct system or a problem with the indoor coil of your cooling equipment.

Thanks, @Austin Air Companie and @Marc Well for your responses.

@Austin Air Companie -

I appreciate your candor. Yes - I too am worried about 'silver-tongued' salespeople. Hence why a site like this is so valuable.

@Marc Well -

Thanks. #2 is the winner in your view? What in particular about that system stands out to you? (@mike_home was advising to steer clear of the "Comfort" line altogether.)

Unfortunately, we can't use a mini-split because of HOA regulations.

It's unclear to me from your note if you're disagreeing with @sktn77a's recommendation to wait a full calendar year before replacing to experiment further with the damper system. Apologies for my confusion.

@Austin Air Companie -

I appreciate your candor. Yes - I too am worried about 'silver-tongued' salespeople. Hence why a site like this is so valuable.

You're welcome. A site like this can be a land mine due to the 'political' nature of this profession. This is another reason why I post here, to give you an alternative view of someone who actually does the work. It's a brutal profession in more ways than one. (I'm no spring chicken if you know what I mean.)

If you do every thing right with every home you own in your life time for most people replacing / fixing HVAC related trouble is probably at most 4 times in your life. (Unless you own rental property).

Some people much less than 4 times. I've had customers up and move to a new home every 10-15 years to avoid the serious costs of HVAC related stuff. So the cost is hidden using this way in closing costs and cons of packing and moving.

I know you've got your work cut out for you if you decide to seriously tackle this problem. To cuts costs on the job I sold / there were trade offs as the builder when the home was built over sized the duct work. Because this was a 3 story structure with little to no room, modifications were only made to what was accessible.

Because I am the one actually doing the work, I am able to give insight as to how things will work & things won't work as well when certain actions are done in how the HVAC system(s) are controlled or used if you will by the occupants of the structure.

I've had various people over the years call me up, never used me once before trust me with a major repair / replacement. It's a huge responsibility to do this job, do it right. (When many have no clue as to what right is.)

No one in their right mind says when their 5 years old: I want to be an HVAC guy when I grow up.

For one, most of my life I grew up without air conditioning. Good luck in your search.

For those of you wondering what area I service: I service the Katy, Texas area.

"Air-conditioning units installed globally is set to jump from about 1.6 billion today to 5.6 billion by the middle of the century, according to the International Energy Agency."

Looking forward a 5 year old today MAY want to think about working in the HVAC industry when they grow up.

Here is an ad I found on Indeed. You can make good living and a job that is not going away.

HVAC Lead Technician

Tri-Tech Energy, Inc.

Wayne, NJ

$75,000 - $100,000 a year

Easily apply Responsive employer Urgently hiring

• As a Lead Technician, you will install, diagnose, troubleshoot, and repair commercial and residential HVAC systems.
• Repair wiring and electronic components.

·Save job26 days ago

Until you go in to apply for the position, they tell you the pay is commission based.

So if you're not also a 'silver tongued' salesman, your pay is likely at best 30K a year or less and at risk of being let go. These kinds of ads are nothing new Mike. I've seen them for 20 years.

They talk a good game... but it's just a game like everything else.

You're a home owner Mike. How could you know?

Why is a position like this commission based? because techs lie, ride the clock... meanwhile the company goes broke, due to non-productivity --- or giving services away. (Some companies will employ these measures to get their foot in your door. You know we won't charge you for advice sort of thing... but their advice is heavily stacked in their favor. It has to be... they are paying 100's of thousands of dollars to make high cost TV ads, not to mention other forms of ads.)

The position is a good secure position that isn't going away... but if you think it's easy as just 'showing up' to make $75-100K a year... you're beyond clueless.

There are more techs that try this field and quit, than there are techs that succeed and become anything remotely what I wake up to every morning. Why do you think there are so many ads looking for people. Hint *high turn over, churn mill*.

Remember I've been doing this for 26 years... 13 of those years I worked for other companies. This isn't meant to discourage a younger generation from doing this... but there is no such thing as an 'easy profession' to make a livable wage. This job is hard, hard, hard. People will call you rip off artist, lying cheating con man, tell you the company you work for cheated them when the system fails. You will work in the weather... hot, cold, mild, windy, rainy, thunderstorms. You will craw under homes in rat infested dumps, climb thru attics maybe if you're fortunate you won't plummet to serious injury up to and including death by being impaled by something.

You will sit in a truck for many hours. Get used to it because you will more or less live in that truck. You will work from sun-up to sun down and sometimes beyond that. Some days you'll will be busy, making good money. When the calls come at a trickle you'll still be sitting in that truck... the pay won't be as good then. It's a seasonal business any way you slice it.

There will be the calls you spend hours on, but because you're running a 'free estimate bid' you won't make nothing on those that you don't sell. Do too many of those and the company will cut you loose. Why would this company put you in a truck and keep you there if you don't perform like they think you should?

There will be those employees who wanting to get a leg up, go and snitch on you. There will be favorites.. those who get to go home early while you continue to work. You're nearly to your front door... then another call comes in. You're on call... forget your plans.

On that call you find out that another clueless idiot that snitched on you had been out on this call earlier didn't perform the repair right and the condensate pan is over flowing dripping into yet another pan from another unit that is also backing up flooding the home.

What's all this you ask: It's what the ad doesn't say. If they told you all that... there would be far less people who stick their neck out. Remember, I've lived it... 26 years is a LONG TIME.

I don't run a 'churn mill' -- if that's what you want, good luck. The Ray Austin way is only achieved by using Ray Austin. The few, the happy, the service when you need it. (I can't service everyone, nor do I try.)

I service the Katy, Texas area

You're a home owner Mike. How could you know?

There is currently a shortage of HVAC techs in NJ. How do I know this? The organization I work for employs techs to maintain the HVAC systems needed in the building I work in. My boss told me one of the techs recently left to work at a nearby hospital. He believes he doubled his salary. The HVAC shortage is so bad, that my boss has had to recruit HVAC students before they graduate. These are well paying jobs with full medical, dental, and 401K contribution benefits.

In the past the Carrier dealer I use for preventative maintenance would normally show up within a week of a phone call. When I called in June I was told the earliest appointment for preventative maintenance was September 17.

The reasons are why techs leave to go work elsewhere. Shift work at a hospital allows you more of a 'life' than working for a service company. This move isn't always about $money$.

I've worked both maintenance related jobs (shift work) meaning you work a shift and go home. Versus working 6 days a week, being on rotating on call, then being asked to work your day off on top of that.

This shortage in HVAC is everywhere. Not just limited to New Jersey.

With that said: here's some *truth* for you in regards to what you're most likely to make being an HVAC Technician. These numbers are nationwide numbers. Given that so you understand why there is a shortage... the real numbers don't lie. Commission based pay has it's perks, but everything comes with a cost. (time)

Commission based pay is not guaranteed pay. No where even close.

Thanks, @Austin Air Companie and @kevin9408

@Austin Air Companie

"I know you've got your work cut out for you if you decide to seriously tackle this problem."

Yep. Sure feels that way.

I think the hardest part will be finding someone to do the work. Not just a "silver-tongued" salesman, but someone who wants to do it right.

Ray,

In the example I was giving at my work, the shift is 8am-5pm Monday-Friday. Occasionally some installations have to be done during the evenings but that is rare. The HVAC techs where I work have it pretty easy compared what you have to do. The move was more about making more money.

To be fair, the job I posted is for a small company that does mostly commercial work. Perhaps commercial techs are paid at the higher end of the pay scale. The requirements were at least 8 years experience, so this is not an entry level position. There was no mention of sales in the responsibilities. Selling a commercial system is very different than a residential sale. Where I work large projects have to be put out for a completive bid. The techs may share in some sales driven bonuses as part of their the salary. You would know more about that than I would.

Ok Mike, commercial is completely different. For one roughly 99% of those commercial buildings are leased. In commercial, you lease a shell of a structure / fix it the way you intend to use it. I suppose the owner of the building (landlord) could take the role of helping you, if you lease from them.

So this is how the commercial realm is different. Most of the time that work is 8-5 as you suggest because those are typical hours of commercial buildings. No opportunity to make the big numbers in a non-commission type job. It's hourly work, paid weakly more often than not. (very weakly)

The pay for commercial (most of which is being a filter & belt change specialist) is probably in the realm of $25 an hour. With benefits too, but if you do the number crunch 25x8= daily / daily x 5 = weekly / weekly x 52 = NO WHERE CLOSE TO 75K- 100K (*unless you add in the benefits package as many do. So there's a lot of con job stuff that goes on in this realm. It's always painted rosy, they give you a title that means nothing, etc.)

($52,000 to be exact and much less than that starting out as $25 an hour is a top rate nearly everywhere.)

This is why you don't hire a commercial company to do residential work. Most of the time they are changing belts / filters.

Back to the OP topic:

You need a zone system specialist that isn't afraid to do demo work to get at the ducts that are there now or come up with a plan to re-use them in some fashion. Better to replace and redesign, but that's a decision to be made when you're considering cost options and have someone who is best suited to do this job.

There are inherent challenges to this, most of which I think is skill related or they just want to try to fix everything with new equipment. New equipment can fix *some* things, not all.

The other challenge is time. These types of structures are margin killers. Labor is always the highest ingredient. You look for cheaper labor, skill *what there is anyway* falls off a proverbial cliff.

This isn't to say, that just because you spend more that everything is better either. You need some boxes to check. Like who is going to do the work, who is going to supervise that work to be done, who is going to check the work after the job is complete.

What are the hurdles to it working? Remember it's science. If someone tells you there are no hurdles... refer back to silver tongue dialog above. (in this thread) .