I am assuming no waterproofing was done pretile. My 3x5 shower with cbc, proper waterproofing, labor and tile was 6k to construct. This looks like a done to the studs rebuild and properly water proof and retile job so most likely with demo costs more than what I paid to do it properly.

You may be looking at replacement vs repair...which could get very expensive. Which would be a big factor in negotiating how much you're willing to pay for the apartment.

On second thought--is that travertine tile?

If so, I wouldn't even think about trying to repair it. All those pits in the tile--haven for soap scum, dead skin, mineral deposits, mold... (travertine is quite porus).

I would pass on the apartment or buy it cheap enough to replace the shower w/ a good margin for the time & hassle to do so.

Would we need to rip out all the tiles and possibly repair the wall behind it?

Uh, yeah.

How can we check for water damage?

By ripping out all the tiles and investigating the wall behind it! 😬

I do wonder if this damage is coming from outside the shower, though, rather than from the inside.

I would look at the big picture ... what is the age and condition of the building itself. Use binoculars to check the exterior walls and windows. You aren't just buying an apartment, but part ownership in a building that you will have to pay to maintain and repair. What large maintenance project have been done and which ones are planned for the future. I would also worry that the tile damage is due to outside issues.

We rented in a high rise apartment in Boston years ago and they did a major window replacement project. Each apartment was assessed a large amount to cover their part of the project.

It is most probably a gut as it is likely that the tiles are falling off because there is water damage. In general you can't do a spot repair of a shower because the waterproofing is intended to be seamless and I would imagine that the damage you can see if the tip of the iceberg.

I would also be suspicious of waterproofing for the window. I live in a condo and older windows are notorious for leaking. Also in a multi-family building, water leaks can come from above because water will travel in odd ways once it gets in.

This is purely conjecture but I bet there was a bathtub there originally and therefore waterproofing of the exterior wall wasn't as much of an issue.

Keep in mind that the cost to do any remodeling in a condo or coop is more expensive than in a single family home. The coop Board will generally have rules which make it more cumbersome and expensive for work to be done. Everything from hours (shorter times and later starts/earlier end of day) and protection of floors and walls in communal spaces. My GC had to put down and take up protective covering EVERY DAY. This was a substantial line item on my contract. Also if there is an elevator, it takes more time to take down and bring up materials.

I would make any offer contingent on an inspection and make sure that your inspector is familiar with the kind of construction of your building.

Also - and this doesn't relate to construction - make sure you carefully ready Minutes and all Governing Documents. Study the budget and find out what the reserves are and how much of each monthly assessment is put into the Reserve Fund.

Plan on redoing all of that. And then some. 10K as a astart, with the condo restrictions and difficulties factored in.

Aside from the shower issues, why is the lid to the toilet tank not sitting properly on the tank? If it's like that when the property is being shown to potential buyers (when you're supposed to have the "best face forward") it's kinda weird.

And is that a ladder against the bathroom window in the second photo?

Well you can see right in the first picture the cement board underneath with the mortar pulling off there is no waterproofing. On top of that though it shouldn't get THAT wet where that damage is, especially that high up the wall. I'd bet you have some more moisture/temperature expansion contraction and migration issues going on there around the window and exterior wall.

Personally, I'd turn around and run. That is some serious $$$ right there hiding in that wall. Probably 10-12K minimum just to rip it out and investigate and redo the shower IF that is the only issue. If there is major water penetration into the exterior wall and resulting ice expansion damage, holy buckets....I hope you have a rich uncle.

Thanks for all the comments. Please keep it coming. So this is on the 20ish floor of a building. Might be difficult to check the outside. It appears this might be a job that requires taking down the tiles, examining the wall and fixing the issue. We were considering renovating the entire bathroom before or after we move in in the future anyway. So maybe redoing the entire bathroom earlier is the better option and keeping the cost the same as building a new bathroom. Thoughts?

20 floors up? What Super Lumen said. RUN!

Gotta' wonder--if this was an easy fix then why wasn't it done before it was put on the market?

Seen this before and not one occasion, most likely everything behind the tile deteriorated, the framing, the sheeting, etc.

The condo should supply a “resale” package with info on the association’s financial position, planned repairs, etc. Get a copy of the reserves study if it is isn’t included the the resale package. You don’t want to buy a special assessment.

Twenty stories up the moisture could be seeping down from above. Then not only will you have to do the bathroom you will also have to pay for whatever is causing the problem. Please forget about this one.

maifleur, it depends on where the water is coming from. If this is a condo or an apartment in a co-op building, and the source of the water is a common element, then the co-op or condo association has to pay for the repairs to stop the water intrusion at a minimum. They may also be responsible for the cost of repairs to the unit. It depends on the state where the unit is located, that state's laws and the condo docs.

Talk to the neighbors, especially in the floors above you. Ask about the co-op (or the HOA) and about problems with the building. The best time to meet your new neighbors is before you buy.

jhug Where do you think co-ops and condo associations get the money for repairs. Since the owners are members of the association it does come out of each and every one of the owners pockets.

Of course it comes from assessments from ALL the owners. Your wording made it sound like the owner of that unit would be responsible for the entire cost which isn’t true. One owner isn’t responsible for repairing the exterior if that is where the leak is. The buyer gets the resale package which should show what funds the association has to pay for large repairs and how well they are funding their reserves for future repairs and upgrades. As I said, no one wants to but a special assessment to pay for repairs that the association didn’t collect for in anticipation of the need. If you do, factor it into the purchase price.

Pay a portion or pay the whole thing the owners still pay. If there is something wrong causing moisture from above it is an additional expense. May even be two expenses if the repairs are made and more water seeps from above. Something for the OP to discuss with the management concerning checking for problems on the roof rather than assuming it is just from a faulty installation.

So if it's structural or exterior damage, that lead to this or water getting in, then it's the responsibility of the coop/building to repair it? If i plan to gut renovate the bathroom, would my cost be limited to a regular renovation cost because the building will have to pick up the cost of major issues if it's dealing with outside or leaks from neighbors upstairs?

Maybe. It depends on the state laws, the association docs, the source of the leak, etc. you need to talk to a local real estate attorney, IMO, before you sign anything. You also need to look at the association docs and reserve study. Personally, I would look elsewhere because of the potential hassles, expense and time it might take to get the problem solved if it is coming from outside the four walls of the condo.

@GN Builders L.L.C Thank you for your example and pictures. We are planning to demo it. Would the problem described in your pictures cost more for the replacement of sheet rocks, etc? or does it cost the same as a regular demo since it's replacing everything. If there's a difference in cost, how much Extra would the replacement of sheet rock or fixing this additional problem cost? Thank you!

It depends on how bad everything is behind that wall. In my case its been leaking for a long time until there was nothing left behind there so the siding had to be removed, new sheeting, and everything else.

In your case, it's near the window, you have framing members that support the header, etc. So you don't know the extent of the damage, it could be no damage at all and the sheetrock just pulled away from the wall because it was improperly fastened.

Have to open the wall up and see what behind there and you will know the next step.

What's the worst case scenario in my situation in terms of cost? let's say if i am spending $15,000 to redo the entire bathroom, would this add another $5000 to it? I'll check with the broker or real estate attorney and ask if it's the responsibiity of the coop building for exterior damage. This is in new york city. Thanks.

Is that mold on the tile? If so, you'll probably need to add in some $$ to ensure you get rid of all of it.

I would expect NYC would be more expensive than here in the heartland but $15,000 would not begin to cover redoing a bathroom depending on what you are calling redoing.

That is not a $15,000 job in NYC. More likely a $25,000 to gut and redo with the problems here. And that's assuming there are no additional problems with rotted wood, etc behind the shower or on the floor.

FWIW, I live in a high rise condo in Los Angeles and recently finished a gut remodel which included taking the shower to the studs and some reframing of walls. The Code in Los Angeles for a multi-family high rise requires steel framing and studs so there isn’t any wood. The framing in the shower and everywhere is metal.

I imagine Code for a high rise in any jurisdiction also requires steel. I got a bit of education in construction as I also learned that the metal framing has to be placed at specified spacing. I would imagine this is for fire safety as well as structural integrity but a structural engineer would no doubt have the exact reason.

Just another reason why hiring a designer and/or general contractor familiar with high rises specifically is a good idea to minimize screwups.