Is it possible for the pantry to be switched with the bathroom?

It is possible, but I would hate to lose the window in the pantry, if I can help it.

I don't like main sinks in the kitchen island.

I would center the sink across from the island, on the 'back' wall. This will allow you to put a traditional window at the sink, instead of using transom windows.

Then you have two options for the stove/refrigerator...

- Leave the refrigerator where it is, and put the stove to the right of the new sink location.

- Put the stove on the short wall, then relocate the fridge to the far left or right of the sink.

I would definitely want a full window above the main sink, but I'd move it closer to the DR and put the prep sink on the island. That would allow helpers to load or unload the DW, or gather dishes to set the table, without entering the prep/cooking zone. I'd keep the wall oven, even if you use a range, but flip it with the fridge, to put the fridge closer to the prep counter. A MW in an upper beside the fridge would turn that short run into a coffee/snack area, to keep grazers out of the work aisle.

Thank you!! Unfortunately I failed to mention that the back wall in the kitchen is shared with the garage. In order to add more natural light, the architect suggested lowering the roof in the garage and adding a flat roof to allow for the transoms. In a perfect world, I would love a large window above my sink, but we had to make some compromises and this is one thing that I had to say goodbye to as my dh has always dreamed of a large 4+ car garage. Knowing that there is no way to add a window to the kitchen space, would you still suggest the layout above? Thank you all for your help!

Yes, I would still move the sink and DW to the left, but keep the transom windows. The more light, the better, IMO. If you need symmetry, you might want to make adjustments to the appliances--I positioned them solely for function.

I agree with @mama goose_gw zn6OH. Exactly what I would do.

I wouldn't do your main sink in the island since it's the best prep space you have, and you're planning a prep sink there already. Unless you're planning on doing all of your prep in your mess kitchen, I guess, but the sink is a bit far from the action in there (if you plan on using that sink a lot you may want to move it closer and put the least used stuff in that back area). I spend most of my time in the kitchen prepping, and that's also when people are sitting at my island for conversation. During cleanup - no one's at the island. They're relaxing after dinner watching TV or whatever. So just think about how it will function for you in how you use your kitchen. The symmetry of a range and hood isn't really all that great if it results in a less functional kitchen.

Your extra wall oven probably won't be used all that often if you have a 48" range, so moving it farther from the main kitchen space (or eliminating it entirely) is an option if you prefer. Or put it in your mess kitchen.

I really appreciate everyone's help!! Thank you all SO much!!

If it were me, I'd move the oven to the end of the wall on the main part. Move the cleanup sink next to the fridge and center the cooktop on the rest of the long perimeter. This way the two sinks are not right on top of one another and the cleanup sink is a bit away from the prep sink so if someone is loading/unloading dishes while another person is prepping, they're not stepping around one another..

Also I would not put the messy kitchen sink in the corner like you have it. Too difficult to stand and do stuff at.

If you choose wall ovens many include a steam oven with a full size convection in the stack. With wall ovens you can drop the gas range and look at a 36" induction cooktop from Miele or Bosch. Both have very good dishwashers. Miele has a good steam oven.

Thank you!! And with regards to the sink in the messy kitchen, where do you think would be the best placement? I also want to add a refrigerator to that space, as we currently have our extra fridge in the garage and it is a bit of a pain to access.

What are you planning to use that sink for?

You may want to consider rearranging the messy kitchen & the guest bath/closet space. I know you said you wanted a window in there, but it kind of depends on how you use it.

If you make your messy kitchen behind your kitchen wall, you may be able to consolidate your plumbing and make things a bit more accessible.

We are planning to use the sink in the messy kitchen as a clean up sink. On the nights where I can't get to washing all the dishes, I see this as being a good place to put the pots, pans, etc while always keeping the main kitchen area tidy. We are also planning to put a small pass through door from the garage to the pantry to aide in unloading groceries, so that will sit under the counter about 12' into the pantry. I like the idea of a sink under a window, but it probably wouldn't get much use in its current location. If we moved the sink closer to the main kitchen, where is the best location for the fridge?

We are planning to use the sink in the messy kitchen as a clean up sink. On the nights where I can't get to washing all the dishes, I see this as being a good place to put the pots, pans, etc while always keeping the main kitchen area tidy.

So you're planning on shlepping pots back and forth between the messy kitchen and the main kitchen? Same with dishes? Seems like extra steps for not a whole lot of reward. I'd sooner get a second dishwasher to throw the pots in so no one can see them. At least then, once they're washed, they're near the point of putting them away near where they're going to be used.

And something to think of. Dishwashers today are so much better that almost any pot can be put in without scrubbing first and will come out clean.

We are also planning to put a small pass through door from the garage to the pantry to aide in unloading groceries, so that will sit under the counter about 12' into the pantry.

Um you'd better check local codes because of fire blocking it may not be allowed.

So I've always washed my pots and pans by hand, is there any issue putting them in a dishwasher? If not, two dishwashers is a WONDERFUL idea!!

The door I'm planning to use for the pass thru would be a custom fireproof rated door that can lock. I am waiting to hear back from the architect to see if this will be a problem. Hopefully not! :)

Thank you again for all your wonderful ideas!!!

If you can't wash them in the dishwasher, you can stash them there for the time being until you have time to wash them if you have 2 dishwashers. So they're out of sight but you won't have to lug them back into a pantry, wash them, then lug them back to where you store them.

Good point! Thank you!!!

I'd hate the trek to the fridge from the dining area to grab the milk and mayo I forgot. I would rather have the fridge and stove locations reversed with the fridge all the way at the dining end of the cabinet run. A dish drawer in the dining end of the island will be convenient for setting the table. Sink in the center of the island and DW to the left, IMO. More drawers will add more accessible storage than overhead cabinets. Consider this especially in the messy kitchen.

THANK YOU Decoenthusiaste!!! Great advice!! I did think about having a separate fridge and freezer on that back wall (fridge on the left near the dining area and freezer to the right closer to the messy kitchen). I'm a huge fan of symmetry, so I'm thinking this could work? Thoughts?

I'm not sure I wouldn't just put the freezer in the messy kitchen. How often do you access it in a day? Thinking if your fridge provides ice and water, the freezer would only be for long term storage and not something you need to get into every few minutes during meal prep.

I wouldn't put your range on the short wall. If anything, put your cleanup sink there. It doesn't have a window as it stands anyway. You want your range protected, and if you move it to the short wall it will be in the path to the pantry from your living areas.

I grew up in an amazing MCM ranch home built in 1963. The kitchen was sandwiched in between the dining room and laundry room and didn't have any windows, but it was beautifully lit with the natural light coming through the clerestory windows.

I don't have any pictures of the inside without digging through old family photo albums, but I was able to get a street view that shows the clerestory windows from the outside.

If you're cooking at the range and need something that you've stored near the sink in the pantry, isn't that an awfully long traipse? I'd want a more square kitchen.

Everyone has their preferred way of operating in the kitchen, but as far as function goes, having your sink, prep area, and stove all in a line is so much more functional than having the sink ACROSS from your stove. Why move the sink across from the stove if you don’t have to? I suggest that having it there is certainly not optimal. Analyze the way you prep and cook. I normally go from fridge to prep area next to my sink and then to the stove. When preparing, washing and chopping veggies, or cutting up raw chicken etc., the next thing I do is bring all those items to the stove for cooking. Having the sink ACROSS the isle from your stove necessitates carrying everything you’ve just washed over open floor space dripping and dribbling along the way. Honestly, as far as functionality in the kitchen goes, this makes no sense to me. If you are not constrained or forced to have that configuration, I would think twice before putting the sink in the island. IMO, the perfect prep area is that space between your sink and cooktop. The only thing I would change is switching the fridge and the oven.

Thank you, Nidnay! I appreciate your thoughtful advice! Our sink is across from our stove now and you're right, I'm always dripping water, etc on the floor. I'm a sucker for symmetry, though, so this is tough one for me. Plus, I'm having a hard time with the idea of looking at a wall when doing dishes. We did have the Architect move the fridge to where the oven is shown above and we also moved the sink in the messy kitchen closer to the messy kitchen entrance. I wonder if I added a prep sink on that back wall, if that would be a good compromise (providing a perfect place to prep, but keeping the symmetry and not having to look at a wall when doing dishes)?

Remember that the symmetry that you see in a plan isn't how it looks or feels when you're in the kitchen. It's only a bug on the ceiling that sees it like the plan LOL!

This kitchen has two sinks. The one to the right of the stove is not centered on that wall obviously, but it IS centered under the window which to my eye gives the feeling of symmetry. I think there is a way to have a sink not be perfectly symmetrical, but still look great.

Totally get not wanting to face the wall while doing dishes. I would add in a prep sink then if you feel you have the space. But don’t make the same mistake I did by making the sink too small. I have a small square one and the thing drives me NUTS. If I had to do it over I would make it MUCH larger, but I wouldn’t go any smaller than 21” (interior dimensions). Also, after living in my kitchen for two years I came to the understanding that wherever I had a sink, there should be dishwasher adjacent. Prep sinks are for prepping, and I always have lots of utensils, measuring cups, knives etc that I use there and having to carry those items to the dishwasher basically creates the same problem as crossing isles if your sink is in a bad spot. I should have put a single dishwasher drawer right next to my prep sink. I could kick myself for that one! I do have my main full size dishwasher next to our large sink as well as an additional dishwasher drawer, but the drawer is in the wrong spot (not adjacent to my prep sink).....big mistake.