Let's ask Kwsl! LOL

Still, please tell me what's in it for a news channel to foment fear? I don't understand why you think they benefit from that? You said it, what do you think they benefit?

Olychik, I know you know the answer: eyeballs. You've probably heard this saying, "if it bleeds, it leads".

I don’t have a dog in this fight, but I’ll take a stab at Oly’s question: common belief in my area is that news channels forment fear in order to discredit a certain political figure/his handling and or mishandling of the pandemic/fan the flames of discontent by promoting hysteria. All part of the battle between political parties.

Backing away from the discussion now.

sorry vc01, I have no idea what you are saying/talking about.

thanks littlebug for trying, but what benefit does that give to the news agency? Even if they were doing that, what would be the benefit to them?

News agencies/programs/networks are owned by or sponsored by certain individuals/businesses who presumably might favor one political party over another.

My opinions are guided by science, not by talking heads. We do not have television per se in our house and have not since 1998. I haven’t watched network news since then. My opinions are based on facts I have read from reputable sources, e.g. The New York Times, The Washington Post, NPR and on this subject the CDC and Johns Hopkins. I do not watch any of the major channel news. I have seen segments of msnbc, which is heavily slanted in favor of the Democratic party, and Fox News, which is not only slanted towards the Republican Party but seems to actually create news in favor of it. Both are worthless to me as I would rather have facts and make up my own mind.

TV news organizations exist to sell ads. They aren't in business to promote lofty goals, educate the electorate or elevate public discourse. They are in business to make money, period, and they do so by being outrageous and egregious. The more people rail against Fox News the more a certain ilk are moved to watch it. And vice versa; each side’s poor opinion of the other is self-validating. I think all tv news is worthless and people who watch it are not informed but entertained.

Unfortunately, the news sources you‘ve listed-NYT, Washington Post, etc. have fallen prey to bias and want to entertain those who only want to believe one side. Surely, you’ve read about journalists at NYT having to resign because they are ridiculed for wanting to post factual articles, but in a few cases, favored the right side politically. You cannot believe everything you read now. It’s not just TV-it’s everything. The news sources you are reading, have become someone’s opinion. Most of us, interested in knowing the truth, have to watch and read and figure out for ourselves-because you don’t get it by only reading those you’ve listed, that’s for dang sure. You may need to have a more open mind and broaden your sense of the world around you.

To get back to the original question, up in the maritimes where we did a strict lockdown, there are almost no cases or community spread. I would feel comfortable bringing someone to visit here from a higher risk area if and only if they (and all in contact with them) isolated for two weeks. a friend visited from Ontario and he and his partner self isolated together for two weeks. Friends dropped off groceries and so on. It worked well and they got time together. On his return trip he isolated for an additional two weeks at home (he works from home right now due to the pandemic). so it is possible to visit using public health guidelines. But takes a lot of time.

our provinces have formed a bubble as cases are so low so I actually just went on vacation within the maritimes. We registered and showed documentation at each Provincial border. Our context is closer to New Zealand than most other jurisdictions in North America. Our premiers have encouraged staycations within the bubble as our tourism driven economy has been pretty crippled.

although our cases are so low (two active right now in province), we have mandatory masking rules In place for indoors. Everyone is praying school can start without spiking cases. Daycare has been back for a few months and all has gone well.

Olliesmom, at least print sources label opinion pieces as such. And when there are any chinks in the editing chain they are dealt with through an internal ombudsman program and then reported upon in that same newspaper. How many times have you seen Fox News confront one of their own “journalists” for anything from simple mistakes to outright lies? The anti-elitism, anti-intellectualism and anti-education bias of their viewers protects them from owning their mistakes. it also protects them from the consequences of not vetting their sources or information because their viewership is not as discerning. It is much more difficult to read a long article of information, digest it and form an opinion than it is to watch and accept the feverish antics of Fox News “hosts.” Garbage in, garbage out, as the saying goes. It’s like trying to slake your thirst with gray water from the toilet; it‘s wet like regular water but doesn’t have the protection of filtered, potable water and it will make you sick with unseen germs.

Robo, that is encouraging to hear.

Maybe now with this rapid testing that has been approved, things can maybe improve here.

Olliesmom, I can agree with you that the NYT has a strong bias in deciding which stories to run and in which opinions to amplify, however, that newspaper does not publish factual lies about the state of science, medical advice, etc. You will not find charlatans hawking snake oil cures presented as fact in the pages of the Gray Lady. You will likewise not find simple public health directives twisted into stakes in the culture war. Mistakes, though do happen.

For example at the start of the pandemic the NYT's uncritically published our government's line about the inutility of masks. Those of us hanging out here who may have swallowed that had Mtn. mentioning that that made no sense. Later on the paper went ahead and published the new guidelines. I don't know if Fox challenged the original anti-masking advice, that would have been useful, but at least the NYT just reported what our (and other) governments were directing, based on their belief in the need to preserve the limited supply of masks for professionals.

We were deceived by the professionals and that creates an opportunity for doubt to set in, but we do not live in a perfect world and sometimes decision makers weigh benefits and risks wrong, such as this time when the public health establishment lied to us about masks. In the end, no media on the right or left challenged the advice, but at least the outlets like the NYT, NPR and WaPo published the facts and explained why we were misled. Using this incident to discredit trusted sources of news, or the American public health apparatus which has been the envy of the world for over half a century is not helpful, at least not for those of us rooting for Team USA to be able to move forward economically and politically.

Olliesmom, having read your opinions on Hot Topics, it's always a right wing bias so that must say something about your choice of sources. But I'm curious about the sources you've found about coronavirus that disagree with the experts we've all been listening to. Please share.

Toby, and your opinions are always a left wing bias. Right? You know I am.

At least I listen and read both sides. I have written at times, on when I disagree with those on the right. It's not even really about that. We unfortunately have to dig deeper to find out who the sources are most of the time now, they are biased, before believing everything we read.

Toby, this isn't HT. Start this convo over there.

Zalco, I agree with most of what you said above, not all. but thank you for your comment.

What makes you think I don't? I don't watch TV news so it's hard to find conservative news in print, especially when the main source, the WSJ, is behind a paywall.

But you said you found sources about coronavirus that you trust more than the news. You said "So, you have to do a lot of research and be your own advocate to see if it is worth seeing a loved one in person."

I'm asking where you did your research.

Toby, you can go to HT and find the info you are asking me. I'm not discussing it any further here. Do your own research. I've got tons to do today.

Consumer reports has an informative article about getting tested for Covid which some may find helpful. I'm remaining cautious but not paranoid, I wear my mask when at the store and wash my hands often and I'm fortunate that my adult children have also been careful and are in my little bubble. I walk with my neighbors in the morning and we all wear masks and stay apart but that's not eliminating risk. Personally I think it's risky to fly or travel long distances if you're relying on testing and social distancing measures. When I saw my internist recently I asked him what his experience has been and he said he has had several patients without symptoms who had the test done as a prerequisite for medical procedures - and were surprised when the tests came back positive. One of DH's former partners has returned to work after recovering from Covid - and as a medical oncologist he's used to dealing with immuno-compromised individuals and taking every precaution for both their health concerns and his - and he still became ill.

It's a difficult time for everyone and I feel for those people who are suffering because of this.

-https://www.consumerreports.org/coronavirus/guide-to-getting-tested-for-the-coronavirus-covid-19/?EXTKEY=NH08HTHZ2&utm_source=acxiom&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20200816_nsltr_health

sueb, I never had a chance to respond to your OP before it went off on a tangent.

I completely understand how you are feeling right now. I haven't seen my oldest daughter since January when we flew across country to move her in to an off-campus apartment for spring semester of her junior year of college. Prior to that, she was home for a mere three weeks, after leaving in early August for a semester abroad in Spain. So essentially, I've had three weeks with her in the last year! Since we had a lease for her apartment that went through June, when her campus closed in March, we decided it was safer for her to stay there than fly home. The first two months were hell on me - I was so stressed out and worried. What would happen if she got sick and I couldn't be with her? She has been working the entire time (in mask thankfully), but I was so worried since so much was unknown. The plan was that things would hopefully settle down and it would be safe for her to come home in May for the summer as planned. Instead, no summer internships came through, and since she had a job there, it made sense for her to stay. She decided to wait and come home later in the summer. Her lease went month to month, and she and her roommates decided to keep the apartment for their senior year.

I bought her a ticket for a two week trip home at the end of July. However, as it got closer, cases were surging across the South and after leveling off in San Diego where she lives, they had started to climb again. Her return flight would have had her arriving back less than a week before her fall semester began. We realized if she came home, the right thing to do would be to quarantine for two weeks when she got here, but that would basically mean her entire visit would be in quarantine. We were concerned that perhaps if she got exposed while flying, especially on her return, then she would not be able to return to campus the following week for class. I was regretting so much that we hadn't flown her home for a visit at the end of May when numbers were reasonably low in her area and ours and planes at the time were fairly empty. We made a difficult decision for her to stay in San Diego. The earliest we will now see her is Thanksgiving, but she may not be come home until Christmas. And that will all depend on what is happening with COVID. She may not come home at all.

One difference b/w my situation and yours, is that when we last saw our daughter in January, she and we, were fully expecting to see her again May and have her home for the summer, working in DC. Though she is technically an adult, she has not "flown the coop" and started a completely independent life as a working adult. IOW, her stay in San Diego was supposed to be temporary, for the school semester. She is definitely homesick. She had her milestone 21st birthday in May, didn't get to go out and celebrate with her friends. Her roommates picked up carryout for dinner and she had a cake from work (she works at a bakery). She does have a boyfriend, someone she met right before everything shut down, and that has made the distance/homesickness bearable. And she has her two roommates. But I miss her terribly. Had I known it would be this long without seeing her, I would have stayed longer when I helped move her into her apartment. Instead, it was a whirlwind trip - arrived Monday morning and left Wed evening. :(

That is my very long winded answer to your questions, "what have you done? Have you traveled or had them travel to you? Or are you just staying put and waiting until it’s more safe to travel?" I'm right there with you on missing a child! Huge hugs!

Hey Zalco, thanks for the credit. : )

Ugh! I’m so sorry!

Covid sucks.

I have been very conflicted as to how much “going out” is acceptable/comfortable.

I have been a hermit and can literally count on one hand my “outings” since March—-two trips for mask supplies, two dr appointments, one trip for a shingles shot—-whoopee! We did take walks before it got too hot and take drives.

Meanwhile, I have friends and neighbors who have traveled, eat out, get together on patios, have family visit, go shopping, book club, play cards, etc. They are taking the usual precautions they say, and all have been fine thus far, so I question why I’m sitting home.

The hardest part is not seeing the kids/grands. Haven’t seen them since January, including new baby born after Christmas. Thank heaven for Facetime and Zoom or we’d be missing all the first year milestones.

I think the riskiest thing we have done so far is let our oldest son visit us...inside our house. He lives on the opposite side of Boston from us, not very far but not close enough that he just randomly pops in on occasion. (Also, we have a complicated relationship.) Anyway, the first couple of times we saw him, we all just sat outside. Eventually, it was so grossly hot one day when he came over, we had to let him inside our air conditioned house. I know he is being careful, but not as careful as we have been. I wipe down everything he's touched after he leaves, and he does stay several feet away from us at all times, so I feel like we are being as careful as we reasonably can (not all would agree with me, I know).

Otherwise, we have literally not had anyone besides DH, me, and DD inside our house since March. Outside is another story. We have sat in the yard with friends several times. Definitely 6 feet apart, and no more than 4 friends at once. If we didn't do that, I would be much more crazy than I am by now.

I have been to the grocery store, post office (twice), drug store, Target (only 2x since March), doctors' offices with my dad, and that's about it. Ate outside at restaurants a total of 3 times with family only, and with friends twice (eating with friends felt a little too crazy and I'm not likely to repeat it, actually).

DD has been back at her gym (for gymnastics) for about a month. Even with all the precautions, I think this is risky, but her mental health would suffer if she couldn't go, so we have made the decision to take the risk. She's going back to college in less than two weeks, so she's being thrown to the wolves soon anyway.

My daughter and I live alone, but separately. I'm retired and she works from home. Our excursions outside are either solitary or masked. Always masked when going into stores or when another person is in sight. She comes over to my house approx. once a week to visit with her dog. When we say goodbye we side-hug. That's the risk we're both taking.

Boy, I know all about missing the kids and gkids. This is very hard. Thank goodness for zoom etc. and all the other ways we can sort of be with each other. The longing is real.

Hub and I are being very strict about this. You should see our hair! We have our groceries put in the trunk, have seen one of our sons and his family in the backyard but none of our other kids. Better safe than sorry.

Eta that I dread winter when the backyard won't be available to us.

I'm in the risk/benefit thinking camp, too, and because I've had to be. I have adult children at home--one was sent home from college in the spring, finished the semester at home, but needed something productive to do over the summer. He's been working for a vendor at a farmer's market--outdoors and masked (customers, too). He would have quickly slipped into depression without the accountability of a job and schedule during this pandemic. My husband's company is essential, and he's been going to work every day. Yes, there are strict precautions there, too, but still.

None of us are considered high risk, and we have not visited our elderly parents or other family/friends with health conditions. Our socialization with friends has been outside and distanced. We have not dined inside restaurants. Our kids have socialized with friends, mostly outdoors, and I have been impressed with the precautions they take--they seem to recognize masks, distancing, small groups, hand sanitizer etc., as part of their world now. And, like yours, Sue, my child will be back to college next week, and who knows how that will go.

A friend is an airline attendant and has no qualms about flying. She claims the safety measures taken by the airlines and airports are thorough. I have no need to fly anywhere, so I take her word for it.

In the case of your son, could he fly home and take a rapid test upon his arrival, as has been suggested?

Feathers, if "In the case of your son, could he fly home and take a rapid test upon his arrival, as has been suggested?"

What if he comes home, tests, and is found to be positive? Will he have exposed others while traveling?

What if he acquires Covid while traveling, takes his test, and a second test taken a week later is positive? Will he have exposed others while traveling?

If he tests positive at any point, where will he isolate? At his parents home? Sure. What if he is sick enough to require hospitalization? Will his insurance cover it?

I'm adamant. The sooner we all bite this bullet and get it over with, the sooner we all return to normal. We are extending the misery of the entire country by making personal exemptions, over and over and over again.

I think that after all these months of half a$$ measures of making personal decisions that are so obviously not working, it will come to national isolation anyway. The sooner the better.

Unfortunately, national isolation should have happened in March. It didn’t happen again in May/June as things opened up and cases surged, and it won’t happen when schools reopen or later in the fall/winter when we get that second wave. The earliest will be late January if we have an administration change. If we don’t, we’ll have to wait for a safe and proven vaccine.

I know, joanie. It's so depressing

What the helk do people think is going to happen in reopened schools? Why are we prolonging the agony?

For those of you who are not visiting elderly/at risk individuals, have you considered visiting them outside, 6 feet away, and masked? To me, that seems an acceptable risk.

Graywings, it is too hot in our area for outside visits at this time, and not all facilities are allowing them. We do door visits with my dad. (his window is second floor). His facility has a foyer with 2 sets of glass doors. Sheesh, it is a hard thing to deal with, but I don”t think we have to be depressed.

@JoaniePoanie I'm not sure we'll see a national isolation with an administration change. In fact, I'm sure we won't. Whether it's ordered or not, a significant portion of the population just-won't-do-it.

I think “national isolation” would require national martial law regardless of which party is in power. I do not want to see martial law instituted.

I am not sure national isolation is/was necessary. It seems to me that many states did not follow the public health reopening guidelines, with many opening too soon and blatantly ignoring the science. In Massachusetts we had strong leadership and reopened very slowly in stages, dictated by scientific data. We are now in Stage 3 of reopening with a watchful eye on the number of cases, hospitalizations and deaths. As our governor warns us in his daily updates, "the virus doesn't take the summer off". From what I have observed in my suburban town and on Cape Cod, people are compliant with mask wearing and social distancing. Stores are still counting numbers in/out, aisles are marked one way and senior citizen hours are available at most stores.

As much as I am very satisfied with our statewide management of the pandemic in most aspects, I am still terrified for my oldest daughter, who is a public high school teacher in an affluent suburb just outside of Boston. At this point the town is planning on a totally online start, pending evaluation of the ventilation system in the ancient and decrepit building, which is in the middle of a multi-million dollar renovation. If the ventilation can be brought up to Covid code she will be back in the classroom in October. That is a big IF! As a former high school teacher, I understand the challenges of modifying an inquiry-based curriculum to one that can be delivered 100% online. She teaches World History and AP Psychology, so you can imagine the challenges that entails.

Hmm Bonnie, I think your DD might be a teacher in my town!

This reopening thing has been a mess here in FL. Seems like none of the requirements were met. They just went full steam ahead and damn the torpedoes.

And I keep thinking about how in the world schools - and businesses - can be expected to reopen safely, when the added costs for PPE and cleaning supplies, etc. haven't been accounted for or provided.

The majority in the Senate are the ones responsible for denying funding to states. The House voted in a massive relief bill ages ago and it's been held up in the Senate ever since.

Ha Sue! Sent you a message.

Everyone has different risk tolerances. Lots of Americans are more than OK with being subjected to long term experiments. Lots of drugs and chemicals in our environment that haven't been tested for long term, low dose exposure. The consequences are far off, so many will do it, same thing happens with smoking. What I don't like is if you force your risks on me. That's why I avoid cigarette smoke so vigilantly and was happy when it was outlawed in public air space. That's no different than masks and social distancing and upgraded ventilation rules. Otherwise, I'll stick to my own air space, that I can control. We seem so blase about similar issues of low grade, cumulative air, water and soil pollution. We're going to have to pay the piper on that some day too.For example, I grew up swimming in local lakes, but hardly anyone does that now, the water quality has deteriorated. A whole generation missing out on the simple pleasures I enjoyed as a child. We just adapt and do without, and a whole other generation won't know or care what the old folks are rambling on about . . .

I've studied risk tolerance as a result of the above concerns. It's a well known fact that people are hard wired by evolution to face immanent risks, not long term ones. To be able to do otherwise, one has to have an innate sense or lots of experience with calculating risks and understand how the math works. The average person can do this if they are willing to try. We pay the CDC with our tax dollars to serve us and do the hard math for us. I'm not saying they are perfect, but they are not terrible either. They are at least something reasonably informative. We have so many good, relatively unbiased sources of information for making these decisions. Almost every state has a good public health school where folks do this kind of stuff daily. Every county has public health advisors/educators/program directors. Again, not perfect, but geeze, such a wonderful blessing really. Take advantage of what is out there. Public health departments, research institutes, free libraries, non-profit health advocacy groups . . .

I ran into a woman on a neighborhood walk recently. She teaches English at an exclusive private high school in the Houston area. Tuition is above $25,000/year but apparently there is not enough money in the budget for the necessary custodial care now that this school is fully opened.. Get this: each teacher must completely disinfect every desk and chair in her classroom between each class period. Are you kidding me? Is there no end to what we will demand from teachers in this crisis? Somehow, I doubt that's what this woman had in mind as she completed her PhD.

Interesting. The pedagogy I learned emphasized that your goal as a teacher was to make your students self-sufficient in both learning and discipline. I would train my students to disinfect their own spaces prior to leaving . . .

ipink, that was my first thought. A good and effective teacher would have each student clean their own space.

FYI, licensing regulations here prohibit exposing children to cleaning products or anything else that has 'keep out of reach of children' on its label. Such materials are to be kept locked up & out of reach when children are in the attendance.

In HS, there is no reason they can't clean. At the HS 2 of my kids went to, the MS and HS do all of the cleaning, including ordering supplies and managing teams. They all have jobs, and have since the school's founding. And tuition is double what you quote!

In re the point above: https://www.consumerreports.org/cleaning/when-using-household-disinfectants-parents-should-be-cautious/

My DGS’ school, which is a well-thought of boys’ school, requires that the older boys (not PK like DGS) disinfect their own desks as they leave the classroom. The school is providing disinfecting wipes for each desk.

Oh geez, I forgot that one. At the last place I worked, the high school summer workers/staff couldn't clean the bathrooms due to health and safety regulations. Wonder if many kids know that . . . "Geez Mom, I'd like to clean the bathroom but it's against state health regulations . . . "

Note, the common household cleaners of bleach and ammonia are also disinfectants but both come with safety warnings and are actually quite dangerous. But so are some of the chemicals and apparatus used in HS science classes, so I dunno . . . it's complicated . . .

Edited to add that it is not against state health regulations, it's against state occupational safety regulations. I'm not sure all the ins and outs and the specific ages. I knew at one time and there is a guideline sheet for employers on it, but I haven't perused it for a while.

I pinkmountain, just for your FYI most HS and all MS schools in NYC use virtual (computer labs) for several years now. No chemicals, lab assistance are far and few between. There are scarcely any teachers left who even know how to do real labs and the DOE is worried about liability. When these students enter college science classes, they are flummoxed by labs that require real chemicals and actual experiments and struggle without the appropriate background knowledge. This goes for physics also. Though a few elite HS's offer "real" science classes and AP classes.

"Geez Mom, I'd like to clean the bathroom but it's against state health regulations . . . "

Shhh!

I wondered why they didn’t ask the kids to clean their own desks too, esp given their age. But I didn’t think to ask her when we were conversing at the park.

How tragic. Especially since reading and being able to follow safety instructions is a pretty valuable skill for the modern world. Lots of real world applications, just in the home and garden even . . . No wonder everyone is freaking out at these relatively minor safety techniques for the pandemic. I say "minor" because for someone who has taught aseptic technique in microbiology lab, this is old hat . . .