Uh oh... LOL

Well, we check okay on that. Neither of us are fat.

Yes, visceral or 'belly' fat is thought to be worse for your health in general than fat around the hips. More overweight men have the former, and women the latter, although of course that's not true of everyone.

Abdominal obesity is probably the most dangerous of all, and apple body shape is considered at the highest risk for health issues compared to the other body types. Larger waists can mean higher risk of heart disease. It can also mean higher risk of Type 2 diabetes. If you are apple-shaped but not overweight –– meaning your body mass index (BMI) is under 25 — you are still at higher risk for cardiovascular disease, cancer and diabetes than people with smaller waists.
https://www.pennmedicine.org/updates/blogs/health-and-wellness/2019/september/body-shape

The shamefully high level of obese and overweight people contributes to how many covid cases we have. I sure hope that one of the changes stemming from the pandemic is more people choosing to lose the excess weight and exercise more.

I found this very interesting, go down to the map "Share of Adults that are Obese" and move the slider back to see how rapidly obesity has spread in the US.

https://ourworldindata.org/obesity

And on the first chart in Raye Smith's link it shows risks factors that cause early death. Obesity is ranked #5 but #1 is high blood pressure and #3 is high blood sugar both of which obese people usually suffer from - so I wonder which will actually kill the first.

Contributes to DEATHS, maybe. Anyone can get COVID.

I too, am greatly concerned about the increasing rate of obesity. Polite people in polite conversation don't usually tell an obese person they must lose weight to improve their health. Polite people don't suggest to obese people they could drop their costly medications with their negative side affects if they would eat less and move more.

I have obese family members and friends who complain about their health, have huge problems related to their obesity but won't lose weight. I'm sad for them, as I care about them but also feel helpless as I watch the train wreck.

Obesity gallops in my family. I myself lost my weight and am no longer obese. My doctor seems to think mine was not due to the usual causes but due to my migraines and migraine related hypoglycemia. I don't know about that; all I know it is very difficult for me to keep my weight off and I am up for the challenge so far. I have to watch what I eat and when I eat it and I have to exercise more than anyone else I know.

Covid is challenging me once again and I have had to up my exercise game! So far it is an additional hour walk a day. That brings my total walking hours up to 3.5 hours a day. Half early in the morning with the dogs a mid day walk and the rest with the dogs in the early evening. I do all of my shopping by walking now with a cart. And masks and gloves and hand sanitizer. Whoa; things are really complicated.

Who knows how much more I will have to do as covid-19 goes into its second phase. I noticed almost immediately that I began to lose muscle mass even though my weight stays the same. I am doing way more sit-ups and push-ups than I like to.

DD and DH are normal weight and have no problems keeping it off. Show-offs!

Two of my sisters and my son each lost and have kept off 30 lbs. The doctors are saying that that's just as good as if they lost all the weight. I'm not sure I understand the reasoning but looked it up and science seems to agree with them.

All three of them are still in the obesity category without any attendant problems like diabetes or heart disease related to the obesity. One of my sisters has heart problems but that began many years ago before any obesity occurred.

My son has many many conditions so that he has managed to keep 30 pounds off it's a miracle and a half. A big part of it is due to the fact that he is now able to walk the dogs with me at least half the week. He was not able to walk at all up until a couple of years ago for any distance. His balance has never been good but for some reason has improved. He's in his late 30s. He calls himself a very late late bloomer.

Here in Canada it seems that doctors are supposed to focus not on weight loss per se but on why the weight is gained perhaps. And that's what our doctors do for my family at least.

Here is the article that speaks of obesity and a shift in the medical world about the treatment needed.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/health/cutting-calories-no-more-new-guidelines-call-for-fundamental-shift-in-obesity-treatment-1.5049830

The shamefully high level of obese and overweight people contributes to how many covid cases we have.

The NYT article is pointing out that obesity in men contributes to male death rates in Covid. I have not seen anywhere that obesity contributes to the number of cases.

Those with obesity and other health risks commonly associated with obesity are more likely to be symptomatic with this virus to seek out testing. They are also more likely to be hospitalized and as discussed about have a higher mortality rate.

This string of nonsense from someone who purports to be a "medical professional". I can only imagine what paltry qualifications she's inflating.

"Polite people in polite conversation don't usually tell an obese person they must lose weight to improve their health"

Obese people know they are obese. They know it is unhealthy to be obese. It's the same as telling a smoker that smoking is bad for their health. We all know it. But addictions are hard to break.

From the CDC:

Having obesity, defined as a body mass index (BMI) of 30 or above, increases your risk of severe illness from COVID-19.

Which isn't news because, for months, obesity has been reported as one of the risk factors for developing serious illness & dying from Covid.

Yes, agreed, that came out a while ago. Did it say anything about obese people being the ones that account for the NUMBER of cases? Or having a lower likelihood percentage-wise of being asymptomatic?

Yes, obesity is a risk factor for many different diseases. It can also increase the severity of illnesses that might not have been as severe if that person was a normal weight.

But it is nothing to be "shameful" about. Obesity is a condition, not a character flaw for heavens sake.

That being said, there is certainly a double standard i think. Anorexia and Bulimia are treated as mental illnesses and no one questions the urgency of trying to help those people who suffer from them. No one chides people for being "skinny shamers" for telling those people that they need to get help because their relationship with food is harming them and could kill them. But heaven forbid you mention to someone that their excessive weight is not healthy. If you do, you're a "fat shamer", "fatphobic" a bully, and whatever else the delusional frauds behind the "health at every size" movement can come up with. A large person can tell a skinny person that they need to eat a cheeseburger and no one calls the big person out on it. But a slimmer person better NOT tell a bigger one ANYTHING about what they should or should not be eating,or they will be cast out as a bully. Strange society we live in today.

As far as being polite, I am of the belief that one should generally mind ones own business as far as a strangers weight. But if there is someone you really love and care about who suffers from obesity, it is important to share your concerns. Not to nag, not to badger, not to make them feel ashamed of something that is (once again) NOT shameful. But let them know that you are worried and want them to be around as long as possible, with the best quality of life that this world has to offer. I would tell them this once, then leave it alone for them to do with (or not) as they choose. Love and concern always go down better than scorn and scolding.

I am overweight, though not in the obese category. I do not get offended when anyone says anything about my weight. It is their opinion, and one cannot get mad at someones opinion can one? It is what it is. But i know other people do.

Amy - I was berated by an doctor for being obese - at the time my BMI was 20, overweight yes, obese absolutely not. I've lost most of the excess weight I was carrying and still have a ways to go so I know that it's not easy.

Raye, 20?!?!?! I thought I healthy BMI was between 18-25! Overweight 25-29. Obese 30+. I guess I need to brush up on that. Although I hear recent research suggests that bmi is not as important as waist size......

I have talked to several doctors and nurses who fear even telling patients that they need to lose weight. Apparently they get pretty nasty reactions to doing so.....

When I planned to lose some weight, my doctor recommended an appropriate weight goal. This goal, which I have now reached, puts my BMI in the overweight category. My doctor mentioned that she believes it is more beneficial for people in my age range (70+) to avoid becoming too thin, which I would be if I had a "normal" BMI.

My old doctor, he retired last year, told me the same as stacey's. He considered it important for older patients to have a little excess than be at a normal weight because when people become ill without enough fat reserves the body will start destroying itself if not enough nourishment is taken in. Many people do not feel like eating or may not be able to eat.

Having had a friend in college whose body did this after weight loss surgery I know it happens.

Amy - BMI is a poor way to measure weight. It doesn't take many factors into account such a muscle mass. Muscle is heavy so athletes have higher BMIs at normal weight. I'm big boned and bones aren't heavy so my BMI needs to be low for normal height. Waist size needs to be adjusted for height, a 5' woman should have a much smaller waist than a 6' woman. I'm also at the end of the baby boomers so I don't need to be carrying any extra weight.

I would have been fine with the Dr telling me that I was overweight and it would help to lose the excess. But he was berating me for being obese and telling me that any health problems that I had were because of weight. I later found out that he was treating all his female patients this way.

I have been fighting to stay at or above 100 lbs. as I fight multiple myeloma. Yet, whatever I gain goes directly to my *middle* -- and that had already been augmented since I lost two inches of height due to spinal compression.

I'm now 5' 4". Most of my life I have been 5' 6" and 120 lbs, without a fat roll. Now I not only have a fat roll, but am also 'underweight'.

(This discussion reminds me of a neighbor whose DH lost excess weight when she started to refer to his 'love handles'.)

chisue- I do worry about you. I can't begin to imagine how small you are.

I'm overweight at the moment, but prior to this I spent a good 20 years at 5'4" and 120 lbs and I KNOW I was tiny. Had I weighed any less, it wouldn't have been healthy.

Forget about fat rolls, focus on those fat stores!! Your body depends on them when you can't get enough nutrients.

Texas - I had a family member that was 5'4" and 105 lbs was her perfect weight.

Yes, cancer patients need fat stores if they choose to have treatment.

Getting back to the Corona thing, my state isn't breaking down their posted numbers into anything useful. Are other states posting symptomatic vs. non-symptomatic cases and are they reporting current vs recovered cases?

In the small town where I grew up, all of the fat ladies went to Dr. Swan. He was a GP who was popular because he never told anyone to lose weight. I used to think this was a violation of the hippocratic oath. But now I realize that it was probably a good thing, because it got people to see him who might otherwise have avoided going to a doctor.

PA does report % of recovered cases. The statistics for yesterday are:

Total Cases: 124,460

Negatives: 1,332,403

Recovered: 79%

I'm not sure how you'd track symptomatic vs. non, as the latter could turn into the former. Without a robust tracing system, there's a lot of information we're missing out on.

The only way you could get meaningful numbers on non-symptomatic cases is if you tested the entire population on one given day. Which would be impossible. And then, probably meaningless because you could not reliably predict how many non-symptomatic cases might evolve into more serious illness.

My state, WI, posts numbers on new cases, recovered cases, hospitalized patients, ICU patients, # of patients on mechanical ventilation. Further breakdowns by age groups. Probably more breakdowns by sex, etc.??, but I haven't dug that deep into the data.

Bookwoman - a number of companies are testing all of their employees. A friend's husband works at one and out of 900 tests two showed that they had been infected but never displayed symptoms. There are two tests, an antigen test that is positive when the patient is infected or still has viral remains, the other is an antibody test that is positive when the patient has had a prior infection. Many states, including mine are lumping both of those test results together. So a person that has had a positive antigen test and then a positive antibody test is counted twice or more.

Texas_Gem -- You truly are a *gem*! I'm doing better since being prescribed Prilosec by my ongologist. I'd complained about my stomach from the day I started treatment for or almost as long as my MM. After my July 4th visit to the ER for possible heart attack, she admitted that Prilosec was recommended for anyone who has to take oral Dex (one component of the MM therapy). Duh. Anyway, I'm able to eat more now -- the reason I know that any gains go to my middle. I'm 102 lbs. this morning. Not as *terrible* when you're 79. My follow-up to the cardiologist last Friday was exactly what I predicted. There's *nothing* wrong with my heart. (Can't wait to see my hospital bill for ER, two days in-patient, angiogram, etc.! No thrill in being such a *profitable* patient.)

About COVID in my area: Gov. Pritzker has divided Illinois into regions. My county and the one to the west are Region 9. We've had 13,151 positive cases and 432 deaths (136 outside of nursing homes). Recovery rate is 95.5% (That's individuals testing positive at least 42 days ago who are still living). The R for the region has climbed to 5.9%; an R of 8% will trigger a shutdown of bars, indoor dining, etc. Some downstate regions are closer to that than we are, but most regions are doing fine. I think the regional approach makes sense where population is so unevenly distributed.

Also from the county COVID website:

Of people testing positive, 27% report hair loss.

Obese COVID patients are 6 times more likely to require hospitalization; 5 times more likely to require ICU; 12 times more likely to die.

What my state, Missouri, is reporting as seen on the various charts is not what the governor or our mayor are stating. Both are saying that my area has a large upswing in cases and deaths. The reports as an average are showing mid 300s for positives and less than 8 for the entire state. Neither are a large upswing since those are the the numbers since May. Health Department mentioned 5 dead from my county this past week and 19 for the entire 5 county city.

" So a person that has had a positive antigen test and then a positive antibody test is counted twice or more."

Are you saying that the public information about the pandemic is wrong and everything is fine? Whether the counting is as you've said or not, there's probably no other way to do it other than by counting gross numbers. Most people can understand that.

Are people counted as dead when they're still alive? If you like the death numbers better, you can focus on those.

I really don't understand your attitude of denial and carping about what's going on. It's not a conspiracy, it's a health crisis.

So a person that has had a positive antigen test and then a positive antibody test is counted twice or more.

Raye, I'm sure that the counts are not 100% accurate. That doesn't make what is happening any less serious, even if you reduce the numbers by half, it is still an unacceptable amount of death.

One of the positive attributes of my old age is the ability to stop, take a look around, and admit I was wrong about something. It used to be that I would dig my heels in and continue to argue a position that either was or had grown to be untenable.

None of us would think any the less of you if you were to join those who see Covid as a scary crisis.

There was an old thread right here on the KT, where people were talking about their vacation plans and how some said they were certainly not going to change them because of Covid. Subsequently it was discovered that the disease can be transmitted by those who have few or no symptoms, and death counts started to rise.

Some people in the original thread had already decided to change their plans. Some changed their perspective only after further evidence was publicized months later.

My point is that we want you alive, with us. And we don't want you participating in behaviors that might harm us. No one will laugh at you or give you a hard time if you change your perspective based on mounting evidence.