Ssahw, sorry for this hijack, and back to your deck in a moment. *** Designshare, I have been saying nothing in response to several of your posts, but this time you posted twice and you did not listen to what the OP said. The OP clearly rejected your input, yet you made yet another bizarre and irrelevant picture. I would suggest you try to improve your work to encompass both reality and the question that the OP is asking, so it doesn't require anyone to be advised to ignore it. And by the way, if you see anyone giving advice that you think is a waste of time or otherwise bad, you are free to say so here. Just be sure to give reasons why you think it is bad. Given that freedom that you have, I would suggest that you try learning what "dictatorship" means before you use that word again. It continues to beggar my understanding that you are from China, which is a dictatorship where corruption and oppression abound, and yet you cannot tell the difference between a dictatorship and simple peer response. Far from seeking to oppress your contribution, I have frequently offered you suggestions on how to improve it. Your contributions in words are sometimes very good, and if you could simply stop with the pictures, you would be much more welcome by me. In particular, I have suggested that you not be the first to post to any thread, because it is very off-putting to a new OP when a "cartoon" (as your drawings were referred to by someone else) is the first response. That, of course, is only my opinion. I don't seek to speak on anyone else's behalf, and everyone else is free to tell you, and the rest of the world by posting it in a thread, if they feel differently about your pictures. *** So, back to the deck. I agree a deck would be easier to build, but maybe not so good for a firepit. I wonder though whether the firepit and pool seasons do not somewhat overlap. Perhaps it would be better to consider the two functions separately. Alternatively, based on the measurements you've given, that's some slope. Could you move the patio further from the deck to flatter ground? And/or extend the deck at its present level until you reach flat ground? Fill below the deck to bring the ground level up?? The concurrent thread I've linked below may give you, in monetary terms, some idea of the magnitude of putting the patio right where you want it. KarinL Here is a link that might be useful: concurrent thread

Oh my. What is a passionate rose lover like you doing in that glacial hell hole? Reading about your endeavors has exhausted me and I haven't even lifted a shovel. I admire your grit and determination, but would love to see you rewarded with thousands of blooms on your rose bushes for all your hard work. I bet they could use engineers in zones 7 to 10!

For me, it was a matter of physically measuring our various things - I didn't measure every single thing (most utensils, etc. weren't measured), but I measured a lot. And I used a list that had approximate dimensions of important things then used an elevation style drawing so that I could label exactly what was intended to go where. In doing that, I found that I had a few things in my initial layout plan a bit wrong. I revisited those things and was able to come up with just about everything that I wanted where I wanted. As someone earlier mentioned, keep in mind that you will possibly find that you will have some need for a few things in more than one place for ease of use. For example, I have a measuring cup and measuring spoons in a drawer next to the cooktop. I also have the same in my island. I have pot holders in a drawer next to my cooktop, and more over in a drawer by the oven. My aluminum foil and parchment are over in a drawer by the oven - near the are where my cookie sheets and casserole dishes are. My plastic wrap and baggies are near where the fridge is. These are the places where I will most use them. Initially, when I started planning, I was putting all those items together. Because...wait for it...that's they way I've always had them...and the way that my parents and grandparents always had them. Luckily, someone from GW asked WHY I was going to do it that way! And I realized that she was right...that way didn't make sense at all. So, when you are planning, plan for the IDEAL locations. Recognize that there may be more than one ideal location for certain items, so you may wind up having them in more than one place. My goal in putting together my kitchen right now is that someone with a moderate knowledge of how a kitchen should work would be able to step into my kitchen and find just about any of the tools that he/she would need to prepare a meal without my intervention. I feel pretty certain that most GWers could feel "at home" even if it isn't exactly how they might have done things. I would bet that if I showed my kitchen and gave an item and it's general use/frequency of use, most GWers could come pretty darn close to nailing the location. Actually, that might be a fun thread..."Guess what is behind drawer number 1?"

I have a wild kingdom going..and I would think Crows would make fast work of Mantids. I used to see Jays and Mockingbirds..but once cats started in this neighborhood,rare to see them. Possums would make a snack of them...they eat anything. Even the number of fence lizards has gone down..when they had showed up for a few years out of nowhere. Same for Garter Snakes come to think of it. Could be the wet weather 2 years in a row spread everybody out?