Annegriet, many of us do wear masks, do not go out in public where there are groups. Many of us have helped neighbors and friends. We've contributed $ so others have masks.

I have online friends, some teachers, and we spend all kinds of time thinking of ways to help and teach. And think of the time and sacrifice many medical professionals are giving, some have given their very lives to help others.

I think those who are quiet and helpful are there, they are just not as visible as those who are loud and unhelpful.

The problem is that small thinkers in political office have tried to make a health problem into a political issue.

Just as an aside, I think the superlatives ascribed to the so-called Greatest Generation are nostalgic but, on the whole, inaccurate. Consider this:

-A large majority of those who served in the military during WW 2 were drafted, not volunteers

-Even those stats are skewed because many of the "volunteers" volunteered to avoid the draft, to have a choice of service rather than have it assigned at the whim of being in the draft.

-The majority of men in the draft pool age were not drafted. Not all were working at "jobs vital for the war effort". Though many tried hard to get into such slots to avoid being in the military.

The same was done by young men during the Vietnam War who joined the Peace Corps or spent extra years in graduate school or went to medical, dental, etc., schools to avoid being drafted while hoping the draft would end before their deferrals did. Most who did so successfully avoided military service.

I can understand your anger Annegriet and at the same time Lucille has a very valid perspective too. The other day I had to run into a local Farmer’s Market and was stunned to see several couples in their 50-60’s without a mask and/or a care for anyone around them. I was disappointed and even angered. Once such couple was checking out in front of me. When it was my turn, I made a comment to the cashier (who was in her early 20’s) about it and she made it very clear that she felt they were selfish too!

That said, when I compared the number of people who were wearing a mask as opposed to those who weren’t, those without masks were greatly out numbered. There was also a lot of people with masks shaking their heads at them too.

People knew masks would save lives during the Spanish Flu. So my question is, when did people unlearn this? When did science become something at which to scoff?

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/coronavirus-spanish-flu-philadelphia-pennsylvania.html

Unfortunately, the general population has always been this selfish. It is just more visible now.

Can you imagine telling Americans now that they had to have a Victory Garden or salvage metal or ration their gas?

Lol, nope.

Though I do live in a bottle return state, so that's a bit of the salvage metal thing. If you want your pennies you paid back when you bought it, you have to return it. Arid areas of the U.S. that have water restrictions are telling folks to ration their water- different than gas, but still a rationing.

The VG thing is interesting- if we had been told to start growing a garden, and even had government assistance to do it, like a SNAP program for plants... folks would likely rebel, not like it, etc. But there is a voluntary movement of a lot of new gardeners this year trying out their VG's.

Japan has less than 1% mortality rate because everyone wears a mask and is expected to do so.

"So my question is, when did people unlearn this? "

When they started watching pandemic coverage in White House press conferences and Fox News dating back to January and continuing through today.+

Remember when it was not a problem, then a hoax, then a stunt by the progressives to make the Republicans look bad? Funny thing is, while all of those were lies, the Republicans have made themselves look bad to the country and to the world with no help from anyone at all.

People knew masks would save lives during the Spanish Flu. So my question is, when did people unlearn this? When did science become something at which to scoff?

We didn't "unlearn" about wearing masks, it's never been a part of our lives. This is new for everyone.

As to not paying attention to the science, many of the people I talk to have lost confidence because the "experts" have changed the prognosis, the recommendations back and forth so many times since this all began.

In my opinion only -- being patriotic is a way of life learned at home. To me, it isn't just about supporting the country, but includes caring for your neighbors and being grateful for their care in return.

We don't have the closeness of years gone past, with more and more families breaking apart and living in more congregated areas instead of communities that relied on each other.

A health problem must be a political issue or Health Departments would not be there. Desertsteph where and when do you think the requirement for sanitation came from.

"As to not paying attention to the science, many of the people I talk to have lost confidence because the "experts" have changed the prognosis, the recommendations back and forth so many times since this all began."

As this is a brand new, never-seen-before virus with some incredibly pernicious features, it is not at all surprising that the 'experts' are not yet confirmed on all of its details....they are learning as they go. To expect them to have some psychic, sixth sense knowledge about how to best to deal with it before the fact is silly and unrealistic. And there was also not just a little governmental and political pressure on them to provide the "facts" fast. So they gave 'em what they had at the time but further research is always going to increase and amend and even change what was first known and publicized.

The fact that there is now a drug that effectively treats some of the worst symptoms of those with the active disease and two different possible vaccines going into their third testing trials - and all this happening in just a few short months - says a great deal about just how expert these dedicated people really are.

Human nature has a history of selfish behaviors. Selfishness didn't start in January and it didn't start in the White House during any administration.

I believe we are born selfish and nurturing plays a big role in changing us. I also believe we overcome bias and racism the same way.

Desertsteph where and when do you think the requirement for sanitation came from.

the sanitation dept is making it political?

"As to not paying attention to the science, many of the people I talk
to have lost confidence because the "experts" have changed the
prognosis, the recommendations back and forth so many times since this
all began."

I think this is just a sad excuse, and it makes no sense anyway.

Mask-wearing, for example. At first they said we didn't need to wear one but now every health expert says we should. Yesterday Dr. Fauci said that the early recommendation was because they were afraid that healthcare workers would run out of masks. Our National Stockpile was depleted in early April. It had nothing to do with effectiveness. So now with the new recommendation, you'd think they'd wear one, but because they simply don't want to, they use the excuse that they don't trust the experts. It's laughable how many think they know more about this virus than the experts.

When they're in the ICU with COVID invading their lungs, I bet they'll trust the experts.

desert, sanitation departments were set up by governments so yes they are political. Beyond that they are paid for by taxes.

I Will Survive by Gloria Gaynor, 9 to 5 by Dolly, Sisters are Doin' it for Themselves - the Eurythmics/Annie Lennox.

When did we become selfish? I like Michael's answer so much, I'm going to quote it here for those who don't/can't scroll up easily:

"Human nature has a history of selfish behaviors. Selfishness didn't start in January and it didn't start in the White House during any administration.

I believe we are born selfish and nurturing plays a big role in changing us. I also believe we overcome bias and racism the same way."

I'd add, humans also have a history of altruistic behaviors. We gather in communities and act in ways to preserve those communities. Too often, Community A comes to view Community B as an enemy ... but in the long arc of history, we've managed to expand our view of 'what is my community', 'who is my neighbor' to include a wider and wider range of people. Culturally, racially, geographically, our world is interconnected and I think most of us like that. We value the product of other cultures and other communities (food? music? trade goods?), more now than at any time in human history. Perfect yet? no, of course not, but a bit better with each generation.

Personally, I believe that most/many people are not selfish when it comes down to the nitty-gritty. They will respond to many situations in a good and helpful way as best they are able. There are many examples of folk helping others, even at personal physical risk -- those who run to help someone stuck in a burning car, for instance.

That said, I do really think that much of the perceived "selfishness" displayed by our present society comes from the "me-me-me" mindset. Gotta have whatever I want right now. Don't care if you can't have what you want, as long as I get mine. The readily-available aspect of buy-buy-buy, especially as pertains to online shopping and use of credit cards. No real thoughts of others, except perhaps in one's own inner circle. AND providing one's offspring with over-abundance of things and discretionary cash-flow, beyond what is sensible (IMO), establishing expectations in them that cannot be sustained by them in the long run. (I noticed many decades ago that young adults were certain that they would start out their adult lives at the level their parents had achieved after the parents worked many years to attain that level of income. Unreasonable expectations, and a likely road to unhappiness for the young.)

I have 5 songs for my playlist! Just added them to Alexa!

I hope one of those songs is "The Man", by Taylor Swift.

feminist playlist!

OK for a playlist, but there is nothing quite like a car full of women belting out 'Hit the Road Jack' at the top of their voices.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OH01QSNCbNA

The Man

Taylor Swift--The Man--good one. I also like her song Shake It Off. Hit the Road Jack!!!! Classic.

When people lose regular contact with their community, they cease to feel part of it. It can take a crisis, a failure of 'normal', to reveal that people need one another. The elevator breaks in a high rise. There's a garbage or transportation strike. A disaster like Twin Towers happens.

You'd hope that a disaster like Covid would *eventually* pull people together.

That is definitely not what Trump wants; he *needs* a division of the nation because attack, attack is all hrae has to offer, and for that...you need 'an enemy'. It's all out of Hitler's playbook. It will all end in the same disaster. After THAT, maybe we can really be a great, UNITED nation again. Not by 'going back'!

People are and always have been selfish. Some more than others, but everyone is selfish.