See, the people who install motion detecting sprayers and the like are people who have reached the end of their rope, in many cases. Maybe it's to keep wildlife out of the lawn, or maybe it is to deter dogs or cats or kids, but once you get to the point where you're spending your money, time and energy to protect your property from what you consider to be harm in a retaliatory manner, you've pretty much exhausted "being nice" and you just want to do whatever it takes to get the nuisance to stop.

Most of us who are dealing with a property dispute or other issue do fantasize about what we could do to turn the tables on the offending party. It's not productive and it certainly isn't pretty, but by god it helps you blow off steam just talking about it to someone who understands.

That said, you simply do not take these matters into your own hands in such a way that harms others. You just don't. Tempting though it may be, when you lose your own dignity in the process, you've only brought the world down a little more. And that's just not right. I would rather live with the unjust and even the illegal committed against my property than lose my self respect.

I am an animal lover and we have 2 dogs and 2 indoor only cats. We live a pretty rural area, it's woodsy. One of my neighbors has 2 lovely cats that he lets go outside. One of his cats loves to sit in our wooded side yard where my dogs can see it and go cuckoo but where my dogs cannot do anything, except bark, and bark some more. The cats knows the dogs cant get to it, so I have to go outside and either call the dogs in or shoo the cat out of the woods so I can get some peace.

At first my husband said leave it alone its a lovely cat, but then when I explained to him that the lovely cat was not only harassing the dogs but also staking out our array of bird feeders like the 8 year old at the chocolate buffet he agreed shooing was called for. Shooing will become a water pistol if necessary.

I suggested a motion activated high-frequency alarm. I was looking at them for my situation, but it wont work because we have too much property that the cat could come and go through, but for Ida's situation it might work. I imagined a sign where the grass meets the sidewalk, than a few feet in, place the triggered alarm. If someone is letting the dog that far into your lawn that is, in my opinion, wrong. The dog will hear the alarm and retreat. And will probably over time learn I don't like this lawn.

Auto sprinklers are not a cannon of water shot from a firehose into the street. If they are set properly all they do is water the lawn for a few seconds. If the spray accidentally hits the curb or sidewalk it's probably the equivalent of a tablespoon of water hitting your lower legs.

Our water is expensive and scarce, nobody is watering the curb or sidewalk on purpose.

I dunno. I lived in a row house neighborhood with tiny patches of front lawn and a strip between the road and sidewalk. Forget growing anything along the sidewalk. I put gravel on the strip, and mulch along the edge of the lawn. That was sacrificed to the pee. I had flowers and shrubs growing along the house, quite a ways away. Some of my neighbors had yards bordered by high raised beds so the dogs couldn't get to the soil. Dog pee kills plants, plain and simple. Forget growing anything in the pee zone. Perhaps some pots on top of the mulch, so that they can pee around the pots but not in them. i devoted my efforts to against the house and backyard, the dog walk zone was sacrificial. If they don't pee on your lawn, they will pee on your neighbors lawn ad nauseum.

Localeater, outdoor cats are the most murderous of animals I believe by stat. Our local cat adoption agency prohibits allowing it's adopted families from letting cats outdoors, mostly because of the cats' risk of injury but they also mentioned the environmental issues.

We live on a large lot on a busy road. A few years ago the township had walking paths installed. My initial complaint was that dogs would be using our yard as their potty zone, but the jerk from the city shot that down saying, “other streets haven’t experienced that, blah blah”, well it was biggest piece of BS because guess what? We often find piles and spots lining the walk on our grass along the entire property, and I’ve seen dogs marking our trees. It’s annoying and rude and I think putting a sign is a good idea. I might try that myself.

Pink - I learned that the strip between the sidewalk and the road is called the "He77 Strip" I always assumed it was because it was heck to keep anything alive there.

The brown spots can also be grubs. I had them years ago. Milky Spore fixed that quickly.

Sorry to veer OT: Can anyone recommend a squirt/water gun with a good range (20 ft.)? My neighbors have a sweet calico cat that loves to hang out in my yard. I don't really care about that, even when she poops now and then. But last year we caught her with a fledgling bluebird from my birdbox. We rescued the bird, but it didn't survive, and it about broke my heart. I love cats and I know they hunt because that's what they're wired to do, but I still don't like it. I would never want to hurt her, only give her a shot of water to make her leave. I don't have a hose setup handy where I need it. I'm getting tired of running out of my house waving my arms and making banshee noises. I know there are lots of toy water guns. I don't need something that looks cool, in fact, I'd rather it look dull and boring. Any ideas?

Loving thy neighbor also includes not intruding on them if unwanted. It goes both ways. I do love my neighbors; I don't love their dogs on my property or in public spaces.

Bunny - every summer my kids have a massive squirt gun battle and they swear by Super Soakers - they're larger than the simple little plastic toys squirt guns that we had as kids but some can shoot up to 25-30 feet

I am so old. I’ve always lived in neighborhoods where residents didn’t freak out each time a neighbors’ pet or child strayed into our yard. Thankfully, I still do.

We have a neighbor’s lab that has made a path. His house to our house to the neighbor on the other side. He patiently sits in front of our front door, if no one sees him within a few minutes, we get one bark. I have treats ready to hand him, as does the next neighbor. When we aren’t there, he just moves on. Everyone knows and loves this pup. He surely pees, but rain will come and wash it away.

Does anyone else still live in a neighborhood where kids play in the street and Don’t Immediately post on lost and found if an unleashed pet runs through the yard?

Maddie, my neighborhood has oodles of kids playing in the street, however it’s illegal to let a dog run loose. I know every dog on my street by name, which I can’t say about the kids. If a dog were loose I’d take him home, except the one pit bull and then I’d call the owner. I really do love dogs and have had several. I just don’t want pee and brown spots on my lawn. They are welcome to pee all over the strip between the sidewalk and street. It’s plenty big and easy enough for dog walkers to direct them there.

I had an awful problem with cats. I have an overhang in front of my house and during rainy or snowy weather the ground under it stays dry and clear. Cats love to poop there. I got a motion sprinkler and that stopped them. It doesn’t reach the sidewalk. The kids in the neighborhood love to play in it in the summer and I think they are funny. I had to put plastic mesh under mulch to discourage the cats.

We do, maddielee, our road is about a mile long, with 6 year round houses and a couple of seasonal summer camps, 5 of the 6 of us have dogs, and none are leashed. None of us have little kids anymore, but when we did, they, and the dogs, ranged freely around, through the (unfenced) yards, as do all of us, we have a one lane dirt road, but everyone walks through the yards if they are dropping by to visit or borrow something. Not HOA turf, at all.

Dedtired, at my former house I had a motion activated 'sprinkler' for deer that loved my roses. (I still have it, but there are so many more deer in my newer neighborhood up the hill now that I've given up on all but a couple of roses).

It caught me more than once when I would forget that it was on and walk into its path. It was a pretty forceful spray of water. If too close, it could mean changing clothes or being chilly.

My paper boy thought it was delightful (it was in a side yard and he had to go out of his way to be entertained). The PUD meter reader apparently disagreed. I wasn't home the day "I" sprayed the meter reader, but the neighbors described a scream, and some cursing following....

I didn't ever hear anything from the utility, so possibly it had become funny by the time she got back to the office.

Morz, I got myself more than a few times. Soaked to the skin! It was right outside the front door so I turned it off first thing in the morning. The mailman would not have been happy to run into that.

I came *this* close to buying a Nerf Super Soaker, until I watched a YouTube of two cute Canadian teens doing reviews. All that pumping! It might be overkill for one calico cat. I did find her under my tree today and hit her with the sharpest spray I could muster from a plain spray bottle. It went further than I thought and she didn't like it.

Maddie: Does anyone else still live in a neighborhood where kids play in the street and Don’t Immediately post on lost and found if an unleashed pet runs through the yard?I

We do, Maddie, and we are so glad. It's a pleasure once again to have kids in the neighborhood. When we moved in 26 years ago there were lots of kids our kids' ages. It was great! The kids all grew up and moved on, their parents, including us, stayed and the neighborhood went quiet.

Many of the old folks moved away in the last 4 years or so and new families with kids and dogs began moving in. It's joyful! It's always been a lovely neighborhood of well kept homes and good neighbors, but I am loving seeing my new neighbors change their landscaping and facades, etc., and the new energy they are bringing in.

Every time i see kids on bikes or chasing each other around my cul de sac my heart leaps. Some day I suppose a young family will live in my home. I know they will love it here they way we have and do.

I have to say something for all the "woods" people think it is ok for their dogs to doo doo in! Our corner of the world is made up of lots of 2-3 acres. Many are heavily wooded or lined in "wild" areas not lawns per-say. I happen to tramp through mine quite frequently. I try and keep invasives at bay and hate anything with a sharp barb that could be painful to kids playing. I DO NOT appreciate the piles I come across in "the woods"!! If you do not OWN the property I do not comprehend how anyone thinks their animal can use it as a toilet!!! I don't care how WILD it is!! Ditches ok?, NO!!!--someone is mowing at some point and poop stuck in tire-treds REEK!! I think the signs are great, I think a humorous one would be best. No one should be FORCED to be a crabby neighbor!!

This has been an interesting discussion. I live in a planned community with sidewalks on every street. It is understood that your dog can use the grass between the sidewalk and road(some call it the devil strip) for his "business", and you must clean up poops. Not all do, unfortunately. There are also poop stations throughout the neighborhood with bags and waste containers for anyone to use. I sometimes see a large poop within feet of the waste station! Also, many have that little "no pee/no poop" sign on their lawn. I respect that and understand. I am curious about the people who have that sign on their lawn, in the strip of grass between sidewalk and street, who recently got a puppy. They walk the puppy. Does their dog never pee in anyone's devil strip? I can get my dog to wait to poop until I give her permission, but pee...not so much.

arcy, I'm one of the "let-them-go-in-the-woods" group, but I think we have different definitions of "woods". Yours sounds lovely and private. The woods that line the road in my cottage setting are wild scrubby areas filled with poison ivy, skunk cabbage, fallen branches and dead leaves. I live near the epicenter of Lyme disease and no one walks through these areas. Not only that, but due to an archaic ownership structure here, people who summer here own only their structure, not the land below it. In practice, we each have a defined yard, but the woods belong to the family who owns the whole kit and caboodle. My kids are the 5th generation here so strange as the system is, it works for us.

At my home in Philly, there are woods that border my property and I have zero problems with any dog who poops there. I don't walk through it ever, plus we do have some wild critters who no doubt also relieve themselves there.

That's a great point, jojo. I've thought a couple of times while reading this thread that some of the comments came across as a bit condescending... an "I would NEVER live in such a way..." sort of attitude expressed. Then it occurred to me that I may have well come across that way with my words too. I think we each know and understand our own environment and experience so intimately, that we all tend to view what others describe through our own lens. It's human nature, I'm sure. But I do appreciate that there are many who do seem to make allowance for things they don't fully understand, and that's something we should all strive to do more often.

I think the woods, in an area not near a trail etc is acceptable. Like Jo said, lots of other animals are using the woods for their toilet and they are not vaccinated, fed premium food, subject to regular vet care, etc.

Actually, leaving dog poop in the woods is never a good idea because it messes with the environment due to the difference in diet between the dog and the native animals.

Why dog poop shouldn't be left in the woods

I believe if you put lime on the spots where urine is you can counter the urine effects. Of course I don't think you could convince dog owners to pay for the lime.

I tend to look for the whys so that I can understand why it's happening. Trying to change the things if I can and perhaps accept it if I can't. Knowledge is power?

I don't think it is right to go in other people's yards and I don't allow my dogs to do it ever but it seems like most dogs are following animals who have already done that late at night etc.

It is difficult to reason with an animal brain. Particularly when one is driven as with my high scent driven Labradoodle. I have to keep tearing him away from trails he is on when it's obvious that the animal he is following was not on a sanctioned trail and did not have permission to go through someone's yard. When I see him intently watching and following my kitten around for the last two days the whole time I see how driven he is by curiosity. And perhaps the need for a job.

I like to think dogs are reading the news their way. They want to smell the same way we want to go on the internet and get stimulated by conversation and affirmation from our fellow beings. I wonder what a doggie like entails. Probably it has something to do with food.

Bestyears in an alreadytoughweekthatmessageisarealalreadytoughweekthatmessageisareal downer Houzz n'tn'tdoesntliken'tn'tdoesntlikemy new tablet dtablet andand II can'tcan't typetype ae

We have sidewalks with he// strips and fairly small yards. Our street is popular with dog walkers because it’s long, but ends in a cul-de-sac and is quiet. My favorite is a gentleman who lives on a very busy nearby road, and walks his two here daily. He always stops to chat and compliment me on my yard/flower beds, while I get to love on his big, sweet dogs. One likes to talk to me. :)

Anyway, he walks them in the street rather than on the sidewalk and never lets them go into anyone’s yards.

I really appreciate his consideration and told him so. He said his dogs have their own yard to do their business, play in grass, etc ... he’s walking them for exercise and change of scenery, not for toilet time.

Our town has very nice dog parks (and walking trails) for people who live in apts or other places with no room for them to have outdoor fun. They’re very popular.

I have to add these pictures of Not Our Dog because, so darn cute. (She’s my niece dog and we dog-sit often for my brother and SIL.)

Sorry to go O/T, Ida and all, but look at her! She loves to play peekaboo in our laps. 😄

omg so darn cute. I'm gonna hafta wake up our dog and tell her to get crackin'

I think I mentioned woods, or edge of woods. Just to clarify, our pup was never off-leash on walks and never actually IN someones yard or IN the woods, just

off the road and never more than peed. Our county does have a leash law.

i have to admit I cracked up at the term “doo-doo”!!!

what a cutie Jinx!

Awwwww! Your NOD is just precious, Jinx! ❤

Jojoco-I am sure you are correct--but that is the bottom line issue with this thread, people who "allow" their animals to do their toileting on property that is not THEIRS. Those scrubby woods if not yours are not yours to decide! Wild life is a part of life but again that is not the issue..the issue is OWNERS allowing their animals to help themselves! The properties around me are scruffy and wild and full of prickles and poisons also. MINE is not because I want my peeps to play without injury. We wouldn't dig a plant out of community property, we wouldn't throw trash or cigarette butts in the scruffy woods why is it ok to allow domestic animals to think it's a public toilet??

We just moved from a home on twelve acres, ten of which we managed under a voluntary conservation agreement with our county. Our property was filled with wildlife. Anyone complaining about dog or cat poop in the woods must not have a significant deer population. The piles.......just saying.

As mentioned up thread by Bestyears, dog waste is different than wild animal waste. Responsible people should scoop, even in the woods. Even if it is right next to wild animal scat.

https://lnt.org/wildlife-poop-versus-dog-poop-explained/

Dee, thanks, I learned something from that article.

Thanks Dee...I did not know that and now I know better. I will do better as a result. Interesting discussion.

I never knew about the problems associated with dog poop in the woods until about a year ago, when one of my DS's friends, an Environmental Engineer, educated me. I'm glad I know better now, but some days it feels exhausting just trying not to turn around and step in it all the time!

Another dog owner, but I don't walk them, couldn't handle 3 at once. I do have a chain linked side yard that borders the sidewalk and the street. My dogs love to greet other dogs and dog walkers .. it becomes a pee fest since they are all trying to mark over each others pee. Never bothered me, doesn't still even after reading all the above responses. I love that there are tons of dogs and their human walkers, my dogs and I have become friends with most of them and always greet the new ones. But each to their own, if it bothers you, then it does.

@IdaClaire, I sent you a PM with some links that might be helpful for your vent problem? Did you see it? With Houzz so crazy, it is hard to know if things actually get through. Sorry to bother you If you’ve seen it and it isn’t applicable.

I live in a suburban area that doesn’t have sidewalks. When my neighbors walk their dogs, they stay in the street which is where the dogs do their business- their poop is easily scooped off the road and no pee is killing grass or flowers. I would be really surprised if I saw a leashed dog on my grass doing its business- curbing your dog isn’t just for city neighborhoods.

Bbstx, yes I finally got your PM, but it didn't appear in my inbox until SEVENTEEN DAYS after you had sent it! I replied by PM to you, but suspect you haven't gotten mine either. Houzz is ridiculous!

I thank you for your thoughts about the vent. We have just hired an attorney and things are about to get going. We are sick of this whole thing, so decided to take action ourselves.

On one of my walking routes a beautiful Cape Cod style house with immaculate grounds has a small plate (salad plate size) actually stuck in the ground so you can see the whole plate. Written across the top edge says “ Please don’t pee” and across the bottom it says “Thank you, your neighbor”. I went by there today to take a picture and of course it was gone! it’s actually a sweet china plate with a floral design. It gets the message across in a very nice way. I can’t help but smile every time I see it.

With respect to the website content from the Center for Outdoor Ethics / Leave No Trace folk, I have some news for them if they are under the misapprehension that any open area is “essentially a closed loop” of nutrients and its own ecosystem. Unless you don’t allow people or pets in the area at all any non native specie who walks there, cooks there, pitches a tent there, poops and buries it there, etc., leaves the imprint of their presence and changes the ecosystem. The bears avoid the interlopers and therefore their desireable poop containing a potential forest of new flora is missing from a popular camping area. They may consequently overseed another area and thereby choke out a particularly important type of plant. And urine, both human and animal, cannot be carted out or buried where it does no harm. The urine of some humans taking certain medicines can be harmful to other species.

I understand that in a busy campsite with lots of people and dogs running around, the amount and impact of bodily waste has to be mitigated somehow. In a pristine forest setting of many acres, alone on a walk with my dogs, I am not going to pick up their poop.

I pick up all of my dogs' poop wherever I am. Of course I might miss some here and there. My intent is to keep it to leaving zero waste.

It isn't just the forest that poop causes problems in it is also the waters.

I wish I could do something about the pee but it would be unrealistic as millions have gone before me and every drop of pee is smelled by my dogs and too often answered with their own pee.

After struggling with being as pristine as I could I have concluded that we are all a part of nature and unfortunately there will be some impact from us. I try to minimize it but it is reality.

https://www.keepitcleanpartnership.org/pollution-prevention/scoop-the-poop/

Ida this NY Times article talks about dogs going on neighbors' lawns.

hcbm - thanks for posting that article.

Last week I was delivering staples to our township building for the food pantry and the zoning officer stopped to help. I asked her who owns the property between the sidewalk and the curb. She said that in our township and most other places it is owned by the homeowner and but that there is a right of way for utilities. I mentioned this discussion and she laughed and said that she's heard it all before and gave me a copy of the regulations which she keeps on the counter.

Our town not only has a leash law but the leash may not be longer than 6 feet . If the dog is walked off premises it must be accompanied by a responsible person over 12 years. The 'curb your dog' regulation states that dogs may only use the street area between the curbs to do their business.

And I learned a new word - she called that area between the sidewalk and the street a 'verge.'

I'm unable to read the article since I don't have a NYT subscription, but appreciate you sharing it here hcbm.

I can say that since the one time of catching the woman letting her dog roam and piddle on our lawn, I haven't seen her again. I have since learned that there was a wedding on the street behind ours, and the woman and her dog MAY have been a part of the entourage attending. What's making me crazy now is a dog a few houses down that is left in the backyard to bark unattended. Maybe some dog owners are able to tune that out, but I'm not. I hear it when I'm trying to enjoy the peace of our outdoor patio, but otherwise it's not problematic once inside our house. It's possible that the dog barks when the owners are away, in which case they need to know that this is an ongoing issue. That said, I'm taking a sabbatical (duration TBD) from b*tching about things in our neighborhood to the HOA or to neighbors. It's draining. And yes, it's "JUST" a dog barking, but still. If I owned a dog, I wouldn't just let it sit outside and yap, that's for darn sure.

I digress. :-)

We could start a whole nother thread about barking dogs. Some people are so insensitive.

We had neighbors that would put their dog out at 6:30 am and it would bark and bark for 45 minutes. My guess was they were leaving the dog out while getting ready for work. We sent them a polite note explaining that not all of us are awake or want to be woken up at 6:30 am. Luckily, it did get much better.

Ida- Here you go.

ASK REAL ESTATE

Can My Dog Poop on Someone’s Lawn if There’s No Sidewalk?

Even conscientiousness dog owners sometimes find themselves in stinky situations.

By Ronda Kaysen

Q: When I take my dog for a walk in my suburban New Jersey neighborhood, I t to encourage him to do his business on the berm between the sidewalk and the curb. But on some blocks, lawns run right up to the curb, leaving no sidewalk. A homeowner recently yelled at me for letting my dog go on her lawn, even though I had picked it up. She has since posted a sign telling dogs to stay off her grass. I was taken aback. I’m a courteous dog owner, but what else am I supposed to do? My dog needs to go.

A: Your neighbor’s lawn is not your dog’s bathroom, regardless of the design. The nitrogen content in the urine could damage her grass or plants. If she has children, she may not want them playing on a soiled lawn, especially because your dog’s waste could potentially carry harmful diseases. And if she has a dog of her own, another canine marking his territory might stress her pet.

For all these reasons, train your dog to defecate closer to home. “Why would you walk your dog to my property when you have a yard?” said Jean Owen, the owner of NJ Fix My Dog in Morristown. “Frankly, it’s gross.”

Ms. Owen suggests that you instead designate a place on your property where your dog can relieve himself. To train him, stand near the spot until he goes and reward him with a treat, and then a walk. “It is very easy to teach,” saidAndrea Arden, a Manhattan dog trainer, “especially with puppies. On the second or third trip, they’re going to go to the bathroom where you teach them.”

This will benefit everyone involved. If you walk your dog with the goal that he might eventually pee or poop along the way, expect distractions to drag out the process. “When it’s pouring rain, you are going to have to walk half a mile” before the dog relieves himself, Ms. Owen said.

Consider the sign and the earlier conversation with you as polite ways to make a point. (You’re probably not the only offender.) Other frustrated homeowners have resorted to sprinkling the ground with cayenne pepper or ginger, which can cause nasal irritation, or set sprinklers to motion detectors to spray pets on their property. By contrast, your neighbor chose a clear, direct and safe tactic to get your attention. In return, heed her request, and stay off her grass.

I don't care if dog-owners think I am not a nice person if I protest when their dogs pee/poop on my yard. WTH? I don't walk on their yard and pee/poop on it. (Though I guess I could send my toddler grandson to do it. He'd think it was funny.) Yes, I understand that dogs pee. That's what they do. However, I don't own a dog and your dog's pee needs shouldn't be my problem.

I have a motion sprinkler installed. Works well. I set it just far enough inside my property that cars going by on the street do not set it off, but someone/something in my yard will.