Burgundian Rose

Alice Vena

Doorenbos Selection

Boule de Nanteuil

Tuscany

You did say you didn't mind if they spread : )

Alice Vena is beautiful but not in commerce. I love Belle de Crecy which stays short. The Faun is very nice and Little white Pet. Alfred de Dalmas was not healthy for me.

Hermosa?

Little White Pet. In my garden, where every rose gets WAY larger than it is "supposed" to, LWP stays under 3 ft tall. I have three mature ones, and none of them are taller than that. All healthy w/o spraying, too.

Jackie

Carol, just learned of the gallica Spotty on the gallica thread. HMF says only grows to 3 feet.

Thank you all so much! This is a REALLY helpful list. I have a gardener friend who is willing to dabble in OGRs, but she is adamant about her (really quite broad) requirements: health and height. She's okay with spading up spreaders, so suckering types are okay. She knows that Gallicas especially like to tangle together.

Everyones' experiences with OGRs that do or don't remain short is invaluable to me. I know we've all gotten ourselves into situations where "shorter" roses that we planted in our gardens have shot to the heavens after a few years. I usually just sigh and move mine or pass them along to others with space. My friend does NOT want to move her plants once they are well established.

If anyone thinks of other short and healthy old roses, please feel free to add them this list! My friend has space for quite a few plants.

Carol

Hi Chris, Spotty is 5' for me right now in central NJ. She reached 3' in year 1, and 4' in year 2. This is her 4th season with me, so she may get even taller. Not sure how she would do in PNW though.

There is a Bourbon, Madame Dore, from 1863 that is well-mannered and stays at 3'x3' even in the warmest coastal California climates. The inside is a deeper pink that is striking and the rose has one of my favorite scents, reminiscent of ginger, with healthy foliage in coastal Northern California. Blooms consistently in flushes and credit for the second photo goes to Vintage Gardens (I've not been able to capture a bloom on my own plant very well yet).

Justin

This was my Mme. Dore, and after having it for at least three years, during which time it stayed small and fragile (less than 2 feet tall and 1.5 feet wide, with only a few flowers at a time) I concluded I didn't have the right conditions for it. It is a very pretty rose though.

I don't know your friend's reasons for wanting short roses. Would it be useful to point out to her that Gallicas have long-lived canes and require little pruning, and that they can be sheared?

Does it have to be an official old rose or can it be a foundling or just not a modern introduction? Can it have a mixed background? I don't grow many of the old European once bloomers.I'm not sure my experience will be anything like your friend's with these, but here is what stays short for me.

Romaggi Plot Bourbon- I hesitate to mention it because I've only had it a year but I can tell you that it's a slow grower for me. It is also an easy rose to work with and is reasonably healthy here so far no spray. A foundling rose from CA. Blush pink and fragrant.

Charles Walker Mignonette- not easy to find. I got mine from Vintage. This foundling rose has stayed at +/- 2 ft. and it is charming. Little bunches of ball-shaped button sized white flowers that just cover it in spring, then blooms on and off the rest of the season. Healthy. Fragrant.

Winecup- A foundling from Texas- Single to semi-double wine-colored blooms with a white eye on a tough healthy plant. A constant bloomer with a light fragrance. I have no idea why this isn't more popular.

I can think of more but this is a start.

Thank you, Lin, Wild White Rose, Ingrid, Melissa and Kes!

Carol

Melissa, I have mentioned that Gallicas can be sheared, but I thank you for noting it out loud for others who might be looking for short OGRs and catch this thread. There is a series of low windows that my friend doesn't wish to block, and she says she wants to be extra certain that she won't have roses throwing octopus arms beneath it. I'm rolling with her desires, but suggestions and verification from other forum members' experiences are helping me to feel confident that the final list I suggest will have a better shot at actually naming SHORTER roses. If she were gardening in CA, I'd have to break the news that ALL roses exceed specified heights in that state. Ha, ha.

KES, I think foundlings are good. My friend is into history. She likes the look of old roses. My Camaieux is only 2.5 feet tall and slowly spreading. She liked both Camaieux and its reversion a lot and asked what else grows like Camaieux. I would look at my old Vintage Gardens catalog, but I set it aside somewhere while sorting my library. I've been on a mission and have moved along 1500 books or more in 2 years. Our family still has 1000, and during the pandemic, I've been rather glad. Our book collection is keeping us occupied and educated. :-)

Carol

(OT) Hear, hear, about the books, Carol: I agree on all points.

Your friend's situation sounds like it would be ideal for beds of suckering, low-growing Gallicas, one variety taking over a small plot. I enjoy them grown that way.

Or, how about Gruss an Aachen or Pink Gruss an Aachen? They're both pretty and seem to stay small, at around 3ft x 3ft for most people, IIRC... I can't remember how disease-resistant they are...

There's also a small/ low tea, Marie Lambert aka Snowflake, which is very pretty though not exactly spectacular and my impression (rightly or wrongly) is that it's not a very prolific bloomer, so may not be the best introduction to old roses for your client.. unless that's just what they're looking for...

You might like to read the Members' Comments on it, on HMF:

https://www.helpmefind.com/rose/pl.php?n=6808&tab=32

Melissa, Here's to good books, plenty of roses and a delicious cup of tea in an antique porcelain cup! Beds of suckering Gallicas along the low windows are definitely going into the plan.

Comtesse, thank you for the suggestions! In addition to garden bed ideas my friend was just asking about roses in pots, and for some reason Gruss an Aachen slipped though my sieve of a brain. GaA grows well here and would be perfect in her blue and white patio pot. I'm going to mention it to her tomorrow.

Jeri, my friend also loves your Hermosa suggestion (she fell head over heels for the silvery pink, mini bourbon blooms) and plans to grow it in a blue pot on the patio. Conveniently, I had already rooted a Hermosa! Even though it is a polyantha, I recommended Marie Pavie for the third patio pot because it's lovely, low maintenance, very fragrant and ever-blooming. These 2 should play nicely together and blend well with Gruss an Aachen.

So, thank you all! This was truly a joint effort. In front of the low windows, in 4 separate beds, we're starting with Camaieux, Tuscany (not the taller Tuscany Superb), Camaieux reversion and Belle de Crecy mixed with feverfew, columbines, lavender and some low-growing purple bearded irises which are passalongs from an elderly neighbor of mine. My friend can add more perennials in time, but I'm separating some of my garden plants and donating them to the cause. :-) I've introduced my friend to Joy Creek Nursery, Annie's Annuals, Old House Gardens and Bluestone. I foresee clematis and other wonderful plants arriving by the truckload once she's perused these catalogs and websites.

Old rose success! Thank you all, everyone, for helping me with a new convert. .High fives all around. Carol