Keith, I wasn't thinking about the Earthtainers in terms of the plants appearance, because some years Raybo's plants look less-than-beautiful by mid-season too. In other years, though, his plants look a lot better than my plants, whether mine are in the ground or in containers. However, Raybo's plants always produce high numbers of fruit and that interests me. I was really posting the info about Earthtainers because there are a lot of new gardeners who want to grow tomato plants in very limited space, and for them something like an Earthtainer or Earth Box or Grow Box might be more effective than growing in the ground if their ground, or their time, are very limited. Or, growing in a self-watering container that might let them try growing something in an easier way than the usual process of breaking up the soil and improving it. Then, if successful with a self-watering container, they might branch out and try an in-ground garden. I get really high production from plants grown in molasses tubs but have to water them a lot. If I could get equal production from Earthtainers without having to water 2 or 3 times a day during the peak of the season, I'd be a happy camper. So why haven't I tried Earthtainers? Mostly it is because I know that too much water causes all kinds of tomato problems, including cracking, splitting and watered-down flavor. So, I am skeptical that tomatoes grown in self-watering containers would taste as good as those exactly same varieties grown in the ground. For me, high production is important but so is growing tomatoes with great flavor. I do think it would be interesting to try it, though. And, for urban gardeners looking to produce a lot in a little space, the SWCs could be a great solution. I have wondered, too, if tomato plants in self-watering containers in our climate would suck up all the water from the reservoir daily and if I'd still be watering every day even if using them. I think there's a good chance that would occur, so if it did, then SWCs wouldn't really be an improvement over regular containers, would they? Years before I ever saw one of Raybo's Earthtainers on the tomato forum, a guy named Josho was building something similar but simpler, and I remember seeing photos of those long ago. and I've toyed with the idea of trying them, but haven't done it yet (which says something, doesn't it, about me either being wishy-washy or just not wanting to take on one more gardening task in the months when the days are too long, and so is the 'to do' list). One of these years, I'll try an Earthtainer or Earthbox or Grow Box, or all three at the same time. I don't know that it will be this year, though. Jay, I've always felt the same way....that our climate is more harsh and likely we would not have the same results, or maybe we'd get large yields but watered down flavor. However, I feel kind of bad about automatically dismissing them without trying them. Maybe I'd be surprised and a self-watering container would produce better than I think. I used to think you couldn't grow celery here in our climate, and you've proven me wrong on that one, lol, so maybe we're making the wrong assumptions on SWCs in our climate too. Who knows? If I had a friend or relative wanting to try gardening for the first time ever in the simplest way possible, though, I'd recommend they try a tomato plant in a self-watering container and one in a standard large container. I'd suggest they grow the two side-by-side and see which one performed better and which one gave them the best-tasting tomatoes and the best yields. That's the only way they (or any of us) could be sure about the merits of a SWC versus a standard container. We're looking at the southern drought spreading into OK from the east and south and making our gardening lives less easy in 2011, and I know I am going to have to settle for a smaller garden/lower yields, etc. If I thought SWCs would make a difference (and I haven't decided if I think they would or wouldn't), I'd make some SWCs in January when it is too cold and icky to be outside and would try them with the February-planted early tomatoes. If I liked what I saw from them, I might try them with a couple of mid-season tomatoes planted slightly later. I think that in a typical year here, the SWCs might not be worth the time or expense, but in a really epic drought year, they might. Here at our house, with the heavy red clay soil, an epic drought gives us soil as hard as concrete and it dries so hard that when you try to water, the water rolls downhill into the retention pond at the foot of the garden and very little gets absorbed. Even inproved clay soil that is heavily mulched just doesn't perform well in the worst drought conditions, because we cannot afford to spend as much money as it takes to keep the soil moist in those conditions. So, the real question for me is whether or not I think 2011 will be an epic drought year or just a moderate one. On that point, I am undecided, but here at our house, rainfall has plummeted the last 6 or 8 weeks and I believe our 2011 drought has begun. Our ground (and, remember, we had oodles of rain in Sept. and early Oct.) is cracking and I'm having to water the soil around the foundation about every 3rd or 4th day. Wildfires are increasing. I have been watching very, very closely all the info coming out of the U. S. Drought Monitor and the Texas Forest Service, since our property is surrounded on three sides by Texas and our conditions here are more like theirs than those found even 50 miles north of us in OK. I'm not liking what I am seeing coming out of Texas and other states in the south plagued by drought. Also, I've noticed through simple observation that in the years when La Nina brings heavy, heavy snow to the upper third of the USA, we almost always have a dry winter that carries us into spring very dry. Starting a garden in a dry spring is not easy. In 2003, I was slow to recognize the early start to the drought and waited too late to begin irrigating. I did a better job of irrigating earlier in 2005, but the drought finished off my garden in July anyway, and then except for a one day rainfall of over 9" in April 2006, we had the same issues in 2006. I just dread the thought of 2011 being like those years, but I think it likely. I think there's a good chance we'll have extreme drought issues in 2011 and if the La Nina weather pattern hangs on into the summer months, we could see exceptional drought, so I'm working on ways to combat those conditions. For me, it probably will be a once-and-done garden where I go into the gardening season with the knowledge that after July 1st, irrigation will cost more than it is worth and I won't irrigate after July 1st. That also means I'd be less likely to succession plant. It has been several years since I've done that, but in extreme to exceptional drought, there's really not any other choice. With the container-grown plants, I can water with a drip irrigation system and keep them going even if extreme drought is occurring, unless we have water rationing. However, in all the years we've lived here, we haven't had water rationing a single time so far in our community, so I don't expect it in 2011 unless one of the water company's wells runs dry or has techinical difficulties. It could be that in a year of extreme to exceptional drought, SWCs would be the ultimate solution for someone like me who wants to garden despite the drought. I guess I'll never know, though, if I don't try it. I may be the only gardener in southern OK obsessing over whether the southern drought will make gardening a nightmare in 2011, but what I'm seeing in Texas, and Georgia (where the winter onion plantings are in serious trouble due to drought) and points in between makes me think 2011 is going to be the most challenging year since 2005-2006 unless the La Nina weather pattern abruptly turns back neutral, which seems unlikely. I feel like I've become obsessed with drought the last 2 or 3 weeks, but that's because I'm working on my 'Grow List' for 2011, and I almost feel like I need to have two lists.....one list of what I'll plant if we're having normal weather (as if there is even such a thing as normal weather here) and a second list of what I'll plant if we seem to be in the early stages of a prolonged drought at planting time. Dawn

In Sacto I could expect my toms to send their roots down 3 feet in my soil there. They will go down ~5 if the soil is loose enough (in SS zone 17, though...hmmm...). Rule of thumb: the more soil volume, the more water and nutrients available for the plant and the more mass to buffer temperature swings, esp in SS 17, where you want to keep your heat if it is foggy all day (meaning fewer swings is better for the plant). And more soil weight will keep your cages anchored in the wind! Second, design the planters to your landscape and architecture, not what you think you might grow at some unknown time - that is: what makes sense for that space and volume? Then adjust your toms to the box you build, and their spacing will work itself out. 12" is too narrow. 18" maybe, depending upon the variety, have them protrude over the edge of the box, no problem, and they'll change the lines in your yard as well. Last, my clients almost always wanted bigger everything after time, if that helps any (but it depends upon your space). Bigger patio, bigger planters, bigger yard, bigger pots, bigger bigger bigger. HTH. Dan

The WetStyle f/s tub has a removable tray that sits across the tub. I like numberjunkie's idea of a shelf or ledge behind the tub for placing items and also like the idea of having the shower wall next to the tub tiled half-way up to have a space for installing a grab bar. WetStyle has an optional shelf that surrounds the tub, but I think it would make it more challenging to get in and out of the tub - would need to hop over the shelf. The drop-in tub I was initially considering was 72"x42" but that would likely not fit, so would need to be 72"x36". This weekend I looked at an open house (new construction) in my area that had a drop-in tub with a narrow space for the deck surround (see attached photo). The deck was tiled on the top and on the apron with white subway tile. I noticed that with the narrow deck space (about 2") and the tub overhang, it would be awkward to sit on the edge of the tub and swing my legs in or out of the tub. Wiithout space for a deck that is wide enough to comfortably sit on, ease of entry or exit may come down to depth of the tub and options for placement of grab bars. The Wetstyle tub is 22" deep; the drop-in tubs are generally deeper, more like 26"

Debrak, it is good to hear that it is not too difficult to move the plumbing or drain lines. We do have a basement bath about 10ft north of the sink. I am not sure how feasible it is to tie in the drain lines. As you can tell, we are definitely not DIY! Kudos to you and other DIYers. Sena, thanks for the heads up on the toe kick drawers and storage options. It will probably have to be toe kick heaters as there is hot water radiator running on the far wall. Buehl, we have so much difficulty finding good contractors who aren't super expensive and atleast somewhat competent and efficient. Lavender_lass, our neighbors are so close on both sides-we will probably reach into their yard with a bay! A general question- do you think I should write up two spec sheets for the two plans and have different contractors gives us their best price for both plans? or should i just draw up the switch plan and figure out who we want to go with. If the no's come out too high, then we can ask them to redo the estimate. I'm sure that doing two estimates at once is too much work to expect from them and anyway we have found only about 40% of the contractors we call are willing to come back to us with even one estimate! Thanks for all the advice.