To answer "Have you fertilized yet this spring?" question. I did not explain this in my original post; but I was trying to go the organic route. So since last fall I have been using Alfalfa, SBM and applying compost tea etc. This season I have applied two application of CGM at 10 lb/1k. First one when forsythia just started to bloom and second one after 9-10 days when forsythia was in full bloom. Based on what I have read, CGM does work as a fertilizer, it just takes 3 weeks to go into effect. The results also depend on how good soil biology you have got. Since I just started following organic practices last year, its very much possible I don't have good balance in the soil yet. I guess after going through all this, I have kind of concluded that for a new lawn, at least for first year you should take help of chemicals and once you get thick turf established then you gradually move into organics. I think "gradually" is the key. If you have been following organic practices since long time, then its different story. I hope this is not going start some big debate.. Having said that based on Auteck's suggestion I am going to give it a quick dose of nitrogen. I am hoping that boost will give some more strength to grass to help win the battle with weeds. Bestlawn, yes I do want to overseed this fall. In fact I have enough leftover from last year to do this overseeding. While googling, on Dowagro website I read 'one application of Dimension will give 120 days of control'. On another website someone had posted a label from a bag and it said you can do overseeding after 8 weeks. So It seems ok to put Dimension. Worst case I will have to do overseeding in Sept instead of Aug. I will have to ask Lesco guy when I go to buy it. Anyone has a bag who can answer this here? I will keep those pic at Picasa. No problem. Thanks.

To all: After showing a sample of the granules to my pharmacist, who is also a farmer, and to three owners of the big local farm and home store, all thought it was Blue/Golden Malrin. All thought it was not copper sulfate. They've worked with both. So I bought a can of Malrin, but it really differs from the product put around the tree. Granule size is similar, but Malrin is a chalky light blue with soft rounded edges, whereas the suspect granules are glossy, much brighter and deeper in color, and with sharp edges. More like glass. Malrin has a strong carrion smell(the fly attractant) and my stuff doesn't have hardly any smell when dry. As I probably said before, there is a slight sulfurous smell when dry, and when burned, a medium burned rubber smell with a high and sharp smell that is like an extremely acidic, refined vinegar. Not powerful. The granules become a gooey like carbon substance when burned. We are having the lab check for Malrin, Copper Sulphate (in case my flame test was inadequate,) and general fertilizer. They do need specific ranges of chemicals to test. I'm thinking it might be a spreadable broadleaf lawn herbicide, commonly used around here, but the range of them is many. So any new suggestions for testing would be appreciated. Thanks again to all. PS: Hopefully not Malrin, unless the product appearance has changed. Read the label. Really must be used with caution.

Well, I'm gonna recommend you try the method that hasn't worked for Connie! LOL! I have that problem with KBG too, and it's hard for me to imagine that it isn't a problem, to some extent, with everybody! When I bought this house, the lawn was edged with commercial grade, steel edging, with the "non-grass" areas covered with landscape fabric, which was covered with ROCK--both of which I hate! The front yard, which I mostly ignore, still has the fabric and rock, and definitely has a problem with the grass spreading past the edging--mostly because I ignore it and rarely sit down to try to clean it up! (So much for edging and landscape fabric and mulch keeping out grass--and weeds!) In the backyard, where I garden, and LIVE, it's in much better shape! With railroad ties on the sunny side, there's no problem, obviously, and on the other side with the steel edging, as soon as I see a "sprig" of grass show up on the wrong side of the edging, I take the time to dig/pull it. You MUST get all of the root or it just keeps on going and going and going! So the steel edging in the backyard has worked fairly well for me. BUT--since I moved in, the grass has been slowly "disappearing" on the other two sides of the yard, where I now have perennials and veggies! The first couple years that was a big problem, but I didn't really want any more steel edging! Sometime really early on, after I found GW, before I found RMG I think, I read about somebody using the "ditch" method of edging. Wasn't even sure what they meant, but remembered it anyway, and decided to try it---without even being sure I knew what I was supposed to do! I went down the one side of the yard, cutting thru the sod like I'd do if I were digging more sod out (which, in fact, I was also doing along with my "ditching" project--increasing the width of the perennial space!). I used the long, narrow type of spade (rather than a regular shovel) because it has much less of a "curve" than a regular shovel, so I got a straighter line. I didn't use one of those little curved edging shovel thingies---'cause I didn't have one, AND I wanted to dig much deeper than they do anyway! I was digging down in close to a foot, then "wiggling" the shovel forward and backward to "loosen up" the soil, then pulling the shovel back out and sticking it back in overlapping with the previous place. I did that for 7 or 8' at a time, and then I'd sit down with my Little Digger (trowel) and dig/pull out a little chunk of sod, knock any good soil off of it, and throw the rest in a big pot to go on the compost pile or in the trash--depending on how bad the clay was! I wasn't digging out anywhere near a foot down (maybe 5-6"), but by loosening it up that far down, it was much easier to get the "top" out. When digging it out, I made sure--as much as I could--that I got all the rhizomes out that were going the wrong way--past where my new "ditch" was gonna be! I had watered--as in really saturated--the whole area a day or two before, so I wasn't working in mud, but it was very moist where I was working. If the soil is too dry, you can't even hope to pull the rhizomes out! If it's moist enough, you can "follow" the rhizome to the end, sometimes loosening the soil with the tip of your scissors or something, to be sure it doesn't break off! Did I mention that this is a lot of work? Did I mention that I really enjoy sitting out in the yard on a nice day or evening, "doing things!" And did I mention that I really, really, really, enjoy going back out there after I've finished something to gaze upon my accomplishment!!! After pulling out the sod, shaking off some of the soil, and removing the "bad" rhizomes, I left a "ditch" roughly 4" deep from the level of the sod. Then I sloped it gently back up from the bottom of the ditch to the "garden bed" part, and put a THIN layer of bark mulch down the slope to the bottom of the ditch! This leaves the "edge" of the ditch exposed so it dries out, making it much harder for the grass rhizomes to keep spreading! (I think you may have had more of a problem, Connie, because you kept the whole ditch filled with mulch, keeping the "cliff edge" of the soil wet enough for the rhizomes to keep spreading, either right thru the mulch, or more deeply in the soil.) The first year will be a bear!!! Right after you do it, you'll find the totally weirded out rhizomes trying to go every which way! You just really messed with Their World! Probably after only a month or so, you'll need to go all along the edge and pull off the rhizomes that are desperately looking for some way to grow--up, out, or down far enough to reach the soil again! Water well the day before, and it's not that much of a problem--and another nice sit in the yard! When you pull them out at this point, it's probably gonna look like your pulling out "chunks" of the grass that you still want, but, take my word for it, that'll fill back in FAST! You'll also have a problem with the rhizomes that were growing deeper than the bottom of your ditch--left over from when they could grow that deeply because they were "protected" by the soil that used to be on top of them! Again, you need to have wet/moist soil, and you just follow them "back," from the point where you see a blade of grass coming up, to the grass on the lawn side of the ditch. After the first year, the "deep" rhizome problem will get less and less. I still have a couple places where I have a problem, but that's mostly places where my ditch isn't deep enough, and next time I go around and "re-edge" it, I'm gonna make it a little deeper everywhere than it is now, now that I know it's working for me! For maintenance, I try to go down each side of the yard about once a year, to "re-edge" it, and to kinda put the ditch back in, since it tends to "fill up" little by little when I'm working out there, and with watering! During the summer, I do with the "ditched" parts what I do with the steel edging--if I see blades of grass coming up in the beds, the next time it's watered well, I take a few minutes to carefully dig in (tip of scissors again--one of my primary garden tools!) and remove the rhizomes. I admit, I really wasn't expecting it to work in the beginning--and that initial blast of rhizomes coming up seemingly everywhere, had me doubting even more, but I kept it up and it's gotten easier and easier, and I like the look of it much more than any of the edgings I'm familiar with! I recommend a minimum of 4" deep for the ditch (and I think I'm gonna start to go for about 5") and then cover it with just enough mulch to conserve moisture and to get the appearance you want, making sure the edge of the "cliff" can dry to discourage the rhizomes from going that direction! One problem I do have is that when I cut the grass I need to be careful or I "vacuum up" all of the bark mulch in the ditch! There is NO way to get established rhizomes out of things like sedum or iceplant, or iris, or daylilies, without digging and replanting the plants! And when you do that, you need to be sure you get even the tiniest rhizomes out of the soil before replanting them! With sedum, it may be easiest to just take cuttings and start new plants and then dig and dispose of the old ones. With things like iris, you can pretty easily dig and "wash" the soil off of the roots before replanting, but not till after they're done blooming this year or you'll really mess with them! I've never tried a grass killer that doesn't kill broadleaf plants, but if anyone has, I'd love do know how successful it was--just for future reference since I don't really have anywhere that I need it now. In the front yard I've gone around a couple times in the past with Roundup and sprayed the grass coming up in the fabric/rocks, and I didn't worry a lot if I got a little bit of the "good" grass! It comes back!!! I do have a patch of "weed grass" in my front lawn, but I've never even figured out what it is! I've been quite unsuccessful at getting rid of it, but so far the best "treatment" I've found for that is to keep the lawn well watered, which seems to encourage the KBG and "squeeze out" the weed stuff. Problem is that I use my best "drought watering techniques!" I water infrequently and very deeply, so the surface dries considerably in between, which seems to make the weed stuff happy. Last year I tried to keep that one spot watered more often, and I think it was starting to help. Gonna to go with that plan again this year! Any chances you'll be coming to the swap this year, Holly? You could see my "ditches" if you did! Let me know if you have any ditch questions, Skybird P.S. Connie, I just noticed you said that you have/had your ditch next to edging. I don't have any edging at all where I have the ditches!

Just came acroos this, it's what mine looks like, anyway. When I googled G. dissectum most of the flowers were darker and a little bigger, but that's not unusual I suppose. Also NOT native to US, just widely naturalized (probably from those stupid "wildflower" mixes, like I got it from). Annual or biennial. Here is a link that might be useful: Further on down on the forum-Is this a weed?