Red Oak Floors Super Grainy After Staining - What can I do?

3 years ago

Hello, My contractor installed Red oak wood floors in the dining room of my Victorian home. I wanted to stain to warm the wood color to match the rest of the house but after staining the wood is super grainy and looks super messy/cacophonous. Why so grainy? Anything I can do to correct?

Featured Answer

SJ McCarthy

3 years ago

Red oak is KNOWN for it's heavier grain (when compared to white oak). Red Oak is more abundant and less desirable (cheaper) then white oak which is why it is often a popular choice for hardwood floors.

The level of grain comes from the 'cut' (rift or quarter sawn have less grain = much more expensive). The GRADE of the cut can also determine SOME of the grains' appearance (higher grade = cleaner looking wood = more expensive). That's the wood-side of things. The material itself. What was the cut/grade of the red oak?

Now we come to the MATERIALS and techniques used side of the equation. A very popular staining technique (which is an upgrade = more expensive application) is called 'water popping'. This technique HIGHLIGHTS the grain of the wood. The grain is opened up with the technique which allows MORE stain to be absorbed by the mineral streaks (the grain). The rest of the wood is only slightly effected. Hence the strong definition of the grain.

Now comes the real question: How did you decide upon the colour you wanted to 'match' the original floors? Do you have photos of the colour swatches your professional used on the new red oak? Did your professional add a coat of polyurethane to show you the FINAL look of the floor? Did the professional 'water pop' the colour samples?

How close of a match is the new red oak to the old wood? Did you test for a species match before the red oak was chosen?

Please load photos of your old wood floors. We might be able to help a little bit more once we know what you were trying to match.

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Comments (16)

Aglitter
3 years ago
He may have used a technique to pop the grain. If the topcoat has not yet been applied, it is hard to say what it will look like in the end. Didn't he do a sample with topcoat for you? It should look like your finished sample when it's all done.
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We have white oak kitchen cabinets with a very light stain. Our house was originally built with white oak floors, which we thought were red oak. We had to replace quite a few boards and we used red oak so now we have a red and white oak floor (definitely by accident). I'm with you on the white oak being nicer. Despite the efforts of our floor refinisher, the red oak still has a pinkish cast to it. In order to make the white and red oaks really blend, we would have had to go with darker stain on the floor, which we didn't want. Have you checked local cabinet makers for prices for white oak cabinets. We found that some could only get red oak and others could only get white oak. The guy who could only get white oak wasn't any more expensive than the guy who could only get red oak.
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If you do not have the time to stain test (which is a BIG no-no = you get what you get and that's all that you get), I HIGHLY recommend that your flooring professional create sample boards (2ft x 2ft for each board) made from the same red oak as your floors. You then have the colours applied to those boards. Then take the boards INTO THE HOME to view them. Chose from the sample boards, sign the favourite and date it. Give it to the refinisher so that they can get things ready to go for your time line. That's as good as you can get. And if you are on a timed schedule...please make sure the refinisher is working with a water based polyurethane. They have faster cure times and have LOW ODOUR and LOW VOC content. Too many times homeowners have rushed into a sand/refinish and moved in TOO SOON after an oil based finish was put down. The headaches, nausea and nose bleeds caused them to move into a motel for 21+ days. That's not a happy place to be in. Do your due diligence today so that you can move in tomorrow. Oil based or even some oil modified products have such strong odours that moving in before 3 weeks has passed is not possible.
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@Maria P If you are still reading these comments, I want to THANK YOU for sharing. I am having my old red oak and some newly installed red oak floors stained Golden Oak .. right this very minute.. .and I am NERVOUS about it. Like you, I didn't realize the shade of red I was dealing with and didn't realize I couldn't get a lighter, more natural shade unless we bleached the floors. We have already spent a ton of money, so, we, too, are leaning in to the red oak and hoping for the best. Your pics make me hopeful.
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If you like your current colour then go ahead and put down a new version of it. If you want something different then I would go lighter. I love the look of red oak in the 'buff'. It is a pretty wheat/sand coloured wood. So long as you work with a high-end water based polyurethane that does NOT yellow, you will have a very pretty 'pale wood' floor without much effort. Your existing finish appears to be oil based (or oil modified) which makes the floor yellow. The strong gold tones in your wood right now = the finish. Did your refinisher apply a coat of FINISH over your colour samples? If they did NOT....then you are picking BLIND. And I mean screaming and crying and tearing your hair because your beautiful gray floors turned to a muddy orange mess. Not good. Do you see the pale colour of the raw wood? You can keep that colour (very close to it) with 3 coats of water based polyurethane like Bona Traffic HD. Keep the gloss level a snick on the low side (satin is a nice low-gloss option) and you keep that pretty 'swedish blonde' look.
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PRO
Johnson Flooring Co Inc
3 years ago
Sand to raw wood, water pop, stain and apply finish coats. The water popping process allows the harder grain to soak in more stain and reduce the graininess in addition to making the floor darker overall. We do three coats of finish over water popped floor instead of the usual two coats.
kathyg_in_mi
3 years ago
I love it. JMHO
Nancy Cruz thanked kathyg_in_mi
PRO
G & S Floor Service
3 years ago
Sand it down to raw wood and use a hybrid paint/stain system or layer the stain with aniline dye. That will get rid of the busy look.

Next time for a less busy look, use Rift and Quarter sawn not plain/flat sawn oak.
SJ McCarthy
3 years ago
Please show photos of what you are trying to match.
Jayne Watson
3 years ago
I have a similar question. tge red kut floors were water popped, stained and 3 coats of sealer applied. should I be able to feel and see the graininess? or is this a sign of not sealed right? I isually don't mind it.
PRO
G & S Floor Service
3 years ago
Unless you wire brush the floors. It should not feel grainy. With Three top coats, it should feel smooth and flat. Based on the image, they could have been more aggressive with the final buffing. That would have removed any raised grains.
Jayne Watson
3 years ago
thank you. I don't mind the look, but wonder if it will cause any problems, long term?
Jayne Watson
3 years ago
It is quick dry sealer. not sure if that matters?
SJ McCarthy
3 years ago
@ Jayne...when you say '3 coats of sealer' do you mean 3 coats of POLYURETHANE FINISH or do you mean a sealant that is used before polyurethane is put down?

Water popped floors have 'raised grain'. That's kinda the point. The raised grain is 'open' to more stain. Again...kinda the point - the grain accepts MORE stain = stronger colour. That's fine. That's normal.

But...and I mean a BIG BUT here...that grain is then 'knocked down' (screening process) after the FIRST COAT of polyurethane is applied. If a WATER BASED polyurethane has been applied the grain stands up ONCE MORE. Again...water based anything causes the grain to 'puff'. Not a problem...totally normal. A screening (very light sanding) happens between coats 1 and 2.

Right. And if the grain is STILL PROMINENT then the professional takes the time, ONCE AGAIN, to screen the floor between coats 2 and 3.

So the order of operations is (if done PROPERLY...ahem...you have to talk to your pro to find out the details):

1. Water pop

2. Stain application

3. First coat of poly

4. Screening (light sanding)

5. Coat #2

6. If needed...screening again

7. Coat #3

Whew! Now you see why water popping costs MORE? Right...it has not just ONE extra step...it might have 3 extra steps. And that's what you are paying for when water popping is done.

Feel free to go back to your professional and ask the order of operations, the finish and then how many screenings they did once the stain was put down. If they look at you like you have two heads, you have your answer = none.
Timothy Winzell
3 years ago
Even with 3 coats of finish, some wood will still have surface texture. Red Oak is especially grainy. This is generally a plus because a smooth floor will show more scuffs and wear.
Jayne Watson
3 years ago
@SJ Yes, I believe all those steps were taken. i was around for most if them.
So I'm gonna assume the wood is protected pretty well
SJ McCarthy
3 years ago
Then the 'sealant' is actually 'finish'. Excellent. The SCREENING to KNOCK DOWN THE GRAIN would be the most important part of the set up. Ask how many screenings they did. Water popping raises grain. A water based polyurethane raises the grain again. That means more effort was needed to knock down the grain.

The total coverage of the coats of finish would also become a question. Did they use TOO LITTLE finish? It is always possible. Especially if the product used was an expensive one. To save the cost of breaking open another gallon (and thereby wasting a couple hundred bucks) the finisher might have gone a little thin on the coats...just to stretch his/her materials.
Frances Szymanek
2 years ago
Nancy, I love your floors with the grain! It shows the wood is alive; I love the effect. What stain was used here? I want it! lol :)
ecgb
3 months ago
What stain color was used and did you find a solution to reducing the heavy grain?

Red Oak Floors Super Grainy After Staining - What can I do?

SJ McCarthy

Comments (16)

Aglitter

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