edie, I'm obviously (grin) thinking more clearly than you regarding tee paper hoarding, er, storage... You can have both, ya know ; )

toilet paper christmas tree - Google Search · More Info

LOL!!!!

I bought extra canned goods. My husband is on a low sodium diet, so I stocked up on Amy’s light in sodium canned soups, chili, and frozen entrees. I also bought some no-salt-added canned vegetables and low sodium crackers, along with some additional canned fruit.

Good plan! I visited our higher end supermarket for a sale on seafood this evening. Plenty of fish, but I've not before seen so many shelves or areas depleted. It was sobering. I stocked up on Monlauren and Vit D3 to help support our immune systems. I'll link a video.

Immune Support

“ Is this too simplistic? Find the source and treat the source so it's no longer an active or passive carrier”

Sooz, this virus has mutated and jumped to humans, it no longer needs the original species (bat, pangolin, whatever) that it came from.

University of Oregon will complète normal classes this week, then move to online-only for final exams and online-only classes for at least the start of the spring term. The university buildings and facilities will remain open, they just won’t hold physical classes.

DD will likely remain at school even during an online-only spring term, because she’s spending most of her time in the painting studio. It’s hard for her to paint at our house because we don’t really have a large enough space that she can take over. But she’ll come home for at least part of spring break and we’ll do some cooking.

DS can stay at school or come home for spring term, or alternate. They don’t have internet service in their apartment (they hotspot off their phones as needed), so to attend any online classes he will probably have to walk to campus and use the wifi there.

Compared to other West Coast states, Oregon is moving very slowly on this epidemic. Almost all large public events are still going forward, only a few schools are closing. Private companies and individuals are taking their own steps - many tech companies have started work-from-home - but with almost no government guidance. Our state government and health departments have been pretty quiet so far.

We are in the throes of political season, running toward our primary elections in May. So far, campaign events, candidate forums, etc have not been cancelled - but I expect that to start in a couple of weeks. I am supposed to throw another house party for one candidate, but am rethinking how much I really want to cram 40+ people in my house.

SWMBO is going to many events as she is an organizer for another candidate, so she is worried.

I don't know what the statistics are your end, but in France, ordinary flu kills 3000 people a year and no-one bats an eyelid. We must keep this in perspective.

I read that the wuhan bat was injected with the virus as a experiment and it escaped. Sounds like divine retribution to me 😋😋😋

I have a dear old friend in northern Italy. I'm worried for her.

Not an ordinary virus.

I started this thread ten days ago. This moved fast. I'm guessing NYC will be in lock-down in no time. One day at a time.

Yes, it all started right in Grand Central terminal, the lawyer, and soon NY infections top the whole country.

Grand Central is like a big food court as well as a busy train station.

dcarch

I don't know what the statistics are your end, but in France, ordinary flu kills 3000 people a year and no-one bats an eyelid. We must keep this in perspective.

I agree, we should keep things in perspective, but it's now almost human nature to panic. I think it's important to remember that the flu is 1/3 as contagious as the coronavirus. That's a perspective I also must keep in mind. And that the coronavirus has not yet hit the States in full force, whereas this year's variants of influenza has had time to. I also keep in mind that the weather is already warming in areas, and hopefully, this will have some effect on contagion. No one knows.

John, I never presume to tell another how to live their life, but were it me, I'd not wish to attend functions that were optional - I've already cancelled all mine for the near future, which might be premature, but then again I think others in other countries thought the same. Of course, I consider lots of things optional, whereas in the current climate, many might not consider political functions optional ; )

We've bumped to 9 positive, but I'm not surprised. I do feel there are far more who have this who've yet to show symptoms... and are spreading it as I type. Can't really be helped.

WA state has already started into lock down mode. Yesterday, Gov. Inslee asked for a ban on gatherings of more than 250 people in 3 major counties along the I-5 corridor. A good half dozen of the largest school districts - also in those 3 counties - are closed as of today for at least 2 weeks and employers are encouraged to offer telecommuting options as much as possible. The University of Washington was the first to cancel all in-person classes last week and has resorted to only online classes and testing through the rest of the semester.

btw, quarantining may not just be being restricted to your own home. The state has established several quarantine facilities in the greater Seattle area for those who have been exposed to the virus. The UofW Medical Center has instituted a drive through virus testing center, to limit exposure to heath care workers and to hopefully limit exposure to other patients and members of the public.

As of yesterday, there were 366 confirmed cases in WA state, with 29 fatalities to date.

OT for FOAS: Regarding food banks:

Can 'Expired' Foods Be Donated?

“Expired” foods can be donated.
We had to say it because not everyone knows it. Food items that are past their “best before” dates are accepted and appreciated at food donation stations and food banks across the country. Please help spread the word.

Estimates vary, but each and every year a large percentage of food produced for people to eat in the U.S. goes to waste. When we began in 2011 the estimates of food waste were around 40%, we’d like to think that people are putting a dent in that number so want to believe some of the more current estimates that have come in as low as 25-30%. Even if they are now lower, it’s still too high.

You may be thinking: Is it OK to donate expired food? (and/or) Do food banks accept expired foods? The answer to both questions is an overwhelming “YES!!“. That answer is even backed by the USDA.

Thank-you, Jerzeegirl! Many years ago, there were canned food collections here where they said they'd take nothing past the use by dates, so I've been figuring that was standard. I know cans don't go bad like that, but didn't know that they'd be welcome.

In California, all this is being taken much more seriously. There are a lot of factors involved. They can't shut down all commerce, so many of the public precautions are more about limiting the number of exposure points. They've announced what I surmised, that the point isn't to prevent the spread, which is inevitable, but to slow it down enough that the whole country isn't all sick all at once with no responders or caregivers or clerks or drivers or anyone able to take care of anyone else.

So, large public gatherings are being shut down, most public colleges are shifting to online classes, plans for public schools which are so necessary to the economy for child supervision and food programs (it's already well known that kids who count on school meals go hungry during vacations, which are scheduled and theoretically can be planned for, let alone the danger that just shutting the doors would bring to them), plus, the kids who depend on the food programs don't usually have home internet access so they can't just shift them online. There are plans for closing government meetings and providing alternative citizen input and access, as is required by law. Lots more like that.

Schools are traditionally where diseases spread. Kids bring home the latest bugs to their families. They've been supercleaning the schools and stopping assemblies and other large gatherings, but when have you ever seen school kids 6 feet apart? Public schools tend to be overcrowded anyway, to the point where sometimes there aren't even enough chairs. Getting kids to stop touching each other, let alone closely interacting with each other makes herding cats seem like a doddle. It seems futile.

There are big differences from flu. Yes, flu kills, and sometimes a new strain is different and serious enough to kill or miserableize more people, but it's also true that past exposures to flu viruses and past vaccines can provide some immune response to most strains, which are mutations of old ones. Additionally, this virus is supposed to spread much more easily, though only by droplet, which is why the six feet of social space (yeah, right) is supposed to work, and why not touching your face is so important, because that's where ingress is.

BTW, the "Spanish Influence" (flu) which was a worldwide pandemic that killed a great many people in 1918, I've recently learned, was disseminated from, probably originated in, Kansas. Doughboys caught it at basic training and spread it all over the world on deployment. Sigh.

Well... I need liquid handsoap refills, Lysol Laundry Sanitizer (our clothes tend to become the grandkids' handkerchiefs) and tissues due to an ongoing sinus problem. All the stores are sold out, and Amazon, Walmart & Target all list these items as "not available." GRRR

Thanks, John, for the info!

Edie, wouldn't a bar of hand soap, used as directed for the *right* way to wash your hands, be another option instead of liquid hand soap? As for laundry sanitizer...is there any info about using hot water vs warm or cold water? Sorry about the ongoing sinus problems!

Sooz, at this point I am just praying that the Lysol factory cranks up production before I have to start throwing away clothes. A lot of my clothes can't be washed in hot water :-( and I'm afraid of what comes home on my clothes - my DIL is an ER nurse and my grandkids are sick a lot.

I don't think germs and virus can survive the detergent washing, rinsing and spin draining cycles, then high heat drying with all loose particles blown outside of your house.

dcarch

Can 'Expired' Foods Be Donated?

“Expired” foods can be donated.
We had to say it because not everyone knows it. Food items that are past their “best before” dates are accepted and appreciated at food donation stations and food banks across the country. Please help spread the word.

thx. that is good to know. in past yrs I've thrown out some canned goods that had expired. I didn't think they'd take them. I don't use them but I also have a compromised immune system. now I'll give them away and let others decide. I also know they are good past the date stamped on them but didn't want to take any unnecessary chances with my already compromised health. a healthy person really shouldn't have that problem. A few decades ago I would have used them.

I'm not doing any real stocking up or staying home because of the virus. I avoid crowds usually anyway. I don't go out much either and I usually stay home if it is raining or will rain. I usually have enough TP, PT, cleaners etc for the coming 2-4 wks. I was surprised to hear of the shortages on the news. I guess next time I'm out I'll buy some if they have it, in case the next time I'm out they don't.

I don't know how many cases of this stuff we have in the state but my county has 3 - all in the same family. it's a very large county.

None in my county yet, but two of the neighboring counties each have a case, both of whom had just returned from "international travel". All K-12 schools in Michigan are closed for 3 weeks. Our local university has gone to on line classes only. I skipped the liquid soap and just bought a bunch of Dial bars, that's what I use anyway, even on my face. I have a brand new gallon of bleach too, so I'm good. I'm not shaking hands, though, since it seems that everyone is out of toilet paper!

Annie

All schools, universities and nurseries closed here from Monday. The over 70s to stay home where possible. Not as bad as Italy yet. Shops still full of loo paper though lol

Edie, I'm crossing my fingers for you about the Lysol factory!!!

Thanks for the “expired” advice. Any food collection I’ve contributed to has always mentioned the dates. Didn’t know it would be accepted at food banks.

Edie, we use bar soap : ) Messier in a dish, but it works.

For lack of hand sanitizer, I'm now filling a small spray bottle with 70% alcohol, which I spritz on in the car or outside the house, allow to air dry, followed by hand cream.

Last night it was announced a person in our immediate area has tested positive.

Lots of people stocking up on things, but within what I'd call reason. I noticed people buying Lysol or Clorox wipes (limited to 2), large t-paper roll packs, canned goods, and cold and flu remedies. Lots of gloves now stocked. No masks still, no hand sanitizer to be found. Shelves still have all items but those latter two. The only thing I added to my list of preparedness: Stock up on some bottles of gatorade in case of dehydration from high fever and not hospital space. I'd bought a bottle of Acetaminophen in case of fever.

I too, thank you jerzeegirl. I had no idea either. I'd used some expired cans some time ago that I'd read could be used (some can't I also read - I think it was those with tomato in them?)

"The UofW Medical Center has instituted a drive through virus testing center, to limit exposure to heath care workers and to hopefully limit exposure to other patients and members of the public.

As of yesterday, there were 366 confirmed cases in WA state, with 29 fatalities to date." Read this from Gardengal... Smart with the drive-through testing! Your last sentence is sobering to me.

My thoughts are with everyone here. I still have strong hope this virus can be stifled with smart precautions and preventive actions by all.

Number of confirmed cases has jumped to 447. And fatalities statewide to 31.

The high fatality rate is directly related to an outbreak at a senior nursing facility. It accounts for 23 of the fatalities. It is unknown how the center became infected or when but it is now the subject of a federal investigation.

It's getting crazy. Supermarket shelves are bare of toilet paper, bottled water, wipes, paperotwels, cleaners, etc. Strangely the meat and poultry cases are almost empty. I keep a pretty well stocked house with backups for most items so we are fine. We have upped the use of hand santizers and hand washing and are hunkering down at home i.e. no dining out. Grandson's school closed today though not sure for how long so DD and I are splitting the workday. She is working mornings and I am working afternoons. We both can work from home some so when the active 3 year old is napping we work.

DH's business is taking precautions. We have added handsantizers at the counter and throughout the facility and upped our cleaning protocol for the facility and our vehicles. We are limiting contact as much as possible. Employees have been instructed to stay home if they even suspect they might be ill. We are working on the logistics i.e. staffing, compensation for sick employees beyond their normal paid sick time, protocols for limiting customer contact, etc. We provide emergency reponse services so we cannot close.

On the news just now they said that the Los Angeles school district (2nd largest in the country, with a very high proportion of low income families) is closing for at least two weeks. They're opening centers that will provide long hours supervision and meals, which are important for a lot of those who already have been in precarious economic status. The long hours at the centers will help considering the before and after school programs that are also cancelled, and moving the kids around to various off campus programs just increases the circulation of potential contagion. They're providing learning programs, as well as online and on public TV lessons. So far no kids or parents in the schools have been diagnosed with the virus, though some private school parents have tested positive. No one has mentioned what the other districts are doing. A retired friend subs at one of the smaller ones, and she's had principals --ETA to finish missing part of sentence-- she's had principals calling begging for subs, but it's likely that the other school systems will follow L.A I heard that this was pushed by the teachers' union.

It's been heavily raining all across SoCal, and is supposed to rain all next week. We need the water, especially in snowpack, but we don't go out if the rain if we can help it, so even though it's late, it's a good thing. :)

Going out to get a couple bottles of multi-vitamins.

Who knows how long this thing will last, and what kind of food supply will be available.

dcarch

John, what a kind and thoughtful response to this crisis. I hope your organizing is very successful.

John, I love this! I might put it out on Nextdoor to our neighborhood, mostly elderly!

John, that is a very good idea. I do Mother's shopping anyway, and cook for her. I do worry because my brother likes to go to the casino, where there are a LOT of people and he lives with my Mother. She refuses to come to my house, she wants to stay in her own home and I understand that, so I just worry about it as I can't do anything else.

I went to pick up her groceries today and the shelves were empty. Even the cat food her cat likes was gone. They were restocking toilet paper but people were buying it as fast as they could put it on the shelves. Meat cases were full but I bought the last big bag of mozzarella cheese because all the grandkids are out of school for the next three weeks and I figured we'd make pizza. No boxed macaroni and cheese, no canned or dried beans, no flour, no milk, no toilet paper, no pasta, no canned tuna, no canned soup. I bought the last package of her favorite raspberry greek yogurt. I didn't look for hand sanitizer, I figure I can wash my hands with soap and wipe down the counters with the old bottle of Everclear Mother has stuck in the back of her liquor cabinet. And, oddly enough, no Diet Coke. Really? Hoarding Diet Coke? Aldi had a limit of 4 for all canned goods.

I also managed to buy a couple of jars of the expensive peanut butter (the cheap stuff was gone), some granola bars, juice boxes and several boxes of cereal for our local food pantry. A large percentage of the kids are below the poverty level and depend on the school's food program, the food pantries are already seeing a big jump in requests for assistance since those kids will all be at home for the next three weeks.

Annie

Annie, do you, in your position, have any sway with the schools. Maybe they could have a food center? If not for meals, maybe to distribute some ingredients to the kids who would have eaten them?

Anyone watched yesterday the White House "National Emergency" press conference ?

A large crowd of reporters packed closely together, with only one microphone passing from one reporter to another asking questions to the panel of experts at the podium.

I would assume the microphone, less than one inch away from the shouting mouths, would be completely covered with spit.

Amazing! Not one of the many medical infectious disease experts noticed the situation.

dcarch

Let alone the idiots up front shaking hands and standing close. The “experts” TOOK PART as the message is supposed to be about social distancing. It didn’t go unnoticed.

It is really hard to watch. In a cold climate, when below freezing, just look at your breath, the water vapor is a cloud. Or blow up a ballon. The entire inside walls are wet. That cloud of breath will eventually fall, all over surfaces.

Or a wind sheer picks it up outdoors, like chemical fertilizer that destroy organic gardens...on a calm day. Tomato plants are especially sensitive.

FYI. The NYTimes has lifted its paywall for COVID updates. I have found it a less panicked news source. Article on hoarders that were price gouging on Amazon.

link, HERE

That is just profiteering!! In war time, it was a prosecutable offense and it should be now as well. Making money off of others' hardships is just a rotten thing to do.

I hope the guy loses money on that stockpile.....would serve him right!

Here's something that totally ticked me off! On the NextDoor app, some lowlife was advertising 8 ounces of 60% isopropyl alcohol in small plastic spray bottles for $20 each, but you had to purchase in increments of 3 bottles. I guess s/he thought they'd make a bundle of cash.

First of all, it's price gouging, and secondly, 60% isopropyl alcohol isn't likely to made much of a difference on those little wee invisible beastie germs since 70% to 90% is recommended for specific disinfecting of specific things. Thankfully, this "ad" was removed rather quickly. Wish I had caught the name of the parasite so I could put it on my "people to avoid on ND" document.

BTW, 32 oz of 70 percent is usually under $3.

It should be punishable by law. Amazon has had a busy couple weeks trying to keep up with the bad sellers and price gouging. Thousands of sellers they have been kicked off.

Our work went dark yesterday. We will finish up Wednesday with limited employees just to wrap things up. Very happy about it. We will spend some time home then up to the mountains for a few days or a week.

We will eat good. Try new recipes, bake bread. Made condiments last night, bone stock today, big batch of soup tomorrow for the freezer and delivery to a few neighbors. We have three elderly, one recluse we have never met. but one neighbor has met her. She will deliver.

I tripled my macro salad greens a few weeks ago. Starting a few trays every 2-3 days. My pantry looks like a commercial grower. With about 30 pounds of seed and 20 pounds of RanchoGordo beans/grains I think we are good. Steve Sando from RG e-mailed that he went from 150-200 orders a day to 1,000 last week and is backed up. We have been lightly packing our road trip crates for a trip to Newfoundland in a few weeks. So hope we do not need to cancel. Once there it is remote so we take spice blends, beans/grains/seeds, and lots of salad seed.

plllog, I have no pull with anyone in this Township position, other than the township. We have 433 registered voters, and the school is in the next County. I've beenencouraging everyone to donate to their local food pantry. We do have something called "The peanut butter and jelly project", and they send backpacks home with the kids on weekends with things like juice boxes, granola bars and a jar each of peanut butter and jelly. Our prior clerk was a 4th grade teacher until she retired and her husband owns a local real estate office. His office issued a challenge to the other real estate agencies in the area. I don't know the total, but his office managed to collect 783 jars of peanut butter and matching jelly. the real problem is getting it to the kids, most of them are very rural and some are 20 or more miles from the food pantry, which distributes those donations. Meals on Wheels is already swamped delivering meals to the elderly and infirm, but Elery suggested that the busses should be utilized, making their usual routes and dropping food boxes in lieu of picking up children.

A lot of people smarter and more connected than I am are working on the problem, so that makes me feel somewhat better.

Annie

Just popping in to say you and SWMBO are extraordinary people, John : )

John that is wonderful. Bless you!

John you are the best!

Price gouging is illegal in California and when it first started popping up the governor made a big deal about prosecuting those who tried, both directly and online.

The kicker, however, is that there are some businesses who have always listed some goods for outrageous prices on Amazon. Some have the last of a discontinued product, going for supply and demand pricing. I've bought my mother's favorite lipstick that way. The prices weren't unreasonable for her to get what she liked. Other times, I've seen a current produce from a marketplace dealer listed for at least 10 times the normal price. I don't know if that's a typo or some scammer trying to get people to push the button without chicken the price and making a bundle--though I doubt the latter for a gallon of floor cleaner. Most likely for that kind of thing is that they don't really want to sell and ship that item, but don't want to take down the listing, which they may use as a payment center for special customers who are really getting a case or something, or it helps their inventory control systems, or other such indirect uses. So they leave it as an inactive stub, and if someone really wanted to pay $239 for a bottle of floor cleaner, they'd be willing to bother to ship it.

This was posted yesterday. I'm looking for the article link.

Here it is, link, HERE

They seem to have lifted their paywall. The Atlantic.

Seems some our cross post neighbors are not taking this seriously.

At 52 in our State, with one in close proximity testing positive now. Obviously more than that. DH cannot take time off from work because he’s in charge of keeping high speed internet going in our area and the surrounding counties. So many rely on the internet at this time, not just for supplies and communication with family and friends. Our physicians’ offices, hospitals rely on it. He’s trying his best to reduce exposure, but it’s impossible with others working in close proximity and dealing with the public constantly. Me? I’m going to the grocery store one last time tomorrow, my one mask and gloves in use. Going early in hopes of avoiding as much exposure as possible. After that I’m taking advantage of curbside pickup. DH and I are in the high-risk group, for several reasons.

I reached a saturation point yesterday. Over-stressed and anxious. Closed the tv room door, turned on my favorite soft guitar music while cooking a nice dinner and my overall well-being drastically improved. Next non-rainy day I’ll work in our vegetable garden, prepping it for spring planting - the onions already planted last weekend. I think it’s important to try to keep stress levels down, to both relax and be active even if self-isolating. To retain as much normalcy as possible, and to do what one can for others in need. And to take measures where able not to cause possible spread.

I would say most are now taking this seriously… but we live in a tourist town, and one major draw are the shopping malls. DH said they were packed yesterday. Packed. I cannot fathom this.

Just read. Two postal workers are tested positive in our area.

So glad that I have a UV germicidal system to sanitize all incoming mail as well as all packages.

dcarch

There's just so much misinformation out there. The wipes are mostly ineffective. At TJ's they were handing one to each shopper, which might have helped a little with stuff people touched, but could have just made it easier to spread.. Washing properly with ordinary soap and hot water is most effective. Washing with vigorous friction for long enough under running water, even if the water itself isn't so clean and there's no soap, is about 95% effective against bacteria, but I don't know if it's as effective against viruses. Nothing works as well as staying away from carriers. Inevitably, almost all of us will get this at some point. The point is to keep the numbers of getting it all at once down.

so, what would we do differently - 20/20 hindsight - one month into this? what have we learned, besides buy more TP

Don't get sick (not COVID-related) ... Unless you really are into being stuck in a hospital bed with no visitors for days on end. That was dreadful. Makes me understand what folks with little-to-no family who are in nursing homes feel and I have decided once this is over to contact one of our local homes to see if I can "adopt" someone.