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aglitter

Asking Cabinet Builders: Repairable Waterborne Finish & Drawer Depths

Aglitter
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago

The renovation on our small kitchen is coming down to two main remaining questions, cabinet finish and drawer sizing. While I realize these questions would be more relevant on Woodweb, Sawmill Creek, or some other woodworking forum, enough experienced builders hang out at Houzz that I wanted to post here. Questions are as follows:

  • If you're of the conclusion that only factory-applied, heat cured, post-catalyzed conversion varnishes are acceptable for kitchen cabinetry, then this probably isn't the post for you, though I do appreciate all the input you may have given on other threads to this effect. Our situation is that we need a repairable finish. One of our cats likes to scratch wood; declawing isn't an option we're willing to consider at this time, and we will try to keep him off the new cabinetry with a gate to the area, but in the event of a mishap, we need our finish to be reasonably spot repairable, and conversion varnish isn't a good candidate for this. We'd also like a non-yellowing, non-amber finish. This will go on unstained cherry. We're currently looking at Milesi Wood Coatings which has several options for 2K waterborne varnishes that exhibit a good degree of chemical and moisture resistance. Renner also seems to be a supplier of similar products, perhaps more readily available in the US than the Italian Milesi. ICA Coatings also gets great reviews but is almost impossible to obtain in the US, it seems. We tested Waterlox, see photo with 6 coats that turned cherry an undesirable orange color due to the tung oil component, and we're reading on other threads primarily about flooring about non-yellowing finishes from posters like @SJ McCarthy that any oil-based finishes will yellow in time. Epifanes has some great coatings that are easily repairable, primarily for outdoor use, but they yellow in time due to oil components, and we won't be stripping and refinishing kitchen cabinetry as often as a boat owner would who is the primary Epifanes user. The durable, non-yellowing waterborne finishes like Bona Naturale for flooring have added hardeners and slip-resistant additives that make them less than ideal and difficult to use for cabinetry with too flowing of consistencies to spray vertically without runs. So, that's a summary of my research. I'd be leaning toward Milesi 2K waterborne, but if anyone has more insight, I am eager to hear it. Buildable, brush-on or spray-on finishes are both candidates, as are both gloss or matte surfaces. See our lovable but scratching-prone cat and the Waterlox testing on quartersawn cherry below.



Disregard the dark line; it was a pre-existing flaw in the wood. Waterlox is on top, untreated cherry below.

  • Second question is, with framed cabinetry construction, is a 14 1/2" high drawer by 33" wide likely to rack? These drawers will have undermount slides rated for 100 pounds per pair. My manufacturer says that I'll be fine with these dimensions, but I'm a bit concerned because I do have some tall, heavy items to store in these drawers, and wanted to put it out there for the Houzz community for comment. One of the deep drawers will have drawer dividers. The image below is not quite as wide or high as our 14 1/2" high x 33" wide x 22" deep (approximately) drawers would be. We don't want to exceed the mechanical recommendations. The deep drawers can be switched to 24" or 28" wide if the 33" wide is risking it. Again, this will be for framed cabinetry. Thanks!



Comments (20)

  • chispa
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    My old kitchen had a frameless 48" 3-drawer base, of low/med quality, that was around 18 years old and had no issues with the wood or drawer construction. The low quality slides weren't working great.

    I now have 30 - 36" drawers with heavy items and have had no problems with those. All frameless, euro style, to maximize storage space.

    Aglitter thanked chispa
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  • bry911
    4 years ago

    Any of the advanced 1K or 2K finishes will be “repairable”.

    These are actually the most difficult to repair. In fact, impossible would be fairly accurate.

    Oils are repairable and they yellow. I don't really have a good suggestion, although you might try a C.A.B. acrylic and see.

    Aglitter thanked bry911
  • live_wire_oak
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Anything is repairable. You just might not like how the repair looks. It may look patched and repaired.


    Cabinets are fine furniture for your kitchen. They are built and finished without repairability being upmost as a criteria. Surfaces that are subject to hard wearing conditions are generally built with metal rather than wood, or they are less expensively built, and done as disposables. The middle route of creating a surface subject to damage and repair time and again, is one that is the most expensive and most frustrating.


    You’re asking the wrong questions here. The question you should be asking is what materials will withstand abuse better than wood cabinets. That’s going to be Medex, Corian, or steel. Look at cabinets built for outdoor kitchens. I think St Charles is building steel cabinets again.

    Aglitter thanked live_wire_oak
  • Aglitter
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    @User Thank you for contributing your expert advice both here and in many other helpful threads. If you see Sophie, please pass along my best wishes for health and happiness and my appreciation for the archive of comments left here which have helped me so much with kitchen renovation planning. Thank you for reaffirming what I'd seen elsewhere, that 2K is more environmentally friendly than the conversion varnishes that have been the standard in the past. That alone makes me want to steer away from conversion varnish. It makes sense as you said that 2K is going to be on a similar level of difficulty in repair as CV with first treating the area for damage, feathering out previous varnish, and re-coating the entire piece. Some cats like wood. My current cabinets are shredded. We'll be installing a gate, and the sticky tape on the tops of ledges and corners is a great idea, one we had considered. Hadn't known about orange oil, but it's worth a try, thanks. We have a scratching post near the current cabinetry, but that's not always enough of an alternative. The cat scratches mainly when we are preparing his wet food in the kitchen, so we're also thinking about preparing his food outside the kitchen. After our Waterlox testing was a failure, I thought I had a finish guy lined up, one my cabinet builder has collaborated with extensively in the past, but he only uses 3 coats of pre-cat CV from Sherwin Williams and maybe some kind of lacquer furniture final coat. I've heard of some pre-cat CV yellowing, chipping, and cracking at the 5- to 10-year mark. He hadn't heard of 2K finishes, and when I found out his warranty is just 3 years, I decided to continue my research. Yes, I didn't want to get too lengthy in my dimensional explanations, but the opening is 14 1/2" with 1 3/8" of that vertical space taken up by clearances, drawer bottom, and undermount glides. Final interior width is probably a little under 28" with some extended stiles for filler spacing. Thanks so much for your reassurance about the depth and width tolerances. I'd previously worked with a high-end frameless manufacturer that wanted to severely curtail my maximum drawer depth for wide drawers due to racking risks so just wanted to double-check with experts here going forward with framed. To make a long story short, frameless was our first choice for cabinetry, and we worked with a high-end company on pricing over the summer, hoping to place our order there. In the end we switched to framed with a smaller area shop as it put us back within budget and made the best sense for the challenges we faced with an almost circular or relaxed G-shaped layout that couldn't be altered and would have placed filler pieces between essentially every vertical cabinet edge in a frameless layout, clearances which are now incorporated in the stiles and blend with the design. If I ever have a future project with a bigger budget, I'd definitely be considering all the construction options again. Thank you again for your help!

    @chispa Thanks for your comments. I've heard of people going up to 48" drawers in modern designs, and some manufacturers are building specialty glides for those super wide drawers, but the binding and racking problem is something that needs to be double-checked in relation to drawer depth before finalizing any layout. Thanks for your input.

    @bry911 Your comment nails my problem here, "Oils are repairable and they yellow. I don't really have a good suggestion, although you might try a C.A.B. acrylic and see." Yes, a long-oil finish like Epifanes suits so many of our desires for this project, but after reviewing many photos of this finish after years of wear, I can see the yellowing setting in, and we're not eager for that look in the kitchen. Thanks for reminding me of CAB acrylic. I've seen that mentioned for durability and will research it more. The key is probably just trying to keep the cat off the cabinetry.

    @live_wire_oak Thanks for all the time you've spent in these forums. I've benefited from many of your comments while doing research in other threads and appreciate your taking to reply to me here. The idea that we needed doors made from aluminum, stainless steel, porcelain, Corian or dense foam cabinetry like NatureKast meant for outdoor use was foremost in my mind when starting this research for the kitchen. Yes, I'd seen that St. Charles is back in business with upscale metal cabinetry--gorgeous products with prices to match! Christopher Peacock is even putting out metal-covered doors, and many other industrial kitchen suppliers offer metal cabinetry. The renovation was initiated by a large water leak so was not something I had the luxury of pre-planning for years on end, however, I did due diligence over a period of half a year trying to find an impervious surface where we wouldn't need to worry about pet claws. What it boiled down to is that my husband didn't like any of the non-wood materials even after touring some of the supplier showrooms in person to see them, and since he was funding the purchase, I went with what he wanted. This particular cat is about halfway through his lifespan, and the cabinets will long outlast him, so we'll be doing things to keep him off the cabinetry and may, as you indicated, need to compromise with the best furniture finish we can obtain and hope it won't need repairing. At this point, I am as much concerned about yellowing, flaking, and chipping in time as I am about any repairs that may or may not be needed. We missed our chance to get a factory finish since we already placed an order for unfinished cabinetry and thought we would be using Waterlox, something that I'd seen done by many other shops with photos online, but our in-person testing produced an overtly orange hue, something we weren't fully prepared to see even after reviewing photos of this finish. Osmo and other brands of oil/resin/wax finishes seem like they would produce a similar orange tint, and wax alone like Renaissance isn't a good furniture finish for a ktichen area due to lack of moisture resistance. We'll be considering a variety of options going forward for third-party finishing and hope to find the best product. Thanks again for all your input.

  • bry911
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Now that I am actually at a computer I can give you some more input.

    So here you have my 2 cents...

    Some of the fervor over super hard and durable coatings is overblown. Yes, they are better, but marginally so. Many people treat any coating that is not the absolute latest improvement as worthless and that is far from accurate. Nothing out there is going to survive rough treatment and as you are finding the most durable coatings have significant repair problems once damaged. Both 1 and 2 part poly's set on top of the wood which is the worst thing to repair, the more penetrating a finish is, the easier the repair is.

    I have taken some criticism for my love of lacquer, it isn't the coating I typically use today, but it is the coating that I learned to paint with and it is very forgiving. You have to understand how to use a retarder, but once you have that basic part figured out, it is very hard to mess up a lacquer. It is also incredibly repairable and pretty durable. This is one of the reasons that cabinetmakers will still use lacquers today, there is a solid contingent of local custom cabinetmakers who lean into the repair game, they believe that no coating is durable enough for a kitchen and having something they can repair easily is worth the small hit on durability. I neither subscribe to, or oppose, that opinion.

    I also happen to love Cherry and for a while worked extensively with it. In fact, I have about 5,000 board feet of Cherry in my shop right now. Looking at your picture of waterlox and how you are not a fan of the coloring, are you going to appreciate the color change of Cherry to a red? If you are not a fan of reddening over time then you are going to want a UV coating to slow it down, you will not stop it, but you can slow it.

    ----

    If you came to me and said, I want UV protection and repairability, I would probably grab a C.A.B. acrylic with a UV additive. I have used the SW Acrylic Conversion Coating (a C.A.B. acrylic), which is great and UV resistant, but I would have to look a lot further before I sprayed it in my home. In general if you are going to spray any lacquer inside, you want a LOT of ventilation and you want to turn off all pilot lights. A quick glance at the SW Acrylic Converstion Coating's SDS seems to be those same precautions but I would need to look at the catalyst and retarder before I even considered spraying it in a home that people lived in.

    There are so many variations on standard coatings it is hard to offer input on anything other than the general properties of a finish type. I prefer ICA right now but access is spotty at best and I would not reach for it given the information you have provided.

    The key is probably just trying to keep the cat off the cabinetry.

    I got a cat recently as a "gift" from an evicted tenant... The cat often gives me a look that seems equal parts sympathetic and dismissive right before doing exactly what I don't want her to. It is the very same look my wife occasionally gives me before ignoring me. Good luck keeping the cat off the cabinetry.

    Aglitter thanked bry911
  • yeonassky
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    I hung things that bothered the cat on the doors of my cabinets. It impeded his scratching ability and he moved on. I made him a long carpeted board as he is very tall and he has appreciated that.

    The things I hook on to my cupboards would not look attractive to most people's eyes. An old bulletin board, a picture frame without any glass just a soft picture in it a wreath excetera excetera. When I having guests it all gets taken down. He immediately goes back to try to scratch on it so it gets hung back on again. It's the only thing I found that keeps him away from my cupboards and trim work.

    Aglitter thanked yeonassky
  • Aglitter
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    @bry911 Your last paragraph makes me smile. You're right; cats are smart. They'll always figure out a way to do what they want while looking at you so endearingly with those big eyes. That's why I was hoping to reach a decision on a finish with some degree of repairability, just in case the cat defeats the barriers I plan to install in the new kitchen.

    Wow, that's so much helpful information on the technical aspect of the finishes, thank you! I'll take a closer look at lacquer with a retarder, as that sounds like it might have some potential for our application, especially if we could find a brushed-on finish that would lend itself more to repair. I'll also check more into the CAB coatings from Sherwin Williams that you mentioned. This is new cabinetry not yet installed, so unless we find a special brushed-on finish that would lend itself to being done in the home, a sprayed coating will be done off site before installation.

    We are prepared for the cherry wood to age into a dark orange hue. The problem with the Waterlox is that it added a lot of orange right off from the tung and linseed oil components, and after enough coats to build a decent protective film, looked like a mess ruining the beautiful cherry grain. I've seen mention elsewhere of pigmented oils that provide a UV barrier underneath a top coat like Epifanes to keep wood from turning that orange or yellow straw color depending on the species, but we weren't interested in obscuring the natural grain or coloration of the cherry. Finding a clear coat that had UV inhibitors would be a better approach, I think.

    One of the reasons, in fact the main reason, we picked cherry aside from the beauty of it is that it is one of the more stable woods, and we have a lot of humidity in our environment. I agree with you based on my own research that the "hardness" of coatings is an overblown consideration at least with kitchen cabinetry. The harder the coating, the more it needs to be applied to a stable substrate like plywood or MDF to avoid cracking with humidity variations. The more flexible finishes like spar varnish are soft but don't crack with moisture-induced wood movement which is a fabulous quality. In our situation, our kitchen is about 30 feet away from a creek that keeps the area humid year round, and with solid cherry wood doors, they are definitely going to be moving with the weather--even if somewhat less than the notorious warpers and twisters like maple--so a softer coating would have its advantages. The circle of reasoning comes around, though, because although spar varnish would flex, it starts out amber and yellows in time. So many decisions.

    Yes, the ICA Group products seem to hold an undisputed reputation near the top of the competition for quality coatings, but I haven't yet been able to locate a reseller serving Texas where I live, so for such a small project, I thought it might be best to move to a supplier where I'd have a chance of getting easier service and more product if needed later on. That's a good way of putting it, that it's hard to offer input on anything other than general categories because so many companies are innovating and creating coatings that don't even fit into a standard category anymore. Not sure if you have seen this, but in August 2018, Woodworking Network published an article announcing Milesi's new Block Chain Addition wood finish that eliminates the typical isocyanides, formaldehyde, and aromatic compounds in favor of a "green" solution via the addition of a new resin that has never before been used in wood coatings. The resulting BCA finish combines properties of both pre- and post-catalyzed polyurethane and acrylic finishes in terms of hardness, abrasion resistance, non-yellowing, non-staining, and fast-drying properties with a long pot life. Milesi has also done some superior work with wood finishes that appear very natural, more on that here.

    We actually have two indoor cats, but only one is a wood scratcher. Plenty of people during our cabinetry research have brought up the declawing issue, but this can be difficult on an animal's long-term ability to function and balance so much that some states in the US have considered legislation to ban the practice, so we're hoping to manage the problem a different way. Thank you so very much for taking time to give such informative replies! This will be extraordinarily helpful for us moving forward with the finishing decisions in about 8 more weeks.

    @yeonassky Thanks for the tips! We'll give your suggestions some thought. Our cat is pretty persistent. He hates adhesive, so I may make clear, sticky covers for the tops of the drawers for starters and see how that goes.

  • bry911
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Since you are not worried about UV protection, I would definitely move from the SW Acrylic Conversion Coating to a regular C.A.B. lacquer.

    Given what I understand about your situation, I would recommend Mohawk's C.A.B. lacquer. It is not my "favorite" coating, or really even my favorite C.A.B. lacquer, but it is a very solid and respected product that is widely available in the U.S. and they make an aerosolized version that is ground shippable anywhere in the continental U.S. and runs between $7 and $10 per can. They have a package life of 3 years, but I really wouldn't push it past two years.

    This would allow touch ups done by you, in your home, and still provide you with a very durable non-yellowing finish.

    Before you have someone put it on your cabinets order a can from https://www.shellac.net/clear_aerosols.html and give it a test (I have not used the website nor am I condoning it, it just popped up in a Google search). Please note: lacquer blows up in high enough concentrations when exposed to an ignition source, so use some common sense. Aerosol cans spraying small areas will have difficulty reaching the required concentration unless you are in a really tight space, but an ounce of prevention and all...

    Good luck

    ETA: This should go without saying, but... this is my recommendation given my experience, your situation is unusual enough that I am pulling from my general experience and knowledge rather than extensive research. I believe my recommendation good, but I won't guarantee it is the best. It also doesn't really meet your requirement for waterborne and you should research the product to be sure you are comfortable with it.

    Aglitter thanked bry911
  • PRO
    Patricia Colwell Consulting
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Instead of making yourself crazy with all the books above feed the cat out of the kitchen , get a spray bottle and a scratching post every time he goes near the cabinets spray and move to post. Where I live even if you wanted to you could not have him declawed . As far a refinishing cabinets no matter what finish you choose spot finishing will never look right and no matter what finish you choose the color will change somewhat over time so a perfect , not going to happen. BTW 48” drawers are too wide and become too heavy when loaded I always use 36” they carry a heavy load and the soft close actually works. I also never like dividers that are permanent in drawers , Idesign does really nice drawer dividers for gadgets, cutlery etc in lots of sizes and shapes mine are15yrs old and still look like new

    Aglitter thanked Patricia Colwell Consulting
  • M Miller
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Here is some cat advice to help prevent the scratching.

    - keep his nails clipped. The longer the cat’s nails are, the more they want to scratch on something. I use a human nail clipper. I find it easier than a specialty cat nail clipper. Make sure not to cut too short or you’ll cut into the quick. I clip my cats’ nails when they are sleepy; I casually do a couple, then wait a few minutes or even to the next day, until all the nails are clipped, particularly the front ones, without fuss or drama.

    - I don’t know what kind of scratching post you have, but most are crap that I see. They’re not tall enough, sturdy enough, and not an attractive material to the cats. There are two on the market that are good, just the two, end of story. Get either the Smartcat Ultimate Scratching Post or the TopCat Scratching Post. Or get both. They may seem expensive, but these two last for years. And they are thousands less expensive than your kitchen cabinets. When you get the new post, don’t do things like push your cat’s paws onto them to get him to use it. Instead, rub the post with cat nip. Also, run your fingernails on it yourself to make a scratching sound and attract your cat’s attention; then walk away. Don’t avidly watch the post to see if your cat uses it; that is a sure way to make him not use it. Cats!

    - Cats hate aluminum foil more than anything. Hang aluminum foil on the front of your cabinets until your cat loses the habit of scratching on them. I guarantee the aluminum foil will keep the cat away.

    Aglitter thanked M Miller
  • PRO
    GannonCo
    4 years ago

    Any coating is repairable its how and how much its going to cost. To set up and spray a catalyzed coating is going to be expensive. Problem is they would stand up better to the cats actual claws better. Durability of a finish is not always related to so called hardness. You can have a flexible but very doable 2 part coating you are wrong assuming the two aren't obtainable.. ANY coating you put on wood will alter its color end of story.


    Your not going to want to hear this but your never going to be happy. If your over thinking a simple finish I couldn't imagine you ever being happy with this kitchen. When I see someone writing that much and driving themselves that crazy over a simple out of their control finsish anybody who accepts that job would be insane. Sorry but you have to accept life happening and it's a kitchen not a work of art.


    Cherry changes color fairly quickly so any coating you apply after sanding off this change will stick out like a sore thumb.


    For a natural wood face you can use a simple wipe on poly or oil from General Finishes. This will allow you to simply take out a rag and wipe a new coat on. Getting the color to match will take a some amber shellac and then the wipe on. The finish with the least amount of mil build is always the best for a susbstrate that moves. You want a product that impregnates the wood vs sits on top of it. There are many ways to obtain this and your cabinet guy will choose what works for them. It takes many trials and errors to find that perfect finish and I know Im not going to hand that over to anyone just like they wont.


    As far as the drawers again let your cabinet guy worry about selecting the right slides. They make them to hold hundreds of pounds and 3/4 construction or even 1/2 will hold a 100lbs with ease. They know what works with their construction methods. You saying here use this isnt going to work well it might alter their entire way of building a cab carcass.


    Find a cab mfg you like and explain you want a wipe on finish and your done.



    Aglitter thanked GannonCo
  • jdesign_gw
    4 years ago

    Its depends on what you mean by "repairable". If the damage is deeper then the top clear coat then thats a whole different situation. Just smooth sanding the clear coat and applying a fresh coat isnt a big deal. I almost exclusivly use ICA so I cant speak to all other products or products available in your area.

    Aglitter thanked jdesign_gw
  • live_wire_oak
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    You don’t want red orange. But you‘ve chosen cherry, which is naturally red orange, and changes to even more so. You have to take active measures to bleach and stain it for it to not do what comes naturally. ???????

    Why not maple, oak, alder, ash, pecan, mesquite, walnut, or any one of a dozen woods that won’t redden into the actual natural cherry color that is objectionable to you? This is a bit like picking a Corvette for your new car, but driving it in a 15 mph bumper to bumper work commute that messes with the oxygen sensor and causes you to have service work. You don’t need the overkill of cherry, especially if you don’t want it to really end up looking like cherry looks.

    You want “home repairable” and “durable”, but those two have almost zero intersection in professional coatings on a Venn.

    Maybe move down to homeowner grade coating options. You might as well just buy something like Emerald, in the deep base, with no added pigment, and just brush finish them all yourself. It has good self leveling, which is one key to getting a blend on a repair. It’s available off the shelf, without having to either special order, or fear your only leftover bits go bad, cure in the can, or otherwise become unusable.

    It will be decently durable in a household of adults, and the areas where the bad cat does what the bad cat does will be able to be scuff sanded and recoated. But that is ONLY if the claws have just scuffed the finish, and not gone down into the wood. Because if they have, any sanding you need to do will expose the cherry that hasn't changed color.

    Which is why I think you need a wood with less photoreactivity. Or at least one that’s a bit harder than cherry, and also doesn’t change to the colors that you find objectionable. Like maple, oak, or ash. Quarters sawn or rift sawn oak has a beautiful grain. Maple’s grain is subtle but also is available in things like curly maple, spalted maple, and other specialty selections. Ash also has a beautiful grain, and is extremely hard. It’s used for baseball bats! That ought to withstand cat claws!

    Aglitter thanked live_wire_oak
  • Sammy
    4 years ago

    I’m surprised no one (at least that I have seen during my quick skim through the comments) has mentioned Rubio Monocoat.

    Aglitter thanked Sammy
  • live_wire_oak
    4 years ago

    That’s because it isn’t even a good flooring coating. Despite the marketing hype.

    Aglitter thanked live_wire_oak
  • M Miller
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Wow, someone removed my post in this thread. I cannot figure out why. I gave the OP tips on preventing a cat from scratching the cabinets so that her next cabinets don’t suffer the same fate. They were recs for good scratching posts, how to attract the cat to the scratching post, and how aluminum foil can be used to deter a cat from scratching the cabinets. How is that offensive?

    Aglitter thanked M Miller
  • Aglitter
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Thanks everyone! I'm traveling over the next day and will try to reply better when I'm back. @jdesign_gw and @bry911 Thanks so much for the suggestions and mentions again of ICA; we will look further into a supplier. I've seen ICA mentioned on woodworking forums as a "problem solved" type of answer for anyone seeking the highest quality coatings. The spray can idea from @bry911 is intriguing, and we'll consider that, thanks, along with explosion-proof fans if we decide to go the route of setting up our own spray booth. Do either of you have a favorite ICA coating that you'd reach for in doing a natural wood finish?

    To further clarify my position in giving and asking for detailed information, we're not perhaps the average renovators, having designed and done the structural, plumbing, venting, and electrical modifications ourselves in 4 rooms, a project initiated by a large water leak. We'll be installing the kitchen flooring and cabinetry ourselves, and as for finishing, my husband and I have between us a few house and car paintings both with spray gun and spray can media, so we are acquainted with runs, adhesion issues, dust prevention, and are aware that a cabinetry project is no small endeavor and would require new tools and skills. The final decision hasn't yet been made as to whether to contract a finisher or not, so we are taking in all the advice we can at this stage and appreciate everyone's knowledge here at Houzz. Since we plan to stay in this home indefinitely, we're taking time with research of each element of the renovation.

    I'll reply directly to more of your suggestions in a couple of days. Thanks everyone, and @M Miller what kind of scratching post did you recommend? Maybe there was some technical error with your earlier post.

  • new-beginning
    4 years ago

    stick on nail coverings for cat's nails, clip the points (just the very tips) off the cat's nails, how tall will the gate be that is gonna keep the cat out of the kitchen? (Cat owner of very many years, including Miss Kitty who is determined to scratch a hole all the way thru a 'reclaimed' piece of furniture!)

    Aglitter thanked new-beginning
  • Aglitter
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Here's an update, and thanks again for everyone's helpful replies!

    @M Miller What do you know, but your old post has appeared belatedly! Houzz can be mysterious sometimes. I did look up and bookmark your two suggestions for scratching posts, and thanks for that plus your other suggestions. That's a great idea about hanging things on your cabinet doors. I'm thinking of creating a whole wall of things outside of the kitchen for the cats to scratch including mounting some of the old cabinet doors they've already shredded since they are accustomed to them. We'll also be using a gate to keep them out of the new kitchen, and I might get a couple of those posts you recommended, too.

    @new-beginning The cat nail covers have fallen off easily the previous times they've been tried in our household, but I guess it's always worth a re-try if nothing else works. Our cats are older and wouldn't jump a baby gate, though they will likely climb around on the overhang side with stools under it and be on the counters when we aren't looking. Hopefully they won't jump from the counters into the kitchen. Thanks for the suggestions.

    @live_wire_oak Thanks for the info. We did in-depth research on all the woods you mentioned except for mesquite and settled on cherry due to a combination of factors including appearance. We've seen several cherry wood kitchen displays in person and are prepared for the color changes over time. The Waterlox multi-layer coating added a fake, plastic-looking orange that we didn't like which might be easier to understand if viewing in person. We did 6 coats on the sample, and 5 to 8 coats would be typically recommended for an application like this on cabinetry. By the way, my Waterlox sample did dry out and harden up since I wrote the original post, so it didn't stay gummy. I should have let it cure more than 24 hours between coats. We're planning to use the spare Waterlox on garage cabinetry and outdoor benches, so it wasn't a total loss to try it out. I've discovered since my original post that Waterlox actually has minimal tung and linseed oil composition and is primarily a synthetic varnish.

    @GannonCo Believe what you like, but my husband and I are halfway through a 4-room renovation and have been blissfully happy with the work completed thus far, we feel in part because we have taken time to explore some non-standard approaches. Cutting short research in this final stretch isn't an option for me personally, but I do appreciate your effort with suggestions.

    In summary . . .

    • 100% tung oil might be something to try, and I plan to test it as it certainly is repairable plus simple in application. (Turns out Waterlox falls more into the category of a varnish than oil.) People who use 100% tung oil get best results by progressively thinning initial layers, sanding in between, and letting each layer cure up to a week for a minimum of 5 layers. Some woodworkers recommend 1 coat per week for a month, 1 coat per month for a year, and 1 coat per year thereafter. We had better be sure we like this before applying, because it is virtually irreversible.
    • The CABINET PAINTING & REFINISHING - DIY & Pros offers resources for purchasing Milesi products in the United States. Shipments are temporarily halted due to COVID-19 crisis supply problems but should eventually resume. My wording about "2K" in a prior post is misleading. Conversion varnish (CV) is two-part (2K) as is the 2K Milesi waterborne coating discussed above. It's been recommended in this linked Facebook group that someone wanting to use the 2K Milesi clear coat as a brush-on eliminate the hardener portion and only use the varnish. Some chemical resistance and hardness will be compromised, but withholding the hardener will allow the varnish to dry more slowly so that it can be brushed. When mixed, it dries so fast that it must be applied via sprayer.
    • Ilva, Renner, and ICA remain good coating options if Milesi's supply problems (from Italy) don't rebound fast enough.
    • Sherwin Williams Industrial Coatings locations (different from your local SW paint retailer) offer the SAYERLACK® HYDROPLUS™ Waterborne Clear finish that is supposed to be good for cabinets. In talking to several pro painters, I learned that they often rely on the Sherwin Williams "water white lacquer" which isn't waterborne as far as I can tell and does yellow some in time but not as much as other lacquers. The Sayerlack (a Sherwin Williams sub-brand sourced from Italy) is a newer and presumably superior product in terms of low-VOC and non-yellowing waterborne composition.
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