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eam44

Fully integrated panel ready dishwasher

eam44
3 years ago

My sister’s Bosch SHV45M03UC has flooded the kitchen for the last time and is moving on to dw heaven. It worked well for exactly three years, and was a pita every year after. She is looking for a fully integrated panel ready dishwasher. I recommend the Asko based on what I’ve read. Her appliance salesman told her that consumer reports rated Asko poorly and she should buy another Bosch. She is actually considering this despite the fact that her Bosch was a major bust.

She’s not considering a Miele because their customer service reputation is so bad. I mentioned the Cove, but it hasn’t exactly gotten raves from those of you who own it. Am I overlooking something? I told her I’d buy a KitchenAid before I’d buy another Bosch. Thoughts?

Comments (17)

  • M
    3 years ago

    Miele DWs supposedly have an integrated drain pan design that prevents flooding. I have no idea how well it works, as I have never heard of a Miele flooding the kitchen. But then, that might be exactly because of this design -- or it could be coincidence.


    In either case, we put drain pans under all of our appliances and had the plumber hook them up so that they'd drain into a utility sink on the floor below (i.e. they have a dry stand pipe). Hopefully, we'll never need this feature. But if we do ever need it, I'll be happy to have planned ahead.

    eam44 thanked M
  • eam44
    Original Author
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    Thanks M. I tiled under the run that houses my fridge with it’s copper water line, and plan to do the same under my dw and sink - I plan to use hardwood everywhere else. The tile can help for small issues, but I’ve not had experience with a full-on dw failure like this one before. Luckily my sister’s kitchen floor is tiled. A dry stand pipe is a fantastic idea.

  • chispa
    3 years ago
    last modified: 3 years ago

    I suggest a Miele DW.

    There have been a few complaints about Miele on the forum, but when you add all of us who responded on the thread who have not had any customer service issues with Miele, they were still worth considering. I have owned 2 Miele DWs and never needed any service for them. No issues with my Miele CSO or built-in coffee machine.

    My only Miele service issues in 9 years have been 2 calls on my washing machine and 2 on my dryer. Miele was very responsive and the techs show up in Miele vans with a large variety of parts to tackle most problems on that first visit.

    eam44 thanked chispa
  • eam44
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Thanks chi. I’ll let her know, but I don’t think I would recommend she choose a Miele. In CLE we have three dealers and one Installer, and I can’t tell which if any of them, offers factory service.

  • chispa
    3 years ago

    Miele even does the installations here in the LA area. I heard some of the issues that were showing up right after delivery were due to poor installation by third parties, so Miele now strongly suggest you have them do the installation. I had 3 Miele techs here when they installed the DW, CSO and Coffee machine.

    eam44 thanked chispa
  • M
    3 years ago

    In the Bay Area, Miele gives you the option of a third-party service technician or of a Miele employee. The latter costs a little more, but presumably all they work on is Miele. So, they should know their product really well -- not that I ever had the need to call them (knock on wood).

    eam44 thanked M
  • eam44
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    Does anyone have a suggestion other than, “buy a Miele,“ because that’s not going to happen.

  • M
    3 years ago

    Does anyone have a suggestion other than, “buy a Miele,“ because that’s not going to happen.


    In general, if you ask about dishwashers, you'll get the following advice: If you want a dishwasher that generally works fine for most people and for years to come, then either get a Miele or a Bosch and make sure it is installed properly. Also, make sure you have an answer for hard water if that's a problem in your area. Untreated hard water and/or wrong choice of detergent is probably the biggest reason people don't like their dishwashers.


    If you are more on a budget and are willing to put up with regular minor repairs, then get a KitchenAid or maybe IKEA's rebadged models. These models don't wash quite as well as the more expensive models, but many people are happy with them and do appreciate the initial savings.


    And finally, if you have specific needs such as dishwasher drawers, then buy from one of the few manufacturers that offer these (e.g. F&P).


    I can't recall the last time another brand has seriously been recommended. Yes, almost every other major appliance manufacturer has dishwashers in their product line up. But with Miele and Bosch on the top end and KitchenAid on the low end you pretty much have all your bases covered.

    eam44 thanked M
  • ulisdone
    3 years ago

    Try the IKEA dishwashers, they wash just fine with the proper detergent, which is no doubt true with all dishwashers these days.

    eam44 thanked ulisdone
  • Maru, 5b
    3 years ago

    What was causing the problem with the Bosch? One model that failed doesn’t mean every model will.

    I have a 16-YO GE Triton XL. The only thing I’ve ever had to replace was the rubber strip on the bottom of the door, not because it was spewing water out but just because the rubber was worn out.

    I did have a water pooling at the bottom problem once but that was because I was washing bottles, the labels came off and ended up in the plastic basket at the bottom. Had to take it out and clean and remember to remove labels when washing bottles/anything.

    eam44 thanked Maru, 5b
  • salex
    3 years ago

    I have had a Bosch 800 series for about 4 years with no issues. It's the panel-ready type and I installed the panel myself (I am my own cabinet maker and designed that run of cabinets so that the DW is fully integrated). Overall I really like the DW.

    DH's biggest fear is a water leak that we can't see, so we also installed a whole-house leak detector with notifications and automatic shutoff. Plus we installed a waterproof mat under the DW (hopefully it's big enough to contain any leaks before the whole-house alarm goes off, IF that ever happens).

    eam44 thanked salex
  • eam44
    Original Author
    3 years ago

    It’s unclear to me what exactly is wrong with the dw. It keeps flooding the kitchen floor and has been doing so on and off for the last three years. The bottom of the machine is often full of water for no apparent reason. Repair men are on speed dial but it has never been truly fixed.

    You are correct Maru, just because one dw failed doesn’t mean they all will, but it doesn’t exactly instill confidence either.

    darbuka and salex, can you explain the auto shut off?

  • M
    3 years ago

    If it doesn't drain, that could explain flooding. Ideally, the dishwasher should never have more water than can fit into the pan. So, at all times it should be safe to open the door. But maybe the appliance got confused on how much water it has filled. That would probably be the first thing I'd ask any technician to check. I don't know how Bosch implements this part, but I assume there must be some sort of float to check for the water level.

    The next part would be look at when exactly it is leaking. Is it leaking after the cycle is done or is it leaking while the machine is washing. If it's the latter, then I'd take a close look at the door seal. I used to own a Whirlpool (I think) dishwasher that would leak whenever I filled too many dishes into the dishwasher. Turns out, when that happened, I usually had one or two dishes that pushed just a little bit too much against the door. The door still seemed to close, but it didn't actually seal 100%.

    On the other hand, if there is no pattern that implicates the door seal, I'd look at the drain pump, the filters, the backflow valve, the airgap (if any), and the high loop (if any). The a fault in the last three could easily explain how water gets siphoned back into the dishwasher and that can certainly cause leaks.

    Leaks are not unheard of in dishwashers. But they are also not a super common occurrence. And I don't recall a pattern of Bosch being implicated any more frequently than any other brand. So, I would suspect either a hidden defect (everybody makes lemons every once in a while) or an installation fault (e.g. lack of high loop).

  • NYCish
    3 years ago

    Thermador? Under the Bosch umbrella. We really like our thermador dishwasher. It is paneled.

  • Maru, 5b
    3 years ago

    There shouldn’t be visible water in the tub after the DW is done. Residual water is down below the tub floor, where the basket and pump are.

    There’s something clogging the DW. In my case (as mentioned in my previous comment), pooling of water on the tub floor was caused by clogging cause by paper labels that accumulated in the basket below the tub floor.

    Also, when troubleshooting this and future DWs, you have to know where the water is coming from in order to find out what’s causing the problem.

  • salex
    3 years ago

    The water shutoff is a separate mini-appliance connected to an in-line valve on your pipes. It senses flow and shuts off the valve if a leak is detected. You can find them for a single pipe or for your whole house. You can also find similar units that do not include a valve but simply notify you when a leak is detected, either through in-line flow monitoring or via a basic analog water sensor.

    With the in-line units, leaks are identified as flows that last abnormally long or are flowing at a higher rate than normal.

    I've had analog sensors, "smart" detectors, and smart detectors with a valve for automatic shutoff. The analogs just beep really loudly if water is detected, and then you need to be home to hear it and take action. The smart detectors notify you of the leak via an app. The smart detectors calibrate to your water usage using an app - usually for a period of about one week - and then monitor flow patterns to detect anything out of the ordinary. The smart detectors with a shutoff will notify you and close the valve (depending on your settings).

    Two that I have used and been impressed with are Grohe with valve and StreamLabs without valve. The whole-house units are not cheap, but as DH says, peace of mind is priceless (they cost less than a single year's home insurance). We were on vacation last week with the StreamLabs unit set to "away" mode, and we got water usage notifications whenever our housesitter used the bathroom (!).

    As Darbuka said, even a single-pipe unit is a good idea with any DW (or clothes washer, etc.). Some DWs also have a built-in shutoff valve if flow exceeds a certain rate - I have not had one of those.