I can't tell you how many times I have as well as customers of mine that have been shafted out of 'so called rebates'.

These typically are not really *rebates* but tax credits.

The tax credit works by first a small list of energy qualifiers that qualify for the tax credit. But the paper work is long and many loop holes within that will wind you up not qualifying for the *tax credit*

Realize these so called *rebates* come long after you have made the purchase, if it turns out you don't qualify well to bad for you. You really need to be a CPA to be sure what you are doing will actually qualify you for the *rebate* or more likely a *tax credit* --- if it's a tax credit, these typically aren't dollar for dollar.

The nitty gritty con game shuffle. Yeah, I've been doing this kind of thing for way too long. I know every con game there is. Plumbing or HVAC.

Oh, there goes Ray --- grasping at straws again. LOL.

In Maine you get an actual check. I get them from Efficiency Maine when I buy front load washers for my apartments. Program is the same one. Administered through the public utility companies.

" Oh, there goes Ray --- grasping at straws again." - Indeed. My thoughts exactly.

@Andrey P -I'm not a structural engineer. However, 2x8 on 24 centers is really minimal structurally. It's not worth the risk of adding the weight. Stick with a 40 gal tank but do replace it instead of trying to get extra life out of that one.

Sorry to drag you down this road only to say stick with the original equipment, but I can't see putting the additional weight in there given that structure.

Ok, the ones you get a rebate check (in the mail) after you buy 'xyz' appliance--- because I have run my own company-- (Owner Operator) for well over a decade now... there's a lot of 'stuff' that goes on behind the scenes in order to make this a 'so called rebate' in the eyes of the consumer.

#it's not really a rebate. You have to realize you have a utility that is working with another company and both of those companies are 'scratching each other's backs'.

OK Ray where is your proof? My word, that's all you got in the end anyway.

Belief is a funny thing. People these days are more ready to believe a lie, than the truth. If you can't handle the God's honest truth, I'm not your guy.

Have fun.

On another note... From Jake--- Sorry to drag you down this road only to say stick with the original equipment, but I can't see putting the additional weight in there given that structure.

Now that's funny Jake. Especially after all this talk about how much money someone will save. LOL.

Ray, it seems like you have had some bad experiences with customer rebates as a HVAC company owner. It is probably a lot of work on your end and sometimes the customer doesn't get the rebate he expected. However we as consumers should take a advantage every tax credit and rebate offered. I do caution people not to buy HVAC equipment or an appliance just because it has a bigger rebate or tax credit. The rebate and tax credit is a favorite sales tactic used by the slick HVAC sales people. Unfortunately many buyers fall for it.

Federal tax credits are actually the easiest way to recoup some money. You fill out the appropriate form to get the credit. Unfortunately the tax credits are currently limited to geothermal and solar equipment.. The good old days of getting a $1500 tax credit for installing a $3500 furnace are long gone.

There is currently a bit a frenzy going on about climate change. This is creating opportunities at the state level to take advantage of energy rebates. For a water heater the rebate has to be very good in order to justify an expensive model.

You go to Home Depot and buy the water heater. Send in the rebate form to Efficiency Maine. Get check in 6-8 weeks. Not seeing where the kick back is. The water heater will be priced the same in NJ store as in a Maine store. Here, my bottom line price on a heat pump water heater would $400-500. YMMV.

This isn't a manufacturer rebate. Many of the rebates are happening from the electric utility itself. Demand management is significantly cheaper for the utility than building peak generating capacity. A water heater which has low power draw over a longer duration contributes less to peak electrical demand (which is expensive to provide).

Yes, it's important to understand the rebates / tax credits / etc. and what qualifies. That said, there are some significant incentives to move from an electric resistance heater to a hybrid electric heater that can change the payback to 18 months.

Unfortunately in the OP's case, the ceiling may not support the extra weight of an additional 10 gal of water, etc.

How many people do you know that spend money only because there is a rebate, tax credit etc?

Only if you are in need of the product does this enticement game work.

How do you find out about it? most of the time it's thru advertising.

Advertising is costly. --- what do you get every month -- the good old utility bill. So the HVAC / Plumbing company goes to Utility --- name your poison... in Texas there are probably 100's of these. They work a deal to provide the HVAC / Plumbing company free advertising thru the utility companies billing. It's not that hard to realize is it?

This is how backs are rubbed so to speak. The rebate --- what ever it is --- is baked into the 'deal'. Outside of getting the 'offer' with your electric bill when it comes could you look for one and find it... sure anything is possible. But the 'offer' or rebate if you prefer is baked into the deal. Regardless of how you come across it.

See, *you* as the consumer are looking at this in the 'micro' form... where as the utility company & HVAC / Plumbing company is looking at the 'macro' form. (IE: the bigger picture)

A manufacturing rebate is entirely different, because the manufacturer may use a rebate as a way to get rid of an over produced product / or a discontinued model.

A tax credit off your tax: say you get a $1500 tax credit. That $1500 reduces your tax, the amount you pay your taxing authority. In Texas we don't have an income tax -- so the only way in Texas would be a federal tax credit.

Regardless which one state tax credit or federal --- the actually dollar value is likely at best worth a few hundred dollars in actual dollars.

I personally installed my own water heater at my home, replaced all plumbing supply pipe a few years earlier. If I knew there was some mass saving in updating the water heater to a heat pump hybrid I could have selected that for around another extra $1000.

I'm also HVAC --- so repairing a heat pump water heater is also in my wheel house down to repairing refrigerant leaks or whatever happens to it... but I know thru vast experience it will never pay for itself.

Again, my total electric bill was $51 last month with the el cheapo water heater & including all other power needs (no gas at my house all electric) --- there is no *headroom* in that electric bill to offer a means to *payback* for that extra $1000 cost.

Install costs for me are just my time. I know from previous experience that el cheapo water heater stands to last in the realm of 15-20 years, without any fuss at all.

You go to Home Depot and buy the water heater. Send in the rebate form to Efficiency Maine. Get check in 6-8 weeks.

That is most likely a manufacturer rebate thru the manufacturer. Probably a discontinued model.

Think costs. Not only advertising, but also the rebate scheme to mail you the check. So in this case the manufacturer themselves went to the utility company to hatch the deal.

It's all big business. You're only looking at the small end of the equation.

*(not that this is necessarily a bad deal. Depends on a variety of factors, like if there are known problems with the model you are buying, etc. --- because I presume the rebate has stipulations as to what you can or can't buy --- as in if you are doing the installing yourself.)

No. Not a manufacturer discount. Maybe you should go the Efficiency Maine website and see that it is not what you have experienced.

No. Not a manufacturer discount. Maybe you should go the Efficiency Maine website and see that it is not what you have experienced.

It's your argument, you provide the proof.

I’m out of this discussion. You are choosing to be difficult and saying that there is no way it is possible and refusing to believe that it could possibly be that it can be that simple. Utility users pay for this program. Having used this program I know how it works.

https://www.efficiencymaine.com/at-home/water-heating-solutions/

I am choosing to be difficult? --- Look I am here of my own free will. Helping home owners to see the 'forest' from the trees. I am not paid to be here. I am not a plumber. This is advice. Take it, leave it, like it, hate it. It matters not one bit to me.

The plumbing advice contained here-in is based upon *my* 30 years of working on and repairing my own homes that I've owned. I am not just a key board warrior, I actually work on and *FIX* homes.

I wanted you to post your proof, because you know where it's at. I am not in Maine, I have never lived in Maine. The rebate you suggest is for Maine only. I am not a psychic, mind reader, magician etc.

So with that out of the way, I will break down the Maine *heat pump* water heater rebate that you posted a link to. Realize this rebate *ONLY* applies to a heat pump based water heater, and in terms of qualifying for this rebate must --- be qualified.

As to what 'qualified' means... and all I can find is that it must be 'Energy Star Rated'. Qualification is important, because if you do this *yourself* --- you may not get the rebate, due to disqualification.

Money it saves you is again dependent upon -- USE. The savings they quote from the link you provided is based upon a 4 person household. The savings they quote is $330 a year. If you fail to perform the maintenance cleaning the filters or your household is less than 4 people -- well sorry, these are 'gotchya' type moments.

Again this is picture above is from the link you provided. I say this not to riddle you, but to prove a point as to why I told you to post your proof. You can't wiggle out of it. Remember, I am not paid to post my opinion here.

The picture above also contains an *important disclaimer* that says: Note: Your costs and SAVINGS, may vary. People do not, categorically do not --- like the truth. This is a dose of reality to you or anyone else. Like it, lump it, hate it... whatever you wish is your choice.

With that said... the rebate thing that I was talking about in how the rebate cost is 'baked into' the deal --- look at the instant rebate side of the equation. You know if you didn't want to gamble in that some how, some way they may choose to 'disqualify' your rebate. Study the picture below....

You could still hire an installer and mail in the rebate, but this may 'lead to disqualification' of the rebate.

Choose what ever makes you happy... this changes nothing to what I posted earlier.

@ Austin Air Companie

I agree with mainenell , you are just being difficult.

It's already been said that you need to understand the terms of the rebate / tax credit /etc. and how that works.

It's already been said that "your mileage may vary" (both more and less).

We have broken down the DOE energy testing methodology and you wanted to question every aspect of it.

We've already said - multiple times - this isn't a manufacture's rebate, it's a utility rebate.

This is all getting a bit ridiculous.

mainenell said that he used the rebate in Maine and it worked great - first person experience.

I haven't used the utility rebate - I've used a federal tax credit on gas tankless - and it went just fine. Again, first person experience.

Choose whatever makes you happy. My whole point is that it is not going to pay for itself. You can apply a rebate if you want to. It still will not - remember the key ingredient for 'savings' = USE.

Statistically average household size in my area is 2.9 people per household. That doesn't add up to savings. But we are getting a $750 rebate. That's savings right?

So 'because I am being so difficult' use a real world example for myself:

I buy a $1299 heat pump water heater at Home Depot. + tax = $1406

if a rebate was available here = 1406 - 750 = $656

Then I will need a condensate pump or some method to get rid of condensate waste water. That is not included in the above cost.

In my case (it's out in the garage) so noise isn't a factor. BUT -- the OP is considering putting this in an attic. Yeah they state noise is an issue.

Air flow? Yep the thing needs air flow to work efficiently. Let's not care about efficiency? then why do what you're spouting?

You have to remember to clean the air filter. Yeah how many times I find a clogged AC filter. Without that it won't run efficiently. Who cares we are getting a REBATE. Like a bug to a bug zapper.

Ray is being too difficult. We are getting $750 rebate who cares?

On the other hand I put in a $359 water heater + tax = $389

My light bill was $51 last month at 11.6 cents per KWH, you know because I am *difficult*.

What's truly ridiculous is at first this was about saving $money$. But now when I have shown the math doesn't add up to actual savings -- it has changed to an argument that is only about Ray.

Notice the 92.33 from the previous month? Yeah I used an awful lot of hot water that month. LOL.

If you truly want to save --- chase after efficiency of what is costing you the most to run.

Because that is the *ONLY* reason my light bill is so low. I live in a 1910 sq. ft. home.

Let's see if the others care to post their electric bills.

I am not sure why posting electric bills is important to this discussion, but here goes anyway. My last electric bill was $106.57. However I have a gas hot water heater.

Comparing the $359 40 gallon 6 year warranty electric hot water heater Home Depot sells in mass quantities to a $1299 50 gallon 10 year warranty hybrid is not a fair comparison. The comparable hot water heater in Home Depot (50 gallon 9 year warranty) is $599.

The state of NJ is also offering a $750 rebate for hybrid hot water heaters. That brings the cost of the $1299 hybrid to $549 plus the sales tax on the $750. The costs after rebates are comparable. I would think the installation costs would be about the same. Given that then the hybrid hot water heater would be more cost effective if the hybrid heater can fit where the current electric hot water is installed.

If your state is willing to subsidize the cost of a more efficient hot water heater, then you should take advantage of it.

Update: I talked to a local WH installer. He said the weight is not a problem. There is a 3/4" board on the joists.

Hybrid is not an option: besides the noise issue that heater is to too big to get upstairs.

They work with State heaters. Are they better than Rheem, Westinghouse?

Get the model number of the heater the installer is proposing. Each manufacturer has a wide range of models. It is difficult to comment without reviewing the product data.

@mike_home, this is the model: https://www.statewaterheaters.com/products/residential/electric/proline/standard/proline-electric-tank-water-heater-en6-50-dort/

They also propose installing moisture sensor with auto shut off valve from Flood Master.

Would it make sense to get a "smart" heater with built in shut off?

Like this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rheem-Gladiator-50-Gal-Medium-12-Year-4500-4500-Watt-Smart-Electric-Water-Heater-with-Leak-Detection-and-Auto-Shutoff-XE50M12CS45U0/309627128

Mike when I said post your electric I was referring to actually posting the bill to show things like cost per KWH and how much energy you're actually using. The whole argument is efficiency but the numbers are inflated to get you to think you are going to save the difference in the extra cost of the Hybrid water heater. Regardless of any rebate you may or may not find. If your place of installation is a basement it is likely much more feasible due to the availability of a floor drain for waste water condensate created by the heat pump water heater. Maintenance costs will be higher for a heat pump water heater... read the fine print further up the thread ---- it's all there. *Ignoring the fine print, doesn't create efficiency or pay for anything*

If you follow install parameters of the Hybrid Heat pump WH you will save some money but the money you do save will vary, for most households we are talking nickels and dimes. Here's another example below of what I mean by inflated numbers. Taken from Andrey P's link that he provided above.

Study this picture below and *read* the fine print. You begin to realize why I am calling the numbers --- erroneous. Inflated to attempt to sell *something*. They even do it on the no name brand water heater tank. WHY?

Ray I get it that you are trying to get people to post their electric rates. The issue is there is a big variation of electric rates (mine is about $0.17 per KWh) and the amount of hot water usage. Most people cannot estimate how much it costs to heat hot water.

In this case you have two water heaters whose purchase price is about the same after the rebate credit. One is advertised to be more efficient. That being the case, there is little down side buying the more efficient model if it can be installed for about the same cost. A detailed energy cost analysis is not required and we don't have to argue about how much money the typical homeowner will save. Yes, the hybrid requires more maintenance, but as you know high efficiency furnaces which generate condensate require more maintenance that ones that operates at lower efficiency. Home owners have been making that choice for the last 20 years, now they can make a similar choice for hot water heaters.

The next time you are in Home Depot, look carefully at the $359 Rheem hot water heater. These hot water heaters are made specifically for the big box stores. The drain valve and control are made out of plastic. The plumbing supply houses don't sell these models. They are fine if you never intend to flush the tank and are happy with a 6 year warranty. In my opinion there is more value going to a pluming supply house and buying a Rheem Professional series model for a little more money. I got over 17 years of life on the last two I installed.

Andrey P, the State hot water heater looks OK. The 6 year warranty is disappointing. Will the moisture sensor do anything else beyond shutting off the cold water valve?

The Rheem hot water has a 12 year warranty and a brass flush valve. It seems better built than the State model. The built in leak detector is a good idea if it works as advertised. Are you able to get a WiFi signal in your attic?

You may be better off with the simple approach of installing the tank in a drain pan and piping it out the attic. You install a flood sensor in the pan to detect any water. This will give you protection if you are away for an extended period of time.

@mike_home, I already have the drain pane with the piping. Adding separate sensor will require putting an outlet next to the heater.

I probably do have wi-fi in the attic, but I hope the auto shut off will work without it (I'm a control freak for network connectivity).

BTW, looks like Rheem is the only maker that provides auto shut off for moisture sensor. Others just beep when sense water.

Running a 120V line over from where the furnace exists should be relatively easy. I not then here is a battery powered leak alarm you can get at Home Depot. It is just extra insurance in the event of a leak.

Given the location, two leak alarms is not excessive. Sensors fail or warnings missed often enough. I had one last year that a household member heard and went "that's weird" and never told anyone (ie me). The backup sensor I got a warning through on my phone - late but not too late - saved me a lot of trouble.

Yeah Mike, I hear you. We can't let anything like facts get in the way.

While your electric rate is high at 17 cents per KWH, you have a gas water heater no?

So again this is like comparing apples to bananas. The whole reason I said to post your electric bills... because it presents facts, rather than speculation.

If you have gas, you should post both the gas bill and your electric bill because that is your 'total cost' of energy. I'm talking facts --- that is what I like to deal with.

Ray, from my most recent bill the total gas charges were $99.58 at an average cost of $0.77 per therm.

Ok Mike you have 106.57 + 99.58 in gas = $206.15 yeah that's considerable 'head room' to save from compared to me... here's a energy email highlight I got just yesterday to compare those figures above to my 'All Electric' situation.

My last electric bill was 66.31 the one before that was 51.67 The difference between them is the heating cost due to the weather.

I live in a 1910 sq. ft home. Built in the late 70's.

Energy efficiency is not a myth, but there's a lot of waste if you don't understand these kinds of parameters. Focus on what is costing you the most money first as those things will give you the greatest payback.

***Things will be changing going forward from here as I signed with a new electric provider that will drop my electric rate from around 11.6 cents per KWH to 10.2 cents per KWH. So the price I pay, will go lower due to lower price of power.

Again, I am not a plumber. I am a HVAC contractor servicing the Katy, Texas area.

I don't understand how all of this relates to applying for a rebate for a hybrid hot water heater.

In most cases a hybrid hot water heater as in a heat pump water heater... will cost more to install. It costs more to buy it, even with a rebate.

Realize I could have installed a hybrid at my house, however I would have had to deal with condensate waste water in some way. Those are additional costs.

You have to 'maintain it'... there are air filters to operate that Hybrid. It's a heat pump.

Where does the water heater sit?

It's going to cool the air around it. So if your water heater is in such a place like a utility closet or something similar --- well this thread doesn't discuss anything about those costs and nuisances.

It's all about saving $750 on a rebate. No discussion about maintenance and trade offs. I'm looking 20 min. down the road. The other is that a heat pump water heater installed in a cold location like an attic probably won't save much if the temperature in that attic drops below 30 degrees. So you have to consider those limitations as well.

This doesn't mean that the hybrid heat pump won't deliver hot water in that instance as I bet it has back up resistance heat strips like a normal run of the mill electric heater.

Yeah while I am not a plumber, I know too much about it.

Ray, if you look back at my previous posts, you will see the cost after rebate for a hybrid hot water heater is less than electric hot water with the same capacity and warranty. Both appliances have two water connections and an 220 V electric connection. I would expect the time and effort to install it to be about the same. A condensate pump may have to be installed if a nearby drain in not available. The hybrid may cost more to install, but that is also true for 90% AFUE furnaces. It is part of the cost of a higher efficiency appliance.

You are correct that the hybrid hot water heater has a filter to maintain. The Rheem uses a washable filter. You probably have to wash the filter at least once a year. The filter reminder tells you when it needs to be cleaned. That doesn't seem too terrible compared to maintaining filters for a furnace.

If the attic drops below 30 degrees, then the homeowner will have a big problem with a pipe burst. If that is the case then any hot water heater is going to be a problem.

If the attic drops below 30 degrees pipes burst. Yes Mike, they make insulation to insulate the plumbing pipes with. Like you think it's never gotten into the teen's here where I live?

Same capacity same warranty argument....

I am sure you can always find a low end electric hot water heater at a big box store that will cost less than the hybrid after rebate. In my opinion purchasing low end hot water heaters and HVAC equipment is not worth it and should be avoided if the budget allows it. The AO Smith 6 year warranty FPTU-50 you posted for $1229 is a not a good deal. The price has the free shipping built into the price. If you like the A. O. Smith water heaters and shopping at Lowes, you can get the same water heater (HP-50H45DV) for $1236 with the 10 year warranty.

Hybrid hot water heaters with a uniform energy factor of 2.2 or greater qualify for a federal tax credit of $300. The $580 you quoted for the hybrid after rebate then becomes $280. A Diveristech CP-22 costs $45 plus the cost of piping and installation. The final costs of each are going to close depending on what models you are comparing.

I don't think washing the filter on a hybrid hot water is a big a deal as you make it. All HVAC equipment needs regular maintenance so washing the filter can be part of the routine. I put reminders on the calendar in my phone to remind me of things that need to be done on a regular basis.

Thanks for the information.

You have to consider 'everything'. It's not just about saving money...... convenience, noise, cold air where this sits, maintenance, costs when it breaks --- are all factors to contend with.

Hybrid Heat Pump water heaters are not for everyone.

That is true for all HVAC equipment.

Mike, don't try to confuse the subject this is a water heater thread. HVAC side of things is entirely different -- mostly due to climate concerns and desired comfort levels can vary by 15 degrees or more from one person to the next.

A tank water heater has a capacity --- of readily available hot water. The difference is in age of the unit, leading to how full of sediment it is, how narrow a passage way the hot water has to go thru --- sediment in pipes can and will mimic problems of running out of hot water not because you are out of hot water, but because the supply pipes don't allow the hot water to get where it needs to go.

Read back thru the thread there is a picture supplied to this thread of sediment in pipes.

Ray, there was a time not too long ago when hot water heaters were simple appliances, The choices were electric or gas, of which you would choose the capacity and years of warranty. Now there are many choices within both types. It has become very confusing for the average homeowner, just like it is for HVAC equipment. Take a look at the Rheem web site and count the number of choices of hot water heaters. it gets to be over whelming.

On top of all this, homeowners can be eligible for rebates and tax credits of $1050, plus incentives paid by local utility companies. These incentives are making the hybrid hot water heater a very attractive option. The Home Depots near me have them in stock in the store. It is no longer considered a special order item. However just like HVAC equipment other factors have to be considered beyond just the initial purchase price. I think we are in agreement on this point.

Mike, water heaters still are simple to me anyway. But I know better than to compare my operational costs to an inflated use sticker on the side of the tank.

It's easy for me to look at my electric bill and determine what has the highest cause and effect of a higher electric bill. --- The HVAC System, so that is what I focus on to save operational costs of the larger cost to operate. I'm not going to sweat nickels and dimes for an increase in inconvenience.

When it comes to heating water, I prefer keeping it simple. I like the convenience of installing it and not having to think about it or listen to it run / having to do any maintenance to it.

I don't flush the tank to try to clean out the tank. Or attempt to clean anything inside the tank. The 6 year warranty tank / in my best estimation lasts me 15 years on average. At that point I go buy a new cheap 6yr warranty tank --- no sediment cleaning etc. So paying for a longer lasting tank -- a tank with a longer warranty is rather pointless because sediment is considered 'maintenance.' - There's no warranty on that.

My life is full of maintenance related things. I prefer to spend what little time I have left on this rock --- NOT doing maintenance related things.

Mike, if you like those kinds of things. Knock yourself out.

I have a rental, I have this house here that will eventually be another rental... maintenance costs are the death knell of any business.

I don't want a tenant calling me at 3am because the water heater is making some odd noise. So I seriously doubt that even if they were giving away these hybrid water heaters that I would install one.

Simplicity rules for this single reason. --- it's worth the $400 with no rebates, no incentives to have peace and quiet.

The electric bills I have posted... no one has posted a lower electric bill than me. Not even you Mike and you're on Natural Gas.

The so called savings are elusive. Do whatever you want. I am not a plumber, so you won't be calling me to work on it when it breaks or perform maintenance on the goofy thing either.

I tend to agree with you about keeping it simple. I have purchased gas atmospheric hot water heaters in the past. There are no moving parts and can provide hot water during a power outage. The last two I purchased lasted 19 years each. I rarely flushed them.

Ray, my electric rate is 50% higher than yours. I would expect my monthly electric bill to be more.

Ray, my electric rate is 50% higher than yours. I would expect my monthly electric bill to be more.

True. But my bill is electric only 'energy' bill I have. I am not paying gas bill either. My electric bill also represents heating, cooking, lighting, electrical accessories and the proverbial hot water heat.

If this thread is any proof at this point of trying to determine what is 'fair' in the land of energy -- regardless what type it is ---well you may want to call it a day.

At this point I think we've covered the full spectrum of the racket known as: energy and efficiency 'unfairness'. Turn back now, you've reached the edge of the internet.

Oh Ray, everything is such a big joke to you. Yep, now you 'fully' understand how I maintain my sanity.

Ray, when you get your new electric rate of 10.2 cents per KWh, then my electric rate will be 70% higher than yours. So trying to compare energy costs between you and I is not a fair comparison.

I looked at my gas usage for 2018 and 2019 for the months of June, July, August, and September. These are the months the gas furnaces are not used in my house. For those 8 months my house averaged 21 therms per month. At 77 cents per therm the gas cost is $16.77 per month. The gas is used for cooking, drying clothes, and heating water. I can't tell you how much of the gas is used for the hot water heater, so my best guess is 50% or $8.39 per month. I don't think an electric hybrid hot water heater in the most efficient mode would get close that cost. However there are people in New York and California who don't have natural gas and pay more than $0.25 KWh for electricity. I suspect they would see some cost savings with the hybrid hot water heater. This assumes they have ceiling height and don't mind the noise.

When you have some time, you should read some of the reviews on the Home Depot web site for the $1299 hybrid. They are mostly positive. One purchaser installed it in the basement and claims the heat pump is helping to lower the humidity. This is allowing the dehumidifier in the basement to run less. This is a secondary savings on electricity which helps the return on investment.

I can't tell you how much of the gas is used for the hot water heater, so my best guess is 50% or $8.39 per month. I don't think an electric hybrid hot water heater in the most efficient mode would get close that cost.

Well I can't tell you how much of my electric bill is for hot water heat either. I can tell you it's not likely to be 50% of the bill. Of course if I used the inflated numbers on the side of the tank based on a 12 cent energy use I'd be paying $1.52 a day for hot water. $555 / 365 = daily energy use.

Scroll up to see one of my lowest daily cost uses of $1.11 a day. That includes all electrical expenses for the day including hot water heat. Why use this low daily cost figure --- because the hot water use of a structure will be fairly the same from one day to the next.

How much head room in $1.11 is there to cut? Remember the so called 'high cost' water heater heat is included in that figure.

So say I was paying double my rate you know because what you say isn't fair to you.

In this example my daily cost with double my rate would be $2.22 --- still not enough head room in that cost to worry about.

Which is why I said I am not going to concern myself over dimes and nickels.

you should read some of the reviews on the Home Depot web site for the $1299 hybrid. They are mostly positive. One purchaser installed it in the basement and claims the heat pump is helping to lower the humidity.

There are no basements where I live. Typically where I live this appliance is often times in the attic or the garage it wouldn't help with dehumidification of the structure because of where it's located.

Ray, given your electric rate and hot water usage the lowest cost electric hot water heater is a reasonable choice.

...hybrid heat pump water heaters can be more cost effective

Some Stuff in TX:

Choosing a heat pump water heater can add up to big savings:

Austin Energy rebate of $800

Replacing your electric water heater with a qualified heat pump can help you qualify for a rebate. For 40 to 49 gallon tanks, this is a $200 credit. An 80-gallon tank can provide a $300 rebate, with other options in between. To qualify, the Energy Star heat pump needs to have an energy factor of 2.2 at a minimum and at least a five year warranty from the manufacturer. It must be permanently installed and be compliant with all local, state, and national codes

These are local Tax Credits. Suggesting No Income Tax in TX means no credits for Hybrid is moronic! lol

If you are in the market for a hybrid hot water heater in NJ here is the current deal at Home Depot:

Rheem Platinum 50 gallon 10-year (model XE50T10HD50U1) $1,169.99 (10% off this week)

Federal tax credit: $300

NJ Clean Energy Rebate: $750

Open a new Home Depot Credit card and spend $1000: $100 credit

Net cost after rebates and credits: $19.99

You have to pay the sales tax on the $1,169.99. However if you have Home Depot install it for you there is no sales tax on the tank or the installation.

Mike - Good deal. I did well when I got my GE Hybrid but kept reading posts here about how expensive they were. lol

PS I did get the Fed Tax Credit - I thought it no longer was available!

By the way, did anyone see/worked with solar heaters?

Do they have heat pump?

I think that would be close to ideal solution: no moving air, quiet, mega efficient in wide range of temperature...

I won't go for it (HOA restrictions,f fear of big projects...), just fantasising...