Picking a rose for rootstock

sharon2079

4 years ago

How do growers decide what roses make good rootstock. Is it a trial and error thing. I know that here in Florida the rootstock of choice is fortuniana.... and yes I have had roses on Dr. Huey and they make it about year before growing backwards to their demise unless they live in a pot. I have few roses that are own root that are in the ground and have been so for several years.... I lost several rose bushes this past year that were on fortuniana.... no one has been able to daignose what the problem was .... I took the bushes to a couple of rosarians and they were not able to help....

anyway so one of my roses that is own root is Dark Desire. This rose is quite vigorous. Plus, a couple of the ones that died on fortuniana were either close to him or next to him.... making me think this guy is really a healthy rose.... I do spray this rose, because it is in the bed and I try not to skip any roses when spraying. However, some of my roses will have blackspot before they get sprayed, but this rose never has any blackspot .... so how would I know if it would make a good root stock....

If I wanted to try it..... not that I could get it to root.... because I am not that good at getting roses to root..... what would I need to do.... first I see this rose was started in 2003.... am I allowed to root him... is he still protected by copyrights... and is the copyrights for the entire bush ie making flowers.... or would it be possible just to see if he would make a rootstock. If it isn't still under copyright and I do get it to root, how big does the plant need to be to graft something onto it.... what keeps the plant from putting out more dark desires instead of the new grafted plant.... Has anybody tried this rose as a rootstock...For those of you who grow and graft roses do you think this rose has potential in being a good rootstock.

Thanks

Sharon

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Comments (2)

nanadollZ7 SWIdaho
4 years ago
This rose is still under patent, and that covers the whole rose. Copyright is something different. The name Dark Desire is also probably trademarked. I don't know if this rose would make a good rootstock, but if it's still under patent, you'll have to wait, I think. Diane
roseseek
4 years ago
The stocks in use in various areas are sometimes those which have proven themselves the easiest to root and the easiest to bud to in those areas. Prior to Dr, Huey being "the" stock in California production, Ragged Robin, Gloire des Rosomanes was the stock of choice there. It's thought some time around WWII, while collecting cuttings for the next year's production, cuttings of Huey were collected, rooted and budded to. Once it was discovered how much better those plants performed, the choice was made to switch to Huey for production. Sometimes, it's scientific study, sometimes it's serendipity.

Yes, patents mean you aren't supposed to propagate the patented rose. If you decide you wish to attempt rooting it and testing it as a stock for your garden, that choice is yours to make and I am not going to judge either way. You will need to successfully root lengths of it. You will need to remove all but the top one or two buds from each cutting so no growth of new shoots comes from anywhere but the top growth buds, or those new shoots will be "suckers" you will have to deal with on your newly budded plants. Once they are rooted, you can decide whether you wish to "T" bud, chip bud, cleft graft or how else you wish to bud to them. Personally, I prefer chip budding as it is far less dependent upon the bark of the stock being able to be lifted easily, so budding can be successfully accomplished over a much longer period than it otherwise might be able to. There are many videos on line about how to accomplish each method of budding (or grafting, it's pretty much the same thing, except you bud or graft single buds, but you can also graft stems to stocks).If you wish photos of chip budding, I have some on my blog.

The hardest part of what you propose is rooting the stocks. Practice it until you're proficient then have a ball budding! Good luck!
sharon2079 thanked roseseek
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Hi Carol: I read your posts 3-times, since you gave very valuable info. Many thanks! You are right that no conclusion can be made as to own-root or grafted is healthier, it depends which one has a bigger root compared to the mass above. The ratio of top growth versus root growth is what determine health. Someone grew 2 Love Potion floribunda, one grafted, and one own-root. The own-root got BS due to wimpy root, the grafted one is healthier. In contrast, Jude the Obscure as Grafted-on-Dr. Huey became a 7 foot monster in its 3rd year, with black spots late fall, despite their spraying every 10 days at the rose park. Three people reported own-root Jude the Obscure as very healthy, 3' x 3' as in my zone 5a, to 4' x 4' warmer. When the mass above is too big for the root to support, diseases can occur. Grafted roses can be healthy if pruned right, or if they don't face a harsh winter like my zone 5a. I dug up many Knock-outs, most lost their Dr. Huey if buried deep in wet clay. One in a dry spot had only Dr. Huey. One in a perfect spot had both Dr. Huey and own-root together, but Dr. Huey's root is many times bigger than the own-root that grew above. It's LOSE-LOSE for roses grafted on Dr. Huey in my zone 5a. If I plant them at ground level, they die, then Dr. Huey takes over. If I plant the bud-union 4 to 6" below ground level, Dr. Huey disintegrate, leaving a wimpy own-root. See below picture of Yves Piaget x Bohemia Rhapsody by breeder Robert Neil Rippetoe in CA. It's a 6-months old rose that I grow from the seeds that he sent. It's 100% thornless, dark green, and twice bigger than all the bands I bought. As to soil test, Carol, I wrote the procedure to test your soil pH using 50 cents of red cabbage and $1 of distilled water. It's more accurate than litmus paper. Even the $200 pH meter needs re-calibration, that's why I wrote the procedure below for English Roses Forum: Here is a link that might be useful: Cheapest way to test soil pH using red cabbage This post was edited by Strawberryhill on Tue, May 28, 13 at 13:06
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Hi there thanks for all the information just some more background it's in Europe, so the species are not botanically a invasive species or on any lists. it's an alottment, that is a small garden for rent, so that great beast if a rose is at least in the wrong spot , too near to a pathway wher the annuals canes scratch your eyes out, kind of, just when passing by. ----- yea, and apart from the bind weed, the flower stalk is a flowering weed grass, Elymus repens, couch grass ?, so the garden has many problems as I agree that the foto is of medium quality, I'm still quite sure that this rose is root stock, it flowers early, just once, so perhaps the new owner are more likely to shovel prune it, they just don't manage even a basic pruning... have a nice weekend, bye, Lin
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Picking a rose for rootstock

Comments (2)

nanadollZ7 SWIdaho

roseseek

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