I would have a T-moulding transition strip installed there at the end of the hallway. Apparently the floor beyond the hallway has a bit more bounce (flex) that the floor in the hallway & this is what is causing the flooring to separate.

Did they make sure the floor was level? Almost like there is an unlevel spot in the sub flooring right there.

@ci_lantro Thank you SO much! This could be a reason.

Beyond the hallway on one side is the living and dining area. On the other side are 4 doors- 3 to bedrooms and one to a bathroom. Do you think the transition form the big space (living room) to hallway is a cause?

@cat_ky Thank you! The work didn't include and leveling. As far as I know, the floor is level- we didn't have this issue with our old laminate floors

I'm not going crazy right? The contractor should be fixing this since their solution was to redo the hallway which they did, but the gap reappeared and widened. Is there any terminology I should use to explain whats going on?

Every floor requires leveling. You say that no prep or leveling was done. None? Every room to room requires a transition molding. There no transitions? Every install requires documented actual moisture testing of the subfloor and the material. Do you have pictures and a copy of the testing log? Every floating floor requires a vapor barrier and padding. What material was used for that? What was used to tape it? Many need glue in the locking mechanisms to actually work too. Every perimeter requires an expansion gap that is concealed by new shoe molding. Do you have pictures of that gap before the shoe molding went on? Every floor requires that a home humidification system be in effect that keeps your humidity from 30-50% summer and winter. What is your current documented hygrometer reading?

These are all things that a professional flooring installer would discuss, do, and inform you about. It’s up to you to install the humidifiers in order to comply with the manufacturers warranty requirements. All the rest is a professional flooring installers responsibility. But it all has a cost. It’s not part of a “standard” basic install only cost. But it is required.

And, it’s bamboo. It’s notoriously unstable. I’ve seen thousands in claims. It moves MORE than wood, because it’s mostly glue. And a bit of grass. It’s not wood.

@Beth H. : I have expressed my anger with them multiple times. They seem to think they did me a favor by redoing this hallway once. We did not pay in full and used a credit card. The deposit in non refundable but also was paid with credit card.

Underneath is concrete. The floor doesn't dip, nor buckles- its just separation there. They did not mention any leveling issues during installation.

I will be more demanding. Should I tell them I am disputing this? How can I light a fire under their butts?

@User- No, leveling was not included in the contract :( The only "prep" was removing old laminate, underpayment and old composite tile, in that order. They did not test the subfloor(concrete) nor did they ever mention this was needed. Im learning about this for the first time here! i cant believe they are rated 4/5 stars.

Underneath the bamboo they used while barrier- i dont think they used tape or anything to keep it down. They left i would say half an inch or so of space on the sides under the molding.

We live in apartment in the city, not a house so no thermometer, only heaters that are already here. We will be getting a humidifier. This is great knowledge for me to hit them with, thank you!!!

call your credit card and put a hold on payment first.

then call the company and tell them what was done. you paid them for a proper install. Until you get one, they're not getting paid

if you have to call out a diff flooring guy to find out if the flooring was leveled or not, then you could try that. But I think once they find out they're not getting paid until it's resolved, that should be enough fire

@Beth H. : I will do that- only concern is- we used the credit card for other purchases- can i have them put a hold on payments going only to the contractor? EDIT- Just put a hold on the remaining payment!(half of the cost)

I am not as sure as you are that the install is to blame...i am also not as sure it is the installers job to discover what the cause is...what confirms that doubt ...to me ...is that the same problem appeared in the same spot the second time...to me this indicates that the floor is the problem ...i would backtrack to who installed the floor before i would blame the flooring installers..if this is old construction...perhaps even a look under the house will reveal the answer/solution..

In your pic it also appears there is another crack in the flooring on the lower left of the pic?...this would support the under flooring may need repair...

@btydrvn The floor underneath is concrete and has no damage. The gap you see in the first photo was after the first installation. As the second picture shows, there is no gap there now, not in the picture nor in the floor currently.

We live in an apartment in the city, not a house.

What was the flooring cost? What brand? Where did you buy it?

Did the retailer supply the installer? Or were they paid separately? How did you find them?

What did you pay for installation? What did that include? Furniture moving? Shoe molding install? Trash disposal? Transport of materials? They didn’t discuss the extra charge for the prep?

HU,,yes you can specify exactly which payment.

but speak w/the owner of the install. If there is a prob w/the slab (such as uneven parts) then it should have been brought to your attention during the install. most floor companies go over the substate to check for low or high spots before they even start.

did you let the bamboo sit and acclimate in your home before install?

I used a very similar bamboo in our rental house. we installed it ourselves. we've had no issues other than one part where there was a dip in slab. it was a low point and the wood over it buckled a bit. we had to beef up that one spot in order for it to lay smooth.

start there and see if that's the issue.

did they use that foam underlayment?

@User

The floor was hawa wood- https://floorsunlimited.com/bamboo-flooring-products/hawa-bamboo-solid-natural-strand-woven-clicked-hbf-sbc703

They ordered 62 boxes and we had 14 left over! I am fighting them as to why they ordered so much. They left 2 boxes at our home and took the rest with them without asking us (we paid for all the wood!). they kept saying extra wood is normal but I am still arguing as to why an obscenely large amount of wood was ordered. They used one of the two boxes they left with us to repair the hallway.

• They never gave me the flooring cost but I can estimate from this website it was about $4,500(for 62 boxes)
• They ordered the wood.
• We only worked with the company/ contractor that did the flooring. They did mention they reached out to the manufacturer (i don't believe it) who said expansion and gaps are normal- I dont buy it! I'm sure the company didn't send the manufacturer pictures.
• Total quote for cost was a little over $12,000.
• Price included moving large furniture- it was outlined and we reviewed as we were living in the apartment during the reno (nightmare!)
• Included trash removal
• included quarter round moldings
• Included underlayment under the floor
• They found composite tiles under the underpayment which neither we nor they knew about (it was coming up with the laminate removal so had to remove it all. We would have uneven floors) and that had to be removed so and extra $1000+ charge

@Beth H. :

• Done- I put a hold on half of the payment and kept the first charges for the deposit plus tile removal charge) to stay
• I will ask my super but as far as we no, no issues with floor level- was never discussed during installation and we were present the whole time work was being done
• Yes the bamboo acclimated for 7 days before the install
• It looked like maybe foam sandwiched between plastic? With no ridges

make sure you mention the gap in the bedroom too.

the bamboo acclimated, it's the middle of winter so unless you're in the tropics or deep Fla, I'm sure your humidity isn't out of control.

if they have to take it all up and start over, then so be it.

Did they do that quarter round install too?

lets see the bedroom gap

hopefully SJ Mccarthy sees this and weighs in. she's the flooring expert

@Beth H. :

• Yes, i mentioned the bedroom gap the first time and they ignored it and only fixed hallway.. now the bedroom gap is worse than when i noticed it first!
• We are in NYC
• Yes they did the quarter round install as well
• Here is a bedroom gap pictures. i can post more later.

hmmm,,exact same type of gap pattern. weird.

yeah, you need to get the head honcho out there and tell him all of it needs to be fixed.

@Beth H. :

Yeah. Im speakign with him tmr. I'm trying to get their technician to come in Friday to look at it- they are reporting they fixed it once and nothing more they can do, "per management" and blaming on the expanding/ contracting. I'm also having our building super(who is knowledgeable about this work) come in at the same time so he can vouch that it was bad installation. I had the super come in after I saw the first gaps in the hallway and he said they didnt interlock it properly and didnt leave room for expansion.

If he refuses to have the technician come Friday, I am throwing all these potential causes as well as payment dispute at him.

Fingers crossed. I have lost SO much sleep because of this floor, you have no idea.

Thank you for your time and suggestions!

And, it’s bamboo... mostly glue... a bit of grass. It’s not wood.

Unfortunately true. Bamboo's not really a great material for floors, or actually for much of anything except maybe decorative knick-knacks. Even those highly advertised bamboo (rayon) sheets don't last very well, as I found out when I bought some without doing my usual research.

You probably know this, but they don't go out in the woods and cut down bamboo trees and mill them into lumber to make your flooring. It's a manufactured product.

It looks natural, but the type you have is basically densely woven grass impregnated with plastic. As for durability, it's probably as durable as the plastic that goes into it, which I guess can be pretty good if it's a good brand. So I don't see any reason that your floor should give you any more trouble than fake ("engineered") wood flooring, provided that you get them to install it right, which it looks like they haven't done. Those gaps really gape.

If I were in your place, assuming I had the resources to pay the difference, I'd tell the contractor, "This stinks. You still don't have it right. Take it out and give me real wood." But that's me.

As for losing sleep over this, ouch, sorry to hear that. It probably won't help much, but remember, this is just appearance, it's not structural. Your house isn't going to fall down around your ears because of this, thank goodness. Get some sleep if you can. You'll need to be rested to keep up with your installers. Unless they're really exceptional, they'll weave and dodge like a rabbit trying to outrun a dog. Good luck.

You will need to check the flatness on the subfloor. It does not seem like anyone verified to make sure it is within the manufacturer's installation tolerance. So, it was never discussed, recommended, performed or paid for.

The click-lock profile on bamboo can easily get damaged during installs. Another cause for gapping.

Stay AWAY from bamboo. : ) Really. This LVP Fusion Max, ( 7' x 7" planks ) runs through an entire apartment , over a concrete floor, and has not a single gap. It's in two bathrooms. It's senior living, and should the need arise? She can roll a mobility device all over. the scatter and area rugs can come up : )

In general · More Info

If all else fails, call the NYC Department of Consumer Affairs and find out if they are licensed. You can also file a complaint or threaten to do so.

Hmmmm, avoiding answering the price and material questions.

Floating solid bamboo is an anomaly in the market. Because it has issues. That’s why the brand and it’s specs is important. Does the manufacturer allow a floating install? What does the manufacturer say about the floor flatness required? Engineered is what is usually approved to be installed floating. Solid is a glue down or nail down product.

You can’t expect $2 material and a $2 installer to give the same quality result as the $12 material with the $8 installer. The fact that there was no prep paid for says that this is closer to the first scenario.

IMO it looks to me like an issue with the floor in that spot and there is no way to compare how your laminate laid and this flooring . I would never do bamboo but that is another topic. Because this is the exact same place the first install created these gaps I think it is underneath this spot. It just seems starnge to me it would be in the excat same place twice.

This might be a dumb question.... but if this is an apartment, why are you replacing/paying for a floor and not the landlord?

I'm assuming this is a condo or coop where OP owns the apartment. Many apartments in NYC are very dry in the winter because the heated air has no or little humidity. I always used a humidifier in the winter months. (Also cuts down on respiratory colds!)

I don't speak for the OP, but not all apartments are rented. Some are owned, especially in nations other than the USA. I somehow got the impression that the OP is in Canada, but that might be incorrect.

No, OP is in NYC.

following

Thanks folks for helping me understand apartment. Round by me, apartment is strictly rental with landlord being responsible for this sort of thing. Condo is when a person owns their in building suite and responsible.

@DavidR Yes, sadly I think we had a bad salesperson from the company. We asked for light colored wood and he brought one sample, which was this floor. He kept insisting 'its solid wood!" Shouldn't have listened to him and demanded more samples. You are right, in the grand scheme of things, nothing is falling down around me. Thank you for your kind words!

@G & S Floor Service

When we had laminate it was perfectly flat. We had no reason to thing the subfloor (concrete) was uneven.

@Diana Bier Interiors, LLC

Thank you!

@User

Hmmmm, avoiding answering the price and material questions.

• I responded to your question above, not sure what you are insinuating here? You also asked a bunch of questions the first time around with no context and are giving a flippant opinion...Dont bother wasting my time again when I already responded.
• The company never gave us the cost of wood. They gave us a total estimate and broke it down into down payment + remaining payment once work was done. I gave the amounts above. When I realized they ordered 14 extra boxes of wood I demanded to knw the breakdown of price to see how much we paid for the wood. I asked before this, but they did not give me an answer. I had to use the picture on the box to find the wood online, which I linked above and did the math to find the cost of the wood.

Does the manufacturer allow a floating install?

• This is the wood used- which I had to search for online
• "Strand Bamboo Flooring is exceptionally dense and therefore much harder than standard bamboo flooring styles. This particular collection from Hawa Bamboo features click lock technology for a simple and quick floating application - no glue needed."
• https://floorsunlimited.com/bamboo-flooring-products/hawa-bamboo-solid-natural-strand-woven-clicked-hbf-sbc703

@Patricia Colwell Consulting

• The laminate laid flat, no issues in this area. Yes, its strange to me as well :(
• This is the kind of advice and knowledge I expect from a company we paid to use, not this constant blame on heat and expansion from them like I am getting.

@beesneeds and @Lisa@DavidR

• Not a dumb question and Lisa you are correct, this is a Co-Op.
• We are getting a humidifier this weekend as soon as I figure out the best one to get!
• In NYC

I'm betting on installer error.

Does it feel spongey in that area? If, yes, you have a flatness issue causing separation.

No, then the T & G was damaged during the installation causing separation.

Floating bamboo - that's an oxymoron! I'm sorry to say a floating floor must have transitions (the wooden humps that sit in doorways...that no one likes and everyone tries to avoid). Transitions are NORMALLY seen in EACH DOORWAY.

Check: does the floor flow THROUGH the doorway (full planks) or do you see a moulding "in" the floor? We call them "T" moldings (because the side profile looks like a "T"...or a mushroom slice).

These MUST be in EVERY DOOR WAY...if the floor flows THROUGH the doors from the hallway you have a MASSIVE issue with installer. Dumb and Dumber where hired.

Floating Bamboo is horrible to deal with. I never trust it. And the Lock and Fold system is not something I see as being a 'great product'. And just for fun, Hawa Bamboo Lock and Fold does not seem to have been added to the installation instructions just yet...sigh

http://hawabamboo.com/hawa-installation-instruction-guide.pdf

Anyway. The HALLWAY is known as a 'pinch point' and it acts just like a doorway. Because of this (the little jig inwards is a deal breaker) the start of the hallway (off of the main room) SHOULD BE treated like a doorway. Which means a T molding can/should be used.

And yes...bamboo is a B!tch to live with. It needs pin-point control of humidity. As soon as the heat is turned on, it shrinks. And then it shrinks some more. And if it hasn't shrunk enough...it shrinks again. The stress on the click-edges are HUGE. And those click systems on Bamboo SUCK! They are terrible. Most professionals who HAVE to deal with this, will use joint glue. They never trust the click-profile for precisely this reason.

And if you PAID for the cartons...you OWN the cartons. Or you get credit back from the order because they took them away.

This is going to go south in a HURRY. If you can get them to take out that stuff and give you back your money...then you are way ahead of the game. You would do very well to find someone else and something else.

And laminate does very well with large swings of humidity/heat changes like NYC.

@Beth H. : @SJ McCarthy

So I sent a full email outlining everything to the flooring company and included that I would be disputing the charges. Less than an hour later, they called me and we scheduled to have supervisor technician come and inspect this week.

They also mentioned that "disputing the credit card charge with them would be considered a breach of contract." The binding credit card/ agreement we signed at the beginning when working with them states we authorized them to charge the card and under no circumstance can a charge back be requested."

Is charge back and dispute the same thing???

This is SO frustrating.

No worries (she says from behind a computer screen). You can argue (successfully) that the flooring company/installer was the first to breach the contract by failing to install a functional floor. And then continued to be in breach of contract for failing to correct all the issues.

A "charge back" is the layman's term for "disputing the charges". They are the same thing. Your response is the company will get ALL of their money when the floor THEY INSTALLED:

1. Meets MANUFACTURER'S installation requirements; which must include

a. Subfloor preparation as per manufacturer's requirements for flatness ratings

b. Expansion gaps as per manufacturer's requirements

c. T-moldings and transitions strips through all doorways and at pinch points for openings of 36 inches or less (like entrance to hallways) as per manufacturer's requirements

2. The company meets or exceeds "Best Practices" as documented by the NWFA Wood flooring hand book.

Just for sheeps and giggles, what DOES your contract state?

@SJ McCarthy Thanks for your wise words! Unfortunately I looked through the contract and it has a number of clauses to protect them from being badmouthed, etc etc. They were pretty thorough with THAT.

I looked through the contract and it has a number of clauses to protect them from being badmouthed, etc

That's bad news, and that's why I take the time to read the entire contract before I sign, even though it annoys the contractors.

These "no disparagement" clauses are becoming more common. They're a giant red flag -- a good contractor doesn't need to silence his clients. Quite the opposite. I would never in a million years agree to that garbage . I'd politely thank them for their time and show them to the door.

I may not have much good to say about internet review sites, but nobody is going to muzzle me and keep me from posting true statements about work that I paid for.

Any issue I had with a company or product ..I went first to them...if not resolved. Then to Credit card co. From reading the other expert opinions here, I would definitely demand excellence.

I would dispute the whole thing...even if you had already paid the bill. They will credit that back until resolved. They will ask for all correspondence and steps taken. It will be a process, but you will not have to pay the bill till it is investigated. And all the excess wood??

These "no disparagement" clauses are becoming more common. They're a giant red flag -- a good contractor doesn't need to silence his clients. Quite the opposite. I would never in a million years agree to that garbage . I'd politely thank them for their time and show them to the door.

Agreed. I caution my clients to eliminate any contractor who presents a contract with this clause in it. I had a client fire an unscrupulous builder and then discovered they were legally prohibited from reporting their experience online.

Your floor appears to have contracted, and decoupled in the spots pictured. The shrinkage is somewhat normal but may have been minimized by better/longer acclimation. In the bedroom the floor can likely be pulled up and relaid, making sure there are no spots where the floor will bind.

I suspect that binding is the prime cause for the gap in your first picture. The gap is clearly wider on the right. It appears to be butted up against a vertical member. This needs to have more expansion space. I'm not sure what the cruddy silver thing is on the right side with the little white tiles adjacent. Is it a threshold or a curb that sticks up? If there's binding there it needs to be allowed to float freely.

Another potential issue involves how wide the installation area is. If the floor extends through a doorway into a large area or long hall. as the entire floor shrinks as a unit, all of the contraction might end up in one spot. Some floating floors require wide runs be separated by a t-mold so expansion or shrinkage in one area doesn't manifest itself in another.

Extra Wood? Where are the extra 14 boxes of wood that YOU PURCHASED? It all belongs to you. It should be in your possession to do with as you wish.

You stated the salesperson showed you one sample- his floor. Have those extra boxes of material (that you paid for) become HIS floor, OR did the installer return those extra boxes to the manufacturer for cash or credit?

Please be nice to your superintendent- an extra witness for your side. (if lawsuit)

Discover who owns this company and the address for company.

Discover names of employees who worked on this job.

Tell company your dissatisfaction with job and demand they fix the floor, Threaten reporting them and lawsuit of necessary.

Keep dated detailed notations of all conversations and save all correspondence re: this issue.

Make a demand letter IN WRITING either for payment or what you need to be done to satisfy the job contract. BE SPECIFIC Send it certified mail.

Installer contractor licensed? Make a complaint to the licensing board.

NY Dept of Consumer Affairs - Make a complaint https://www1.nyc.gov/site/dca/index.page

IF YOU SETTLE WITH THEM -agree to pay them less than what is specified in the contract, then you need to have them sign a RELEASE for payment. This will prevent any contractors liens they place against your property.

I know this thread has gone stale but I think I've found an issue with the LACK of subfloor prep:

"They found composite tiles under the underpayment which neither we nor they knew about (it was coming up with the laminate removal so had to remove it all. We would have uneven floors) and that had to be removed so and extra $1000+ charge"

I'm going to guess the removal of the composite tile (?anyone check for asbestos if the tile was from the 80's?) really mucked things up.

The laminate was 'happy' sitting on the tile (I know...it wasn't supposed to be happy, but it was). The removal of the tile *MIGHT have caused some weird domino effect.

I'm so sorry this has happened. It should not be part of your life to live through a shoddy bamboo install.

With floating bamboo (click-together bamboo is notorious for issues...as in FAMOUS for having issues that reputable companies do NOT want to have anything to do with it) it is IMPERATIVE that all flatness ratings be taken. That expansion and transition strips are used through doorways.

That all pinch-points are dealt with appropriately. Etc.

If you are still dealing with this, please up date us. And if you can, please add photo re: doorways from hallway into other rooms (like the bedroom with the gap).

And finally, bamboo is UNSTABLE. Laminate is very stable. I'm guessing the perfect storm occurred in your home. And another issue: bamboo needs +++time to acclimate. And it takes a special meter (an expensive meter) to take moisture readings of the bamboo (and then it takes someone special to KNOW HOW to use the special meter).

I don't think you had anyone 'special' working on this project. I'm so sorry this has happened.

Any updates?

@HU-322788044 I have not read the entire post, meaning all of the comments and answers, BUT here is my 2 cents, given I went to small claims court over a flooring install that cost $15k, and I won.

Check the manufacture's specifications on this flooring install. What are their requirements for install on your specific flooring.

Did your installer follow those manufacturer's specs. Did they allow for sufficient acclimatizing, did they measure moisture/temp etc if required, did they prepare the subfloor?

Also, look at your contract for a workmanship warranty.

Does the contract contain a clause about maintaining humidity etc in your space. A lot of things to consider.

Also any flooring material you paid for in excess of what was laid, belongs to you period.

I basically won my case and got back 50% (max allowed in small claims) for breach of contract on their workmanship warranty, gaps, cracks, uneven boards etc. and areas were they completely failed to use fasteners (noting however my floor was refinished acacia/solid hardwood)

Good luck, keep us posted.