What situations would there be a use of a "therapy animal"? Is that where animals are taken to centers for disabled or hospitals/rehabilitation centers to interact with patients or clients? When I volunteered at a center for developmentally disabled adults I initially worked with the equine program and they were referred to as therapy animals but they were very much involved with interacting physically with the clients. I'm not well-versed about the HIPPA laws, but when I first started doing volunteer work there, I was informed that under no circumstances should I reveal the identity of any client of that facility outside that facility. For instance, if I was out in public - say in a store - and one of the clients happened to be there, I was not to acknowledge that person as a client of that facility, notably if I was with someone else. Many times the person would come up and talk to me but if asked I wouldn't legally be permitted to say "yes that person is a client at the center that I volunteer for". I just would say that I was an acquaintance and leave it at that.

Sorry rob. I'm an outsider to the profession but here's what I found in the HIPAA Journal:

"HIPAA is a federal law that introduced standards in healthcare relating to patient privacy and the protection of medical data. HIPAA covers healthcare providers, health plans, healthcare clearinghouses, and business associates of HIPAA-covered entities. HIPAA applies to most entities that fall into the above categories, except those that do not conduct transactions electronically."

What Does HIPAA Cover?

If the ADA does prohibit asking for credentials, I think it should be changed. I'm happy with and admire true trained service animals. They should be allowed anywhere for those with any real medical disability, whether sight, mobility,, PTSD, anxiety or whatever. Dogs that are treated as fashion accessories can stay home.

Where does HIPAA apply?

HIPAA applies to healthcare providers, health plans, and healthcare
clearinghouses if those organizations transmit health data
electronically in connection with transactions for which the Department
of Health and Human Services has adopted standards.

https://www.hipaajournal.com/who-does-hipaa-apply-to/

HIPAA has exactly zero bearing on conversations between private citizens, unless any of those private citizens is somehow acting as an agent of a covered healthcare provider, health plan or healthcare clearinghouse (or is inappropriately using information obtained from one of those sources).

HIPAA and ADA are probably 2 of the most misunderstood laws in our county. It amazes me the things people post as facts - which are in fact wildly inaccurate.

ritaweeda Yes. Your definition is correct. but a therapy animal may also be a therapy animal for an individual. Dogs or other pets can often be therapy animals for people with autism for example.

"Seriously??? Get a life, people, and stop playing with your pet like it was a toy!!

I think you took the thread too seriously."

Schoolhouse, I'm with gardengal on this one. She wasn't commenting on the thread, she was commenting on treating pets as if they were toys. You're the one with photos of cats with clothing articles on them. Her comment relates directly to you and others who do that.

I too am a lifelong dog lover and owner. Bigger dogs. You want a photo of one of my dear dogs with a hat or scarf or other item on? Sorry, we've never done that.

I think it's getting a little out of hand. People want to bring chickens and everything else into public areas. I don't want a chicken running around at a restaurant I'm eating in.

"I think you took the thread too seriously."

I don't think so :-) I think those who responded and took the time to dress up their poor beleaguered pets in stupid outfits, then took photos of them and then posted them online took it too seriously!!

The enormously profitable Pet Industry has succeeded in brainwashing a whole culture, to the point that people are attacked for declaring that Animals are Not People, with rights identical to those of humans.

It's impossible to escape commercials humanizing pets. Billions of dollars are spent catering to fantasies that pets ARE children, spouses, friends. This is not rational, especially while actual children are hungry and homeless.

There is a place in human society for pets, but this cultivated dependency has gone outside the realm of reason.

ESAs are fundamentally untrained. They are what we used to call "pets." - patriceny

I laughed at this but it is bang on.

A couple of years ago one of our local malls was having an issue with people bringing in their designer dogs carried in their designer bags into the mall. Signs were posted stating that if papers proving that the dogs were not therapy dogs they would be asked to leave. Took care of the problem. Whether or not the signs had legal standing I don't know but people stopped bringing in their dogs.

DD has a small Chihuahua. She has to have sweaters and coats when the temperature drops. She shivers if not dressed for the weather. I do have fun buying her cute things and she looks adorable in them.

My pit/mix is okay in most temperatures. But, I will put a jacket on him if it gets to 30 degrees.

I agree that the therapy/emotional support dogs have gotten out of hand.

I was visiting a private corporate garden. No dogs allowed. But of course, there was a dog with a vest. You really never know but sometimes your gut just tells you "faker!" I didn't like that this dog could potentially poop on the grass, where children play. Yes, you can pick it up, but let's be real. Unless you rip up all the grass with the waste, there is always the possibility that something can be left behind. So, not fair.

Elmer, I do agree about dressing dogs up. We used to dress our Golden for Halloween. Looking back at the photos, she really wasn't pleased but was always a good sport.

I agree that some sort of standard needs to be established for emotional support animals. There are certain things like eating in a restaurant, shopping in a grocery store or going to a movie while there is a rambunctious, untrained animal present that I find really off putting. I especially don't like to see them in confined areas like airplanes where it's impossible to move away from them. Not long ago, I read of an incident where someone (flight attendant, I think) was bitten on the face by an untrained emotional support animal - that's just intolerable in my view.

I feel the same about untrained emotional support animals as I do smokers. Your right to do your thing ends when it threatens the well being of others.

I am in full support of fully trained service animals. They are amazing and open up new worlds to those with disabilities of all kinds.

blfenton, I've been seeing signs such as you've described posted in stores and restaurants lately. I have no idea if they'd hold up in court, but I applaud businesses for trying to do something about this issue.

Wow. People have been posting pics of their dogs in dresses, PJs, coats and sweaters on the KT for years. This is the first time I've seen a reaction like this. I won't apologize for putting a tie or hat on my cat - occasionally and for a few mintues - but I am sorry that the OPs thread got hijacked.

Schoolhouse - LOL! - this is actually one of the rare instances where I don't mind and understand why this got hijacked. Because it seems like the people who are taking advantage of these legally unenforceable rules are usually the same ones who dress their pets up as if they are humans, too and act like they have every right to be treated as such. If someone is joking around and having fun dressing up their pets I don't care but I think in a lot of instances it just goes a little too far and is a tad weird and sick - IMO. I also think that there are always those who insist on protesting the norm, bucking the system, and running amok with their perceived "rights".

If you cannot post a picture of your child in a hospital room on Facebook, which you can't, how does HIPAA not apply to the general public? No one has to divulge their health issues to anyone without proper clearance. And they are not required to answer you if you ask such an inappropriate question.

Rob, can you please point to something which says posting pictures of one's own minor child in a hospital room is a HIPAA violation? I'm genuinely confused by this statement, because it doesn't match anything I know to be true.

No medical provider should ever do such a thing. HIPAA does not apply to the child's parents.

"If you cannot post a picture of your child in a hospital room on Facebook, which you can't, how does HIPAA not apply to the general public?"

I know zip about Facebook but if this is the case, the key words are "Hospital Room". The same wouldn't apply in a beauty parlor, restaurant, or other non-healthcare related public place, where it would be fine.

I have made custom coats for the dogs of my ex-boss because they would not wear off-the-rack clothes, possibly because they lived in Beverly Hills. I got paid for it, and so I had no problem with it. I made bathrobes and regular walking coats, although it is never cold enough in BH to require a coat, at least for a dog, and so they had to be fashion accessories.

Last Friday a woman came into my driveway walking her pig on a harness, and I saw her on my security camera and went to the door to find out what she was doing. I never said anything to her and only glared at her for coming to my door for no reason with her pig. She turned around after seeing me and walked back to the sidewalk, but as soon as I closed the door, she came back up my driveway to my door, and so I opened the door again. This time she rather hurriedly went back down the driveway, and a friend who was working with me that day ran out the door to see the pig, but the woman had already gone down the street. I don't want pigs going into my yard any more than I want dogs there, but pigs can potentially do more damage to the yard, and they might eat something that would not agree with them.

Sunday I was talking with my neighbor, Scott, and I mentioned this incident to him. He told me that the woman rents the house on the corner, three houses up the street from me (two houses from him), and that the woman lied about having the pig when she rented the house, as the landlord has a "no pets" policy. However, because she claimed that the pig is an emotional support animal, the landlord cannot evict her for violating the no pets policy. Scott also told him that he has talked with this woman, and she told him that her pig has an Instragram account with over 10K followers and that she would tell me the same thing if I ever spoke with her (which I will not). Scott also said that no one in the neighborhood likes this woman because of her attitude, which is basically that she can do whatever she wants whenever and wherever she wants. Richard, who lives between Scott and this woman especially does not like her, but I am not exactly sure why.

If this pig is an emotional support animal, I do not think it is doing a very good job if it alienates this woman from people in the neighborhood. It certainly is not winning her any friends except for cyber-friends, which may be all she wants. The pig is sort of a medium size now, but it looks like a Chester White, which can grow to 650 pounds. It might be more difficult to control once it reaches maturity. My father raised pigs, which were cute when they were small, but they could become mean when full grown and some even chased my brothers.

My front door security camera captured a video of the woman with her pig coming up to my front door.

As a side note, my brother Mike's best friend Randy Tate was on the show American Hoggers.

Lars, whatever you do, NEVER let this nut with the pig know that you make clothes for dogs, next thing you know she'll be demanding it for her pig and when you refuse she'll find some shyster attorney to sue you for discrimination! LOL!!

Lars, pigs can indeed be ESAs. I've personally seen many lizards and all sorts of other non-cuddly-type-creatures as ESAs.

Any rental subject to federal fair housing laws has to accept ESAs. The housing law recognizes the whole "one's home is one's castle" doctrine, and thus all sorts of ESAs get thrust upon landlords.

Good luck with the pig. :) You certainly don't need to let it or its owner on your personal property.

I have had two certified therapy dogs. They went through training and testing. We visited places like retirement homes, senior day care facilities, psychiatric hospital in-patient units, and special education classes. They were NOT service dogs and had no more rights than a pet dog. The certification basically meant that we had insurance through the certifying organization if something went horribly wrong during a pet therapy visit (which it never did).

Here's some more info about the rights of emotional support pigs.

When I was in Guatemala, I took a second class bus to get to some town or other (I think it was Quetzaltenango), and there were as many as five people crammed onto seats meant for two people. I also happened to notice that the man next to me had a pig in a fishnet bag, and the pig was between him and me. The pig was so quiet that I hardly noticed it was there.

“ If you cannot post a picture of your child in a hospital room on Facebook, which you can't, ”

oh oh, lot’s of people better watch out for the Facebook police. I see photos of children in hospitals, doctor and dentist offices, schools, churches etc. often. Why do you think you can’t?

You can't legally evict someone for having an emotional support pig, BUT you CAN charge a HUGE non-refundable pet deposit and not renew their lease when it ends. And...you CAN evict someone for having livestock on the property, if there's an HOA or city ordinance against it.

I have a friend who owns a very obese untrained dog. She can't leave her apartment without her dog going crazy and barking. She's received notices about it, with threats of needing to have it removed. So she went to Amazon and spent $20 and bought a vest that says "emotional support animal." Now when she leaves her apartment she puts the vest on the dog, and away they go. She takes her dog everywhere - into the grocery store, to doctor appointments, to the movies, etc. She's found a way to scam her way into being able to take her dog into establishments all because her dog barks when left alone.

Regarding posting a picture of a child in a hospital room, I see it all the time on Facebook. Sometimes it's a newborn baby with all kinds of tubes in it.

Also, if tenants don't disclose to the landlord that they have a " emotional support" animal then it seems like that is grounds for eviction. An animal is an animal or if they consider it as another human, then pay rent for that second human.

Sephia, I feel sorry for the dog and actually am glad that it goes with her. As long as it isn't a problem while out and about.

Nearly twenty years ago our small city was locked in battle with a former spouse of a member of the Walgreen family. The issue was her pet pig. As I recall, the problem arose when she subdivided her estate. The remaining house was on land inadequate to house livestock. She mounted quite a campaign, claiming her pig wasn't 'livestock', but her darling pet, which would suffer emotional harm if separated from her. She lost -- or ran out of money -- and moved away, with the pig, I presume.

"I have a friend who owns a very obese untrained dog."

Two major easily avoidable problems here and the dog can't be blamed for either.

Much of what rob has reported as fact in this thread simply isn't true. I know of a precious young girl who is the recipient of a Great Dane service dog who assists her with her mobility challenges.

Pictures are always posted of her frequent hospital stays, with her beautiful dog snoozing in her hospital bed with her. Pictures are posted during physical and pool therapy, often with her doctors and other medical professionals.

(Yes, service dogs are allowed in all hospitals, doctors' offices, cafeterias, and even ambulances. Emotional support pets or therapy animals are not.)

Yep, both things, being obese and being untrained, are things that could be corrected. My friend is obese too. She needs to lose weight just like her dog who doesn't mind. We were having lunch once, and this fat dog kept trying to get up on the table. Ended up pulling the tablecloth and down went the water glasses onto the table and silverware on the floor.

I'm a dog lover and feel so sorry for this dog. My friend is retired and does nothing. She could at least walk her poor dog.

...and she moved away with the pig, I presume.

Snicker.... LOL

I am all for having to show proof in certain circumstances. When it’s possible to purchase ‘service animal’ patches on Amazon, then anyone can try to claim having one.

I recently have been volunteering at walking nights at our Christmas light show. We have 2 dog-walking nights during the 2-week walking period. There were almost 600 dogs in a 4 hour period the first night which is great. Everyone receives a poop bag with their admission, and I was told we had no incidents, everyone picked up their poop and the dogs were great. A few nights later someone showed up with a service dog. He was admitted, but normally we do not allow dogs at all.

A couple of months ago, we were out of town with friends and decided to buy ice cream in a park. We were sitting at a park bench when DH noticed a young woman nearby who had a pet rat. She was allowing the rat to wander around her neck, eventually settling down her bosom while she ate her lunch. I just can’t fathom why this is acceptable.

If it's outside why would that be bothersome? Chances are good there was more than that 1 rodent not far from you. You were in a park.....

I agree no rats wandering around in a restaurant, for example. But no rodents in a park is going to be hard to get the squirrels on board with.

Well the rat should be on a leash while in the park.

LOL!! I doubt there are any leash laws regarding rodents :-) And if the rat was just on her person, I also fail to understand why this is NOT acceptable. It certainly wasn't bothering anyone else. Rats actually make excellent, friendly and very trainable pets (although they would not be my first choice......)

We have had several pet rats. When DS was a pre teen he took his rat everywhere. He had a fanny pack to tuck it away when as needed. Rats are very smart,clean animals. His rat rode on his shoulder when he was on his bicycle.

DD had several pet rats as apartment pets. She had them trained to go in a little potty container in the corner set in one corner of their 3 story cage. They were allowed to run loose when she was at home and she taught them to play hide and seek. They would respond and come when called by name.

Rats make great low maintenance pets. Unlike gerbils and hamsters they are calm and don't bite. There is nothing wrong with them being outside with their owners outdoors.

https://www.ada.gov/service_animals_2010.htm

I’m an avid dog lover but I don’t believe it’s right when someone takes their dog into a business just because they want to. I think your certification idea is really smart and would be a very reasonable way to keep the issue under control. The municipality could charge a few dollars for it and use the funds to help with the care of homeless dogs and cats.

Rob, HIPAA is only applicable when it involves the release of your medical records by anyone who is professionally participating in your care. There are a couple of exceptions that are not covered by HIPAA though, your insurance provider, a subpoena issued by the courts, a referral for continued care and workers comp. It’s not a HIPAA violation if someone repeats information you’ve openly provided, but it is a violation if your records are accessed by someone you have a relationship with like a family member, a friend, (even when they have your permission) or a staff person who’s just nosey or curious (like looking up famous people’s information).

It appears that your large lady friend with the large dog that must bark when left alone in the apartment is dealing with a reversal, Sephia - a non-human animal in need of emotional support.

Or ... maybe I'm barking up the wrong tree?

o j

No, OJ, you're spot on. My friend's dog is in desperate need of something. He doesn't behave and is never exercised. This person and I don't really hang out much together anymore. I learned a lot about this person when she bought the dog vest to be able to take her dog places. I learned about a couple other questionable integrity issues.

How could we arrange a servicable plan ...

... to get the lady to don the vest?

ole joyful

Well the rat should be on a leash while in the park. People bring untrained dogs to the park and allow them, unleashed, to run around unsupervised without consideration for other people's pets. The untrained dogs sometimes attack other dogs, sometimes large dogs see tiny dogs as prey. A rat that is leashed might be safer, and easier for an owner to scoop up and put inside a pocket or purse.

I have never seen an owner of a rat allow their rat free reign in a public area. Rats don't randomly leave their owners and run around unsupervised. The rat is on the person not out in the wilds. LOL Similar to parrots that like to ride on their person's shoulder and don't go flying off to join the flock.

As long as there seems to be no way to actually certify, verify or ID an actual service dog I think dog policies in public places should be strictly based on behavior. I would rather see a well behaved, well cared for pet in a store than a fake unruly "service dog".

One of the Targets in our area figured this out for themselves. They will allow dogs in on leash, well behaved and under control of the owner. The way they separate the wheat for the chaff is to absolutely not allow dogs to ride in the carts. They must have 4 feet on the ground.

I agree that trained rats make great pets and pose less of a threat to the general public than dogs, but I cannot get Ben from Willard out of my mind, even though I have never seen this movie. I still keep a distance from people who have rats as pets, just as I keep a distance from dogs. At this point, I am less afraid of pigs than I am of dogs, having been bitten by dogs multiple times by uncontrolled dogs.

Rats don't randomly leave their owners and run around unsupervised. But they might very well do so if an unleashed dog jumped up on their owner trying to get at them. And once they have run off in a fright, it might be difficult to get them back, or the dog might get them. But if they were leashed, the outcome might be better.

There is so much misinformation out there about HIPAA laws. I had an irate woman tell me once that I was breaking those laws by merely asking “how are you today?” I laughed. She got madder. I am not employed in any form of health care business, just a normal person. The subject had started just like this one, about imposter service animals.

I remember going to a childs birthday party when I was ........maybe 6 years old. The little French boy, I remember he didn't speak English, had a pet rat. It lived on a TV tray in the main bathroom. :0) Supposedly it was afraid of heights & wouldn't jump off.

Later...it was discovered "missing". It was more frightened by strangers....than heights.

I would laugh at that too Flamingo. HIPAA requires that anyone even remotely involved with healthcare update their education annually. Even so, I see a lot of staff people who still don’t understand it, sometimes it can be tricky.