The inspiration photo hood is wider than your spacing if want regular cabinets on both sides.

Make the cabinet above hood taller & spacer less.

To help balance out the symmetry on bottom, do matching bases on both sides either drawers or bases combo

Your range wall is less than half the size of your inspiration. It’s all squished up. You need to get rid if of whatever that that corner indent is. Its It’s eating up up too much room. It’s all squished up. The island is sldo also much smaller, and lacks the correct detailing needed.

I agree, I find the placement of the range odd. I love the staggered cabinets, but I know I spend most of the time by the range. I'd rather put the fridge on the side there.

Not a pro. I don’t like the staggered cabinets. Why not bring all cabinets to the ceiling throughout the kitchen? That would give you more storage space and save you from dusting above the cabinets.

Thank you everyone! I’ll have the cabinet maker add the apron to the island and widen the mantle hood and make the cabinets on it taller for proportion. Cabinets will be cherry so i thought it would be too dark to take them all the way to the ceiling. Plus I love traditional look. The corner has a large pantry that I don’t want to make smaller. I kind of wish I had done the hidden pantry thing but I didn’t have the square footage for it. (We are framed and have electrical and insulation. Drywall next week)

I did flip the pantry door swing and eliminated the wall to the left of the range.

inspiration photo for layout.

The gas Range I’m planning will not have to top. Thinking about this one but haven’t shopped much yet.

I do realize that most photos I liked were 8’ ceilings vs the 9’ I have.

I have had two houses with old cabinets (pre-1950) that went to the ceiling (and one was a 9 ft ceiling), so I don’t think it’s incongruous with a traditional style.

I do not understand your subject title, “Not another kitchen cabinet forum”. What do you mean by that?

Another No to staggered cabinet heights. No one likes them. If you don’t want to have your cabinets meet the ceiling, then the uppers should all be 42” tall.

You show a 4-burner 30” range. That size range should not have a hood with a cabinet surround. It will look out of proportion. A cabinet surround looks appropriate for minimum 36” range or wider, like in your photos (your cherry wood photo has a 60” range). And if only a 36” range it looks good if the cabinet surround is kept quite simple and is 42” wide for the 36” range. You will do better with a metal chimney hood that is 36” wide over your 30” range. Easier to clean and less expensive than a cabinet surround too.

The symmetry that you see in your inspiration photos is missing. Take the uppers to the ceiling and make the bases look the same. You can strap drawer heads together on the right so that it looks like the drawer base on the left. Your pots and pans and dishes should be near point of use. I would use the drawer base between the DW and refrigerator for cutlery and dishes and put a 30" drawer base on the end of the island facing the range for your pots and pans. If it is not too late can you change the pantry door to a pocket door? That way you can use the short wall on the left to hang aprons, BBQ tools, broom, etc.

Framing and electrical can be redone, especially if sheetrock isn't up yet. Think about that cost compared to working in a more efficient layout for many years to come.

If the window could be moved down, you would have space to put the range on the same wall, with a nice prep area between the range and sink. Fridge would be on the short wall, with the MW and coffee/snacks easily available, without entering the prep/cooking zones.

Helpers could load or unload the DW, or gather dishes to set the table, without entering the prep/cooking triangle. Incoming groceries could be dropped on the island, to be loaded to the pantry and fridge, on the same side of the kitchen. I included an optional prep sink, which would make the kitchen more efficient for multiple cooks, but the perimeter prep flow works without it.

I'd suggest using all drawer bases, except for trash pull-out.

"Staggered cabinets" is not a traditional look, but it is a dated one. I say that because I have them from 16 years ago ;) My kitchen is 20 X 20 with 36" range and 42" hood, 9' island, all drawers on base cabinets and great layout. So it has fortunately stood the test of time, BUT I wish I would have brought ALL my cabinets to the ceiling.

Remember that cabinets are not "finished" on top like a piece of furniture...so the stuff that collects up there pretty much clings to the unfinished wood that is recessed beneath the crown (that is also unfinished). Dusting doesn't work, you need your long-hose vacuum.

Also, I've wanted to paint my kitchen myself but I can't because I can't personally reach up that high from ladder OVER the cabinets.... that are OVER my countertops.

Great function will never go out of style, and cabinets-to-the-ceiling

• prevent dust
• prevent tricky painting challenges
• will stand the test of time/never look dated
• will still look very traditional in cherry
• can be brought to the ceiling with mouldings and crown

The very not great floor plan is giving you a very not great kitchen. You have far too much space lost to hallways and MUD.Post the ENTIRE first floor. Nobody needs a "catch all".........that was your first clue : )

In my remodel, I specifically made it so that if someone wants to go to the pantry, the fridge, the ice-maker, the side of the sink with the filter faucet for water, load/unload the dishwasher, or use the microwave, they DO NOT cross my prepping/cooking zone (which means for me to be the area that includes my prep place, the stove and the sink). In your current layout, if you are working in the kitchen, and someone wants to get something out of the pantry, they have to cross between the stove and the sink. That would really bother me on a daily basis. But not everyone would be bothered by that. We scratch cook everyday and have a large family. I want/need people to help with prep and cleaning up, so we have plenty of space for others to be accessing the fridge, chopping, loading/unloading DW, etc. But when it comes time to actually cook, I don't want people getting in my way. They know to not come between me and the stove/sink zone once the heat is turned on, and they don't have to, because they can move about freely without needing to cross MY zone.

Another thing that would bother me is, let's say someone is helping you by loading or unloading the DW, but you are prepping at the same time and need to access the fridge. You have to go all the way around the island to get something out of the fridge, and then all the way back around it to get back to the stove area, or else you would have to step over the opened DW. That would really bug me on a daily basis.

In the alternative layout proposed by mamagoose, your stove and sink would be next to each other, with some prep/counter in between which is ideal. (I also frequently prep on the island so I can talk to people, then I just turn around and put the prepped things next to the stove til ready for them.) In mamagoose's layout, people can go to the fridge, the MW, the pantry and the DW without getting in your way. And if you have helpers, they may want to rinse some veggies, chop on the island, and then they can just scooch the cutting board over towards you and you grab that off the island when you're ready for it. You could have a helper unloading the DW or putting groceries away in panty without getting in your cook zone at all.

Now, I'm not a pro, but I might do 1 thing differently in mamagoose's layout. I might switch the MW/coffee/snack area with the fridge. This would be so that the cook can go to the fridge without coliding with someone wanting to use the MW, get coffee/snack, etc. I can see this during a party; you might set up that area with drinks and snacks. If someone is using the MW or pouring a drink, I would have to go around them to get something out of the fridge. I would prefer that area to be on the end of that wall. Again, these kinds of traffic considerations aren't a big deal for a lot of people, but it matters to me a lot.

Good call, AJCN. :) I considered switching the fridge and MW/snack area, but that would put the MW out of the cooking zone. So, the placement would depend on whether the OP uses the MW more for quick snacks and reheating coffee, or whether it's used mostly for cooking during meal prep.

@mama goose_gw zn6OH thank you. I wish you would have weighed in when I posted my kitchen plan two times earlier! Which is why I have named my title that way. I need assistance that's for sure and that is a beautiful flow. But unfortunately it would cost us several thousand to have our window moved down. I know my husband won't allow it. We just don't have that in our budget since we have already had multiple unforeseen costs that weren't in our contractors bid and everything has been more than our estimate. I did narrow up/halve the size of the cabinet next to the fridge so the fridge is closer.

@Shannon_WI thank you for your help with range size. I had no idea what the proper proportions should be. I thought my cabinet maker would have been able to do that for me! I really want the mantle look. What is the best option. I can change my range size since I haven't purchased it yet. Maybe I should do the mantle hood without surrounding cabinets above.

If you are confined to these walls, you could make more efficient use of your space by making your range a cooktop.

You could move your microwave drawer from island...and install beneath a single wall oven. You could put this large 30" cabinet in the corner to the left of the sink . Or you could get a top-microwave/oven-beneath wall unit.

If you could shrink (not move) the size of your window to 5' this would be even better.

You could then put more drawers in island, and this would allow you to put pots/pan drawers right beneath where you cook.

The cooktop could be 36" and hood could be 42", then flank the 36" pots/pans drawers with two 18" drawer banks for cooking utensils, oven mitts, etc .

Your hood could be flanked by two 15" cabinets for spices, oils, etc on lazy susans inside.

If you need a range, you could still do a 36" range with a 42" hood to get more the look you were going for.

This is pretty frustrating for me because we have limited funds and I've asked for help earlier and took the advice that was given then to get the setup I have now. Now I feel like it's too late... All of the electric and plumbing has already been run. It would be a major redo.

Men like a written contract. "Sweetie, if you let me move the window, I will not expect any "gift", for any occasion, for the next five years". And when Xmas / anniversary / birthday / Mother's Day occur give him a big hug and tell him how happy you are that he let you move the window. It's worth a try.

That pantry is an issue. It protrudes into the kitchen and messes up your layout big time. It also doesn’t give you any more storage than a shallow step in pantry would, even though it occupies triple the space. Get rid of it. Put some shallow 12” cabinets in the now bigger mud room that will hold just as much or more than the pantry did.

You really should be working with a good Kitchen Designer.

I wish I'd seen your earlier questions, too. If it's not possible to change the window, please don't let this hiccup ruin your enjoyment of your kitchen. We are searching for the ideal, but people are adaptable. :)

If the electrical outlet for the range could be redone, to put the range on the exterior wall, venting would be easier and less costly--maybe that would offset the cost of re-doing the 220v wiring.

The fridge would still be on the short wall, but I re-arranged it at AJCN's suggestion. The DW and dish storage move to the left of the sink, still out of the prep and cooking zones. If plumbing is needed for the fridge, it's not far from the laundry--maybe a cold water line could be run around the pantry?

BTW, I think the 'catch-all' is a drop zone--it's well-placed to keep things out of the kitchen, but needs to be narrower, to alleviate the pinch-point at the master bathroom corner. Would a diagonal cabinet/counter work there?

My cooking area is similar to yours: 30” gas stove, cherry cabinets on either side (to 8.5” ceiling), with stainless steel vent hood. My kitchen designer and I obsessed over this for a long time, compromising on a 30” vent, but with space on either side. I can post a photo if you like.

Your inspiration kitchens are much larger than yours, so you can’t cram all that in and get the same look. Try a stainless hood with a 42” cabinet on either side. This will probably cost less than what you are showing now.

It also looks like you are planning an overhang with seating in front of your stove. Functionally, that’s not great.

I think you can tweak your plan, improve it and save money.

@K H - you've mentioned you are frustrated that you didn't get this advice when you asked for help earlier. I have not been able to find a thread where you posted asking for advice on your kitchen layout. I checked your Activity Page Comments and did not see this post you mentioned. I would be very interested to see it. Was it posted on the Houzz Kitchens Forum?

I'm sorry it's so frustrating, I remember going through the stress of renovations and building myself.

I would just review the advice you see today - and definitely interact/continue the discussion because there may be more great advice to come. Figure out what you really like/wish you could take, and then just ASK your builder what it would entail to make the changes you are interested in :)

Don't assume the cost of anything...you can't know for sure until you ask.

I will tell you that my husband and I have repeatedly said "we should have just bla bla bla back when we had the dust everywhere and we had no kids in college" SO my advice is to just ask and then talk through it together.

Then, after you find out and settle on the plan that works best for your life and you're finances...be ok with it :)) It's a big renovation, and it's important to make the best plan you can....but it's not a loved-one being sick and in the hospital, etc. There is much to be happy about, stress not worth it.

And if it ends up you have to leave everything in the kitchen in places they are planned for, try to focus on the benefits/good things to be happy with!

• brand new cabinets, countertops, backsplash, etc
• a beautiful focal point range wall
• a huge sink window that will brighten up your kitchen,
• a huge pantry with everything within sight, ideal as you age,
• an island kitchen with additional room for a dining table!
• an overall space that will make you feel happy by being in it

Please post the entire first floor. Do you REALLY want a pocket door at the master bath to a mudroom hallway?

@M Miller

https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5735988/did-i-go-to-minimal-on-cabinet-uppers

Here is my second post to the kitchen forum. And my very first one. Guess I should have stuck with that design to begin with... https://www.houzz.com/discussions/5609292/pretty-simple-country-kitchen-new-build-project As you can tell; been at it for a while.

@latifolia I would love to see you kitchen please!

@ccwatters that is exactly what I have been imagining.

@User while that is more ideal plumber won't plumb on exterior wall. I really feel like the only thing I could do to shrink the pantry would be to push the door wall back and just not have a door.

@JAN MOYER here's the whole thing. It has been tweaked during framing so it isn’t the same anymore. It would take me several paragraphs to list the changes but my main focus was the kitchen so that is why I clipped the plan to begin with.

Posted before so I'm sure I'll need a glass and bottle of local Missouri wine for this....

Kind of hard to fit everything into a 2100 sq ft home that our contractor (and others) bid at $289,000 and we are already foreseeing $300,000.(which is doable but can't go too crazy) Guess we needed unlimited funds but our cattle raising family of 5 live in a trailer house right now and we've lived there since 2011. My husband and I have saved money since we got out of college (paid off debt and saved) so we could have a nicer/actual real home to live in and raise our 15, 7 and 3 yr old. So we are paying cash as we go since our 15 year old has a goal to go to vet school in Michigan so we will also need a small fortune for that! I'm really just excited for non-plastic bathroom sinks, an actual closet to store something in and a kitchen that doesn't have the fridge right in the walkway but I also know I need to get this right so it is the most functional and economical while still having a few pretties like the mantle hood and window wall I've been dreaming about.

I have been trying to post photos, but either nothing happens, or they turn sideways.

If you keep the current layout, I’d recommend getting rid of the cabinets n t to the hood entirely. Let the hood and a great backsplash be the statement. It will breathe a lot better and feel more spacious. You’ll have sufficient storage in your base cabinets for spices.

Thank you everyone for your help. I thought a lot about your suggestions and I plan to switch to a 36” range, run the cabinets all the way up and make the base cabinets the same. This will give me the best use of money because I can’t have both a redo of the framing/electric/plumbing and the stacked cabinets/larger range. Any best brands for a 36” gas range? Also any suggestions for how to stack cabinets above the fridge? I like the open shelf look but not sure if it would look out of proportion and thought I would also ask for advice on fridge size for a family of five.

Are you sure you want to put a 36” range there? You only have about 72” total, will need filler at wall for cabinet, and space on left before door trim and a countertop overhang and end panel. Your counter space on either side of range will be small, and your only going to have a 15” drawer base with 12”+/- interior drawer space.

Also, If you have a tight budget do not go to a 36” range. More $$$.

On appliances, you have both function and aesthetics. I prefer the look of a slide-in or pro-style range (without the raised panel in the back), but you can cook a perfectly good meal on a standard range, which costs less.

Our island place has a 30” GE propane stove with the raised back (maybe eight years old) and a large sauté pan fits poorly on the back burners. They may have changed that. Otherwise, it has five burners with continuous grates, convection oven and self cleaning.

Do you have natural gas or propane? Most of the pro ranges are not self cleaning. AJ Madison is a good place to check for models based on features.

As for fridges, counter depth is better looking, but generally more expensive, and taller, which affects your cabinets. As for capacity, that’s personal. Do you drink a lot of soda? Do you have a separate deep freeze or second fridge in the garage?

You said you have a large pantry. Will you have a freezer there? Maybe you could get a 36” fridge only column in your kitchen, thus giving you more space for cabinets.

Think long and hard about open shelving above your fridge. Which of your kids will you bribe to get a ladder and go up there to dust it?

@latifolia We will have propane for the range. I do a lot of canning so it would be nice to have the wider range. I wish they made one like we had in our old farmhouse. It was 36" or 48" I believe and had a glass cutting board/prep space on the right of the burners with a double side by side oven below; it was great for canning! The good ole days!

I realize narrow drawers aren't ideal but I planned on just putting utensils/oven mitts and maybe spices in them and having narrow pizza pans on the right of the stove. Right now I have a total of 5 drawers in our current homes kitchen so with this kitchen plan I will have way more than that. We have space in the garage for a deep freeze since we usually have a calf butchered and we will have a second refrigerator either in the basement or garage.

Here's how I used the 15" on each side of our range top. Interior width is 12.25". On the left is a Rev a Shelf pullout for utensils and knives with space underneath for bowls. On the right is a deep drawer/pullout with three sections for baking sheets, cooking racks, splatter screens and foil with a separate drawer above for pot holders and oven mitts.

Take a look at the 30” ranges. I have a 5-burner Bosch with a central power burner. You will get a lot more features for less money than the 36” ranges.

I make a lot of chutney, which (in an abundance of caution) I process in a boiling water canner on the central burner. These better new ranges have continuous grates, so you can put pots anywhere on the top without them tipping.

Your old set-up looks like you didn’t have adjacent counter space, which will not be the case in your new home.

Of course your new kitchen will be better than what you have now! Maybe a better way to look at it is making sure it is the best within your space and budget.

I think a 30” range with wider cabinets on each side will make a more functional kitchen and cost you less.

Ah yes, I cant wait. That range is in our falling in farmhouse. I’ve been cooking on a four burner gas range that has pilot lights no electric and just hoping our new build gets finished before the oven bottom rusts out lol!

I’m sorry but you are moving in the wrong direction and making it even more cramped. The goal should be to make it seem much more spacious.

K H, Cook's Kitchen has a good point. I haven't read all the comments upthread so not sure if this has been suggested but I would consider moving the pantry door where you currently have the dryer. If you move the dryer left of the washing machine it will be easier to vent. If you can scoot the range wall and the island to the right by a foot or two you really wouldn't be losing pantry space and that would allow you to connect the countertops to have a true 'L' plus island, giving you bigger drawers and uppers, more counter space, shorter vent run for the hood and overall greater functionality.

I haven't read everything, but I read where you are framed. You can still move framing for a change order for a fee. Probably not too much in the scheme of things.

If you remove walls on both sides of your stove and cut back on the pantry, you could gain some space around the stove. Maybe 12 inches. Without the walls on either side, the stove wall would feel more open.

Make the pantry door a 28 inch pocket door. To the right of the pocket door, put in a tall pantry cabinet with doors on top and drawers on the bottom half to hold your pots. The top half could have slots for cookie sheet and pans.

that layout is not user friendly. imagine boiling pasta, fill up at sink go around corner of island, then take boiling water back. No. That's dangerous water tripping or splashing hot water. At the very least put a prep sink in island near stove. Honestly, I rework the layout & get a better user flow.

Maybe burners in the island and wall oven microwave combo where stove is?

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