I'm just worried that what we are doing will look like a pathetic attempt to dress up out-of-style oak cabinets by slapping a nice slab of granite on them.

Function, convenience, ease of use, plenty of storage, easy to maintain and inviting..... These things are much more important to me than sophistication.

I'm not going for "sophisticated" so there's no worry. I'm going for a look that fits this 100 year old Midwestern home: a period, low-key, warm and functional look.

I much prefer to look at real individual kitchens than magazine kitchens. They give me more inspiration and admiration because some had small budgets and pulled off miracles. Others had tiny floor plans and pulled off even bigger miracles. Form and function are my favorite things to see over size, sophistication and dollars spent.

To be honest, when I first started planning our remodel I did lust after a magazine kitchen! I tried to force it into our mid-1990s average house (not a McMansion like so many built...and still being built all around us...we went for a 3-acre lot over a huge house). I was very insistent that I needed all those things I saw in the magazines...the island, pro-style appliances, expensive cabinets (Impressions by St. James), etc.

But, then I found GW. I know that many people say their kitchens cost more b/c of GW, but in many cases, for us, it did save money.

While I had GWers tear apart my kitchen and work w/me on a design that would actually work in our space, I read, read, read both here and the Appliances Forum. I came to realize that I wanted a kitchen that actually functioned as a kitchen for us. I also realized that I really didn't need all those pro-style appliances. And, lastly, I learned to "follow my heart"...which lead me to our current cherry, stained cabinets.

No, my kitchen isn't "sophisticated" nor is it full of pro-style appliances (and nope, no island), but it works so well for us! It is over-improved for our neighborhood and the rest of the house, but since this is (I hope) our forever home, I don't really care! We're also gradually upgrading the rest of the house as we go along...DIY thanks to GW!

So, someone else can have those magazine-spread kitchens, I'll take mine over theirs any day!

BTW...like others here, I now look at those magazine spreads with a "GW" eye...is it really functional? Does it make sense? Do all those elements really work together? Most of those kitchens do not pass my "GW Test"!

I never really worried about my kitchen being sophisticated because the area I'm in is the land of the 1950's kitchen. Pretty much if you have 1) a kitchen that is eat-in and more than just a bistro table eat-in, 2)have decent cabinets that were installed somewhere in the last 20 years and 3)countertops other than white formica you are doing well. By those standards our kitchen, even if it isn't someone's specific taste, is quite nice. Since neither my husband and I are huge cooks, and we don't entertain a lot - we pretty much designed our kitchen to fit our lifestyle. I do sometimes envy the kitchens that have the huge island for entertaining but then reality sets in and for us to have the island, we would not have had the kitchen table. When I think of our memories in the kitchen with the kids - I can't picture it with a layout other than what we decided on. The kids like to say that they helped pick out the items. My youngest insists she picked out the backsplash. My oldest (a toddler when we did the renovation 3 years ago) was taken all over creation as we picked out cabinets, tiles, appliances etc. so she knows she was a part of the process.

Now where I did want a little more sophistication was the living room/dining room. We had an interior designer help us. For me, it wasn't so much that I wanted a show piece but I had so many issues with the room that I knew no amount of HGTV would help and the time trying to figure out how to solve the problems would be time not spent with my family. I will admit part of the kick start was being at another person's house and having envy because she had such a great layout for entertaining in her living room/dining room and sunroom. What I love with the end result is besides looking great - we finally have a place to put everything - where we put down our keys and cell phones upon walking thru the door, where the kids can put away toys, where they can watch t.v., where we store the DVDs that we let them put in. It works for how we live everday but also for those occasions we want to have people over.

So for kelleg the true test of the kitchen is that it meets the needs of your family and when you look at it 3 years or even 5 years later you are happy with your choices. It's also good if you have good memories of planning the kitchen along the way or rather of building something with your family. When I was in the quest for the house with a bigger master bedroom (that would NOT be a 1950's house unless the previous owners built an addition), DH was against it not just because of the financial aspect but because of all the memories (you know the blood, sweat, and tears) of updating the house together.

If you feel there was a function in your friend's house that you were missing - do you need more storage because you are a Costco shopper, or you don't have a place to put shoes when you walk thru the front door - that's one thing. Otherwise I wouldn't worry. Focus on the memories you hope to create in your new kitchen :)

Every time I renovate something I worry that when I am done it will not be as good as I want it to be.

The first time we did a house I was fairly concerned that it "measured up" to everyone else's place. I spent time assiduously copying things that I saw in nice magazines and bigger "more important" houses than ours.

Whe we were done it looked nice and was certainly sophisticated but it had no soul and was not at all reflective of us. We never spent any time in there.

Now I don't worry about 'sophisticated' or what the rest of the world thinks. I worry about how we are going to feel when we are finished. Did we get the stuff that we wanted and that we thought was beautiful ? Are we filling the place with things that we truly love or are we heading off on some harebrained tangent ? Is it the kind of room I want to curl up in alone and drink coffee for hours ? Is it also the room I want to sit in with some friends and some wine ?
Is there room for friends and family ? Are the seats comfy ?

Nothing says 'overdesigned' to me the way uncomfortable seating does.

Trust yourself. If you think it is beautiful - it is. If you think it's sophisticated - it is. Don't ever feel that there is only one kind of perfection.

A kitchen, or any room, that doesn't tell stories about the people who live and laugh and love in it is a cold place indeed.

No offense intended to anyone, but after reading this thread, who would ever believe this country is in the worst economic times in modern history. I think we have alot more to worry about than how good our kitchen's look to others.

True, Mcleashg, but we can't worry ALL the time, or even most of the time. Can't even spend ALL our time rearranging our portfolios, stashing cash and food, and updating our resumes just in case. Personally, I drop in here instead of going jogging. It's more fun. And instead of going shopping--sadly not more fun, but at least fantasizing about how to spend other people's money is a low-budget activity. :)

Regarding "sophistication," i.e, fine style, a talented designer can put a collection of junk in a '60s tract house bedroom and create something appropriate for the cover of DecPorn Magazine.

McLeashg: No offense taken. Everyone certainly is very concerned and aware of the economy we're in. That doesn't mean that other subjects (kitchens) can't be discussed. Even though the media would make you think that everyone in the US has millions on credit cards and huge mortgages that can't be afforded/paid, there are MANY people who live within their means and save up for the things in life that we want. Like kitchens! DH and I have always tried to "do the right" thing financialy. We've always lived below our means. It helps us to sleep at night. It seems though that that may not be enough now. Time will tell. But in the meantime I will not worry about the economy every waking moment! Just can't go there.

I love reading GW! It definitely helped me see my new kitchen renovation with a GW eye. I too didn't get high end appliances. They just were not right for my lifestyle and budget. BUT, that doesn't mean that they are not right for someone else. When I first started with my layout I couldn't wait to put an island in. After really thinking about it and researching it, I realized it was not a good idea for my space for many reasons. I'm SO enjoying my new peninsula.

I enjoy seeing everyone's choices with their kitchens. I love the sophisticated ones, the rustic ones, the big/little ones! They're all so beautiful! It does sometimes make me wonder if I made the right choices. I think that's just human nature.

Thanks for starting this thread Kelleg, I've enjoyed reading it!

Barb

Now wait a minute.

Really, this is a forum about design. In some ways it is the participants' form of escapism. (This is a phenomenon similar to why people loved shows like Beverly Hillbillies and Green acres during Vietnam--only on a different level)

Just because we can engage in a discussion regarding design does not mean we do not have concerns about the economy (which I think the media is fanning the flames) and other world events.

However if there Were a forum about politics, the economy, and the world on here I would Not read it. This is not the place for it. I am sure many people on here though, could engage in a well-informed discussion about any of the above.

In Fact, I resent lifestyle magazines who were showing gigantic houses and $5000 chairs and $20,000 purses (true)--two years ago trying to jump on the "green" and "tighten our belts" bandwagon to sell magazines.

I don't worry about "sophisticated" as that wouldn't describe what I'd want for my kitchen. But I also don't worry about how my kitchen compares with others. In general I don't compare what I have to what others have. You can always find someone who has something more and/or something "better". Anyone who is able to do any kind of kitchen remodel right now is very lucky and can be thankful for that good fortune. I tend to look at things that way - how fortunate I am compared to many rather than what someone else may have that I do not have.

Well... I might as well face it... I'm not sophisticated so I guess my kitchen won't be either! Really... I just want it to be a reflection of me and my family.

Great conversation! We're in the midst of construction and have nary a decision or two left to make (cabinets knobs/pulls) and ... some lighting ... and, oh, the backsplash ...

My main worry about the kitchen is not whether it is sophisticated enough or not. My main worry is whether it I'm going to be happy with it or not. I'd parse out my happiness for the kitchen to be 60% functionality, 30% good looks and 10% "wow" factor. I'd equate "wow" with sophistication.

Our kitchen is used heavily; we both cook, we bake an unbelievable amount and we entertain, to some degree or another, about 10 - 12 times a year. I do want to be able to spend time in a very usable, beautiful space. I also won't be disappointed when guests are somewhat impressed when they finally do see our project.

So many decisions have gone into this year+ project from early planning to final choices. Some of the decisions were purely functional (we chose Thermador ovens even though there are "prettier" ovens available) while others were made for good looks and a little "wow" without sacrificing functionality (the range hood - little bit of style but not outlandish). Our cooktop choice (Dacor 5 burner) is a strong example where we went practical rather than Sophisticated; a range top, induction, pro-style range or even professional stove are all more showy choices.

My advice: suit yourself (and that includes having a showoff kitchen if that is what you want (and can afford)).

Here is a link that might be useful: akitchenremodel.com

I don't think I have kitchen envy, but an admiration for what others have done with their budgets and spaces. I love to see a space that works well and has an owner that is pleased with the function and form of that space. I admire those who fit the kitchen into the overall design of the home and don't begrudge anyone spending 200,000 on a kitchen remodel anymore than I pity someone who only has 1000.00 to upgrade their space. We all try to have spaces we like to live in and feel comfortable in. There are kitchens here that I am amazed at. Some( like the home that wouldn't sell) amaze me with what they can do for a very small amount of money and some that amaze me with how little they seem to get for what I paid for my house! Sophisticated is in the eye of the beholder.
A local custom cabinet maker had a client in right before he saw me. He was smirking as we talked about my budget. I asked why. He said the previous customer told him she wanted a space her friends would all envy, but that she did not care about the budget. She also didn't really care about the function as she didn't cook. She was getting 70,000 worth of kitchen without the appliances just to have her friends envy her. She had children at home, but did not cook. Had lined up a 50,000 appliance package with wolf and subzero, but didn't know anything about them except that they were the ones her friends would lust over. Huh? I think most people on this forum lust after a nice functional space and we admire those kitchens that work best for their owners , regardless of cost or level of sophistication! I know I do.

I don't equal money spent with sophistication. Honestly, I think that some of those $250K kitchens are the height of vulgarity. (notice I said Some)

I have seen tiny kitchenettes in NYC apartments that are little more than a hotplate, microwave and refrigerator that are Very sophisticated in terms of the planning that went into them.

Kelleg,

Rereading your original post, (after spending a couple of days reading all the responses)- I think what you may have felt, was that your neighbour was perhaps more successful in 'pulling things together'. When you used the word 'sophisticated' and magazine like- I immediately thought to myself that isn't what I would be going for. But I can understand the fear of all the elements not meshing regardless of which look one is trying to achieve.

I have five sisters. Two can transform a room with a can of paint and some accessories- the other three have varying levels of budget and un-success with decorating/renovating their homes. I think I fall in between- I don't have the natural flair of the two, but I work harder than the other three. I think I've been successful with my kitchen, the living room has eluded me... (where do I go on GW for help with that...? :>), and I'm almost there with our Master BR.

I think being good at anything takes practice, and how many times do we get to 'practice' building/renovating a kitchen? I'm unfamiliar with your kitchen- have you finished it already?

"the living room has eluded me... (where do I go on GW for help with that...? "

raehelen... try the home decorating forum

Wow I never thought my comments would render any responses, but I'm glad you took the time to do so.

I am no different than anyone else here who loves beautiful things and has planned, hoped and saved for the things I've wanted in life. Yet, as an outsider to the KF up until today, it confirms my thoughts that there are really so many people who still are living in the financally comfortable coccoon of the past years, and who, through their own good fortune and hard work, do not have to worry whether they will have enough money to retire or send their kid to school, but rather are fretting about whether their new kitchen is keeping them up with the Jones'. Again, I have had the doubts that you all have expressed after spending alot of $$$ --- and then have had the second thoughts about the final product. However, at this point in time, IMHO I think we need to readjust our priorities as a culture, as it was these priorities (as illustrated by "Architectual Digest") which got us here in the first place! End of lecture. The best to you all and enjoy your lovely new kitchens as I am enjoying mine,

Funny, I was not even going to jump into this thread because it kind of pushed a button for me. All along, I've been insisting on wanting a warm and inviting kitchen (like the one I'm replacing). Indeed, I've often said that the kitchens I love most are the ones that look like they were made for "real people". At the same time, after I discovered this forum, I continually found myself worrying that my tastes are too "folksy" for a dream kitchen. So, I went and hired an ID (BEFORE the economy went haywire, btw) and I believe that I now have a pretty "sophisticated" looking kitchen. At the same time, now that I have this rather polished kitchen, I'm now working with putting in the finishing touches that will bring it back to center and make it the warm and down-to-earth space I've known as a kitchen my whole life. Go figure!

As for Kelleg's initial inquiry,I have to agree with Raehelen. When I went back and looked at her opening post, I didn't get that she was struggling with how to keep up with the Joneses at all! Instead, I think this thread may have started trending in that direction by some of the responses to it. And, most of us know, once a question is put out on an online forum -- the resulting thread can drift far and wide away from the original post. I also agree with Palimpset. After all, this is a forum devoted to kitchen design and building, renovating, refreshing, facelifting,etc. What else should be the primary point of our conversations? And, while I daresay all of us are likely affected by the current economic crisis (or at least knows someone very close to us who is), there is no income threshold or limitation imposed on the GW kitchen forum. Thank goodness!

Mcleashg -- I honestly don't get the sense that you meant to offend anyone. At the same time, whenever I see an opening statement in a post such as "No offense intended to anyone. . . ." I'd say that's generally a dead giveaway that the poster suspects some one will be offended nonetheless. I just think that sometimes, when entering an online forum for the very first time, it's helpful to test the waters with introductory commentary that has less potential for misinterpretation.

Just my 2 cents.

Well, some of us don't worry about the economy all the time, per se....it is just a part of our every day lives. We weren't ever able to buy the house of our dreams, just a well built little 70s raised ranch house in a good neighborhood with a good school. It's what we could afford. And we can't afford to gut rooms, change the floor plan, or add space to get our ideal. We had to work with what we had. Yet, I think we are really lucky compared to many.

Our kitchen face lift doesn't have the polish of most GW kitchens, but it works for us. I kinda like it now.

I have to admit that sometimes I am a bit envious of the gorgeous kitchens....some not even that large, just, well....sophisticated, as the OP stated. And I am a bit envious of being able to actually have exactly what you want.

But then I realize I am a very casual person without sophisticated tastes. Although I love seeing the nice granite and ss appliances in others' homes, neither of these suit me....they don't speak to me or fit with who I am.

For the most part, I've learned to appreciate without envy.

Marthavila, your observation (as with those of many others)is as legitimate as mine. There is no right nor wrong on these message boards.The truth is only in the eye of the beholder. I was not pointing a finger to kelleg, it was to the whole tone/content of the post. As far as being new to KF, I am not new to other boards on GW, and perhaps my fresh eye is more sensitive than to those who have visited here often. Please don't over think this; this is not about money but about our priorities that are key to today's economy.

Fair enough, mcleashg. If we actually knew each other, I think we'd be surprised about how much on which we actually agree . . . including this very subtopic you have introduced. Speaking of misinterpretation -- I wasn't rejecting your opinion but rather offering some advice on your approach. But, hey, as you say, that's just my opinion and nothing more! Indeed, in this tanking economy it may not even be worth 2 cents! :)

What, me worry?!

Raehelen, you hit the nail on the head--you expressed what I was trying to say. I am worried about it all meshing. I thought I would be really good at this "design" stuff--that is why I really wanted to build a house. I have kind of figured out that I am not good at it. I am ok when I have something to start with, but from scratch is tough for me. I have made some bad decisions along the way and it makes me sick to my stomach. I feel like most of the kitchens on this forum come together SO well and I just don't feel like mine will even though I have put a lot of thought into it. Also, I do think whoever said practice helps is right on. This is the first (and last) time I will do this and there is definitely a learning curve!

Meghane, I LOVE your kitchen. Things like your gekkos are darling to me. Thanks for sharing b/c it does remind me that going with your heart makes your space interesting.

I just don't want to spend this money (a lot of money) and in the end think I wasted money.

Not wanting to prolong the off-topic segment of this thread too much but...

I am not understanding how my affinity for nice fixtures led to the current financial difficulties some find themselves in.

Although we don't discuss economics in the kitchen forum, anymore than we discuss cars, medical issues or knitting, I think about the economy a lot, and how best to make sure that the people who work for us don't end up unemployed and hungry. So far we've done okay and we'll get through because we are all pulling together.

But I am certainly not going to stop spending money on things I like and want and have worked to be able to afford, nor am I going to encourage anyone else to. I am going to discourage everyone from going into debt right now to renovate a kitchen. That's a pretty bad idea.

The reason that we are in a recession is because every seven to ten years they happen. Come heaven or high hemlines - they happen.

The reason it is so bad this time is that a lot of already rich people decided they weren't rich enough and thought it was worth lying, cheating and stealing to see how much more they could get. A lot of them will be off to jail over the next few years and we'll get back to normal. Think of the "robber barons" about 120 years ago.

So: the "recession" is part of the business cycle.

The "banking crisis" and the associated mortgage foreclosures that have been so devastating for so many is happpening because a large number of criminals getting caught.

The auto industry problems are the result of building too many cars of a type that people don't want to buy.

Unfortunate that they are all occurring at the same time, but the worst thing that the people who still have some money left can do is stop spending now. We don't have as much to spend as we used to, but the only way to make things better is to get it back out there into circulation.

So get out there and shop ! Just make sure you are shopping with your own money.

Awww Sailor...I'd have so much more fun if I was shopping with your money :oP

The comment that those who have saved or worked hard or whatever and aren't worried about their position in the economy started out as a nice thought. Until the ending which suggested those folks were just building to keep up with the Jonesess. What a judgemental thing to say, and probably not true of most of the posters I see here on GW. While the lovely Jones family across the street or across the world might inspire the Smith families remodel, inspire is not the same as compete. Maybe the lovely Smith family just wants a nice kitchen and they can afford one and don't need to be judged inappropriately???

Back OT, I'll easily admit I was looking for a magazine quality home when we embarked on our remodel three years ago and that focus stayed with me throughout the entire process. I wanted to see the evolution of a fabulous home, which included both function and design in the process. When we're finished we are committed to two magazines (discounts!!) and I think it will be fun to stage the house for the shoot.

But the reality of our world is that while someday the house might be "Magazine Worthy" in it's best moments (probably only for an hour after the housekeeper has visited) it's still our home. My beautiful wood floors currently have a huge thomas the train track snaking all over them...making it somewhat impossible to mop up the foot prints from DS who was testing his ability to track soda around the room earlier today.

Our beautiful kitchen is always ALWAYS filled with crumbs...where do they come from? I always need to sweep up LOL and then they crawl back out of the cabinet or whereever they were hiding and dot my floo two seconds later.

I often have to move a box to open the front door because we take deliveries there and I still don't have full use of my arm after my house tried to kill me last year so I have to wait for DH to move them.

My pretty staircase seems to attract cat fur tumbleweeds within seconds of vacumming the five flights (I think they all roll to the bottom as I work my way up).

So "magazine" style just means you've probably got an interesting room that others might want to see on a clean day :) Which is a combination of being pulled together well, showing interesting elements, and having good function (not always necessary as noted above). But for almost anyone, magazine ready is a whole different can of worms LOL I can tell you this...if they visited today I wouldn't make the Good Houskeeping Woman of the Year any time soon!!!

I also just can't get my mind wrapped around the world sophisticated when it comes to design. I don't mean I don't get it, but sometimes the focus ends up being ritzy, expensive and COLD when designers focus on the sophistication factor as priority one. If someone were to describe my home I'd rather hear the words "quirky and fun or well put together, interesting design, lovely textures" etc, but sophisticated??? NNEeehhh 5' tall red heads never acheive anything above cute when growing up :oP And my home probably never would either. I'm afraid I'm much more turned on by "quirky" than "sophisticated" :o) And really, you just can't acheive sophistication sitting in my elegant little dining room...with a chicken butt staring you in the face :oP (if you've not seen my chandelier you'll just have to imagine a wonderful iron chandelier...with a rooster resting right in the middle) heh heh

OT, I know, I apologize in advance.

The worst thing to do for many reasons is to sit at home and worry about this big economic mess.
Worry is not good for the economy, it is not good for one's health nor is it good for one's emotional state.

Save what you need to for sure, but for those who have extra income and a good savings plan, please for all of us spend your money. I certainly still plan on going out to eat, buying things for my new home, paying people to finish new home, etc.

If you would like to help even more, volunteer in a soup kitchen, they are fuller than ever right now, donate to food banks, help in agencies that are trying to house and find jobs for the many who are without employment.

mcleashg --
But please, don't assume because we want to talk about our kitchens that you know we have nothing else we think about, or no other priorities. In fact contrary to your statement a great many of us are dealing with things that go way beyond this forum. We deal with sickness, children's health, divorce, death, pets, politics, job loss, and any number of things on a daily basis. Many come here to de-stress, to share , to lighten the load so to speak.

I find it very disheartening to have someone that I don't recognize here, start lecturing about the fact that there are more important things in this world right now. In fact we here all know there are definitely more important things & in fact if you had history with us you may realize we have actually solved most of them .

ROTFL!!! I bet the chicken butt chair is the choicest in Igloo's house! And while it may not qualify for her definition of sophisticated, the lady has style.

I'm in the been saving for this kitchen for seven years camp. I was sick during part of that time so didn't care about the awful appliances every day of that time, but I also think this is the wrong time to decide to put up with them any longer when I have the money set aside. I don't live high, so this kitchen is amazingly self indulgent, but I expect to have it for the rest of my life.

Just last night I found the most amazing pulls. They're gorgeous. And I looked at them and thought they were just too fancy for my kitchen, not in their style, but in their hand made and glowing polish-ness. They kind of made my eyes hurt with their beauty. They made the rest of me hurt with their price. That self-indulgent I'm not!!!

But you know how we're always saying when you see it, you'll know it? I was worried my sleek kitchen was getting very fussy and frumpy with the hardware, and then these other knobs showed up. They're somewhat expensive (about double Restoration Hardware) but not unutterably dear (the beauteous pulls were orders of magnitude more than RH). And, while being perfect, and pretty, and having other hardware which will go with them, the knobs are also sleek, and modern and much more sophisticated than what I'd been looking at before. In fact, if the samples work out, I think they're going to be the making of my kitchen design.

Put me down as less worried today...

I think we all need to relax about our kitchens, decisions, the economy, etc. I had the opportunity to work with a designer to pull my kitchen together because, like Kelleg has stated, I think I am good at design, but my past decisions on my own indicate that I am not! The irony of having a designer help me though, is now I expect my kitchen to look "designeresk" whenever someone drops by! I am constantly apologizing for this mess or that. So, when I read Igloos post I related so well. I have four kids and we live hard in our home!

What I am trying to get across is that whether you used a designer to hopefully get that designer kitchen or whether you used your own acumen, everyone has issues!

Again, we all need to relax, count our blessings, and soak up our kitchens and all they do for our families and friends; especially in these crazy economic times!

Amen, Acountryfarm! Amen!

And, Igloo, I must say, I don't know of any designers who focus on "sophistication" as their priority but I have known of those who will try to substitute their own vision for that of their clients. IMHO, that is not good design practice at all! Instead, a good designer's priority should be to understand his or her client's vision/desires, lifestyle, footprint and budget then help them to execute that vision in a way that works best. As Kelleg clarified, "sophistication" in that sense means bringing the many disparate parts of a massive project together -- a functional and aesthetic meshing of a whole so to speak -- such that none of the critical elements are missing, the accents aren't discordant or superfluous and it all "works."

Like Kelleg, I thought rather highly of my own design instincts when I first began remodeling my kitchen over 2 years ago. However, like her, I made so many mistakes, and wasted so much money because, quite frankly, I had great ideas but lacked "sophistication" in how to implement them. Even so, when I finally broke down and hired an ID (as a last ditch effort to stop wasting time and money on my reno)I was the one who chose nearly all of the elements that now comprise my kitchen, not the ID. Yet, the majority of my choices arose out of so many conversations with my ID who helped me to better understand and appreciate basic design concepts (e.g. proportion, spacing, color, lighting, textures, etc.) There is no question in my mind that, with the assistance of a trained professional, I was helped to realize my vision of a kitchen remodel in a way that is substantially more "sophisticated" than one I would have created on my own. I realize that not everyone will need or want this kind of help with their remodel. But, I feel blessed that when I finally acknowledged I did need it, I was able to get it. Now, I just need to bring in those final personal touches like artwork, collectibles, plants, etc., which should also make it clear that my "sophisticated" new kitchen is also the heart and hearth of my old home. :)

Stiles, we must have been simultaneously cross posting. Amen to your comments as well! :)

You know it's funny, for awhile I worried that my kitchen may feel too formal and thus unapproachable. That our friends and family may feel it's TOO sophisticated and feel uncomfortable in it. I actually found that it was the "well-loved" aspects...scratches and dings on the hardwood floor, nicks and chips on the painted cabinets, and our personal items like the utensils holder, bowls and cups, salt and pepper shakers, etc. that brought my kitchen up a notch. The imperfections bugged me at first, and the clutter of personal items made it feel less "perfect" and styled...now I realize they give my kitchen character and meaning.

The kitchens featured in magazines are all across the board in terms of style. What makes them magazine worthy is the styling, attention to detail, thoughtful layout. I can appreciate and admire these things from an aesthetic point of view. But in the end, the kitchen is simply another room to enjoy life in.

Sometimes I feel a bit awkward when I look at a finished kitchen post. I feel like I'm commenting on a purely visual perspective, i.e. how it looks, when I know very well that there is a much deeper value that the pictures don't show. That's why I like reading about details on why the person chose what they did, seeing the before and after (and thus understanding the work that went behind it), and getting a background on the personal touches. I think these things make a kitchen special, rather than just "beautiful". I've had girlfriends in the past who were beautiful and yet were very unhappy. I would hate to admire a beautiful kitchen on GW where the homeowners were broke and in debt by spending above their means, or not entirely happy with the outcome because they see others' kitchens and envy them and wish they made other choices.

I have mixed feelings about this sharing of kitchen photos on the forum...it almost invites comparison. Yet, I hope that we can focus on celebrating our accomplishments - the fact that someone has been fortunate enough to renovate their kitchen. What a feat!! That's another reason why the post "is there a kitchen here we didn't like" really bugs me. It just takes away from the whole purpose of this forum, which is to share information, learn from each other, and celebrate both the adventures and outcomes of our finished kitchens.

My kitchen came out exactly as I had envisioned it before we broke ground on our house. I found gardenweb at some point during construction and upgraded a few things, but it isn't grand or sophisticated. I'm not grand or sophisticated, LOL. Spend enough time here and you can get a bad case of kitchen envy, but relative to *my* world my kitchen is better than any I saw when househunting. My friends and family think it's over the top because nobody has pro-style appliances or weird sounding foreign brands like "Bosch". :) I love, love love my new kitchen.

kelleg/OP...I can totally understand your original post, its scary when
you do all the design yourself, you worry that the end space will not have
the flair you imagined. If you continue with your "own style" with what you
love, it will turn into "your" kitchen and thats what matters. I felt the same
exact way.

acountryfarm...oh so well said.

vic

You are all so helpful. It is weird b/c there are so many things involved. I don't trust myself and I have had pros helping, but honestly, I am not sure they are that good--or at least as good as I want them to be. Today, I realized that I will have a lot less space than I thought. I have inset cabs and got mainly drawers on the bottoms. Well, they turned out way smaller than I thought. I wish my KD had told me this would happen. I really thought through where everything would go, but she didn't really spell out that I would need to remove 2 inches from each side and from the top, etc. I am kind of freaking out. Then, the custom cabinet maker hangs my cabinets higher than I wanted. This how he always does them. How would I know? Ugh. This is quite a process and yes, the economy does weigh on me. The stock market goes down every day with no end in sight... I feel sick that I am spending all this money and then I won't have as much storage as I have in my kitchen now. I guess I can learn to put things in different places, etc. but I feel like I am making a compromise that I didn't want to make. This whole process has been about accepting things the way they come out. Sorry--I am venting!

The answer is "YES" but the question is
"What can you do"

:)

POORowner

Am I nuts or is it strange that someone would go onto a kitchen forum site and complain that posters are discussing kitchens ?

In my daydream, I'm very sophisticated. Then, I open my eyes and my 2 year old is rubbing yogurt on the dog's back. I am just excited that soon she'll be rubbing yogurt on the dog's back in a new kitchen!! (while I herd them away from my new island) :)

Igloochic:

Had to reread a couple of times to determine which line seemed judgemental - am thinking it's the "discourage people from going into debt for a kitchen" phrase.

I certainly didn't mean to disparage anyone's motives, and I apologise wholeheartedly if anyone was offended. I probably should have made myself clearer. I don't think that borrowing money right now is a good idea regardless of what it gets spent on. Things are just too uncertain everywhere. Mind you, I don't think borrowing money at anytime is a good idea so I'm probably a bit biased...

I don't think very many people here are doing their kitchens to impress others - there is too much thought that goes into the practicality and function of the designs. Certainly we all want attractive rooms as well but it's not the number one factor.

Anyhow - No point in belaboring the issue, hope none were offended and this is my lesson not to pursue OT things in the wrong thread :)

OHHHH NO SAILORMAN! I was not talking about your comments (aside from wanting to shop with your money which is always more fun than shopping with my own). I should have clarified that better. I made the joke about your money :) but was talking about the other poster who had disparaged folks talking about kitchens in a kitchen forum (and who pointed out the people spending money are keeping up with the jonses).

So please, do take my appology...I was in no way directing the critical part of my conversation up there at you :)

It was probably my "over-improved" statement that prompted the "keeping up with the Jones'" statement. My point was that I was doing my kitchen for ME, not my neighbors or some future buyers...me and me alone (OK, DH as well!) I.e., definitely NOT "keeping up with the Jones'"!

I tend to think that "keeping up with Jones" is an inevitable subtext of this kind of forum. As someone who worked on a kitchen without a single premium finish (maybe the BM Aura paint?) and has limited DIY skills I initially wasn't so sure that it was a good fit for the type of reno I was working on. We weren't going to get the bang for our buck a DIYer would nor did my Mom have the resources for the lovely premium finishes that so many folks were using.
Initially I was pretty content to lurk until I read a post by a forum veteran where she talked about how pleased she was with her finished kichen but at the same time she was openly a little sheepish about what it had cost. That sort of emboldened me to put aside what were mostly my issues and join and participate in the forum. Candidly beyond the terrific information and generous environment in the end the forum really helped me to focus on looking at the benefits, performance and appearance of the materials we were using and not be concerned about whatever anyone else was doing which is much more in keeping with how I approach things anyway (one of the chief advantages of a family history of disenfranchisement).

kelleg - I'm sorry things aren't turning out as well as you hoped. Are all your cabinets installed? Have you tried fitting things in your drawers and just can't fit? Not much you can do about that (except prune your belongings). I thought I was getting a lot more space too but found as much as I love my pot drawers by the stove (instead of getting on my knees and digging in a corner cabinet) I just can't stack things like I did in a cabinet. So the stock pot is in the island behind the cookie sheets and may even end up in the attic since I only use it once a year. All my Wilton cake pans are in the attic (was basement in old house) b/c I just couldn't fit walkin pantry into floor plan. Might have a bit more room once I take the wineglasses out of the boxes that I just shoved into the cabinets on move-in day 18 months ago.

As far as upper cabinets, have installer lower them to where *you* want them. If you told him (hopefully in writing) b4 he started, then he can (pay for) patching and repainting above cabinets if necessary. Stand your ground! I wish I had said something to builder about cabinet to right of my stove being 'wiggly" when I shut the drawer - turns out they broke the corner block connecting the side and back of cabinet (particleboard) when they installed it (screwed too tightly to wall that wasn't square?) and now I have to pay someone to "make it better" b/c it really can't be fixed short of buying a new cabinet. Your upper cabinet height affects the backsplash too - if installer doesn't want to lower and repaint, he can pay for the extra materials and labor to do a taller backsplash!

I agree, my kitchen is lacking and with ALL that planning I ended up with a kitchen that is "not" my favorite on this forum. But....my kitchen is more up to date and functional.

The recession....well. I heard a statistic that 90% of all households remain uneffected. People are still working their previous jobs, living like they were before the recession. (remember; gas prices have come down, interest rates have come down). That's good news.

I finally had a kitchen plan that I thought would meet my needs, and selected cabinet maker, etc. But during this harsh winter, the more times I went up and down 2 flights (to the basement) to do laundry in the cold basement, I decided my $ would be better spent to put a full bath, laundry/pantry/mudroom and screened porch off the current kitchen. Ironically it was in the search for a kitchen carpenter that I lucked onto a great guy that actually does more 'additions' than kitchens.

But through visiting this forum for over a year, it has helped me so much to better realize just what my kitchen needs for the future. It won't be fancy partly because it is a small house and I figured what a % of the market value would be reasonable to spend in the redo. I've made the mistake in the past making one room look glorious and then it made the adjoining rooms look trashy.....

For now, it is functional for a single person. I had to set my priorities. Also the kitchen porn mags just keep getting way past my budget and assume everyone has an L shaped kitchen, wants a island, and has large footage to deal with including high ceilings! Sigh! I don't know why I keep buying them!!!

I guess I am just one of those eccentric people that believes in putting my life style and function before style. At 62 I do have to think of function in the years ahead.

I hang around this and a few other forums even though I haven't remodeled my kitchen since 2003. Well, actually, it was 1989/90 when we gutted the house and the "new" kitchen was installed. In 2003 all we did was put in new flooring and countertops...my initial amateur attempt at kitchen design in 1989 actually turned out pretty well. A few mistakes but nothing earthshattering. Maybe I was just lucky.

Actually, in our neighborhood we ARE the Joneses. The only other people who have installed fancy new kitchens are the ones who bulldozed the original small house and popped up a larger duplex atop our bigger-than-average city lots. Most long-time homeowners in my area are using original 1930's and 1940's kitchens. With the downturn in the market I don't foresee many remodels taking place here. This is a starter neighborhood; Ikea cabs are considered fancy (which they are, compared to the built-in-place flimsy wood originals most HO have).

Because my kitchen is nicely functional, but also 19 yrs old and done on the proverbial shoestring (okay, maybe two shoestrings), it lacks many design and style features I see in photos (both pro and amateur) nowadays. Big kitchens and pro-style appliances weren't around when I was originally running up my credit cards at Home Depot.

But I feel lucky; most of my family and friends are suffering with their much more dated, much less functional original kitchens. I have 30' of countertop space, and wonderful Kraftmaid frameless semi-custom cabs, with spice pullouts, roll-out double pantries, EZ reach upper corners, Lazy Susan corner bases - all useful things that are way beyond what even remodeled kitchens have around here, and are only dreams for most of my neighbors. They envy our double-pane picture windows, high ceilings, recessed lights - heck, most of them don't even have an exhaust fan!

If I had a spare $50K, or even $35K, I'd update this kitchen into something more photo-worthy. But the layout would remain exactly the same. It would just be "window-dressing". Fun, but not worth doing unless I have nothing better to do with the money (and I do, since we'll need a new roof and furnace in the next 5 yrs, LOL - gotta do those things first!).

I love buying kitchen magazines for the same reason I hang around these forums. Because I haven't done a kitchen top-to-bottom in quite a while, I learn a lot about how things have changed, what's new on the market, what to do and what not to do, etc. etc. Since this isn't our 'forever' house (not designed for easy maintenance when elderly), I figure at some point I might be remodeling another kitchen (shudder) someday.

I like to keep up on things, and I enjoy looking at other people's kitchens, just for the fun of it. Even if much of it is not to my taste, it is always enjoyable to see what others are doing and congratulate them on a job well-done. Remodeling is hard work, mentally exhausting (and physically so if you're a DIYer) and often demoralizing. It is great to see stories shared here, advice freely given, and generous doses of sympathy when needed, amongst strangers.

Oh my, this has been such an interesting read...a good way to spend this "icky" Saturday afternoon~~~ We are planning on building again....and this is something that has bothered me......I happen to like white appliances...easy to clean and never really go completely out of style, but "everyone" seems to think that SS is so "in" right now, that I hate to put in the white, because I think that everyone will judge "why in the world did she put in white in a new house, when SS would have looked so much better.....same with granite....although I do have granite now, I am not really a huge fan of it. What I would rather have is honed black 6x6 tile with black grout....but again, that is "so out-dated"....

I have looked at all of the beautiful homes and kitchens here on this site, and do envy them, but I am getting older and disabled, so I want a house and kitchen that is easy for me to take care of because I can not afford someone to come clean for me like so many of you must have to be able to keep such beautiful kitchens in tip-top shape.

When I saw meghane's kitchen.....painted cabinets of red and white, I just had to smile and think maybe I should find an older house instead of building and then I could do something like that and not worry about it being "so perfect".

I wish more would have posted pics of their kitchens, so we could see how they have decorated theirs....so if you don't mind, could we see them? THANKS for letting me vent...and I am certainly aware of the economy....but enjoy doing this for pure enjoyment and to gain knowledge.

Phoggie, an often repeated phrase around here is that no matter how stylish your kitchen is, in twenty years you'll have a twenty year old kitchen. Do what pleases you!!

I think the thing about choosing things that are too old to be current and too young for retro is to do them with panache. Like maybe use red grout with your black tiles to emphasize that it's supposed to look like stone tiles rather than like you're trying to pretend it's slab. And if you're at all concerned about the looks of your appliances you can choose some white ones that have a nice style to them. A lot of the nicer designs that are available in SS can also be had in white, even if you don't see them on the sales floor.

I am here on the kitchen forum looking for ideas. Found myself in a kitchen remodel due to necessity. At this moment I have a kitchen and a bathroom ripped out due to rotten wood. I am hoping to make some intelligent decisions with what cash I have in my savings. I may have to leave the bathroom as it is for awhile till my hubby can save some $ from his pay to help with these repairs. I have no intention of borrowing $ or putting anything on credit cards. My hubby has mentioned a home equity loan more than once. We are here because of those type of decisions.(his)

I have decides against HD or Lowes cabinets because I do not like the veneer interiors and particle board sides. I have decided against a local caninet maker because I do not like the non factory finish (stain and varnish).

I am looking at Covered Bridge Infused Honey cabinets. I may have cabinets without countertops for awhile. A floor may be awhile longer. Guess I am not impressing anyone 8-]

buehl and sailor...I was talking about the guy who came in and said we shouldn't be talking about kitchens in the kitchen forum :) NOT YOU TWO!

Buehl...you ARE the jones :oP I just try to keep up with your energy heh heh (I will never forget that marathon baking you did with DD).

Linda, I think what many of us are saying is that we weren't trying to impress anyone but outselves. You're obviously looking to do the same over time.

Since you're new to the forum, I'd like to suggest you do a search (use the search function) for the "Under 20K" kitchen's thread that comes up now and then. I'm always excited to see a new kitchen hit that thread because of the clever things folks do to make beautiful new kitchens that don't remotely resemble a 20K kitchen to me...more like a 60k quite often. I would imagine you could pick up all kinds of hints in there. One nice one is butcher block counters from IKEA which are very very cheap. I'll actually be doing my own under 20K kitchen soon I hope (in our victorian) which will last us a few years until we gut the kitchen entirely. I'm looking forward to the challenge :)