My mother grew Mme Pierre Oger (from Rose of Yesterday and Today) in her Pennsylvania garden, on neutral soil. She never sprayed and I don't think she ever fertilized or even pruned. She was on a hill, almost at the top. Down in the valley springtime came a later and there was a lot more frost. Mme Pierre Oger was (and still is) the most beautiful rose I have ever seen. Superlative in a vase. I don't remember ever seeing any black spot. The flowers, with their long petioles, have a beautiful stance on the bush, which is five foot tall and rather upright. I think I might have tried it when I first moved here. My "dream come true" roses were all lost in an unexpected April snowstorm a year or so after planting (including New Dawn) and I was so devastated I never tried Mme Pierre or Reine des Violettes again -- couldn't stand the pain. (My back garden in a sort of semi-shady a depression behind buildings.) There was a beautiful, healthy well-filled-out bush of Reine Victoria, of which Mme Pierre is a sport, for decades at the Brooklyn Botanic Garden. It certainly had three flushes, including one in the middle of the summer. At some point they got rid of all their roses because of rose rosette disease and they have never replaced it. Here is a link to a picture from the web, of a bush grown in Umbria, Italy, showing the petioles: https://www.casanovaumbria.eu/Mme-Pierre-Oger.jpg

I have both of them but one is in the front, from 2 gallon size, and the other in the back from quart size. I bought them about a week apart. They are both still very young and the flowers are of variable colors and sizes. But they are so much alike that it's hardly worthwhile to pick nits (HMF lists Mme. Lombard as up to 7x7 while Georgetown is smaller). Which begs the question: just how many pink teas does one really need? Another pair of possible twins: Souvenir d'un Ami and McClinton Tea. I have the latter but not the former. My current quest is extremely fragrant teas that will do well in my area. But I am having a hard time narrowing down my list. I have space for a few to get enormous but they will be in the back and probably not get that much TLC. I don't want any more duplicates or near duplicates. I leave that to the wealthy people from now on! I also have space in the front for some smaller ones. For those, I would add another selection criterion: must look good essentially all the time, not just flowers but also bush. I am reading the HMF data and some of it is lacking (a lot of listings omit size, for example). What to do when so many of them look alike?

Ulp, thanks -- I'm just going to have to move Madame Lambard then. I do have another spot which will work, and it's not too late. I'm so glad I checked. I thought it might be a big one, but that's not what I was reading. You really saved me a lot of problems a year or two from now. Anyone have any ideas about Clementina Carbonieri? If it doesn't rain tonight or early tomorrow, I'll be planting in the morning. Campanula, Austins often do get bigger here in California, so I went with the larger end of the size ranges I found. If they grow a little larger yet, I'll still be okay. It isn't all of them that do this. I'm actually pleased that Cweathersby reported a larger size for Molyneaux. Two feet sounds too small, at least where these roses will be sited. Sherry, my Anna Olivier comes from a cutting from Jackie's plant, which is both huge and ancient, something like a hundred years old. I'm pretty sure it cannot be the Bermuda one. Rosefolly

Sheila, if you've put your pictures in files on your computer (for instance I have files for different years and different seasons) then it's not that to transfer pictures on houzz, it just takes a little getting used to. Even your "flat" MAM looks better than any of mine and the first pic is marvelous. I wouldn't be giving that rose away. So much is location, which includes any number of variables. Nik, I would be worried that your location is too hot, or will be in the future for this rose, but I don't think your place is usually as hot as mine. I'm glad some of you appreciate Mme. Leon Pain, and she is definitely growing on me. Right now she has 17 buds and that's not too bad. I actually think she's here to stay. Marlorena, you may be quite right, in spring she might be a wonder. Maybe I'll slip her some fish solution. Lisa, Happy Birthday! I just measured MAM and she's about 4 feet tall and 5 feet wide. I feel that it may be possible to pretty much keep her at this size and still have her bloom and thrive. Of all my roses this one is the most graceful and beautiful bush, with gorgeous leaves, but the flowers are so disappointing here. I'm glad the lump on your elbow is not something serious, although no doubt not much fun.