SHOP PRODUCTS
Houzz Logo Print
whaas_5a

Appraised value of square footage

whaas_5a
4 years ago
last modified: 4 years ago

I know this is a loaded question but hoping to get guidance.

I'm trying to find out if there are guidline s or formulas appraisers use for the value of square footage.

I'm unable to ask questions of the appraiser and she wouldn't return my calls anyhow.

My newer contruction appraisal (doing a refi out of orignal ARM) had one comp that was 14 years older and the other two comps where built in the same year 2017 as mine.

The adjustment for main level / above grade square footage was $35.00 sqft

This doesn't make any sense to me. Where would this number come from?

The sell price difference of the two newer comps (which are in the same subdivision) would indicate the value would be $140 sqft as they have the same number of rooms.

Below grade square footage was valued at $25.00 per sqft.

Additionally what is the formula to adjust for age of home? The comp that was 14 years older only added $13K to my value. It seems odd that a house built in 2017 would only be valued $13K more than one built in 2003. The number is based on age alone.

Comments (57)

  • Lindsey_CA
    4 years ago

    Even if the bank hires the appraiser, if you pay for the appraisal, you are entitled to a copy of it.

    The appraiser's task is to calculate the fair market value of a subject property. But the goal is to protect the lender's financial interest in the property.

    whaas_5a thanked Lindsey_CA
  • whaas_5a
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    I have a copy but it doesn’t explain the how only the why. For example the comp was adjusted up for the lack of sqft at $35 per sqft but there is no explanation as to how that value is determined.

    A lower level fire place was valued at $5K which would be equivalent to 142 above grade sqft. Its just not logical.

    Another odd thing was the poll I did recently. I have a lot that is completely surrounded by 60 year old hardwood trees. No adjustment. Instead the comp that had a fishbowl lot negatively impacted my value -$10K because their subdivision has an outdoor pool and clubhouse. However that comes at a cost of $600 annually.

    I can get another appraisal but the bank is cautioning me as the new appraisal would need to be used if it came in lower than the original. If the next appraiser is just going to use $35 per sqft then the effort is fruitless.

    Denita, thanks for the link. I’ll dig more with them.


    Fish bowl lot you can see from multple streets in the suddivision and no landscaping - worth $10K more because they pay $600 annualy for outdoor pool (in WI) and clubhouse



    Private lot at the end of a subdivision - fully landscaped. No adjusted made against above comp.



  • Related Discussions

    How much value does a finished basement add?

    Q

    Comments (7)
    My agent spoke with the listing agent and sent me the following message: "This home was slated for foreclosure when a deed in lieu was issued to the current owner. According to the agent, he is taking a loss on the home with the deed in lieu process, thus the reason for no price reductions coupled with him not desperate to sell. � �They just recently put in a yard, as he felt some of the people who have looked at the home, could not envision what a yard would look like, as I guess it was all a bunch of scrub brush and not a completed yard, so they did one. Today they are�going through the basement for its�final phases of sheet rocking, texture, and painting, as�approx. 1000+ sq/ft of basement was NOT complete. They are completing it now, and will finish with�texture, paint, trim work and carpeting. There is also a bathroom plumbed, and conversions can be done, however one may see fit, Even a Mother in Law apt." When I look on the county website they list no sales for this property (going back to 1997) The property is owned by a financial group- llc type thing. I will ask my agent more about it tomorrow, as I am still confused as to who was building the home and who owns it now. As far as finishing the basement, my guess is the owner has multiple business ventures that involve construction to some extent. So perhaps it is easier/cheaper for him to finish the basement and sell it as a 4,000 sq ft home vs just 3,000. I think the home may have been rented out. Agent comments on another website mentioned that this home had been well maintained. It was built in 2009 and most of the listing photos were taken when the house was just about complete. A little confusing, but overall much more straightforward than the last house we were looking at, lol.
    ...See More

    Building for Appraisal Value?

    Q

    Comments (34)
    Contractor owns the land and will build the house (on his dime); what is the contractor asking of you to “seal the deal”? There may be a way, but I suggest you make an appointment with a real estate attorney. If he/she thinks it is doable, you can then proceed with a legal contract which sets parameters. In my experience “appraisal” value is used for two things…town/city appraisal for property taxes and “opinion of value” appraisal for selling or settling estates. Contractor isn’t going with town appraisal, for sure, which most likely will be lower. And, the land…you haven’t mentioned that at all. It does have some value and more with a house on it. He is just throwing that it in for nothing? I did a project somewhat similar to yours. I owned the land which I had subdivided into three lots. After about a year, I was notified that the town zoning was going to change from 30,000 to 40,000 sq ft per building lot and I had about 6 months to get things going or I would lose one lot. Yikes! I wasn’t in the position to write checks to build these homes, but I was in the financial position to get a commercial loan. However, to build more than two houses I needed a contractor’s license. Okay, now what to do? With the help of an attorney, I entered into an arragement with a great builder…he built the houses and I took on the responsibility of getting the water, electric/gas, etc onto each property and building the road. We then had an real estate agent do the comps and builder, I and agent set the lsiting prices. It was a win/win for both of us, but neither the builder nor I would ever had done that without legal counsel and a contract. There are so many snafus. In my town, building code regulates the number of bedrooms allowed…there must be 10,000sq ft of land for every bedroom; then set-back allowances…on and on. I am betting you don’t know the rules and regulations at all…and am betting contractor hasn’t even gotten to the stage of applying for a permit to see what he CAN build. Yes, legal counsel is needed. Hope it works out for you and if it doesn’t my motto is there are “too many houses and not enough time” to live in them.
    ...See More

    Help! Selling split level - square footage issues

    Q

    Comments (56)
    I've attempted to explain issues regarding the house I want to sell, including associated issues that figure into my decisions. The associated issues are complex, and mistaken assumptions have been made by some commenters here that are wildly off-base, offensive and inappropriate. Suffice it to say, I am not leaving this town. I am not selling the property where I live. I've joined others in my community who are fighting for responsible building regulations to stop damaging run-off. I'm sorry if some commenters don't like that, but nothing you say will change this. It depresses me that land is considered so disrespectfully in this forum, and I wish all would consider land has more identity than just a box of cereal. Land has geographic identity.....the place on the map of this planet. Geological identity......the ancient bedrock beneath it. Biological identity.....the biodiversity of flora and fauna that call it home. Environmental identity......land and water quality. Historic identity.....the natural and social identities previously. Community identity.....as a permanent fixture in social surroundings. Tax identity.....what we owe for services that facilitate the surroundings. Personal property identity.....that which we call home. I was raised to respect land, and it depresses me that some people see it as merely transactional, a commodity to be exploited and then move on, and who cares about the damage to the land and those who remain. I'm not anti-capitalism, but late-stage capitalism seems to have eroded all other values. It's an unsustainable mentality, unsuitable to a shrinking planet. Besides being caretakers of land, we're caretakers of our own souls. You might even consider them one and the same.
    ...See More

    Need help with appraisal square footage

    Q

    Comments (6)
    It's possible that one is measuring from exterior wall to exterior wall and the other is measuring inside wall dimensions. There may be some local custom around it - it's my understanding that in my area exterior dimensions are used in real estate listings. Also, any of these dimensions may be approximate depending on how they're done. Did the person doing the dimensions take a half hour doing it, or two hours? Unless the home is a perfect rectangle on both floors getting the correct measurements is going to be somewhat time consuming. Is one measure based on blueprints and the other based on quick measurements?
    ...See More
  • User
    4 years ago

    Post your report.

    whaas_5a thanked User
  • whaas_5a
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Its a 34 pg appraisal. What specific info would you like to see?

  • User
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Based on the pictures, you are buying dirt/a lot to build on in a development.

    You may have to pay the amount the developer wants.

    Are you interested in a $40k, 1/4+ lot/dirt. You will have $400k in a 2k sq ft home on a 1/4 acre. Are you buying a house or a home?

    Do you want to live there?, where I live, those homes on those large lots might be worth over $1m, but in my area, a household income is over $200k/year.


    Post the summary. What is the listing price?

  • whaas_5a
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Jim not sure if your post is meant for my thread or not but if it is I’d invite you to read my very first post.

  • User
    4 years ago

    I am replying to this thread. I do not plan to read your “very first post”, you asked for “guidance“ and did not qualify or provide enough information.


    Perhaps you should identify your posts as; x of xx, see very first post.


    Perhaps you are part of the insiders of this site, maybe you should identify your posts as such:” only those who know me should reply”.


    If so, maybe you should try another social media vehicle.


    I have purchased and sold properties in CA, and plan to sell a,property next year. I have some experience in my area.



  • Lindsey_CA
    4 years ago

    "A lower level fire place was valued at $5K which would be equivalent to 142 above grade sqft. Its just not logical."

    You do not understand how an appraisal is done, or how valuation adjustments are made. You cannot compare the value given (or removed) because of a fireplace to the difference in square footage. They do not relate. The value given, or removed, for a fireplace is the value that a buyer would normally be willing to pay for an equivalent property with - or without - a similar fireplace.

    This is so similar to the problem you're having in another thread you started about different sizes of garages. You have a problem with a garage being identified as a "3.5-car garage" as opposed to your "3-car garage." As I said in that thread, many people are willing to pay more for an oversized garage because it gives additional storage space, or space to park a golf cart or bicycles, etc. The space on an appraisal form to indicate the garage size is very limited. There is not enough space to put "oversized 3-car garage." There IS space to put "3.5" -- which to a reasonably intelligent person indicates that the garage is oversized.

    Yes, an adjustment is made for overall square footage. But the per-square-foot cost is relative ONLY to square footage. That value is NOT used when making adjustments for oversized garages, fireplaces, pools, patios, or spas, etc.

    whaas_5a thanked Lindsey_CA
  • PRO
    Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
    4 years ago

    Your 2 year old home will be valued against similar footage, market value. You cannot use "per foot" from a home that is 500+ sf smaller and cherry pick as many do.


    Cost/replacement is only a secondary check value but isn't that important at this point. Whether you paid $10-20k for a fireplace means nothing if it doesn't add value on resale to an appraisal. Your loan typically gets sold & the risk has to be measured and mitigated. Often the homes inside a development with HOA dues will value for more. Check yourself.


    I've not noticed appraisals adjusted for age, but for condition.


    Its a refi. That lender wants your business. That's how they get paid. Do you have any local real estate agent friends to discuss value?

    whaas_5a thanked Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
  • Lindsey_CA
    4 years ago

    As for the comparison of the "fishbowl lot" and the "fully landscaped private lot at the end of a subdivision" -- $600 annually for a clubhouse and pool is $50 per month. Not a lot of money for most families to pay for those amenities, especially if you do not like having to maintain a pool. Not a lot of folks welcome the idea of having to deal with the maintenance of a large lot like you've shown for the "private lot" example. Does the property line go all the way to the trees or beyond? Or is it a lot closer in but not clearly shown in that photo? What is out there by the trees? Is there a written guarantee that nothing will be built on the other side? Or is there a possibility (that the appraiser might be fully aware of) that there will be new construction in that area?

    whaas_5a thanked Lindsey_CA
  • Lindsey_CA
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    "Whether you paid $10-20k for a fireplace means nothing if it doesn't add value on resale to an appraisal."

    Well said!

    Many, many years ago I appraised a house that had been built in the late 1960s, located in a neighborhood of very similar homes. The owner had added onto the house -- a new master suite and bonus/rec room. This owner had spent a small fortune on a feature that he thought was the be-all and end-all. He loved to play pool, and had a pool table put in the bonus/rec room. But not just any old pool table sitting in the middle of the room. No, he had an underground, temperature-and-humidity-controlled vault built. The pool table was on a hydraulic lift, and it would be raised up when he wanted to shoot pool, and lowered back underground when they were done. Nifty, yes. Expensive, yes. Something that buyers would be willing to pay as much for to have in their previously owned home as the seller paid to have installed, no.

    whaas_5a thanked Lindsey_CA
  • whaas_5a
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Lindsey,

    Frst off appreciate the time you're giving (and everyone else) to my threads.

    Yes I do understand how appraisals work. I was simply using an example that a lower level fireplace is valued at $5K. That number does make sense for the value someone would pay in WI.


    I was using it as example to point out that its value has a $ figure equivliant to 142 above grade sqft. Perhaps not a good example but an example none the less. At the end of the day I'm just trying to figure where $35 a sqft would come from. If I take the two 2017 built comps they are of similar quality and in the same subdivision. One is 550 more sqft and sold for $78K more. This equates to $142 a sqft. Which aligns with the sell price per sqft for all single story homes in the area. Why wouldn't a number closer that be used? Its seems like such a grave disparity.


    Yes I also understand someone would likely pay more for storage hence why I'm trying to figure out what consitutues 3.5. Sq ft isn't listed on the appraisal. Mine is just over 1,000 sqft - technically has lots of storage.


    As for the pool did you catch that its an outdoor pool in WI? It gets -26 degrees here! lol

    Pool is only operational best case 5 months so your $600 of usage is $120 per month.

    The pool is usally loaded with kids so its not a peaceful place to be for the median age of 50 for this area. No land is for sale around my lot - even if the land is developed its zoned residential min 2 acre lots unless you make it up in green space. The comp has the same size lot - people value trees around here by the way. The wooded lots and houses with wooded lots ALWAYS sell at a premium over those that do not.


    Jeffery,

    Our subdivsion also has an HOA - a desirable one.

    Multiple owners actually own multiple lots to keep others from building on them! lol


    The comps are very relevant - I just can't understand the sqft adjustment. Age has a huge impact on price even for comparable condition. Folks can't afford to build so anything built in the last few years sells FAST and at a premium price. There is actually a house listed in my small subdvision - simlar quality, lot, size, etc. Its listed $145K more than my appraisal. All homes are under $1M for reference.



  • PRO
    Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
    4 years ago

    "Listed" is not a comp, but a hopeful sale. If buyers recognize a deal, it will pop. The market has cooled & I'm seeing reductions when overpriced.

    Are there recent closed sales (90 days) that indicate yours is worth more? Dont get bogged down in minutia.

    Again, a local broker might offer an opinion or ever a paid for BPO... broker price opinion.

    whaas_5a thanked Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
  • lyfia
    4 years ago

    I’m curious on the adjustment in square footage. Does the comp homes have all the same rooms above grade and you have some of the same rooms, but yours are below grade?

    whaas_5a thanked lyfia
  • eandhl2
    4 years ago

    Our last house was smaller than closest neighbor, they had about 10 more acres than us. Our appraisal was lower. When we checked ,we had 2 FP's, all hardwood floors vs carpet . We got picked up on 3 baths vs 1 1/2. Granite counter vs Formic. These were some of the things that increased ours.


    whaas_5a thanked eandhl2
  • jlhug
    4 years ago

    The dollar per square foot adjustment isn’t based on cost to build those additional square feet. It is based on how much the typical buyer will pay to for those additional square feet. The number comes from the appraiser’s knowledge of the local market based on sales of homes.

    whaas_5a thanked jlhug
  • Keepthefaith MIGirl
    4 years ago

    ... following ... IMHO, it's like anything, sometimes you get a good one, sometimes you have to keep shopping. I also have tried to do logical math on a subjective appraisal, being in IT, I can't help but look for a formula. At the end of the day, it's subjective. We had a $25k adjustment made for a retention pond vs all sports 400 acre lake. We'd all rush to buy lake front homes if they really sold for only that much more!! I'd recommend moving on. Try to find one recommended by someone you trust

    whaas_5a thanked Keepthefaith MIGirl
  • Denita
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    @Keepthefaith, the OP doesn't get to select the appraiser at all.

    When borrowing funds to renovate or purchase or refinance a property, the lender selects the appraiser. The borrower pays for the appraisal, but has no input into the appraisal and is not involved in the selection process.

    whaas_5a thanked Denita
  • Keepthefaith MIGirl
    4 years ago

    and in construction, the borrower can choose their lender, and some manage their process better than others....

    whaas_5a thanked Keepthefaith MIGirl
  • Denita
    4 years ago

    ^No question that the borrower can choose their lender. And lenders vary tremendously from one another. However, in no case does the borrower select the appraiser.

    whaas_5a thanked Denita
  • jlhug
    4 years ago

    I agree with what Homechet wrote. I did real estate appraisals for 7 years in Alaska back in the ‘80s.

    whaas_5a thanked jlhug
  • whaas_5a
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Thanks for the feedback!

    No agruement on below grade sqft.

    I take issue to above grade $35 per sqft adjustment for a recently built house. Lets ignore the $200+ sqft to build for a moment. Publicly available sales data shows that sqft is valued at $140ish per sqtf in my area. Take the two comps used - both in the same subdivision - similar quality - same rooms - both built around the same time mine was - really no difference other than one is 550 more sqft.

    The larger sold for $78K more. Take $78K / 550 sqft.

    Low and behold that is $142 a square foot.

    Can you imagine if everyone building right now was told that when they go to refi in couple years their $200 to $300 sqft is valued at $35 or 1/4 what existing homes are selling for?

    I'm still not understanding where $35 a sqft comes from.

    During the reconsideration process the appraiser stated they used $10K adjustment for a more desirable subdivison as it sold out more quickly due to its amenities. I took the number of sites / available lots and my subdivision has stronger sell through. Its disappointing opinon trumps data in this case.

    Only sales appraoch was used. There was a note that stated Cost approach was considered but not used as it tends to set the upper end of the value range.

    My other issues include no adjustment given for lot type and school district.

    My lot is private wooded. 2 comps did but one had a fishbowl lot visible from the street.

    My my school district is top 10 in the state. 2 comps are top 25 in state and 1 comp is in a poor district something like 75th.

    For some reason in this appraiser‘s mind a subdivision with an outdoor pool in WI is more valuable than a wooded lot and top school district in the state.


  • jlhug
    4 years ago

    Included in the “$ per square foot” is land, utilities, driveway, etc that have nothing to do with the actual structure.


    Just because it costs you $X to build something doesn’t mean that someone will pay that much for it.


    Many of the things you mention are something that will make a buyer buy one house over another but may not be reflected in the appraiser FMV.

    Banks want to know how much they can sell the house for if you take out a loan and never make a payment. Market approach is the best approach to figure out FMV. Cost doesn’t reflect what the house will sell for to a buyer. High end custom built houses typically have things in them that appeal to the person who had the built that have little value to the subsequent buyer.

    Remember that the appraiser is a disinterested third party as opposed to you who has a emotional investment in the property.

    whaas_5a thanked jlhug
  • doc5md
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    I may be wrong. But I’m wondering if you’re looking at the adjustment as the price per sqft of the extra sqft only. The adjustment should be on the whole sqft. Thus if the avg comp was 142$, because of being new, and maybe better location, etc they added 35$ per sqft as an adjustment factor. Bringing it to 177$ per sqft. Clearly not the 200$ of the new construction. But also not the 35$ you think they are saying. Maybe???

    whaas_5a thanked doc5md
  • whaas_5a
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    No it’s $35 total per square foot. I’m looking at the adjustment right now. Again I’m looking at data for actual sales which should be a good indication what buyers would pay.

    No can seem to answer the $35 per square foot adjustment - even the appraiser. Their response to the bank is that it’s tough to tell what is livable.

    I don’t know if a VP of appraisals at a large regional bank needs to go back to the appraiser to reconsider the value I don’t think this has anything to do with emotions. Also in what universe is below grade sqft valued only 29% less than above grade sqft?


    The bank doesn’t want to do another appraisal “in case” it comes in lower. But I say it’s impossible for it to come in lower.

    Thanks again for all the feedback. It helps give additional perspective.

    Many of the things you mention are something that will make a buyer buy one house over another but may not be reflected in the appraiser FMV.

    Agree that’s why it annoys me that such a large adjustment was made for an outdoor pool in WI

  • doc5md
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Yes. That’s what it should be. An adjustment to the base sqft price. If you could post the page w the comps and the adjustment page, we could Look better at it. Yes possible the next appraisal comes in lower. If you really don’t want that issue through the bank, pay for an appraisal of your own on the side. I’d dramatically different, then approach the bank again.

    For example. My 200acre farm. They appraised the land and gave an adjustment of 100$ Per acre. That doesn’t mean my value was 100$/acre. And it doesn’t mean that they only gave me 100$/acre on the 50 extra acres over the comp that was only a 150 acre farm. It means that the base value was increased 100$/acre over the comps per acre value. if comps were 3000$/ acre, my entire farm was valued at 3100$/acre.

    I hope that makes sense.

    Edited to add..... I find looking at appraisals very tough. The way they account things is horribly confusing. When we bought the farm I stared at them for days before I could make any sense of it all.

    Edited again.... reread the thread again. And I think you understand it. But are just wishing the adjustment was more than 35$ over the existing homes value per sqft.

    whaas_5a thanked doc5md
  • hummingbird678
    4 years ago

    whaas, you still seem confused about what an "adjustment" is. An adjustment is a value added on (or subtracted from) another value to account for the differences between you and a comp.

    So if the comp costs $140/sq ft, but your house is newer than that one is, they might give a $35/sq ft adjustment - then that means they are counting that as $175/sq ft ($140+$35) for your house.

    The word "adjustment" means, by definition, it's not the total. It's an adjustment to another number.

    whaas_5a thanked hummingbird678
  • PRO
    Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
    4 years ago

    Great expert post by @homechef59


    IMHO, experienced appraisers develop a pretty accurate gut feeling over time. Adjustments upset everyone who bothers reading them, but the bottom lines are typically accurate. They should give more negative adjustments for many items but consumers would raise holly hell.


    Find another lender, pay for another appraisal if you think you'll make headway, otherwise costs are increasing daily while lenders are getting a little more conservative. That will mean more cash required on your part.

    whaas_5a thanked Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
  • User
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    A neighborhood pool doesn’t take up personal property space and that is kept maintained by an association will create a more valuable home in that neighborhood. . Even in WI. It’s all of the positives of a pool with none of the negatives. The negatives of pool ownership have to do with the space it takes up and the work that it entails. There’s none of that with a neighborhood pool. It’s like lake property on a mini scale.

    Adjudtments are exactly that, and I don’t know why you aren’t understanding that it’s an addition or subtraction to the basic rate. It’s like getting your floors refinishe. If you’re quoted $5 a foot to sand and do 3 coats of water based finish, but now you want to have a stain applied and switch to a UV cured finish, that’s a $4 a foot adjustment. That means the total is $9 a foot, not $4 a foot.

    whaas_5a thanked User
  • homechef59
    4 years ago

    That $35/square foot above grade adjustment is a factor that is derived from a series of comparisons. It's not the exact cost to build.


    New construction is not compared to a 75 year old house. While the locations may be similar, the markets are different. While the two items are houses and have the same utility, they are perceived by the market very differently.

    You have a newer house, not a new house. It will be compared to other similar newer houses. It will not be compared to new construction. The markets are too different.


    Why? Depreciation becomes a factor. New construction depreciates quickly. This is why the appraiser doesn't compare your house with new construction, even if they are in the same neighborhood.


    The goal of a good appraisal is to make no adjustments. That doesn't happen. The appraiser settles on the fewest adjustments as possible. They found mostly similar houses. Then, a series of factors derived from a series of comparisons to adjust for these differences is used.


    While we are trying to help you understand some of the factors involved in your appraisal and we are happy to do so, you are demonstrating why the appraiser doesn't speak to clients often. Understandably, you want to advocate for your valuation. Honestly, the appraiser doesn't care if you understand or not. They only care if the lender understands. It sounds like your lender deems the report acceptable. That's why they are not encouraging you to ask for and pay for another appraisal.


    If the appraiser missed something or got an element wrong, then you would have a case for a reexamination. You bring that to the attention of the lender. They will decide if the error or omission was so great that the report needs to be updated. Sometimes it's a sale that just closed next door.


    If it were brought to my attention by the lender that I missed a major element or there was an updated sale, I would run my numbers again for no charge. Or, I would find another comparable to support my valuation.


    You might not like the result. This is why that is left to the lender to decide if they want an update. The $35/square foot adjustment factor for above grade and the $25/square foot for below grade square footage are well within standard ranges for comparable adjustments.

    whaas_5a thanked homechef59
  • whaas_5a
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Yes I still don't understand the $35 sqft adjustment.

    Here is what the VP of Appraisals at the bank wrote to the appraiser (he was an appraiser for many years). The lender did NOT accept the appraisal and they also weren't happy with the very minor adjustment after the process. The bank thought there was error in which the 1,500 sqft lower finish wasn't included in the appraisal.

    Sq ft adjustment on comp 1 of $20,500 for 585 sq ft difference.. This equals an adjustment of $35 per sq ft when current custom home cost is running $200 + per sq ft. Further Comp 1 is suggesting a sell price per sq ft of $177, comp 2 is $160, and the subject is coming in at $151 based on valuation. This does show an imbalance in the calculation as well.

    Another piece of data - lots in my subdivision sell at a HIGHER price than the lots of the comps with the community outdoor pool shared by 100 homes.

    Why? Perhaps because its more private or a much stronger school district? Again I'm going to ignore the why and just look at the DATA. Stronger sell thru at a higher price.


    By the way I didn't think about this until after the fact but should the lower level that is now being constructed be figured as a cost approach or does the sales approach still make sense for this portion?

  • User
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Sales approach h is the ONLY thing that matters in your appraisal. The lower level will receive a reduction in value simply due to being below grade. That could be a 50% reduction, or an 80% reduction. It all depends on how well it’s finished out, the access from the interior, and the access to the exterior. If it has plenty of legal egress windows and doors, is a bright and pleasant place that connects well to the upstairs, it will have more value than a vinyl floor, suspended ceiling, and a single patio door without a patio outside.

    It has to meet the legal definition of habitable space to be considered living space, and be valued as such. A semi finished room with a bare lightbulb and a washing machine with old sofa won't add wry much value at all except as secondary storage space. Storage space isn’t legal habitable living space.

    Even the nicest below grade that has been legally converted as living space is a price *reduction* over above grade space. 1500 square feet is a pretty big price reduction. That would be 240-250K at above grade. It’s going to be anywhere from 75K as storage space to maybe 190K if finished out as legally habitable space. It won’t be counted as 250K in value because of the reductions for below grade.

  • whaas_5a
    Original Author
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    I went back to look at appraisals from prior homes I've purchased. All of them included both sales and cost approach. The most recent one is the only one that did sales only.


    The one from 2007 (this is when prices started to drop) valued sqft at $30 per sqft for a 20 year old home compared to other 20 year old homes.


    A house built in 2017 should have a higher value applied per sqft adjustment than homes that are decades old. Again I'm comparing my 2017 build house to another 2017 built home.


    Lower levels of comps, other than the 14 year old comp, are of equal quality.

  • User
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    Cost value only is important for insurance purposes and insuring for full value to rebuild. It has no relevance to what the bank could sell the property and completed home for if you defaulted. That is the ONLY number that matters to a bank. The selling value.

    The only time that build value enters the picture is on a new construction loan, if the sales value is really out of whack with the build cost. The bank has to protect themselves, and if the house being built would need a lot more money to take over the build than it would result in finished value, the loan amount could go down as a result, resulting in a smaller number available for the loan than the sales value would justify.

    If you’re building a home that costs 500K to build, on a 100K house trailer lined dirt road, you’re going to have a real hard time with the bank, no matter how much money you bring to the table. The selling value will never be proportionate to the cost. Yet if you default in the middle, the cost to take over could be more than the selling value.

    whaas_5a thanked User
  • jlhug
    4 years ago

    Age/condition is a separate adjustment from differences in square feet on a real estate appraisal. The $ per square foot should be the same across the board since that adjustment is for square feet only.

    Whaas, have you considered taking a real estate appraisal course?

    whaas_5a thanked jlhug
  • homechef59
    4 years ago

    Sales Approach is the ONLY thing that matters.


    There are a couple of different forms that a lender can request to be used. Not all loans require the full report. These other forms require a different amount of work and time to complete. It is entirely up the lender to decide which type of appraisal to order.


    I had assumed that they had requested a full traditional appraisal. I might be wrong about that. I won't get into all the different forms of appraisals that could be ordered. There are a bunch of them. It sounds as if they used one of the shorter forms. This is why it looks different from your old appraisals. I can only guess as I have not seen it.


    In any case, the Cost Approach is NOT appropriate for your loan, may or may not be generated depending upon the form used, and won't be relied upon but rather only be used to support the Sales Comparison Approach.


    Somewhere in the report there will be verbiage that will state that the Cost Approach was not used or that it supported valuation. You will have to look for it. You will also see a notation that the Income Approach wasn't appropriate and wasn't used. They are buried in the report.


    We are all at a disadvantage by not having the report in front of us. This means we can only discuss this in the most general of terms. The Chat Room is an imperfect way of effective communication. A lot of necessary information falls through the cracks and a lot of assumptions have to be made.

    whaas_5a thanked homechef59
  • jlhug
    4 years ago

    Sales Approach is the ONLY thing that matters.


    What Homechef said. The lender doesn't care how much it costs to build unless it is a construction loan. The lender only cares how much he can sell the house for if you default on your mortgage.

  • whaas_5a
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Home ch


    are there any pieces you want me to post from the report? I just didn’t want to post my actual value.


    I had posted this above but there is alot of text swirling above.


    There was a note that stated “Cost approach was considered but not used as it tends to set the upper end of the value range.”


    again appreciate everyone‘s feedback.


    I would hire for an appraisal but I don’t think the bank could use it



  • doc5md
    4 years ago

    The bank only cares about what it can sell your property for should you default

    whaas_5a thanked doc5md
  • whaas_5a
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Is that the complete truth though?


    Why would the bank go back to the appraiser to have the value adjusted? T

    They had no reason to spend the time to do so.


    Lastly this is a construction loan with the large lower level finish - then will be rolled into a fixed loan. Well maybe that explains it - they want my business.



  • PRO
    Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
    4 years ago

    @whaas_5a A const loan? that is different that you originally stated.

    whaas_5a thanked Jeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
  • jlhug
    4 years ago

    Lenders don’t calculate the max mortgage based on constructions costs of new construction, remodeling or expanding living space. They lend on the FMV. The cost of finishing your basement will probably not be 100% reflected in an increase in the FMV.

    whaas_5a thanked jlhug
  • Keepthefaith MIGirl
    4 years ago

    Denita, obviously. That's why I didn't say that. She does have the option to switch lenders and find one that handles the process differently.

    whaas_5a thanked Keepthefaith MIGirl
  • homechef59
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    No. I don't want to see your appraisal. I'm not conducting a review appraisal. I get paid for those. I would advise against posting it on a public forum.

    Construction loans are different in that the Cost Approach will be very close to the final valuation upon completion. They are much higher risk loans for the lender. This is why they are very cautious. If this is custom construction, the valuation may not support the project. This means you will have to bring more cash to the project.

    I know that sounds mean. Understand, it would be unprofessional to pass judgement on another appraiser's work without all the facts.

    The lender wants their money back with interest. This is the process that they use in order to make a judgement as to the likelihood of getting their money back. They don't have to make the loan. Lenders are risk adverse. Either, the appraisal supported your proposed project or doomed it. I don't know. I don't have enough information one way or the other.

    Good luck with your project.

    whaas_5a thanked homechef59
  • User
    4 years ago
    last modified: 4 years ago

    A renovation loan is not a new construction loan. Not even close. Spending 100K to finish out your basement isn’t going to add 100K in value. That’s HGTV fiction. You might get a 20K bump if you are lucky. It doesn't matter what the renovation costs. It’s still a basement and not above grade footage.

    You‘ve bought into the HGTV fiction that $1 spent adds $1 to your home value. Nothing could be further from the truth. All home renovation projects add less value than you spend to do them. They lose money. A basement project adds less than most. In other words, it loses more money than average. Because below ground doesn’t count like above ground.

    You could spend 300K putting in exotic marble floors, gold taps, and custom mahogany cabinets down there. No one would ever pay for what that costs at resale. Its a basement. You’ll still get that 20-30K bump because it’s nice basement. But that’s it.

    Finish level counts far less than above grade square footage and location. That is the primary driver to any appraisal. Not age. Not finishes. Not lot size. Not below grade space. None of those things has the impact that square footage and location do.

    My guess as to why the bank is challenging the appraisal has less to do with the fact that it’s incorrect, and more to do with the personality that’s on display in this and past threads. They’re gonna check that box for you, as a “customer service concession” because you’re all up in their face. Not because the appraisal is wrong. This way they can say that they tried but their hands are tied.


    Unless they didn’t count a complete above ground wing, no new appraisal is going to be significantly different. The arms length process is pretty much a standardized art. You don’t get big swings in value from one to another. That’s part of the reforms enacted.

    whaas_5a thanked User
  • ncrealestateguy
    4 years ago

    They will not adjust for differing school districts because the adjustment is intrinsically in there already. The fact that buyers paid X amount in your neighborhood with one school district, and that buyers paid X amount for the other home in another district, means that this variable already has that adjustment calculated. So if the appraiser adjusted for it, it would be calculated twice. You can't do that.

    Also, if a subject home has 500 sq. ft. more space than a comp, and that comp sold for $100 / sq. ftg., the adjustment is not made by taking 500 and multiplying it by $100. Because a lot of the items in that additional sq. ftg. has already been accounted for and adjusted for by the appraiser just by performing the appraisal. So, they divide the additional sq. ftg. by 3 or 4 and this is the value added by the additional sq. ftg. In your case, if the adjustment is for $35, then the value of the comps sq. ftg. was close to $105 - $140. (Depending on the factor that the appraiser divided by... 3 or 4. It differs in different areas of the Country.)

    In any case, this appraiser has done you a good deal... while you have been arguing against his value, the interest rates have dropped, saving you thousands of dollars.

    whaas_5a thanked ncrealestateguy
  • homechef59
    4 years ago

    Glad to hear that the market has rewarded you. Appraisers are always hostage to the comparables. I hope you enjoy your new home.

    whaas_5a thanked homechef59
  • whaas_5a
    Original Author
    4 years ago

    Hi Homechef,

    The new comp in my subdivision was a big help.


    The new appraisal used two of the same comps but the adjustments where very different from the original.


    For example above grade sqft adjustment was valued at $65 sqft vs the $35 sqft from the prior. Which makes much more sense based on the sales data. They both used the $25 sqft for lower level though.


    My lender requested that the bank credit me for the original appraisal cost as there was a substantial difference between the two (six figures difference). They approved it.


    At the end of the day it makes sense to watch comps as well as get a second opinion



  • ncrealestateguy
    4 years ago

    Wow! What a difference. Every profession has persons that do not take pride in their work.

    Glad it worked out for you.