Bypassing builder and builder markup on some stuff ?
opaone
4 years ago
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Mrs Pete
4 years agoCharles Ross Homes
4 years agoRelated Discussions
Builder Prices Versus On-Line Prices For 'Stuff'
Comments (10)we wern't impressed by our builder "discounts". I would definately shop around. In some cases we went with the builder supplier (e.g. lighting, cabinets) but in other cases we found a better local supplier and now the builder has switched over to them (e.g.granite). In some cases we purchased items on line and gave them to the builder (e.g. sinks). In the case of the lighting, we did not get the absolute best price on the fixtures (although the prices were good and dicounted off suggested retail) BUT we did get a "free" design and that was well worth the small premium on the fixtures. We could have saved a few dollars by puchasing the same lights on-line but we did have some broken fixtures on delivery (replaced quickly) and the lighting in our house is fantastic. There is something to be said for having a local supplier who can quickly get you parts or replace an item if there are problems. But you have to weigh that against what you are getting locally and any savings you can get on line. For example, we purchased our faucets locally using the builder's plumbing supplier but we bought the stainless steel sinks on line. The markup on SS was unbelievable (2 grand for a Kohler kitchen sink with the "discount" - are they nuts!). I think we paid 1 grand for 4 SS sinks - 16 gauage - they are awesome and we got that tip from GW. So Scrutinize every line item and do not assume that every item on the list is at the best discount you can get. Toilets were another one - we bought Toto's on-line and got a very good deal. The appliance purchase was amazing. Builder told us that his guy had the very best prices. BS - we saved over 4 grand by buying appliances from a local store who has been around for decades and their price included installation!. Plus we got 0% financing on the stuff which we just finished paying off - nice to have that off the mortgage. I don't think I would buy appliances on-line - research that approach and definately don't be affraid to check local stores and tell them the best prices you can get on line - see if they will at least match it or throw in installation. Shop til you drop. Its your money that they want to take. PS - assume that EVERY builder "allowance" is crap - pulled out of the air. Validate every allowance against actual bids from suppliers for items that are at the quality level you expect. Hopefully you can do this before you sign the contract. If we had only budgeted what our builder "allowed", we would have no lights and probably have plywood for countertops....See MoreJust how does a builder make his profit?
Comments (18)Here's what happened to us: We had a fixed price contract subject to change orders. We went a tad over on some allowances - kitchen and lighting and paid for them immediately. Our builder had a line item for profit and overhead, which I don't think is proper in a fixed-price contract. She also had three other line items for other work in the home. The bank let the GC take the majority of this profit in the first two months of a six month project, and I don't know why. We did not realize what was happening. Long story short: when we obtained a COO, the home was not complete, the bank witheld funds for completion and the GC apparently had spent all of the profit she took from our loan, and was unable to pay the last work from the subs. She then liened our property, and "quit" the job in desperation to try to force us to come up with the money to pay her. Then the subcontractors and suppliers liened us. We had to hire another GC to finish the project and we have tons of legal fees trying to dispatch of these liens. Apparently, our GC thought that she could turn a "fixed price" into a "fixed fee" contract. Our contract never guaranteed a profit or paid a certain percentage to the GC. I believe the payments to the GC should be linked directly to payments to the subs and not necessarily be allowed to stand alone in a line item on a fixed-price contract. In addition, thhe GC came up with extra charges for excavation (6 months after the work) and claimed that she had no duty to inform us when it had occured as "it was an allowance." To say we were shocked was an understandment as our contract clearly states that ANY change has to be agreed to in writing before work continues. Did anyone's GC not inform them of these kinds of overages until months later and did you get a change order?? Did it cause problems? Has anyone else on this list had a lien to deal with, particulary one from the general contractor? If the GC had just finished the work in a timely manner, this probably would not have been a problem. That's just half of the story - the workmanship was shoddy, too....See MoreWhy would builder not want me to use another source for tile??
Comments (18)Bottom line is I believe he IS getting a kickback from his tile people. He told me the other night he needed to be paid for taking care of the materials and guaranteeing them... bull I know. He even said he would have to charge me more if we bought our tiles from the designer! He said we were getting into cost plus territory I spoke with my designer and told her that he would be calling her and that if he wants to add his "kickback" so we could use her we would go for it. I just went this am to see his tile person. The woman they use is a sales person. She is NOT a designer. I brought a list in with me to see what I would pay for each piece. I did not get that when I went in... but was assured I would not be paying the retail price on the tiles. So I assume based on the amount I purchase I get a discount. No one told me how much. I love both my designer and my builder and do not wish to give either of them up nor do I want them at each other's throats. I selected them each for the expertise. Both of them are excellent at what they do and I love what I see coming from both. I apologized to both of them for not introducing the two of them before hand. My Designer told me early on to let him know that she also sells items such as tile, counter tops and interior surfaces. I could have sworn we did. I think he forgot. Just got back from seeing his tile person. I went through the entire house and found pieces that were comparable to my decorator's plan and some were actually the same. (everyone has their own marble and travertine for instance) I actually found a few things I liked better particularly for a back porch area which I had yet to address with my Designer. What they don't have and I know they probably cannot get are the decorative accent glass pieces and backsplash I fell in love with. I was told that they are limited to specific companies. So I would never be able to get those pieces from them. What I plan on doing is having both of them total their tile up for the rooms. I may have to decide who we will go with after that. But I am leaning towards buying most of it from his tile place to make him happy and let him know I am going to buy specific glass accents or backsplash tiles from her. I am not sure how that will go over... but I will want I like. And if his Tile people don't have it then he will have to accept that. Our Builder gave us a fixed price to build the whole house and then added in some of the extras that we were doing ... cost for a custom staircase that he is building, stone frplace that he is building (still don't know if that includes the materials!), and for the extra glass and doors to enclose our LR and DR. Then he gave us a sheet that specified his allowances. He didn't even specify our countertop prices (said granite) and we had to call him for that price. We choose this builder specifically bc he does all his own wood (cabinets included). And the work is ALL custom done bc he has his own woodworking shop. His woodwork is stunningly beautiful. His contract gave us the allowances... $3.50 for tile per square foot which is LOW. And we will be going over. So I do not understand why it matters where we go to him. He did NOT specify ANYWHERE in the contract that we had to use HIS SUPPLIERS. He said it was assumed based on the contract. (Sorry that doesn't cut it!) Bottom line. His tile lady said we will not pay the price that was on the front of the tiles. We would get a discount. She said he does NOT get a kick back from them (something that some builders get... you pay for the tile and when he picks it up he gets a rebate or a commission fee back from the tile company). But for all I know they could be lying. All I want is what I fell in love with....See Morebuilder giving me the mcds dollar menu hvac system?
Comments (8)Thanks for the replies guys. After reading countless threads on this great forum, I think I've determined I've been looking at this the wrong way. My builder gave me the model numbers above and with prices for upgrades. Duel Fuel, increased AFUE, variable speed fan, etc.... I've been trying to crank up the AFUE without looking at what type of system would benefit me in my climate area. So I guess I need help from you all on determining if I should go for a high AFUE furnace like the XV95 or Duel Fuel and utilize the heat pump as much as possible since our winters don't have too many days below 40 here. I know I saw a calculator to determine this with what gas and ac costs are in my area, but I'm a noob and could definitely be pointed in the right direction. Here are some specifics of my house, my builder did not provide me with a J load calculation either. Can they provide that on a NEW house being built? I just don't know these things and what I should be asking for. I just don't want the builder to get over on me and charge me crazy prices for upgrades. I've asked the builder to let me talk to the HVAC guy, IMO they should be telling me what type of system would be the best in my area, no? They're the ones who are the experts and can recommend what type of system based on energy costs would be the best. Am I asking too much? 3412 sq. feet 1 story house, 28 windows(all LowE366), 1/2 inch spray foam on all walls with R13 batting over it. He wants to do dual zone with the 1st zone covering about 1400 sq. feet and the 2nd zone covering the rest(2000). The house is being built in Southeastern Virginia near the coast. Thanks for any help you guys can provide, Dale...See Morejust_janni
4 years agodoc5md
4 years agoJeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
4 years agobry911
4 years agoUser
4 years agowhaas_5a
4 years agoJeffrey R. Grenz, General Contractor
4 years agoRobbin Capers
4 years agoKirsten E.
4 years agoUser
4 years agoUser
4 years agoHolly Stockley
4 years agowhaas_5a
4 years agolast modified: 4 years agoopaone
4 years ago
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