I'd agree with pretty much all the sites already mentioned, and add the emphasis on getting to know the ones local/regional to you in SE Wisconsin. The rest are pretty window dressing and cool places to see plants, but with little applicability to your gardening possibilities. This is a way to prioritize where you invest your efforts, and gain the most value. Additions not yet mentioned (colder upper Midwest sites): **Chicago Botanic Garden **Hidden Lake Gardens **Secrest Arboretum **Dawes Arboretum **Stan Hywet Gardens **Kingwood Gardens **Minnesota Landscape Arboretum Places that aren't often considered arboreta/botanic gardens, but are a treasure of plant collections, landscape maintenance, and high visibility: **Every cemetery in the rural landscape style (Spring Grove Cemetery, Cave Hill Cemetery, Lexington Cemetery, Mount Auburn Cemetery, etc.) **Many many zoos (Cincinnati Zoo, Evansville Zoo, etc.) **Many many parks **Many many college campuses (UWisconsin, UIllinois, Michigan State University) **Many state capital grounds **Large wholesale nurseries (for you, Johnson's Nursery and any of the Klehm family properties should be must-visit locations) As you might imagine, you could make this part of your lifestyle if able to loosen the shackles of everyday thinking. The most mundane trip to the grocery becomes an excuse to take the long way 'round just to see plants that you've not driven past before. Always carry the digicam to record things. Finally, a list of my favorites: **Spring Grove Cemetery, Cincinnati OH **Bernheim Arboretum, Clermont KY **Cave Hill Cemetery, Louisville KY **All the Olmsted parks, Louisville KY **Lexington Cemetery, Lexington KY **UK/LFUCG Arboretum, Lexington KY **Cincinnati Zoo, Cincinnati OH **Secrest Arboretum, Wooster OH **Dawes Arboretum, Newark OH **US National Arboretum, Washington DC **Washington DC - esp. the downtown streets/landscapes **Dunbarton Oaks, Washington DC **Evansville Zoo, Evansville IN **Missouri Botanical Garden, St. Louis MO **Arnold Arboretum, Jamaica Plain MA **Polly Hill Arboretum, North Tisbury MA **Scott Arboretum at Swarthmore College, Swarthmore PA **Longwood Gardens, Kennett Square PA **Morris Arboretum, Philadelphia PA **Donald Kendall Sculpture Garden at Pepsico, White Plains NY **Morton Arboretum, Lisle IL **Chicago Botanic Garden, Chicago IL **Boerner Botanic Garden, Milwaukee WI **UW Arboretum, Madison WI **Durand-Eastman Park, Rochester NY **Highland Park, Rochester NY **Biltmore Estate, Asheville NC **JC Raulston Arboretum, Raleigh NC **UGeorgia Botanical Gardens, Athens GA **Washington Park Arboretum, Seattle WA **Ruth Bancroft Garden, Walnut Creek CA **Eddy Arboretum, Placerville CA **Huntington Botanic Gardens, Pasadena CA ...to name a few.

I agree with Roseseek. THE PILGRIM is anything but thornless. If you want a yellow climbing rose with fewer thorns then try its parent GRAHAM THOMAS. REINE DES VIOLETTES is about as thornless as it gets for a rose. Truthfully I've never noticed any thorns on my plant. Both flowers and foliage are fragrant, which is an added bonus. The growth habit is graceful and mannerly so you won't have to worry about it growing out of bounds. Its one fault is a tendency for Chlorosis (caused by a nutrient deficiency). This cultivar is more susceptible to it than any other rose that I've grown so keep an eye out for yellowed leaves. Solutions include getting a grafted plant on Dr. Huey rootstock or amending your soil. Get your soil tested: pH should be neutral (6.5-7) with plenty of iron for the roots to feed on. Drainage should also be optimal so if you have red clay add some peat moss to fluff it up. I know this sounds like a lot but RdV is one of those roses who is worth the extra effort. A well grown plant in full bloom will stop traffic. CLOTILDE SOUPERT is a gorgeous climbing polyantha that does very well in USDA Zone 6. It has hardly any thorns and flowers are intensely fragrant. It is prone to balling and powdery mildew, which is really only ever a problem in places like California. With enough summer heat the flowers open just fine in spite of the humidity. Here is a link that might be useful: Garden Bad Guys - Chlorosis by Nanette Londeree, Consulting Rosarian

Annie, I'd like to hear about that Montreal garden too. Ann, it sounds like you are right about it being R. bruonii. It was definitely huge, and no blooms at all that day. Thanks for the info! Malmaison, I was surprised at how much I liked MAM, they had several specimens and they all looked great to me. One of the happiest looking plants in the garden, and a very shapely bush habit. Bon Silene was as big as an ornamental tree. It was a huge plant, perhaps the biggest tea rose I've ever seen. Nur Mahal was grown as a free-standing shrub. The plant was wider than tall, with an open habit and arching canes. I thought of a fountain when I looked at it. It is not a huge plant, and will fit nicely in my garden. Just guessing, I'd say maybe 4 ft tall and perhaps 5 ft wide. I was like a deer caught in the headlights will all these old roses around me, I'm afraid I didn't sample the fragrance on this one. A guy walking around alone in a giant rose garden in Texas could get beat up for looking like he's TOO interested, so I didn't go out of my way to stick my nose into too many blooms :-) In the book, 'The Organic Rose Garden', Liz Druitt raves about this rose's scent. MadGallica, thank you for the info on brunonii ... I am sure you are right. A person could have crawled up under it and been hidden from view it was so mushroom-like and massive. In the step garden area, I think the designer was going for a "knock-your-socks-off" view as you enter the garden from above. That would explain why they had so much of one variety in that area. It is definitely impressive from that vantage point. Valerie, I felt really fortunate to have seen that many old roses in one day at one garden. It says volumes for the city of Fort Worth to offer something like this free to their citizens. Randy

Since you have sandy soil, BOTH own-root and grafted-on-Dr.Huey would be fantastic, but grafted-on-Dr.Huey needs to be buried at least 4 inch. below soil-level. For CLIMBERS or LARGE-AUSTIN-SHRUB I would lean toward own-roots. For roses that are listed as small shrub in Austin Catalog, I WOULD BUY AS GRAFTED. The new Austin catalog 2020 lists which ones are large bush vs. medium vs. small size. Few wimpy ones best as GRAFTED: Boscobel, Jude the Obscure, Princess Alexandra of Kent, Eglantyne. Re-post the info. from another thread why grafted-on-Dr.Huey is not best for heavy rain. The problem with zone 5 winter: we have 7 months of zero rain in winter, then flood in spring (3" of rain per day), then dry summer months alternate with heavy rain, esp. in fall. Roses on a DEEP & LONG Dr.Huey-rootstock can't handle being soaked in acidic rain water, pH 4.5. Dr. Huey was bred in dry & alkaline CA. Now I understand why Jim in PA, zone 6 only grow own-root roses, and he researched carefully on roses that can handle heavy rain & flood. About Tamora: it's best in alkaline & fast-draining soil. Nearby zone 5 rose park with alkaline clay had Tamora (grafted-on-Dr.Huey) ... it black spotted badly in heavy rain. Plus the myrrh scent is gone during heavy rain (more than 1" per day). Tamora and Queen Nefertiti (its child) are both thorny, and my experience with thorny roses: they like FAST-DRAINING SOIL, tend to black spot in slow-drainage clay and heavy rain. In contrast, LOW-THORN roses can tolerate flooding and soaking-wet & poor drainage clay better .. such as almost thornless Twilight zone, that can take tons of rain without diseases & compact & plus a wafting scent 4 feet away. Glossy foliage like Pat Austin also can take poor-drainage and flooding .. Pat is compact in my zone 5, amazing scent of mango and nectarine. Pat is a water-hog. Munstead Wood is also compact AS OWN-ROOT with wafting scent. Dr.Huey-rootstock (A LONG & DEEP STICK) needs fast drainage and doesn't like acidic rain in slow-drainage clay. Own-roots or multiflora-rootstock are more cluster-shallow root and can take flooding & heavy rain better. Also for compactness, own-root is best. My Jude the Obscure was 2' x 1' as own-root, versus rose park's Jude-grafted-on-Dr.Huey was over 7 feet tall & same with their Abraham Darby. Below is Tamora at rose park with alkaline clay ... I won't post the pic. of its dropping all leaves due to blackspots in our heavy rain (more than 1" per day): Twilight zone as 4th-year-own-root in my zone 5 garden, next to a rain spout & only 4 hrs. of sun, always healthy. Like Bolero, I can smell the old-rose scent many feet away: Below is 10-year-own-root Pat Austin, amazing mango and nectarine scent, loves tons of rain, bloom lots in only 4 hrs. of sun: Munstead Wood is very compact, with amazing scent that floats in the air (much stronger & better scent than Bolero). With winter-kill in zone 5, the bush is more slender & compact than below pic. as 6th-year-own-root.